"Death panel" aspect of health care bill

Discussion in 'File Sharing' started by MoonMan, Aug 13, 2009.

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  1. MoonMan

    MoonMan Member Established Member

    Just posting this informative article, which rebukes Sarah Palin's freshly reinstated claim that there would be so-called "death panels" of federal bureaucrats who would choose to end care on certain stages of particularly bad or terminal health problems.


    FACT CHECK: No 'death panel' in health care bill

    By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writer Ricardo Alonso-zaldivar, Associated Press Writer – Tue Aug 11, 3:04 am ET

    WASHINGTON – Former Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin says the health care overhaul bill would set up a "death panel." Federal bureaucrats would play God, ruling on whether ailing seniors are worth enough to society to deserve life-sustaining medical care. Palin and other critics are wrong.

    Nothing in the legislation would carry out such a bleak vision. The provision that has caused the uproar would instead authorize Medicare to pay doctors for counseling patients about end-of-life care, if the patient wishes. Here are some questions and answers on the controversy:

    Q: Does the health care legislation bill promote "mercy killing," or euthanasia?

    A: No.

    Q: Then what's all the fuss about?

    A: A provision in the House bill written by Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., would allow Medicare to pay doctors for voluntary counseling sessions that address end-of-life issues. The conversations between doctor and patient would include living wills, making a close relative or a trusted friend your health care proxy, learning about hospice as an option for the terminally ill, and information about pain medications for people suffering chronic discomfort.

    The sessions would be covered every five years, more frequently if someone is gravely ill.

    Q: Is anything required?

    Monsignor Charles Fahey, 76, a Catholic priest who is chairman of the board of the National Council on Aging, a nonprofit service and advocacy group, says no.

    "We have to make decisions that are deliberative about our health care at every moment," Fahey said. "What I have said is that if I cannot say another prayer, if I cannot give or get another hug, and if I cannot have another martini — then let me go."

    Q: Does the bill advocate assisted suicide?

    A: No. It would block funds for counseling that presents suicide or assisted suicide as an option.

    Q: Who supports the provision?

    A: The American Medical Association, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization and Consumers Union are among the groups supporting the provision. AARP, the seniors' lobby, is taking out print advertisements this week that label as false the claim that the legislation will empower the government to take over life-and-death decisions from individuals.

    Q: Should the federal government be getting involved with living wills and end-of-life questions — decisions that are highly personal and really difficult?

    A: It already is.

    The government requires hospitals to ask adult patients if they have a living will, or "advance directive." If the patient doesn't have one, and wants one, the hospital has to provide assistance. The mandate on hospitals was instituted during a Republican administration, in 1992, under President George H.W. Bush.

    Q: How does a living will work, and how is it different from a health care proxy?

    A: A living will — also called an advance directive — spells out a patient's wishes if he or she becomes incapacitated. Often people say they don't want to be kept alive on breathing machines if their condition is terminal and irreversible.

    A health care proxy empowers another person to make medical decisions should the patient become incapacitated.

    There's also a power-of-attorney, which authorizes another person to make financial decisions for someone who is incapacitated.

    Such legal documents have become standard estate-planning tools in the last twenty years.

    Q: Would the health overhaul legislation change the way people now deal with making end-of-life decisions?

    A: It very well could.

    Supporters of the provision say the main consequence would be to formally bring doctors into a discussion that now takes place mainly among family members and lawyers.

    "When you execute a legal document with your lawyer, it ends up in your files and in the lawyer's files," said John Rother, a senior policy and strategy adviser for AARP. "Unless the doctor is part of this discussion, it's unlikely that your wishes will be respected. The doctor will be the one involved in any decisions."

    The American Medical Association says involving doctors is simple common sense.

    "There has been a lot of misinformation about the advance care planning provisions in the bill," AMA President Dr. James Rohack said in a statement. "It's plain, old-fashioned medical care."

    Q: So why are some people upset?

    Some social conservatives say stronger language is needed to protect seniors from being pressured into signing away their rights to medical treatment in a moment of depression or despair.

    The National Right to Life Committee opposes the provision as written.

    "I'm not aware of 'death panels' in the bill," said David O'Steen, executive director of the group. "I'm not aware of anything that says you will be hauled before a government bureaucrat. But we are concerned ... it doesn't take a lot to push a vulnerable person — perhaps unwittingly — to give up their right to life-sustaining treatment."

    The White House says it is countering false claims with a "reality check" page on its Web site, http://www.whitehouse.gov.
  2. YWD67

    YWD67 YOUR WATCH DOG 67 Established Member

    Well don't forget about the laughable piece by the Invester Daily.
    In one of their articles this week they were slamming the British health care system.
    The article went on to say that if Steven Hawkings was cared for by that system he would likely not be alive today in the US.

    The idiot paper did not know that Hawkings is a British born and a citizen of Great Britian. His health care has been all through the British health care system.
    Hawkings even made a public comment stating that he is alive and functioning today because of the system.

    I guess the writer of the article did not know that Hawkings is British because his artficial electronic voice doesn't have a British accent.
  3. Drew Wilson

    Drew Wilson AKA IceCube Staff Member Moderator Contributor

    I think for a lot of Canadians watching this, they are really confused over what the fuss is about. I'm no expert, but the difference between the Obama plan and the Canadian system is that the government would just act as another insurance company. In Canada, everyone gets some coverage (and yes, we have health insurance companies up here too)

    I remember seeing the claim that the government wants to choose a doctor for you. Again, not an expert, but in Canada, that's unheard of.

    There's borderline riots down there and some of us Canadians (well, me at the very least) are really puzzled by all of this.
  4. El Comandante

    El Comandante Merde! Established Member

    It's all contrived controversy. It has nothing to do with health care. It has everything to do with destroying the Obama administration and shutting down the message/debate. Notice that Republicans are not having town hall meetings to discuss health care.They could care less.

    The latest right wing counter plan to reduce health care costs was to cut off all illegal aliens from receiving health care and stop all medical malpractice suits. Simple solutions for simple minds.
  5. mfgbypooter

    mfgbypooter Super Pooper Staff Member Moderator

    Not true. There were Republican town hall meetings held as recently as wednesday and yesterday in Kansas with more scheduled.

  6. norm1515

    norm1515 Member


    Kenyan citizen Barrack Osama organizes death panels to force abortions on white virgins stuck in wells in plot to build secret Muslim pyramid!

    9/11 was an inside job!
  7. Mels_Smileys45

    Mels_Smileys45 JabberZombie Established Member

    If 9/11 was an inside job lets turn health care over to the government right now because they demonstrated how well they could organize a plot and keep it very very secret as well. An amazing feat by any measure! Such a massive and detailed plot organized and pulled off by Bush? He must be extremely proud of himself because those attacks did so much for the country and government! I don't know what Bush would have done as President without 9/11.:hail:
  8. mfgbypooter

    mfgbypooter Super Pooper Staff Member Moderator


    Ever the showoff, Bush was a master at slight of hand.

    He demonstrated that he couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time and yet he pulled off 9/11.

    Then his next greatest feat was acting ignorant while creating Hurricane Katrina.

  9. El Comandante

    El Comandante Merde! Established Member

    Nothing more that "re-branding" efforts by the GOP meant to revive the image of the Republican Party and to counter President Obama's characterization of Republicans as "the party of 'no.'"

    huh? What about health care?

  10. mfgbypooter

    mfgbypooter Super Pooper Staff Member Moderator

    Republican town hall meetings are not as boisterous as their counterparts because those in attendence feel their congressmen are representing them, and where are the supporters of the bill, why aren't they there to shout at the party of "no"?

    And even without the repugniclans, the fact still remains that there are enough demorats saying "no" and is why the bill can not pass as it currently stands.

  11. Mels_Smileys45

    Mels_Smileys45 JabberZombie Established Member

    This brings up something I have been thinking about for awhile. I wonder to what degree Katrina was or was not responsible for the economic crash. I think history will look back at a "perfect storm". The 9/11 attacks, the resulting ( very expensive ) Middle East war plus the already over burdened military spending, Hurricane Katrina, the many floods and other home land regional disasters that I can't recall right now all on top of the out of control credit card spending and the Wall Street gamblers. Its a damn miracle that this nation is still standing. What is holding us up as a nation is a mystery... or is it? I guess when we can print up our own currency and act like its worth something we can go on living like this forever! Free ride people! Get on board!
  12. El Comandante

    El Comandante Merde! Established Member

    The short answer is that these town hall meetings are not at all representative of people's views on the issues. The majority of people choose to stay home or go to these meetings to listen. These "angry" people make the news because the scream, shout, cajole and otherwise act like animals. They don't want a dialogue. They want a soapbox. It's political Sally Jesse Raphael. It's the culture of the "base" of the Republican Party.

    I think there is actually more than one bill. Nevertheless, I agree that the Administration has not sold this properly (that's beginning to change). Unfortunately the issues are complex.

    The numbers tell the story (sort of). . .


    You can shout it from the rooftops: only 33% of Republicans agree major reform is necessary.

    Everyone is confused (except the Republicans) and the special interest disinformation campaign does not help. The majority of Americans want reform but they are not sure of what reform they want. They are not enthusiastic about administration proposals and they don't know why. Best of all, the astroturf crowd doesn't even know why they scream and shout. You should see the interviews with these morons: socialism! Obamacare! Illegals! Death Panels... bla bla... It's absolutely shameful.
  13. mfgbypooter

    mfgbypooter Super Pooper Staff Member Moderator

    One minor thing missing on your list, the multiyear skyrocketing price of oil arising from an out of control speculator's market.

    When people had to choose between gasoline or food no wonder lots of people in their SUV's are now hungry for a job.

  14. norm1515

    norm1515 Member

    Rack I only typed in all caps as part of the joke. I was imitating the way a nutcase would type.
  15. wrongful1212

    wrongful1212 Member

    no matter what you and what happen discuss here I like your avatar mr pooter

  16. El Comandante

    El Comandante Merde! Established Member

    I thought this breakdown of the Five Opponents of Health Care Reform was kinda interesting.

    * The Greedy: There's a fairly small group of people who profit handsomely from the broken status quo. Regular Americans are getting screwed by the system, but The Greedy are getting rich. Reform puts their profits at risk, so they're fighting back to protect their livelihood.

    * The Partisans: If President Obama does what many presidents have failed trying to do, it will likely make him more popular and make his presidency successful. The Partisans care more about Republican gains than the national well being, so they're fighting to prevent a major Democratic victory because it would be a major Democratic victory. For an example, consider Bill Kristol's infamous admonition to Republican leaders.

    * The Tin-Foil Hats: If reform passes, the government will kill their grandparents, create "death panels," lavish benefits on illegal immigrants, and mandate that ACORN volunteers live in their basement. The Tin-Foil Hats have active imaginations, and believe their own ridiculous conspiracy theories. They're likely to benefit from reform, but the voices in their head discourage them from believing it.

    * The Dupes: Probably the largest group in opposition to reform, The Dupes tend to believe what The Greedy, The Partisans, and The Tin-Foil Hats have told them. When confronted with accurate information, The Dupes suspect the media, Democrats, and their lying eyes aren't to be trusted. After all, Sean Hannity wouldn't lie to them, would he? Like The Tin-Foil Hats, The Dupes stand to benefit from reform, but are skeptical because they don't know who's telling the truth and who isn't.

    * The Wonks: The smallest of the groups, The Wonks are conservatives who actually care about substantive policy details, have read the proposals, and believe there are better ways to improve the system. They're looking for a meaningful policy debate, and are slightly embarrassed by their allies' dishonest temper tantrums, but The Greedy, The Partisans, The Tin-Foil Hats, and The Dupes have decided to ignore The Wonks. They don't scream at town-hall meetings and they don't show up for 9/12 strategy sessions.

  17. Drew Wilson

    Drew Wilson AKA IceCube Staff Member Moderator Contributor

  18. YWD67

    YWD67 YOUR WATCH DOG 67 Established Member

    How soon they forget!!!
    Remember the average Joe Citizen and politicians who voiced opposition to Bush's invasion and war in Iraq?
    They were called unAmerican, treatorist, obstructionist and condemed by every talking head the righties had.

    Now those who oppose any plan from the current admin are labeled as informed, patriots who are reclaiming America by those same talking heads.
    No constructive, workable, alternative plans are put forth by any of them.

    If any of those who opposed the war were to speak out at a town hall meeting the way that is being done today, they would have been threatened and physically removed.

    And god only knows what would have happened if someone had carried a firearm to the location of a Bush town hall meeting.
    Does the fucking word hypocritical come to mind.

    The health industry is pumping millions and millions of dollars into fighting any kind of change.
    If they win dupes, how are they going to recover the expense of the fight?

    They will raise your premiums and deductable and you will bitch and moan, even though it will be your own damn fault.
    Before any dupepper rants that it won't happen, guess again.
    It happened before during the Clinton admin when it tried to fix the health care system and the health care industry dumped tons of money into fighting it.
  19. Mels_Smileys45

    Mels_Smileys45 JabberZombie Established Member

    I FUCKIN RULE!!! Sut up and don't you forget it! DOCUHERS!

    There is a LARGE group of people ( douchers) who are well organized who only are making a HUGE fuss over this because its happening during the Obama Presidency. Everything and anything that comes along while Obama is in office will be made into a fiasco for one reason and one reason only. They want Obama to look like a failure and they want him to fail to help Americans for their own gains. What are their own gains you may ask. Well, somehow and for some reason this group of morons think that when they have a Republican in office that their "kind" rule America. People with a functioning brain know this is true and that there in no doubt about it. These people are only trying to throw a monkey wrench into the works.

    What is unforgivable is that these douche bags, sorry to insult douche bags by relating douche bags to these idiots, are playing games with people lives and are willing to ruin America to get their petty way.

    I am in no way saying a fully support this Health care issue. I do not know enough about it all to say its great or awful and I am fairly sure almost all of the douche bags who are raising Hell over it know LESS than I do. Get a life douche bags! The real working class heroes are tired of the cry baby antics of all of you. The more these kids pull silly stunts, the more they enforce the negative stereotypes that the smart folks have of the douchers. They make the Obama crowd stronger with each bullshittin' maneuver and I think the "minorities" will be able to keep him in office for 8 years no matter how hard the douchers try and destroy America. Right now I give Obama a C+ as a President but he gets a A for effort. He is trying hard and he wants to do too much too fast. I wish he would have held off on pushing for this health care bill and stuck to reorganizing wasteful government. IMO, this whole brouhaha is smoke and mirrors.... designed to stop people from thinking hard about the former failing economy. Perhaps the DOCHERS fell for Obama's plan after all. He NEEDED them to raise a fuss over health care to further dilute the focus on bigger problems. Do you DOUCHERS feel that large member in your buttocks? Enjoy IDIOTS! HAHAHAHA! Obama stuck his SCHLONG all up in your butts and you never saw it coming!!! I BET you felt it coming though! HAWHAWHAWHAW!!!!!

    Oh that felt goooddddd! :spankme:

    I LOVE IT! Take the BLUE PILL! It may help the pain for your assholes! :nutkick::eek:p:
  20. Signa

    Signa COCK ROCKET!!! Established Member

    Yeah, I'm enjoying that blue pill too. I'll peek at a few posts every now and then, but I hope the majority of the members here will take the pill so no one will have to listen to him. Saves the effort of banning him on the grounds of having a different opinion than the rest of us, while still never having to really deal with him. It's just sad that 90%+ of his posts are on the topic that they are. Should he choose a different topic or to just plainly stay off that topic, no on will want to hear him any more at all. He cried wolf on himself.

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