Dependent Records head Stefan Herwig is tired of hearing that the CD is dead, record companies are evil, and of how “cool” the file-sharing community is.
Tired of all the talk about how “dead the CD is, how evil record companies are, (and) how cool the filesharing community is,” Dependent Records head Stefan Herwig has challenged proponents of P2P to debate him face to face “… and without net or safety belt.”
Herwig wants for some of the “‘file-sharing is cool’ folks” out there to hook up with him while he’s traveling the US on a current Seabound/Iris US tour as tour manager and light Engineer, and to “…sit down in a hotel lobby, restaurant or hotel room, and discuss the ‘fors and againsts’ of file sharing” with him in person, “Face to face and without net or safety belt.”
He wants to record of all these impromptu file-sharing debates and discussions and make them available as an unedited podcast or downloadable MP3 at the end of the tour.
From the sounds of it Herwig is serious about the offer and goes so far as to ask aloud whether anyone out there has “…the guts to step up in real life and argue with someone face to face about this touchy subject?” So much for cordiality.
I must admit that I considered taking up the gauntlet myself on this one and to accept his debate, but a look at the tour schedule glaringly omits San Diego and I’m quite allergic to Los Angeles(Those who’ve seen the city from atop the Grapevine know what I’m talking about).
So hopefully someone reading this is able to take up the cause for us “file-sharing is cool” folks and debate Mr Herwig. for us. I think he’s delusional if he thinks for a second that the CD’s time isn’t all but over, and that most record companies really aren’t as evil as people make them out to be.
With music going digital and with the clunky silicon discs known as CDs more than 28 years old, how can anyone argue that the two characteristics that made them previously desirable – portability and sound – are now what make them obsolete?
As for record companies, the so-called “Big 4″ at least, it’s no secret that they’ve literally been ripping off artists for years. From basically stealing rights to the master recordings of oftentimes poor, black, artists in recorded music’s earliest days, to giving artists literally pennies on the dollar for work made on their backs for decades, music labels have aptly subjugated them to the term “content creators” as they are known as today.
Music labels have devolved the art of music to a system of consumer goods that has no interest in sound, but rather in sales. They have been allowed to be the gatekeepers for music for only one reason – distribution. Nobody has a CD or record pressing plant in their backyard and so they’ve been a necessary evil. What good are they today I ask, when the Internet gives each artist a digital music pressing plant of its own? The record labels are littler more than marketing and financing mechanisms and should be treated as such at long last and give back music its art form.
Too bad Herwig can’t meet me on my own turf.
Here’s his post in its entirety:
I am noticing a decent increase of pisstake threads on how dead the CD is, how evil record companies are, how cool the filesharing communicty is, etc.
Real arguments here are rare, but a couple of attention whores seem to find it remarkably funny to show up with nicknames like “i stole ur muzak”, etc.
Its all fun and games on a forum, but does anyone of you cool filesharing people really have some “real life” arguments to backup your evil deeds and justify filesharing?
Here is the challenge:
I will be coming along the Seabound/Iris US tour as tour manager and light Engineer. there are a hanfdfull of days off/travel days on that tour, where we will hopefully have some spare time in select locations throughout the US (Seattle, Austin, Tx., Detroit being some of them).
I do encourage some of you “filesharing is cool” folks to hook up with me on one of those days off sit down in a hotel lobby, restaurant or hotel room and discuss the “fors and againsts” of filesharing with me in persona. Face to face and without net or safety belt.
We will record this discussion with an Mp3 player or Minidisc player.
The unedited discussion can than be enjoyed by everyone at the end of the tour as a podcast or downloadable Mp3 on the Dependent website or via Sideline.
Does anyone really have the guts to step up in real life and argue with someone face to face about this touchy subject?
Quite honest: I doubt it… but would be pleasantly surprised if someone would step up to that challenge.
So, Catgirl, tape operator, I stole ur muzak, Alpha or whatever pseudonyms you guys have. How cool are you guys really?
SH
Are any of you one of the so-called “file-sharing is cool folks?” Here’s a list of the dates and places where he’ll be if anybody’s willing AND able to take up the challenge.
12.03.2008 Philadelphia Shampoo
13.03.2008 Washington DC Five
14.03.2008 New Haven Black Sun Festival
15.03.2008 NYC Avalon
16.03.2008 Rochester Water Street
18.03.2008 Cleveland/Lakewood TBC
19.03.2008 Detroit Luna
20.03.2008 Chicago Darkroom
22.03.2008 Austin Elysium
23.03.2008 Houston TBC
24.03.2008 Dallas Club Dada
26.03.2008 Seattle El Corazon
27.03.2008 Portland Mt. Tabor
29.03.2008 San Francisco DNA Lounge
30.03.2008 Los Angeles Safari Sams
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I’d rather a public debate in front of regular computer users.
I’m your huckleberry
I’d like to see a public debate too but hey this is good too. Someone step up cause I’m no debater!
hmm. im near seattle i could do this. doubt i will but its a interesting thought
file sharing is cool i stole ur musak
Does anyone really say that? I’ve never heard of anyone saying i stole ur musak. I believe I’d have to take a swing at somebody for saying that dumb shit.
Well this jackass is coming to my city so if you guys want I’ll take his challenge. I’m going to go to the forums to look for support.
I’ve had a few debates on file-sharing in my time face to face. I argue that it has given artists a unique advantage over traditional distribution methods and enabled people like myself to reach out to audiences that would otherwise not be possible.
The response for me has always been ‘yeah well that’s all well and true but your still stealing our music.’ I counter that I am simply redistributing my own music and the counterargument has generally been ‘yeah but who downloads YOUR music anyway? Everyone is stealing OUR music illegally instead.’ I counter of course that a 6 figure number has downloaded my music myself and I get a ‘that’s just anomolous and not normal. The reality is that people arn’t downloading your music.’
It’s funny how I have proof that it’s not about downloading copyrighted music in all cases yet the counterargument is to deny the solid evidence and general avoidance of my claim simply due to the fact that there really isn’t a counterargument against what I’m personally doing. Course I got a good amount of practice to keep a straight face at this point in time but on the inside I’m going ‘LOL!’.
Why don’t you email the guy and do an interview over the phone soul??? If he truely wants the opinion of file sharers I would believe he may be willing to do a phone conference for the info.
My personal defense to filesharing is that you can’t blame the consumer for your shortcomings. No one would of flocked to P2P if the old system wasn’t flawed. It proved that when control is given to the consumer many would rather not pay for music. But instead of trying to working around this reality maybe lowering prices or giving people incentive to buy music they chose to keep with the model that revolved around control. Thankfully for consumers sadly for record labels the internet isn’t easy to censor. So instead of the overpriced cd’s of the past consumers are getting the free music. One could even go so far as to defend that before recording apparatus music was a performance art and that was how individuals were compensated. There is no reason why it cannot travel back to those roots. I mean you have artist like Celine Dion and Kanye West charging over 100$ a ticket for their shows if you look at the capacity of most arenas that’s allot of money. Also considering the way computers have simplified recording and removed much of the cost associated to music production their is no reason to charge the amounts or any amount for music anymore. There have even been studies done on the limitations of music and how the craft itself is simply the inspirational use of music we have already heard. So in essence music copies music so how does protecting that make sense? Part of me wonders just how much redundancy we have in music today. Because in the end music isn’t every possible sound imaginable its restricted to a climatically structure one that has a limit.
Not to mention what is going on in the courts with the RIAA lawsuits today. It’s no longer a question on whether a screenshot or an IP address constitutes as evidence it’s more of a question of if even that is needed to convict someone. There’s only a limited number of things that could get you convicted with something in the US that doesn’t require evidence and far more serious crimes require much more than hersay for a conviction. Remember the dead woman they filed a lawsuit against a year or so ago?
What about the whole concept of shutting down a service because it could circumvent DRM? The DVD Jukebox which only up until recently was not allowed to exist without costing an arm and a leg in royalty costs? Even if you are all for stopping bootleggers in third world countries I’m sure there is recognition for some that the control to innovate should be limited at worst. Right now that control is obsene and unecessary.
What about the Sony Rootkit fiasco? The actual whistleblower was technically breaking the anti-circumvention laws just to point out that the DRM would destabilize your computer and open yourself wide to hackers.
…just to name three more…
I am challenge him to a private streetfight in the ally of his choice. If anyone debates this asshole remember to print out the pie chart showing that artists only get between 1 and 2 bucks for each cd sold. It’s true though as has been pointed out by DrewWilson. It doesn’t really matter what your argument is he will only say “no that’s not true”.
@mountain_rage
Good idea..
I’d sooner debate someone from the Flat Earth Society.
This is a joke! This guy thinks he is going to “challenge” someone to debate in person at HIS convenience?
Give me a break! Some of us actually have REAL JOBS where we have to go to work not act like a teenager and roam all over the country because we’re too immature to grow up and get an actual career.
This is bullshit. If the guy wants a debate then do it on neutral grounds not a convenient location for him.
lol! @ #13
Edit: Another point: the lawsuit campaign. Why has it shifted suddenly to college students once people fought back? Is this an admission that these lawsuits are frivolous and that they want an unfair advantage? Why legally pursue people who can’t defend themselves on the financial front if they think that their lawsuits are just? If they have nothing to fear go after the more wealthier people who can defend themselves so they can set a precedent as opposed to forcing the less fortunate to settle out of court.