WASTE vs DC , Anarchy vs Oligarchy
DC hubs are Kingdoms.. with king like and queen like patriarchal roles for the admins & ops , totaly centralized in nature.
it's a big question for me the validity of WASTE over DC and the features and reasons y.
hub software announces itself to hubtracker list where Feds, and other corperate IP owners scan with mos++ like toolz
DC has a large chat room that people have no choice to not be in or not, heavy on server resources causing lag, as well as searches being heavy too
DC is completely centralized an attack on the hub server runner causes network disruption & other instabilties
ALL chat , private or main chat. goes thru the server in plain readable text that can be logged for viewing in real time or later.
all data transferred between all dc clients is totaly unencrypted ripe for a carnivore type snooping
DC requires somebody to sacrifice for all the others by having the responsibility to keep the hub running 24.7, have cared for security and policing others all while themselves being police targets.
there is a constant war against people who are labeled leeches and modified client runners or sharing anything that is distasteful to a admin or op at any particular time, even having the 'wrong' opinion will get your moraly judgde by a oligarch.
While I think it all understandable that people would place themselves in archaic type hierarchies to get protection I find it much more advantageous to have the opposite type of hierarchy or none, decentralization bottom up power or all being self empowered. Pure P2P. where each individual in a group can allow, or not, keys or ips of each (kinda like a radical decentralized soulseek derivitive where only people on your list can access your files), thus sharing as they see fit with anybody on there mesh or even form/start there own mesh and all have the ability to invite new people into a mesh or meshes based on being on it.
having multiple eqaulitarian chat rooms, #chat and hidden ones &1337 etc
internal file and folder linking waste:/User/What%20is%20Compassionate%20Anarchy.doc
file & folder sends ,autoaccept (on by default)
total control over your own bandwidth, slots and everything else imaginable about yourself
changeable nick . key stays the same (even spoofing)
passive to passive transfers, firewall to firewall by unique mutual aide routing, found in other p2ps like BT MUTE freenet ANTS
as powerful search as DC but more. Faster than and more complete than MS windows search (.folder names, file extensions , partial name matching & a filter.)
totaly secure chat and file transfers with RSA blowfish encryption up to 4096 bit
no server, no downtime, more stability, more secure
stable , beta 1 thru alpha 1.5.2 or any other haven't crashed.
can run as many multiple instances in one or on many meshes.
internal and external linking in chat waste:// http://www.
ability to set up with near complete anonymity. (use max length nick [hides your], disable browse and leve enable search, option to disassociate nick from transfer enabled & set up your allow IP & key lists with people you trust) in this situation you are about running MUTE, ANTS on a WASTE mesh.
back up and move identity with private key and memorized password
small 196k , low mem use.
no 50 users limit, router/listerner ratio is the limit as seen by phatbot virus that uses waste tech and the nullnet
enjoy. if you have any opinions on this comparison and contrast between meshes and hubs. i'm interested in things i may not have thought of. and also interested to explain any other part of p2p culture and it's anarchist (atonomus self organized dirrect action concencus affinity group ish) roots and current in action places to get involved if you may be interested in such
down for all forms of domination(patriarchy, domesticcaion, phobias) and end the grip of lifless institutions ( state, regligion , corporations, life harming belief)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
nobody has any thing to add?
Originally Posted by c411Z
other than being pure FUD, there isn't much to add to it
kingdoms--don't like the hub? don't like the rules? go somewhere else
encryption--who cares? nobody is intercepting packets, and it would be illegal for the RIAA etc. to do so
registering hubs--using ptokax, you can disable it, set your hub at a nonstandard port (not 411) and you will avoid the port scans that are looking for hubs
glosearch/etc--it can only find hubs on public lists, so private hubs are immune, also, ptokax blocks them by default
bad users--if you know who you are letting in, you don't have to worry (waste isn't immune to assholes either)
chat--don't like it? type /clear, and don't look at it
logging--not a problem in a group of people you trust
WASTE is fine, and it works. dc is fine and it works. either way you are a hell of a lot safer than kazaa etc
people whine about the exclusivity of dc--WASTE is at least as exclusive, if not moreso, the funny part is when jerks who get booted from dc hubs for being obnoxious assholes love to preach the alternates
'bad' users - bad is vague & moralist here, who is a bad user to you? you mean somebody who messages you too much or downloads from you when you don't want it , unsatisfied feelings realating to unmet needs?
in waste you can set up to authorize only keys and or ips you want. dc not so unless you go externally into a firewall software or you make your concerns know about such user to a admin/op who is forces to make a judgment/evaluation.
as far as waste not being immune to 'assholes' who are you referring to here as a asshole.. and as i said above you can be immune of who ever you please. even set it up to authorize a chat before it starts..
with dc only the admins (sometimes ops) are letting people in, a bottle neck, a huge responsibility and also very authoritarian and i guess the ultimate weakness of centralization in many a p2p system not just DC in addition to the possibility of server attack and network downtime...
'nobody is intercepting packets ' would you 'believe' so? even based on knowing how governments monitor and censor citizens and the recent revealation by ACLU that the feds have secretly been in the records of businesses ever since patriot act was passed. no carnivre nessisary huh what a wasteful p&r projectm, maybe.. and this isn't addressing my concern about the fact that the admins has a open view to all the private text of all the DC users chats..
chat-, and if you don't like it hit clear... hehe y do i sense you are being defensive because of dc having a in 1 chat only ability? maybe i am misreading ? but i meant no offence just to point out .. that waste has many other ways to configure chatting with multiple rooms hidden and visible and not with no choice to not be in it.
trust. its a big question , do you get paranoid and ban people from your hub that you might have assumed stuff about or been biased to them for personal reasons as a op? it happens, psychology has show people put in power over others can't help from exploiting in ways.. i could translate it to a need for michivious(feeling) play(need). well on a mesh this can;t happen there is no hierarchy.. each is empowered and liberated for their own individual self and yes in there by choice that's the only thing i agree to so far with you if you don;t want to be somewhere no need to be.. everybody has choice and understanding your consequences can be more clear in a decentralized system then in a centralized system (see book on main newz now Anarchist in the library , it's focus is on this issue oligarchy vsr anarchy understanding both and how they will define our culture) i think this newly released books offers some insights to looking not just at the larger systems of law vs sharers but centralized vs decentralized systems.
x is fine y is fine.. again i ask for clarity a 3rd time. what is fine to you?
yes kazaa is a mess..
exclusivity.. both are very different but waste has the ability for anyone on the hub to sign up a friend with out going thru bureaucracy and making others responsible.
you say i am preaching? because i was kick/banned from zeropaid hub? naa i am more involved than that and by the way what is the method of your exclusivity and mandatory politic for joining your guys's hub now if you don't mind me asking..
so we agree kazaa is a mess and we'll continue to keep our eyes on the health of centralized and decentralized systems and their social effects on users?
me i like having both and being active in many ways on each from running waste in anonymous (mute) mode (routing with people you trust and using the hidden name easter egg & search not browse) to being in dc as admins ops and user private public and reg before search using reverse connect. waiting to see waste v2 protocol too....
Unfortunately I'm on the same mesh as Callz here. Let it be known that he is a very annoying little ragamuffin and no one on our mesh has a favorable opinion of him. The reason why he considers Waste a god like program is because no one has the power to kick him off.
I imagine Callz got a little too rambunctious in DC and got his ass kicked for being himself. Probably why he has such an unfavorable opinion of it. People have the power to kick off idiots and assholes.
To Callz who claims he's a fullblood anarchist: Anarchy only works if everyone is intelligent. You're an imature kid suffereing from teen agnst who for some reason is upset at the world. You make your movement look foolish.
DC eh? Think I'll take a look at that.
lets get this straight you registered to post here just so you could spread some hate label me and assume what i am as well as speak for others? hmm sounds like you , you who think its your 'life calling' is to be on the nullnet so you can stay 'stressed'? newsflash waste is bigger than the little test darknet of openness and insecurity that your on. making claims for me as to what you 'think' i am or saying something is 'god like' to me is the same trap you keep falling in ifxv. violent assumptions judgmental evaluatory communication , you are only frustrating yourself i see no resolution in your strategy but the alienation of others (you from yourself and others). if that's your thing go for it but be aware we are talking about you behind your back and how much of a untrustable confrotationaly non-ally you are. making your own DC hub may be just the think for you since you seem to want power to dicriminate... but already i feel bad for the people who will have to take the blunt of your misdirrected anger that comes from your lack of loving yourself.
:green6
:ass
Oh yeah, almost forgot to say. Callz you invited me, along with everyone else in the room to voice their opinions. Only thing you got back was one negative one :mellow
I got a lot of time in my hands, remember, I'm bored at work.
for a guy with nothing to say, you sure use a hell of a lot of words to get there
i guess the lesson is when you beg for an opinon, don't be surprised if it isn't the one you wanted
maybe the problem isn't dc--maybe you really are an asshole in denial
as for FUD , fear uncertainty and doubt misinformation with regards to competition.
i disagree. this is a open source program and i have made observations and compared it to another system as to allow people to make educated choices i know i slanted it to waste and the features in their that i feel embody what i seek in a p2p app and pointed out some of the things in DC that i don't value. but i also made it clear i use both
but if we are talking about your feelings when you say FUD well what do think will help you alleviate these unsatisfied feelings? and also you have left so many of my other questions unanswered, any reason?
the lesson you draw i don't apply to myself because 1 i am not begging. i stated if you want to reply and have some insight i would be interested in it. as far as opinions they are just that 'beliefs'. and i am still not clear what yours is. i think your drawing yourself into moral quagmires.
it's not possible to hold anybody else responsible for your feelings.. (irritation etc) you have a choice..
lets see-- you obsess about pms being read and logged by hub operators, mos++ etc compromising the security of hubs, encrypyion and its "importance"
you don't consider those 1 sided disingenuous arguments FUD?
mos++ is a dead issue--any hub with half a brain is private, unregistered, and on an alternate port.
logging isn't an issue when people you share with are people you actually know and like.
encryption is meaningless, because nobody is getting their packets sniffed, they are getting busted by people with standard clients getting their lists because it is cheaper and there are no legal issues. packet sniffing is illegal for everyone but law enforcement, and infringement of music copyrights is so far a civil, not criminal case (software for profit is a criminal case)
no, because i don't see them in a competitive nature , in fact i avoid competition and seek cooperation
and these issues are still valid , so they may not be to your niche zeropaid DC hub. well my post was about ALL dc networks sure SOME have taken extra security precautions to avoid future problems but still the issue of centralization = oligarchy is paramount to the p2p debate.
privacy is always a issue and DC hubs and clients are not able to take a direction that truly enables this because of the protocol. Admins will still be able to read private chats, sure most don't but the fact that it's so easy is a concern.
assuming no packets are being logged sniffed etc is very assumptions i think , it's in the realm of possible so it must be considered and if there is evidence either, i say share it. (please no RIAA pr quotes :) )
in general i can admit i am frustrated. manly because of the heavy burden of being an op (regs, grievances) and because of the power ops have that leads to abuse.. this level of taking responsibility of others and using reward punishment systems is something that can be done away with by enabling each to empower themselves under new architecture and has brought me as well as others who have shared with me using it joy and hope of a continued secure sharing environment.
in other news, Phatbot virus/trojan based on WASTE, coder busted in germany today...
http://www.cmpnetasia.com/ViewArt.cf...id=3&subcat=50
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/...tlinked_1.html
now even tighter with added security of 1.5.2!
Giving a "slanted" review, as you call it, is not giving much of a review at all.
WASTE has some good, solid features.
DC has some good, solid features.
Likewise, both clients have features that could be improved upon and problems that could be alleviated. Really, who cares?
I am a big fan of DC and have used it for a long time--it's great. Tons of files, good quality, whatever you want. However, since the conception of WASTE, a semi-large group of friends and I use it to share files and keep in touch since we DL different things. IMO, WASTE is a little bit better for groups of people to gather, but, again, that may be based on my personal experiences.
I think that pretty much sums it up.
i care . and "good" is too vauge for me... & 'slanted' seems rather judgmental
it would meet my need for more understanding if you were to say what specific features your refering to and how they are for you.
would you care to? and if not further replies i sure would appiritiate if it's made reference to the specific observations of the differences and their effects on community solidarity and autonomy etc
thx
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