Building a pc

[Seraskier]

It is some time since the last "im building a pc thread" so her comes a new one
Indeed i am building my pc myself so i can get all those sweet komponets i want whitout having to pay someone else to do it.

However, the computer will mostly be used for gaming, but also for the creation of backups and vcd's and burning these.
Second it will be used to watch movies and anime, it will however not be used to watch tv on or to capture video from tv.

To continue, whit the experience gained from reding magazines over the yers and ofcourse the ZP forums and using Gamespy's budget/ultimat gamers pc
http://www.gamespy.com/hardware/june03/ugm/
http://www.gamespy.com/hardware/march03/bgm/
as a guidline these are consequently the parts i have come upp whit.


System Case: Antec SX1040BII 135.00 €
Case Fans: Antec LED fan green (34CFM. 30dB) 16.00 €
Microprocessor: AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 282.00 €
Heatsink & Fan: Thermaltake Volcano 11+ Xaxer Edition 48.00 €
Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X Deluxe ddr/agp8x/usb2/1394/sata 141.00 €
Memory: Kingston 512MB DDR 400MHz PC-3200 157.00 €
Monitor: LCD/Flat CRT Monitor ?
GraphicsCard: Ati Radeon/Nvidia GeForce ?
Hard Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB ATA133/7200 121.00 €
Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB SATA150/7200 122.80 €
DVD Drive: Lite-on LTD-163 16X-DVD 48xCD-ROM 38.00 €
CD Drive: Lite-on LTR-52327S CD-RW 52X/32X/52X 46.00 €
Floppy Drive: Samsung 3.5" 1.44MB 8.50 €
IDE & Floppy Cables: Round ATA133 45cm black 11.00 €
Round Floppy 25cm black 8.00 €
Speaker System: Logitech Z-640 (5.1) 92.00 €
Keyboard & Mouse: Logitech Cordless Elite Duo 100.00 €
Operating System: Windows XP Pro

1898.5 €


well there it is. Some have two alternatives, this is when i was uncertain of which to buy and to these i wold seek the advice of ZP forum users.

Question one:
Monitor, LCD or Flat CRT Monitor, i have always wanted a LCD monitor but when seing the prices on 15' monitors a begun to doubt. still, question a 100-200 € LCD compared to a flat CRT in the same price class, is there a grafic loss and if so how much better would the CRT/LCD be?


Question two:
Graphics Card, well i thought that one might be as with the processor were one could go whit the one step below cutting edge, but damn was i wrong, not only was ther countles different models in the 200-400€ region but also countles versions of each model. So i ask what would be a good Graphics Card. I will not be using the pc as a tv or recording sutff from tv, but i will be playing new games like HL 2 and Doom 3 and loking not to uppgrade for some time, so what would be a suitable card in the quite not most expensive area?


Question three:
ata or sata. So everyone has been on about how good the new sata hd's are but also how expensive they are, and therefor i thought i would get the ata drive but looking att the price difference (1 €) u can imagine my suprise, so i asked myself did i not only miss the introduction of the sata but also the lowering of the price? However, ata or sata?


The prices are all collected from the same site www.verkkokauppa.com and serve only to give me an idea of what the pc might cost, and that was a sum i can not afford... yet.

As i live in Finland i will limit my purchases to sites located in Finland
An Finish equivalent of Price Watch or PriceGrabber would be http://www.mbnet.fi/hintaseuranta/etusivu.asp

well that was that, now i would like som feedback on components chosen and the questions, and possible flaws/cheaper better alternatives in the list.

[cpugeniusmv]

Question 1:

the monitor....as far as i know, it is still the case that LCDs don't handle video, or moving pictures such as games very well. if you're going to be doing heavy gaming, get a nice CRT...a flat screen CRT is good.

Question 2:

i'm not really positive about this one, but i think the best one out there still is the ATI (someone will correct me if i'm wrong) and i bet there's a bunch of benchmarks on several cards at sites such as Toms Hardware.

Question 3:

go with ata. the hard drives can't fill up the capacity of the ATA transportation method, much less the SATA. in a few years, i'm sure they'll be much faster...and worth getting. but for now i'd stick with ATA.

[Sephiroth]

Its not my PC so i dont really care what you put in it.

My advice is to check out some of the review sites like tomshardware which was mentioned and try to get some hands on use of things that you want and think ahead and dont waste money on add on crap that you can do at any time like round cables or additional fans until you get your system built and read the temperature settings and then if its running a bit warm then go and get them and dont buy all the parts when you dont really need too and salvage what you can from your current pc like Floppy drive and cd drive.

Make sure that all your parts are compatible with each other and look at the info of different products, their features and pick the one that you want. Your the one whos going to use it not anyone here.

[phalkon30]

I agree with cpu.

I don't really like ATI cards, but I haven't used one in a while, and I've heard the newer drivers are actually stable! So my arguements against them are weak. Nvidia all the way for me.

You'll most likely want a DX9 card. The geforce FX series is nice...but unless you get the 5900 (not cheap), ati would be your best choice. I personally just got a Geforce TI4200s, which runs about the same speed as a 4400-4600, and its great, it IS dx8, but I paid $110 for it.

[CCSDUDE]

Question 1:

the monitor....as far as i know, it is still the case that LCDs don't handle video, or moving pictures such as games very well. if you're going to be doing heavy gaming, get a nice CRT...a flat screen CRT is good.

Question 2:

i'm not really positive about this one, but i think the best one out there still is the ATI (someone will correct me if i'm wrong) and i bet there's a bunch of benchmarks on several cards at sites such as Toms Hardware.

Question 3:

go with ata. the hard drives can't fill up the capacity of the ATA transportation method, much less the SATA. in a few years, i'm sure they'll be much faster...and worth getting. but for now i'd stick with ATA.

1) LCD's of quality actually make most 3d games look damn good. Brightness an contrast are, of course, less then that of a good CRT monitor though. Stick with CRT unless you have the cash to throw around on a Plasma HDTV...those kick ass for games. :P

2) Go with a mid range ATi card...something with no less then 64mb and more like 128 to keep up with the times. Doom III's min spec is like 128mb 9000 pro or some shit.. The creator said going with Nvidia will lead to decreased performance based on it's brute force method of moving textures. While the ATi with more pipelines along side all the hardware compression/decompression to help with bandwitdh issues will out do any Nvidia at this time. So I'd say ATi is your best bet as you can always upgrade ATi's buggy software later..

3) ATA till 10,000 RPM drives become a standard...you'll get more bang for your buck ala ATA...even if the cables aren't as neat...it's still better.

Skip out on that Elite Duo...I've seen reviews and used it..the keys felt mushy to me and gameplay sucked on it. I'd just grab some cheap 19 buck Logitech optical mouse and any old keyboard that doesn't have mushy keys. Total cost of the two will be less then half that. Just won't have the cordless fun.. :P

[Malakai1911]

Case/Power Supply: Antec Sonata (w/ TruePower 380w) $102
CPU: AMD Athlon64 3200+ $432
Heatsink/Fan: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu $39.87
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-K8NNXP $188
RAM: Corsair TWINX512-4000PT 500MHz $185 (two sticks, 1GB total)
Hard Drive: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Hard Drive #2: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Floppy: Generic Black, $10

Video Card: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro $346
- Monitor: NEC FP912SB 19" $290
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy, OEM $47.00
- Speakers: Altec Lansing XA3021 (2.1ch) $42

DVD Burner: NEC ND-1300A (Black Bezel) $123 (It's a combo + and -, and burns normal CD's)

Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech, whatever $50

Total Cost - 2028.41 USD (1,732.65 EUR)


That's what I would do. $129.91 more than your pieced together system.

I dunno, just giving you an idea of a kick-ass rig with top-of-the-line components.

You made an interesting ram choice. For $10 less, you can get a PAIR of faster (500 vs. 400MHz) corsair ram @ 512, giving you 1024(1Gig) instead.

edit: formatting error.

[cpugeniusmv]

Case/Power Supply: Antec Sonata (w/ TruePower 380w) $102
CPU: AMD Athlon64 3200+ $432
Heatsink/Fan: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu $39.87
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-K8NNXP $188
RAM: Corsair TWINX512-4000PT 500MHz $185 (two sticks, 1GB total)
Hard Drive: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Hard Drive #2: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Floppy: Generic Black, $10

Video Card: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro $346
- Monitor: NEC FP912SB 19" $290
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy, OEM $47.00
- Speakers: Altec Lansing XA3021 (2.1ch) $42

DVD Burner: NEC ND-1300A (Black Bezel) $123 (It's a combo + and -, and burns normal CD's)

Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech, whatever $50

Total Cost - $2028.41


That's what I would do. $129.91 more than your pieced together system.

I dunno, just giving you an idea of a kick-ass rig with top-of-the-line components.

You made an interesting ram choice. For $10 less, you can get a PAIR of faster (500 vs. 400MHz) corsair ram @ 512, giving you 1024(1Gig) instead.

edit: formatting error.

i'm drooling....i bought my rig about 9 months ago...and it's already on its way out :(

[Seraskier]

Your the one whos going to use it not anyone here.

I would disagree, i hope that others will also find these thread's useful othervise it wold be useless to post them, but hey... i cold be wrong

You made an interesting ram choice...

unfortuanetly they dont sell any corsair here and the cheapest 1gb ram was 181.78 € and the site stated the manufacturer of it was NON-ECC, and here i thought NON-ECC was a defenition and not a company. And the mobo does not suport 500 Mhz RAM. so still uncertain of which to go whit.

whilest it indeed was a drool inviting system u put upp it is also one i cannot afford.

the keys felt mushy to me and gameplay sucked

i looked upp the word "mushy" and think i know what you men, as i have had similar experience myself, yet newer palyed whit one such bord, and it is somthing i could still live whit. But if it has a negative effect on my gameplay for example, losing a game of Lan FPS because my inabillity dodge bullets whit my "mushy" keybord, i will have to go whit another bord.


changes from original system:

Monitor: Viewsonic G90F+B 19" Flat 270.84 €
no LCD for me :(
Hard Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB ATA133/7200 RPM 113 €
going whit the ata drive, but still wondering bout the smal price difference between the sata and ata.
No round cables: courtesy of Sephiroth :p
Memory: Pending
Keyboard & Mouse: Pending
Graphics Card: CLUB 3D RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB CRT+TV+DVI 359.00 €
Has enyone bought a CLUB 3D card. it was much cheaper then the SAPPHIRE 425,78€, HERCULES 419.00 € and Gigabyte 430.00 €?

[CCSDUDE]

I would disagree, i hope that others will also find these thread's useful othervise it wold be useless to post them, but hey... i cold be wrong



unfortuanetly they dont sell any corsair here and the cheapest 1gb ram was 181.78 € and the site stated the manufacturer of it was NON-ECC, and here i thought NON-ECC was a defenition and not a company. And the mobo does not suport 500 Mhz RAM. so still uncertain of which to go whit.

whilest it indeed was a drool inviting system u put upp it is also one i cannot afford.



i looked upp the word "mushy" and think i know what you men, as i have had similar experience myself, yet newer palyed whit one such bord, and it is somthing i could still live whit. But if it has a negative effect on my gameplay for example, losing a game of Lan FPS because my inabillity dodge bullets whit my "mushy" keybord, i will have to go whit another bord.


changes from original system:

Monitor: Viewsonic G90F+B 19" Flat 270.84 €
no LCD for me :(
Hard Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB ATA133/7200 RPM 113 €
going whit the ata drive, but still wondering bout the smal price difference between the sata and ata.
No round cables: courtesy of Sephiroth :p
Memory: Pending
Keyboard & Mouse: Pending
Graphics Card: CLUB 3D RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB CRT+TV+DVI 359.00 €
Has enyone bought a CLUB 3D card. it was much cheaper then the SAPPHIRE 425,78€, HERCULES 419.00 € and Gigabyte 430.00 €?

Buy 1 cheap round cable set... (1 floppy cable/1 80pin IDE) then break out some old 40pin IDE cables and round them yourself. CDR/CD/DVD drives get no where near 133mb per second and most if not all (the ones with a huge on drive cache - like 4-8megs would probably get a bit of a gain using 80's) CD drives will never make it past what a 40 pin cable can give. So rounding them with a bit of heat shrink or tape is best price wise. Also if your wondering what the difference is between 40/80 pin IDE then read on...lol

40 - 40 signals..
80 - Signal/ground/signal/ground all the way up the line to reduce interference and jack up the transfer rates. I'm not up to date on how SATA breaks down electronics wise so that may be a wiser choice down the line (even at 7200 rpm).

Anyway...by 'mushy' I mean they keys don't have a quality press cap in each key.

And by that I mean the cheaper process of making the spring back action are suction cup like keys with electronically conductive pads on the underside. Better keyboards use a very dome like cup and a thin stiff pad while cheap keyboards usually use a very sharp angled thin cup and a semi-soft pad.

Gaming related to such things would be hitting < then going ^ then hitting < again really fast only to find your getting half the feedback on the key. Which usually fucks the hell outta your reflex and timing. It's also annoying as hell to use whilst typing.

Go for a logitech without the wireless as they tend to cut costs to lower the price of the gemmick cordless. Go for logitech on the mouse as well...the scroll wheel on my bj69 (yes..as I've stated in another thread that is the real model number) has held up well along side the clicking mechanism and the optics on this mouse are very responsive.

[g-smooth2k]

Originally Posted by Malakai1911
Case/Power Supply: Antec Sonata (w/ TruePower 380w) $102
CPU: AMD Athlon64 3200+ $432
Heatsink/Fan: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu $39.87
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-K8NNXP $188
RAM: Corsair TWINX512-4000PT 500MHz $185 (two sticks, 1GB total)
Hard Drive: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Hard Drive #2: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Floppy: Generic Black, $10

Video Card: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro $346
- Monitor: NEC FP912SB 19" $290
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy, OEM $47.00
- Speakers: Altec Lansing XA3021 (2.1ch) $42

DVD Burner: NEC ND-1300A (Black Bezel) $123 (It's a combo + and -, and burns normal CD's)

Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech, whatever $50

Total Cost - $2028.41


That's what I would do. $129.91 more than your pieced together system.

I dunno, just giving you an idea of a kick-ass rig with top-of-the-line components.

You made an interesting ram choice. For $10 less, you can get a PAIR of faster (500 vs. 400MHz) corsair ram @ 512, giving you 1024(1Gig) instead.

edit: formatting error.

Good Processor AMD Athlon 64 3200+
Good Choice Western Digital but go with the 160GB SE (WD1600JB) $105 @ pricewatch.com
Excellent Video Card ATI 9800 Pro
Great Monitor NEC FP912SB 19"
Love the Sound Card Sound Blaster Audigy
Speakers are Good Choice Altec Lansing
Can get a Logitech z-560 5.1ch for about $50
Keyboard / Mouse another good choice

[Malakai1911]

Iunfortuanetly they dont sell any corsair here and the cheapest 1gb ram was 181.78 € and the site stated the manufacturer of it was NON-ECC, and here i thought NON-ECC was a defenition and not a company. And the mobo does not suport 500 Mhz RAM. so still uncertain of which to go whit.

whilest it indeed was a drool inviting system u put upp it is also one i cannot afford.

That sucks no corsair. Also, if you get faster ram, it will work, but just at the highest speed your motherboard will support. NON-ECC is a definition, so its prolly generic ram.

Seems prices over there suck. And can you avoid VAT by having a friend or family member in the US ship you all the components, or something?


BTW,

1,732.65 EUR for the one I pieced together.
1,898.50 EUR for the one you pieced together.

www.xe.com (currency conversion)

[Induna]

There's a big price jump with the higher end Athlon XP's. A 2600+ (where I live) costs around £65, a 2800+ is £105, and a 3000+ is £165. I'm not gonna even bother with the 3200+ look at this link
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/p...428746,00.html
all the top end Athlons run at 2.2Ghz. If you want a true 3Ghz system then get a P4 with a higher FSB too.

A 3.06Ghz Pentium 4 outperforms a 3200+.

Graphics cards, the fastest one is the new GeForce FX 5900 but you have to pay silly money for that. Like £500 silly. You can pick up a 5600 for just over £100.


As you can see, bang for buck the 2600+ is more value for money than the other three. I recently built a system with a 2600+ , 512MB of PC3200 DDR RAM and a GeForce FX5600 card. I tried Unreal Tournament 2003 and it played beautifully. No slowdown whatsoever.


I ran TMPG and it encoded a film in real time. i.e. If a disc was 55 mins it encoded it in 55mins. In some cases it was quicker.

Of course if you want the fastest and bestest computer you have to pay a premium but I prefer not to. You could save yourself half the cash for a just a slightly lower spec P.C. But not that much lower.

[Malakai1911]

all the top end Athlons run at 2.2Ghz. If you want a true 3Ghz system then get a P4 with a higher FSB too.

A 3.06Ghz Pentium 4 outperforms a 3200+.

Speaking of graphics cards. The fastest one is the new GeForce FX 5900 [...]

Uh, lets not get into debates but...

AMD's Athlon 64 dominates the P4 3.2C.

And ATI's Radeon 9800 Pro dominates the GeForce FX 5900, and if he wants nice high FPS in HL2, he will stick with ATI...

[Induna]

OK, but we was talking about the Athlon XP against the P4, not the Athlon64.

Reason being the price doesn't justify buying one, yet.

[lizardsforall]

I love the smell of 64-bit in the morning. the p4 may have hyperthreading but it is no match. Either some of the older ATI or nVidia models will give you what you need without costing you every cent.

Edit - Induna, missed your post