The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.
The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren’t suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.
“It’s the largest database ever assembled in the world,” said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA’s activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency’s goal is “to create a database of every call ever made” within the nation’s borders, this person added.
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There hunting for terrorist its completely okay. No one is gonna know about you other then what was said if your being a law biding citizen then you have nothing to fear if your not. They will knock down your door.
Oh dear god shawners i sincerely hope you do not believe that that is possibly the stupidest thing i have ever heard.
+1! Shawners you need to get a reality check! I live in the US but I don’t believe my government is only looking for terrorists when it comes to this! Too much room for abuse and I think the court cases over this are comming! Watch and see. Believing what the US Government says about only terrorists having to worry about wiretapping phone conversations is about as stupid as putting your trust in Sony! Would you trust Sony now that you know about what they have done with rootkits?
Well if you ARE a law-abiding citizen you have nothing to fear. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. They’re just protecting you. So when they ultimately come to install that camera in your bathroom you have nothing to fear. You ARE a law-abiding citizen aren’t you? You DON’T have anything to hide do you?
So what if they even start listening in on the average americans phone line. If you are innocent you’ll be fine. So they may find out your grandma’s top secret apple pie recipe or that your son or daughter has been a little naughty at school. Big deal. I agree with Shawners as long as you have nothing to hide you’re fine. For the rest of you best get on your tin foil hats and tuck your heads between your legs and pray.
Yes. You’ve heard George Bush haven’t you…he said something like ” you can trust us to do the right thing.” I mean…If you want to capture the terrorists then you should be willing to give up some of your constitutional rights.
_____________________—
Sarcasm aside…who wants to be a Law-abiding citizen when laws were bought and paid for by corrupt corporations or corrupt power-hungry government officials. LOL! Raise your hand soccer moms!
Ok whoever thinks carte blanche phone taps are OK needs their head examined; consider the possibilities:
Suppose you and others wish to demonstrate against the government about an issue (doesn’t matter which) and you decide to demonstrate at the place the president is going to visit for whatever reason in a peaceful law abiding manner. Your protest is perfectly legal however it could be very embarrassing for the president as other world leaders and the media are going to be there unfortunately you organized the protest rally on the phone your phone calls were recorded and the NSA now know exactly about your legal protest. where when and how.
Do you trust the NSA not to tell the presidents people about this would you be 100 percent confident they would not use this knowledge to stop your legal protest or restrict you access along the route? are you absolutely certain they after hearing your phone conversation they would think ‘hmm well its not a terrorist threat lets ignore it’.
How about if you were suing the government over an issue (doesn’t matter what) and you and your lawyer discussed the case over the phone; your strategy the evidence e.t.c.
Now would you be confident that if the NSA had heard your phone conversations they would not give a copy o the calls to the government’s lawyers giving them a massive advantage in defeating your case.
These are just simple examples; it only takes a moments thought to think of the possible ramifications for freedom & democracy.
I get tired of the pussies who say “if you’re not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about”. Take your ass to China. China works on the same policy. If you don’t step out of line your life will be peaceful. You don’t here about terrorists attacks there. 100% safety. No worries. It makes me laugh when I hear american on one hand say “the US is great because of freedom” then on the other hand say “let’s give the government even more power to monitor or restrict freedom” Thats some schizophrenic shit for you.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/11/nsa.phonerecords/index.html
Yeh…this is BULLSHIT. They basically are saying that they are monitoring all Americans but you can trust them not to evesdrop. Are they fucking NUTS?
They are saying ” we have to power to listen to everything you are saying we have it in storeage but you can trust us not to listen to anyone but the terrorists.”
Bull fucking shit! Maybe the sheep of America will buy that but I don’t.
In reality there is no government you can trust remember the old saying absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Start using skype more to talk about all things naughty
i say dirty things on the phone
from what i understand there is no recording being done. its just a list of this number called this number at this time. simple and unincriminating of anything any of us may be doing. what it allows them to do is look for really odd patterns like some one making a 30sec call to a pay phone only to be called right back by the pay phone. i just dont see how that is problem or a bad thing at all for us. it will catch more terrorists than it can violate our rights. i have to be a dumbass on this one and agree with shawners. ill take it back when i find this is A) a missunderstanding on my part or B) a gateway measure to more drastic and invasive measures.
Singa- It can (and will) lead to more drastic measures. This is just testing the water to see how sheeply we are if we let them getaway with this then they will start loging phone conversations e-mails etc. and using political mussle to throw anyone who disagrees with the government in jail (just like China).
Here’s an old saying:
If you place a frog in a pot of boiling water it will jump out and live however if you place a frog in a pot in warm water and gradualy turn up the heat the frog will sit there until it boils to death.
I hope I don’t have to explain the analogy.
LOL morons like there is any possible way for anyone to sit there and listen to and monitor every phone call ever made in the United States every minute there are probably millions of hours of phone calls. Good luck…There are about 300 million people in the US 1/50 (probably very underestimated) are on the phone at any given minute and a minute is 1/60th of an hour. That would be 1 million hours every minute that’s more than 114 years for someone to sit there and listen to all of those boring phone calls. That means that if they tried to record all of the calls made in the US over even the period of 3 days you’re talking well a long time. As big of a tax waster our government is I dont think they would waste that kind of time just to be able to accuse people of communist conspiracies that’s so 1956.
@Theinfamousone and others that believe the US government is doing nothing WRONG…….don’t you realize that THIS is not the END of wiretapping in the US? It is THE BEGINNING…. if you have never read the book 1984 then I would advise you all to go read it!
Mabye then you will realize that things like only recording phone numbers for patterns may start out small but become very large problems in the end! What is to stop them from expanding this program to include eavesdropping on whoever they please?……and all in the name of “national security”?
If some of you sheep want to believe that this is OK then that is your problem but 1956 is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! Remember when the Government in the US thought everyone could be a potential “communist” in 1956? Well here we are in 2006 and not much has changed….but instead of everyone being a potential “communist” they now become a potential “terrorist”…and along with it they bring in all of the old ways of “keeping tabs” on amereicans! Mabye some of you don’t remember J. Edgar Hoovers SECRET RECORDS that he kept of THOUSANDS of innocent americans including Martin Luther King Jr. in case they turned out to be “communists” These were not discovered unitl years later AFTER his death. Think about that before you start spouting off at the mouth that there is nothing to worry about!
Gamer8585….YOU are the moron. Do you NOT realize that the government has the AUTHORITY to listen to your phone conversations and see your phone records without any court order.
It’s not the fact that they ARE listening to all of them but they can if they chose to for whatever reason they chose to. NO PRIVACY! Moron…lol.
http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/070878-0.html?tw=wn_index_12
THIS IS WHY I HATE THE USA
Ne007 are you jokeing? The last lol would seem to indicate it but its still hard to tell from the text.
Anyway it’s illigel for the government to conduct a search (including wiretaping) without a court order. Its the 4th admendment to the constitution so if anyone in government violates there is grounds for an inditement. Now the whole thing about just collecting numbers is not illigal in itself because not intrusive search was ever done but it dose set a very bad presedent.
That’s turning the stove up 2 degrees.
http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=427656#post427656
This of course comes from an administration which considers the U.S. Constitution as nothing more than “a fucking piece of paper”.
Time to refresh that tree of liberty….
!
I see alot of you giving a pretty lax attitude towards this with a casual frame of mind of
“if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about”
It’s dense talk and attitudes like that that enable vile people like G.W to exscuse thier actions and set up Reigimes.
Welcome to Bush’s America The America of the extreme right.
You think it ends here? Do you think a government who flouts constitutional rights and seriously believes in the name of safety you should be willing to give up your freedom as protected by the constitution would draw that line between acceptable or not acceptable? You who think this is nothing have some serious reality checks coming.
This is the beggining of our education on how Uncle Sam keeps house and don’t think it stops here…the fact they decided they could go as far as they did shows that there is no limit. So all of you smug in your confidence thinking (I have nothing to hide) need to open your minds. control starts by changing the small things and pointing at the minority target Slowly as you accept these things and make them a part of life you become tangled too.
This monitoring has nothing to do with terrorists…there are not 10’s of millions of them in the US.
The monitoring is about control it is about monitoring your citizens and maintaining the status quo.
While we are busy eating ads on what we need next and what we have to buy to make our lives complete
we stop paying attention to what goes on around us but hey I got a new Ipod right? The greatest subterfuge
is to convince the masses there is no problem and distract them with something that will keep their attentions elsewhere welcome to the capitalist system.
How long before a phone call with a neighbour who might have connections to a dubious group means your ass is going to be watched?
How long?
Whats funny about america is it is stuck in this perception that they could never live in a dicatorship the loss of personal rights is watched for and protected against because of the constitution. The ideas in the US constitution were written by men they can be changed by men they can be erased by men. Don’t think for one second that the american public would actually get a say if somsone with enough military support decided to toss it all into the wind. Don’t think there will never be a general who would be willing to do something no other peer of his accomplished.
A military Coup d’état on american soil
Paper can decompose and writing can be altered rights are not automatically granted they are given and they can be taken away. Your casusal Disregard for your own rights and freedoms shows you how much you really take it for granted and how spoiled we are in the west and what blows me away is we as a civilization truly think our shit does not stink.
Well wake up now children because look around you Administrative Civilian posts are for the first time being filled with Soldiers and Officers and for the first time we have an Attorney General who defends undefendable rubbish like the patriot act cuban internment camps national wiretapping and call monitoring.
You better wake up because one of the architects and the main administrator of these programs is nominated to head the CIA.
America is in a sickness and has been for a long time but nobody can see it there and even worse America let it happen to itself
How many people live in America now?? How many make phone calls? How many stupid conversations take place a day? You think that you told someone your going to the store that someone actually is listening. THey may have it recorded but do they have the man power to go through every phone call hours on end? Or wouldnt the logs keep getting bigger and bigger and people disconnect their phone move get new service on a day to day basis. You all need a reality check. They have key phrases that may send a message to the top of list of to investigate but shit. Are you assholes planning on something? Is that why you think your ass is being violated? maybe they need to knock down your door. Do you think the people listening reside in your state or county even? WIll they see you on a day to day basis or make rumors about your family or say something there not suppose to say? GET REAL.
Anyone who knows about supply and demand knows that if wiretapping becomes too much of a nuissance phone line encryption will become comon place. Sure it would bring up a redflag to a central computer if all they are picking up is scambled mess but they couldnt pin anything on you if its encrypted. Then if it catches on enough there will be more encrypted phones then ones that arnt and the govenment will be worse off then they are now because even a regular wiretap against known criminals will be impossible. In a sense they are digging their own grave.
Shawners YOU GET REAL! Mabye you have your head in the sand about things but don’t think for a second that I or others do! Or even SHOULD! If you want to go on believing that the US Government has it’s own peoples best intrests at heart then go ahead. But I my self am making what stand that I can as a US citizen against this!
My dad and uncles did not fight in WW2 for an America that is turning out to be a DICTATORSHIP and the head of that dictatorship is Bush! But don’t worry I think once all this is discussed there WILL be a change in congress the next elections! Of course one side is about as bad as the other so will things change? Probably very little. But that doesn’t mean I am gonna stick my head in the sand and act like my freedoms are not being taken away! Go ahead and play stupid but that is why Bush has gotten so much power…..because of people like you!!
During the cold war the people in Russia when it was the Union of the Soviet Socialist Republics did not have any say in their government and what it did therfore they were not the ones responsible with the policies of that time. (They Soviets DID however know that their government watched everything the people did and made a way around it like creating a black market and only discussing things in public that were pro-government) But we in America CAN have a say in what is going on but if people like you stick their heads in the sand then this is the result!
You act like you believe just like J Edgar Hoover did back in the 50s….and that belief is that because you may have SOME people in the country that may want to hurt it you think it is OK to take away the rights or freedonms of EVERYONE LIVING IN AMERICA so that you can protect it! Sorry not in my book! That is not living in freedom…. that is living under a balnket of censorship….except this time it is not “communists” they are worried about…it is “terrorists”! But the results are the same peoples rights are being taken away and that is UNACCEPTABLE!
Saying that “if you are innocent you have nothing to worry about” is about as STUPID as what the communist Governments tell to some of their people…IF YOU ARE INNOCENT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT! But try to tell THAT to whole families that were jailed because SOMEONE thought they may have done or said something against the Government and turbned them in! And a LOT of those people were actually INNOCENT! Now… YOU want to call THAT freedom?
The same is true with this administration trying to take away our fredoms all in the name of “national security”! There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASION to record all the numbers of tens of millions of americans when it is estimated that there are only about 40000 terrorists in the WORLD! (And that number is far fewer when you only talk about those in america!) But let me ask you something SHAWNERS if you think that Bush is so “concerned with “national security”…they why is he SO AGAINST stopping illegal immigrants from crossing the mexican border? Even though some US agents have smuggled TWO FAKE “dirty bombs” across the border to see if it could be done?
Frankly I think Bush is out for his own agenda and to hell with what the american people think! The stupid things he has done over and over again PROVE that!
Let me just close my argument with this statement with what Ben Franklin said about sacrificing liberity for security…
Poor Richard’s Almanack of 1738: “Sell not virtue to purchase wealth nor Liberty to purchase power.”
Maybe those of you who have no problem with the government violating the principles of this country should be thrown in Guantanamo Bay. It may be extreme but no more extreme than your advocation for the dismissal of the bill of rights. I view you as being more dangerous than a terrorist. A terrorist may kill but you in your weakness actually destroy the country.
Not too long ago they told us this was just focused on people who place calls overseas. Now we find out it goes furthur. Your explanation of what is taking place may be on point but who are you to know if the government hasn’t gone furthur. Honestly I have no trust in you people. By the time people like you finally get outraged we’d be under a full-fleged dictatorship.
Sorry to Gamer…it was theinfamousone who I was referring to….i was confused by the way this page is setup.
I have a way to solve this whole mess.
The governmet stops secret wire taps and complies with the law and in exchange all of us Civilians will be duty bound to kick a Terrorist in the Testicals if we ever see one. I call it the “T’nT act” They will respect our Athori-tah!
i second gamers notion
That’s excellent! By kicking terrorists in the testicles we can kill 2 birds with one stone…first: change the voice of the terrorists and second: make sure they don’t have any terroristlets.
EDIT: verizon is being sued for this
I knew what you meant Ne007 but honestly. I think that even if the government started to accuse people of terrorism it would take about 2 days for the people to start flipping out if they felt the government was being unjust and quite honestly we can give the government a little bit of credit I think. They dont just randomly come after people I don’t care what you’ve seen in movies. Can’t we just believe them that they are trying to keep track of the phone calls to try to opitmize our communication network?
You mean….can’t we just BELIEVE an administration that got the U.S. into a warwith a country that THEY CLAIMED had weapons of mass destruction and THEN it turned out they DIDN’T ?
Can we BELIEVE an administration that is rife with corruption and has had some of it’s own party members land in JAIL?
Can’t we BELIEVE in an administration that is so inept they could not even get it together when faced with a disaster like hurricane katrina?
These are only a FEW examples I have given of their inability to lead…….And now YOU think we should trust them on this? Well here’s your answer…HELL NO!!
idiots
http://news.com.com/Verizon+sued+for+sharing+info+with+NSA/2100-1036_3-6072483.html?tag=st_lh
It is against the constitution to do what they are doing:
“Federal law prohibits the phone companies from giving records to the government without a warrant” said Afran who is an attorney in private practice and also a professor of law at Rutgers University. “There was no warrant nor was there any attempt to get warrants which is in violation of the constitution and the Telecommunications Act.”
It is a sad day with the Department of JUSTICE makes a motion to DISMISS THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES! PERIOD!