GAIM-Integrated Filesharing

[ABC_thellookoflove]

GAIM-Integrated Filesharing

Jail for filesharers is ridiculous. We need to stop it.
The lawsuits aren't enough. The major record labels are literally trying to send people to prison for sharing music, and a new bill in Congress right now would let them. We can't let that happen-- it is a completely, utterly, unacceptable political tactic. We've written a detailed write-up for a simple, new approach to filesharing that could make the major labels' tactics useless. It would let you search, browse, and share files with your friends in your IM program. It would be simple, natural, and completely secure from outside snooping.
The Future of Filesharing
And secure, private filesharing isn't just important for keeping kids out of jail, it's also key to the future of filesharing. The most exciting uses of peer-to-peer technology are still in many ways on the horizon. Content created by individuals, shared by individuals will finally have it's day when the distribution network is perfected. But filesharing, which is the key to making this possible, is being intentionally tainted by the RIAA. Blocking their efforts to destroy the technology is key to taking it to the next level.

Share with friends of friends
Your friends aren't the RIAA. Their friends aren't the RIAA. But just sharing in this small circle you're sharing with hundreds of people. With this software there would be no need to worry about security, so everyone could share their entire library.

Downloads are direct, fast
Anonymous networks like MUTE or Freenet work by passing files around from user to user. The problem is, this gets really slow. But when you're sharing with people you trust, all downloads can happen directly.

Invite friends right from your buddy list
If trusted filesharing isn't integrated with IM, it's just not going to work. Who wants to have to manually exchange IP addresses or encryption keys? Our plan builds trusted filesharing into the ad-free chat client GAIM. That way-- whether you use AIM, MSN, Yahoo, or Jabber--when you start up the first time, all your buddies are right there, and you can invite them into the network.

Secure filesharing for everyone
Making a program that only geeks can use won't cut it. The goal, after all, is to keep people out of jail. What's great about integrating filesharing into an IM client is that the interface will be familiar and non-threatening to everyone. And the interface itself explains the security advantages of the program in simple terms: you share with friends.

Details of the Proposed Software

We propose an extension to the GAIM chat client that lets users do gnutella-style search & download filesharing, where search requests propagate out to trusted buddies, buddies of buddies, etc. This approach has serveral advantages. First, people will be more altruistic sharing with friends and won't be as worried about RIAA/MPAA lawsuits. At the same time, because they can share with friends-of-friends, and friends-of-friends-of-friends, they'll often be searching a very huge library. This software will be just as simple as an IM client, and it will be easy for people to invite friends (so it spreads virally). No other piece of filesharing software is this well positioned to become hugely popular with the average, not-so-knowledgeable, Windows user. As a bonus, it will convert many users to using the open-source and ad-free client GAIM--a good thing in itself. The immediate goal is creating a working version that is extremely simple but very modular and easy to modify or expand upon.

What's so great about IM-integrated, trusted p2p
Trusted p2p is a relatively new thing. Up until now, filesharing has happened on massive open networks, on small darknets where everyone shares with everyone, or on slow, freenet-style networks where files themselves must pass through several users. Trusted p2p is different from all of these: you only share with your friends and friends of your friends, and downloads happen directly between the person who has the file and the person who wants it (so it's fast). This way you share with large, overlapping webs of people, all of whom you have a reason to trust. IM integration is the key to making all the friend-management easy for the user, and to making sure the software gets popular.

Here are some of the many advantages that come out of this project:

Social component makes it much popular, efficient

1. People are more altruistic sharing with friends
2. People more comfortable sharing with friends
3. People leave their IM clients on all the time, and they would leave this on all the time too
4. Spreads virally, because it's very easy to invite buddies --THIS IS HUGE
5. Friends often have similar taste (searches more efficient)
6. Browsing friends' collections of files is more interesting

It's secure
People only share with friends. The software urges people to only share with friends they've met face to face. Obviously, some people might not do this, and it might be possible for enforcers to insinuate their way in. But individuals who care about security can get their friends to care about security too. The system ends up being much more secure as a result.



It's good for F/OSS software

1. Everyone should already be using GAIM
2. This will get a lot more people using GAIM (the "network effect" from this critical mass is important for features like file transfer and voice conference where there isn't interoperability with proprietary clients).
3. The more people use apps that also work on the linux platform, the more comfy they are switching to linux.

The Goal for 1.0
The goal is simple. We need a version that

1. works for simple, search and download filesharing
2. capitalizes on the familiarity of the IM interface
3. is easy to set up
4. encourages practices that lead to security
5. virally builds its user base
6. is a strong enough foundation to add advanced features and to support the rapid development necessary to adapt to changing conditions.

Simple, search and download filesharing
The feature set just needs to compare to the average filesharing client.

Features:

1. search & download
2. download works when one user is firewalled
3. download all files contained in folder (like in Soulseek, a good social tool to encourage full-album sharing)
4. user browse (you can browse files on a tree'd list of buddies)

Probably the best way to do this is for all buddies to determine their own IP addresses and then send them to each other, and handle all the searching outside of the IM network.

Familiar Interface

The IM interface is super-familiar to tons of people. The simpler we can make this, the less intimidating the program will be.

* easy one-time setup (see below)
* there's a simple button that says "search friends' files" or "search"
* opens up a tab just like when you talk to a new user.
* text-entry field becomes "search" field, chat window becomes list of search results
* click to download
* transfers tab opens by default. when closed, a button appears to show it again.
* right clicking on a user gives the option "share files with user" if they are known to be using the client, and "invite" if they are not.

As you can see, we've added filesharing functionality without increasing the complexity of the interface.

Easy set up

* first time user clicks "search" button.
1. window explains how the software works (share with friends)
2. software creates group of buddies.
3. shows list of buddies and user can decide who to invite
4. user can easily invite buddies to group during normal operation (right click on buddy lists "invite" option)
o buddy gets sent a link to download the program
o invitee instantly gets joined to users' buddy list once they sign on, and vice versa.
5. user picks folders to share.

Security

The software urges people to not invite buddies that they did not know on a medium-term, face-to-face basis. You could also allow certain people to share your files without letting their friends share your files.

update checker - software will prompt user to update it when new versions are available so users won't get stuck with an insecure or broken version.

Spreads virally

Integration with IM will make it extremely easy for this software to spread in popularity.

* user can easily invite buddies to group during normal operation (right click on buddy lists "invite" option)
* buddy gets sent a link to download the program
* invitee instantly gets joined to users' buddy list once they sign on, and vice versa.

Possible future features

* Firewalls
o software coaches people on how to get around firewalls
o people can optionally set their computer to be a proxy for firewalled friends.
* all communication that happens through IM can be coded in normal English
* multi-source downloads
* drop box functionality where users can have drop boxes and friends can push content to their buddies' drop boxes.
* content feeds - allow users to subscribe to feeds, where files come in from trusted friends-of-friends (sort of like a trusted bittorrent).
* request list - allow people to broadcast requested files to friends and friends of friends. A requested CD, for example, could be ripped and then shared.
* integrates with giFT, both ways
o as a daemon - people can use another interface to share across this network.
o as an interface - people can use the IM interface to search (and share, if they want) on gnutella, OpenFT, etc



Make This Software Happen Now

We're in a race to get this done. Think about how you felt when they started suing people. Now think how you're going to feel when they send somebody to jail. We have to stop this from happening. We need two things to get this software made: a fast, skilled lead developer and money to pay her or him. We want to offer a $500 bounty to the programmer that can do this. Help us:

1. Give Money
The sooner you give, the sooner the software will exist for you and everyone else. We are taking donations via PayPal and 100% of what you give will go directly to the programmer. Downhill Battle has a solid track record of getting projects out the door, and we are going to make this happen.
Goal: $500
Raised as of Nov 11, 2pm: $101
(Note: You do not need to create a paypal account to donate with a credit card.)

2. Program It
If you are a programmer and know that you have the time and ability to do this quickly, please send an email to labs|at|downhillbattle.org. Briefly tell us your experience and why you would be a good choice for this project.

The resulting software will be free and open-source, released under the GPL. We will make a sourceforge page and developer mailing list for this project very shortly. Downhill Battle is also in the midst of developing a simplified Bit Torrent client called Blog Torrent. A beta for developers could be released in the next few days.

http://downhillbattle.org/labs/gaim_filesharing_plugin/

[black_magiic]

This is a pretty interesting idea. It will definately be interesting to see where it goes

[Deegin]

Hrm, I'll follow this through it's development. Sounds good!

[evilmegaman]

if this project actually lifts off I think I will have gone crazy.

[cpugeniusmv]

how about a version of gaim that file transfers actually work at least half of the time?

da dum chhhhhh

thank you, thank you...i'll be here all week.

[Lehk]

how about a version of gaim that file transfers actually work at least half of the time?

da dum chhhhhh

thank you, thank you...i'll be here all week.

Gaim transfers work fine, at least in 1.02 they work great. now the fact that any AIM transfer is sketchy behind a firewall isn't the fauly of gaim, i like the status messages letting oyu know what stage of a conneciton attemt you are in when working behind a firewall, so you can try to fix settings rather than what AIM does, sith there doing nothing then pop up a "failed" message

[AussieMatt]

Well Downhill Battle have sent an email off to Roberto Rossi the developer of Ants to see if he would be interested things could be moving very quickly if that is the case.

[cpugeniusmv]

Gaim transfers work fine, at least in 1.02 they work great. now the fact that any AIM transfer is sketchy behind a firewall isn't the fauly of gaim, i like the status messages letting oyu know what stage of a conneciton attemt you are in when working behind a firewall, so you can try to fix settings rather than what AIM does, sith there doing nothing then pop up a "failed" message

interesting. haven't used gaim in a while.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

Well Downhill Battle have sent an email off to Roberto Rossi the developer of Ants to see if he would be interested things could be moving very quickly if that is the case.

Who is Downhill battle

Gaim and Ants wil never join, because ants is java and gaim is c++
Ants is joined with Jeti Jabber see here: jetiants.tk

Gaim needs a DHT search engine for 7 hops or wieder from friend of friend to freinds.

This is really a simple thing, but the gaim developers do not want and do this.

So there has to be a plugin .

I do not think that there will be enough mony,. same money collection thing jason for mute is doing. this has no sucess. I do not believe there will a beta.

There was the idea to just to integrate WASTE from nullsoft. this is really a good thign and would work !!!! so you get the dynamic Ip adresses and WASTE wil be a stable buddylist without sending ip adresses as a network, jsut as an messenger.

then you can bring all aol buddies on WASTE and they will share and find wihtin their buddies. Only hopping fron freind friends willt hen not be possible, or: the friend has to make a DHT and a tunnel from his friends. Then WASTE integration would work, if the next direct buddy is sharing all DHT hashes in his database and if a file is requested, then a direct IP contact could be made or it has to be roouted in the waste style . Dunno if waste coudl do this, it the node then is not ont he network of this buddy.

So ... muc work and no beta for one year developement

[John W. Lindh]

Gaim needs a DHT search engine for 7 hops or wieder from friend of friend to freinds.[/B]

DHT, 7 hops? You clearly don't know what you're talking about...

[AussieMatt]

ABC you clearly dont know what you are talking about , dont read your own Posts or know much about the Anti-Corpyright movement if you dont know who Downhill Battle is, did you Just cut and paste the thread from the JETIANTS Mailing list .....read your own links . Google for Grey Tuesday to see what a good publicity Machine Downhill Battle Has and look around the Downhill Battle Site while you are looking at the link you posted in your original post.

Downhill Battle have already contacted Roberto and looks like they will do somthing with him they agree the Ants protocol is the best availible for thier project but they want the GUI be a IM that has file sharing funtions instead of a file sharing program that has some IM functions . Roberto can program C and JAVA hes a clever man he could create thier plugin in Java and interface to Gaim with C as it only needs nodes to bootsrtap onto the Ants network and its a only a Plugin not a full blown IM or filesharing program .Also they may look at using JETI with a Ants plugin. At the momnet JETI Ants is a filesharing program with JETI IM Tab and intergration so thier are many possibilities here .

Think outside the box, isnt that what Ants is about .

WASTE will not work becuse you need to exchange keys and IPs manaually unless you have a script that does a cron job on the profile files and adds the keys automaticly (there is a PHP script that does this) .The problem with WASTE is that the RIAA could use social engineering and become a friend of a friend becuse WASTE is not secure once you are inside the network.

Downhill Battle have already recived $100 for thier bounty and it was posted yeasterday thats pretty good fundraising.Downhill Battle have alot of Artists that support them that have been screwed by Big Music or Own Independant Record Labels read thier interviews at the Downhill Battle Site that you didnt seem to read in your original post. They are not Jason Roher begging to support his family.They are a non profit organisation that has been quite sucessfull at promoting the anti-copyright and anti-big media message.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

yes I found it there as well this link
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/magnet-uri/message/240

jetiants-tk does not need gai, because jeti is the same as gaim !
it even offers jabber support for everybody, so users are tracked to an open system away from aol, if aol wants to stop ip transferring for ants, then jabber is a backup.

Jetiants is perfect. So why should roberto recode all into c++ ?
Ok a daemon with a cache of ip adresses would do.
As well the downbattle concept speaks of direct transfers and not of a slow thing like ants.
So GAIM plus p2p plugin will be 2. generation ,not 3. generation.

> so ther ar emany possibilities

Right, this discussion is oldfashioned. Ever as any hybrid appers the battle begins, the one say, we do not need Im, the IMs people say, we do not need p2p.

So waht do YOU want ? A messenger with searchfunction for a database of your buddies ? Or a 3. generation app with direct IP IM ? Or a IM with ANTS. 3, generation p2p protocol ?
And if you use a Messenger ? will you choose JETI or GAIM ?
If you want to track users to a not commercial IM system will it be WASTE or JABBER ?

I like the idea, that everybody using the ants p2p app (which will be so popular as Kazaa one time) is creating a JABBER account additionally to aol.

this means an open source IM backup system, If everybody has JABEBR you can write s script to automatically go away from AOL.

WASTE: Waste is pretty easy, you can transfer the WASTE KEY over the chatwindow. and then forget AOL as well or only for bootstrapping for dyn ip users.
If i speak of WASTE, I never speak of a network, only in its BUDDYLSIT function., so no broadcasting IP adresses on the net. Only your buddie sand then there is no riaa.

Thanks for the info about all..
If GAIM willg et a workable file search system within the buddy list sahred database, and maybe as well from freind of friend with a hop by 7 friends, this woudl be great,. if it is done there is no probelm to give great amounts of money. Maybe I support download.com payments.

First we need a SF-net Project page. then the maiölinglist for communicationa and a first beta version.

Ants would be goodm, but G2 (gnucleus or kiwi alpha) with buddies would do as well.

it is nonsense to switch for ants from jeti to gaim.
But it is ok to give the Battle people the code of ants to make their plugin for gaim.
This needs another name !

And : Roberto should stay on the project of Jetiants. No extensive work for gaim-ants-plugin.

So... to get Jetiants big with jabber ans all in one messenger, we just need some skin coders for a better gui in Jetiants.

[Dave_Man]

All this sounds very good and nice but the problem is that most regular users have slow upload speeds.. what this project will mean is that people with slow dsl's are going to be downloading from their friends that also have dsl's.. meaning slow..
anyways.. its also going to build file sharing communities based on location and not on preferences.. people are encouraged to trust only people they have SEEN.. meaning people that live next to them..
this will devide the great multi-national file sharing communities that exist today..
unless they make tons of hops.. when each hop makes it less secure..
or maybe i'm not getting it...
from what i understand.. each friend of a friend of a friend gets the first guys IP and not some generated ID like in mute and ants..
generating an ID will be useless couse the transfer itself is IP to IP and not through the chain of friends.
this makes every additional hop less and less secure.. meaning the network won't be truely one network but several networks.. some large and some small..

correct me if i got it all wrong..
Dave Man.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

I agree, GAIM FIELSHARING needs swarming and partials giving back a queryhit!
With g2 protocol you get 1000 results from 80.000 nodes with 7 hops.
In GAIM you would get 5-10 results and this from only 100 x 100 ... ( 7 times) nodes minus dublicates.
Right the question has to be done, which system works more efficient and more secure.
Jetiants uses the messenger only for bootstrapping, so we do not need ANTS in gaim, becasue we already have JETI and it is perfect synchonized because bothis in java.

Though GAIM needs filesharing or a file transfer protocol.
This could be done with a simple g2 client, which connects only to ip adresses from aa caceh which was generated by freinds of freinds IP adresses.

BTW: DSL is not slow, but you need swarming. Swarmign in ANTS has never been tested, with a g2 protocol only connecting to freinds IP adresses with a hop of 7 would work very well, and there coudl be the option to swarm ass well from g2 network outside, so from shareaza network with ed2k as well if there are no sources.

I recommend to use g2 dor gaim and jetiants will stay as it is. secure and safe and an aditional messenger filesahring hybrid app. A little bit compettion is needed, Not in every messenger could be ants !

So Shareaza Mike, say something to your protocol and make a GAIM plugin, which works as well for Shareaza and as well for MERCORA

A MERCORA SHAREAZA HYBRID has never been discussed before, GAIM coudl be teh solution to make MEDIA available in MERCORA as a STREAM from GAIM Buddies and as well to let GAIM BUDDIES swarm front h shareaza network.

if then this plugin coudl work inside Shareaza, then Buddies can SWARM files from SAHREZA and OVER GAIM MERCORA GETS A LOT OF STREAMS FROM BUDDIES.

just implement GAIM into both, Shareaza and Mercora. Mercora gets the streams from buddies and users get security from buddies over gaim in shareaza.

[AussieMatt]

Remeber this is only a project description its not a plan of what this plugin will be .If you have multisource downloads which Ants currently has and it uses a Torrent system to do this (no Not Bittorent so dont even ask) you can have good download speeds .Ants needs stable 24/7 nodes to operate , a IM network that is on all the time would facilitate this .At the moment Ants is a network in flux with nodes coming and going on a constant basis so the nework fails .In a friends only sharing network people will end up having copies of each others files and they will all openly share thier download directory one would hope so muitisource torrents will work in this situation.