I actually believe that there are many ways for musicians to earn a very nice living in the age of free file sharing. It is just that most of them have not been invented yet.Originally posted by Thalus999
How much should I charge for a CD then? I charge $10 to $12 which covers the cost of pressing, printing, transportation and maybe $3 extra. If I sell 10 at a concert, it is a good night. The big $30 I make barely pays my gas to get to the gig. And, in case you never worked as a musician, most gigs pay crap. So it is a challenge to keep food on the table. File sharing is killing independent musicians like me and my band.
You are right -- the music stands on its own. It is a big hit on Kaaza. But I don't get a damn thing from that. And I deserve it!
I am hoping this thread can be a place for constructively brainstorming these types of ideas.
Let me start with a few. Just to get people thinking.
Live Shows
1) Use mp3s to promote your live shows. Make every show interesting and different. Record each show make mp3s and give them away on the internet.
2) There is an industry of Grateful Dead fans that pay cover to go to every show and record the concerts because each show is different. Encourage this.
3) Sell backstage passes. Bands are cool. People love to party with the band. Make them buy your drinks.
Mp3s
1) Give your content free to internet radio stations. They will happy to not have to pay royalty fees. This is a significant advantage for unsigned bands like yours.
2) Mp3 files have ID3 tags that you can used to put interesting and valuable information, like your web site address.
3) Put your show schedule in the ID3 tags.
4) Add secret messages. Make subtle changes (versions) of your songs. Make them collectable. Release them at different times, like U.S. state quarters. Charge a small donation to download the rare versions from your web site.
5) Sell custom dedicated versions of songs.
Your Message
1) Sell your message. Are you a politically active band? Do you have a cause? Create a non-profit corporation to support this cause. Do good and pay yourself a salary. Promote your cause at your shoes.
2) Sell your ideas and attitude. Tell me that people thronged to see punk bands because of their artistry. Be different, sell different.
3) Sell other products that support your message. Sarcastic items are always a big seller. Offer special items only to people who attend your shows. I saw a band called "The Ringwalds" once and although I thought they were mediocre at best. There was a girl wearing a group t-shirt that said, "I can't believe I gave my panties to a geek." I would pay cover at another show just to buy that shirt, for my wife.
Web Site
1) Have an active community website. They are easy to create using free software and can be hosted for as little as $3 per month.
2) Sell things on your web site, besides CD's. CafePress with print T-shirts, mugs, lunch boxes, etc. on demand for you with zero set-up charge and no advanced overhead.
3) Have a members site. Ask for a small monthly fee. Be interesting and give people a look into your world. Musicians are cool.
4) Take part in associates programs. These programs pay you money if you refer customers to them and they buy things. It is free and can make you some extra cash.
5) Have your own associates program. Let other people promote your goods in exchange for a small commission.
Plastic Discs
If you are still intend on selling the actual round pieces plastic. There are many things you can do to make people want to buy them.
1) Full disclosure seems to be a popular idea on this site. Publish on the outside of the CD your rational for the price. For instance, "I worked on this for 6 months, I am printing 1000 copies. The cost is $x.xx. I have these expenses: graphic artist, $xxx.xx; recording engineer, $xxx.xx; manufacturing and printing, $xxx.xx; musician's salary, $xxx.xx; Stress the people this sale will benefit. Don't whine. Pick your price and explain it. People with respect it even if it is too high.
2) If your costs are high. Encourage people to pool their money, buy one CD and make copies for themselves.
3) Don't make them round. You can have CD's made in all sorts of clever shapes. Make them collectors items. Give them holograms.
4) Make them DVD audio disks, it is the next big thing.
5) Make them enhanced CDs. Give people some clever extra content.
I could probably go on longer, but now it is someone else's turn.
CaptainMorgan
I'm just a fictional character, in a story of a fictional conspiracy to destroy the digital copyright industry.
Make your song as widely known as you possibly can, so that it is on everyone's lips and in everyone's ears and they love it with their whole heart.
Then sell it to Coke or AT&T or Smith&Wesson, whoever you like, and watch the money roll in with each commercial and each new campaign.
CaptainMorgan, despite our disagreement in another thread, I want to commend you for your efforts here, and in the legal argument thread. Here is my offering to this thread: have a pledge drive, like public broadcasting. I can hear people groaning but hear me out: appeal to the conscience of your fans. If you're stuggling financially tell them about your difficulties (without being too whiny), explain to them how you can't keep making the music they love if you're broke, and ask them to donate. If this works for public broadcasting it can work for you. You could give away special "thank you gifts" (rare songs, backstage passes, merchandise, and other things CaptainMorgan mentioned) to those who donate.
Dick Laurent is dead...
Normally I might mock tMod's post just because I am so directly attached to my own proposal. But in this case i just want to say as a collector that that kind of special crap he mentioned is gold to me and many others and can't be counterfeited satisfactorily, so it will work.
Keep eying which products you like that your songs might be good for though.
tMoD, thank you for your kind words.
If anyone doubts practacality of this wisdom here is a link for you. Rick Steves is a guy who sells travel books and produces a program on PBS called Rick Steves' travels in Europe. If you watch closely during pledge week, you will seeing him say, "Send in your money. Your donations help support programs like, Rick Steves, Travels in Europe"Originally posted by tMoD
CaptainMorgan, despite our disagreement in another thread, I want to commend you for your efforts here, and in the legal argument thread. Here is my offering to this thread: have a pledge drive, like public broadcasting. I can hear people groaning but hear me out:
He doesn't get alot of empathy from me. But, it seems to work on others.
NotBob, how about giving some ideas that don't benefit record execs. I think most of the ones I gave are in that catagory.
aqlo, you have reminded me of another one. Infocom who use to sell text adventure games. Used to give a ways trinkets in their game boxes. Usually they put some special piece of information on them, so the game could not be completed without it. It was an early, ineffective form of copy protection. People however started valuing these "trinkets" though. The also pioneered innovative box designs. I bought several game I had already completed using pirated versions, just to have an original copy.
I'm just a fictional character, in a story of a fictional conspiracy to destroy the digital copyright industry.
I admire a guy who uses our money to go to Germany to drink beer and France to eat......Originally posted by CaptainMorgan
tMoD, thank you for your kind words.
If anyone doubts practacality of this wisdom here is a link for you. Rick Steves is a guy who sells travel books and produces a program on PBS called Rick Steves' travels in Europe. If you watch closely during pledge week, you will seeing him say, "Send in your money. Your donations help support programs like, Rick Steves, Travels in Europe"
He doesn't get alot of empathy from me. But, it seems to work on others.
If artists are putting out their own material then there are no executives involved. Admittedly, for an unknown band there would be the problem of promotion. Established artists can get out of their contracts; through bankruptcy, lawsuits, fulfilling their obligations, etc.; and they should be able to do fine provided they have a way to get paid.Originally posted by notbob
there is no way to fund musicians without funding execs--you go to a live show, 9 times out of 10 it's linked to clear channel who in turn fund the riaa via the payola system. you buy an album, a chunk goes to execs. you use time warner cable or aol, a chunk goes to the riaa. you buy a sony dvd burner, money goes to the riaa
the only way to get rid of the execs is to not pay anyone until they are dead
Dick Laurent is dead...
What about this idea from the news article about the government taking the money from the ISPs and giving it directly to the artist and not the record-industry or copyright-agent or whatever? Did I read that right?
Dijo, sin embargo, que los ingresos deberían destinarse "a los artistas, no a las compañías discográficas."
-- Jorge
also on another note, the band Trapped sold their cd on the internet with a booklet that had autographs.. 8.00 and theirs no printing, no distributing, PURE PROFIT!.
Captain, clearly you are not a musician -- or at least do not try to survive on music. I have a house payment. 2 kids with dental and medical bills. Groceries to buy. a 10 year old car with car insurance bills. Home owner's insurance. Water bills. Electric bills. And a very tiny savings account that hasn't grown in years. I cannot make a living making political statements or getting Internet radio sations to pay me royalties. So let's talk about the real world. I write original music. I perform with my band. I try to sell CD's. But when I come out with a new CD, it is on Kaaza within 24 hours. I am told by many many fans that they have all my music on their MP3 players -- so they don't need a disk. Before P2P I would sell 30 or 40 disks at a small gig. Now I am lucky to sell 5 to 10. Sometimes none. My kids are going to college someday -- sooner than I like to think. How am I supposed to give them the education they deserve? Everytime someone downloads one of my songs, they hurt my kids. That is the real word Bub. That is why all the rationalization about how great P2P is for independent musicians is a crock of crap. I'm outa here.Originally posted by CaptainMorgan
I actually believe that there are many ways for musicians to earn a very nice living in the age of free file sharing. It is just that most of them have not been invented yet.
I am hoping this thread can be a place for constructively brainstorming these types of ideas.
Let me start with a few. Just to get people thinking.
Live Shows
1) Use mp3s to promote your live shows. Make every show interesting and different. Record each show make mp3s and give them away on the internet.
2) There is an industry of Grateful Dead fans that pay cover to go to every show and record the concerts because each show is different. Encourage this.
3) Sell backstage passes. Bands are cool. People love to party with the band. Make them buy your drinks.
Mp3s
1) Give your content free to internet radio stations. They will happy to not have to pay royalty fees. This is a significant advantage for unsigned bands like yours.
2) Mp3 files have ID3 tags that you can used to put interesting and valuable information, like your web site address.
3) Put your show schedule in the ID3 tags.
4) Add secret messages. Make subtle changes (versions) of your songs. Make them collectable. Release them at different times, like U.S. state quarters. Charge a small donation to download the rare versions from your web site.
5) Sell custom dedicated versions of songs.
Your Message
1) Sell your message. Are you a politically active band? Do you have a cause? Create a non-profit corporation to support this cause. Do good and pay yourself a salary. Promote your cause at your shoes.
2) Sell your ideas and attitude. Tell me that people thronged to see punk bands because of their artistry. Be different, sell different.
3) Sell other products that support your message. Sarcastic items are always a big seller. Offer special items only to people who attend your shows. I saw a band called "The Ringwalds" once and although I thought they were mediocre at best. There was a girl wearing a group t-shirt that said, "I can't believe I gave my panties to a geek." I would pay cover at another show just to buy that shirt, for my wife.
Web Site
1) Have an active community website. They are easy to create using free software and can be hosted for as little as $3 per month.
2) Sell things on your web site, besides CD's. CafePress with print T-shirts, mugs, lunch boxes, etc. on demand for you with zero set-up charge and no advanced overhead.
3) Have a members site. Ask for a small monthly fee. Be interesting and give people a look into your world. Musicians are cool.
4) Take part in associates programs. These programs pay you money if you refer customers to them and they buy things. It is free and can make you some extra cash.
5) Have your own associates program. Let other people promote your goods in exchange for a small commission.
Plastic Discs
If you are still intend on selling the actual round pieces plastic. There are many things you can do to make people want to buy them.
1) Full disclosure seems to be a popular idea on this site. Publish on the outside of the CD your rational for the price. For instance, "I worked on this for 6 months, I am printing 1000 copies. The cost is $x.xx. I have these expenses: graphic artist, $xxx.xx; recording engineer, $xxx.xx; manufacturing and printing, $xxx.xx; musician's salary, $xxx.xx; Stress the people this sale will benefit. Don't whine. Pick your price and explain it. People with respect it even if it is too high.
2) If your costs are high. Encourage people to pool their money, buy one CD and make copies for themselves.
3) Don't make them round. You can have CD's made in all sorts of clever shapes. Make them collectors items. Give them holograms.
4) Make them DVD audio disks, it is the next big thing.
5) Make them enhanced CDs. Give people some clever extra content.
I could probably go on longer, but now it is someone else's turn.
CaptainMorgan
This thread is nice, and useful, for musicians. But should it not be expanded to include the other copyright-reliant folks, like writers? Many of the suggestions would work wonders for a musician (although not many would be that great for a studio musician), but few if any would help a writer very much, and their work is in some ways even easier to proliferate (it's smaller and easier to transfer, yet at the same time takes significantly longer to create).
Just because the RIAA are the ones currently firing off the lawsuits doesn't mean that writers and book publishers aren't being affected. Just not as much...yet. And it's doubtful, of course, that anyone could demonize the book publishers like the RIAA, because book publishers' clients (the authors) have always tended to be on the right side of the IQ bell curve and simply would never accept a writer-screwing contract.
In any case, don't forget about the writers. I like to read as much as I listen to music. In fact, I read quite a bit more than I listen to music, and I'm sure that while that's not "normal" it's probably not all that exceptional either.
"The only difference between a dead skunk lying in the road and a dead lawyer lying in the road is that there are skid marks around the skunk." -- Patrick Murray
I am not a Musician. (Deja Vu)Originally posted by Thalus999
Captain, clearly you are not a musician -- or at least do not try to survive on music. I have a house payment. 2 kids with dental and medical bills. Groceries to buy. a 10 year old car with car insurance bills. Home owner's insurance. Water bills. Electric bills. And a very tiny savings account that hasn't grown in years.
I do however have a brother in your situation. He is a professional musician. Has been since high school. I actually mean "professional" here not talented. Like you he also has never worked a day job, ever. He actually petitioned to graduate high school early, so that he could go on the road with a touring band. For four years he toured clubs that he was not even old enough to be in. He is one of the most talented musicians I have ever seen anywhere. Period. He has his own followers.
It is 14 years since he left to take his first professional road gig. He has still never had a "day job". He has a house, but no kids. He has very little money. He even has lots of boot leg computer software and other media as he is too poor to pay for the things he want to have in order to create his art.
In his case, he is poor for one reason and one reason alone. He pays zero effort to trying to make money using ways that actually WILL make money. He spends lots of time trying to make money in ways that he WANTS to make money. He thinks that he SHOULD be able to make money using the methods he wants to use. His methods are not unreasonably. In his utopia they WOULD work. However, no one else seems to care about this. They simply get no VALUE from what he is offering. It is not that they do not like his music or his effort. They just see no value in his PRODUCT.
Don't get me wrong, though there are 1000 reasons to envy my brother. He is a great human being, people love him including me. He gets to spend 100% of his time doing what he wants and loves. He does not love or want to do business. He does not want to spend energy analysing different possibilities obtaining value from his work. If he could make five times the money, by spending 20% of his time thinking about ways to make money, I think he would still pass. That is time waisted to him.
Thalus999, thank you for adding your view point to this thread. I think that many of the people on this site would like to help people like you.
On this thread, I am hoping people will suggest a way that provides value to both you and your perspective customers.
I'm just a fictional character, in a story of a fictional conspiracy to destroy the digital copyright industry.
Thalus999 -
I'm not a musician, so I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes. But I can say that I know how it feels to struggle. Everyone here gave alot of good ideas. I know it's easier said than done, but I guess you don't know until you try, right? I think alot of people here are completely discusted with the RIAA, but really want to support the musicians they like. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I would donate if there were ways to go around the RIAA.... :)
Jesus Christ, stop your whining. What - playing guitar doesn't pay your bills? Then get a *****n JOB like the rest of us. Do you see me whining that my "computer gaming career" doesn't pay off?Originally posted by Thalus999
Captain, clearly you are not a musician -- or at least do not try to survive on music. I have a house payment. 2 kids with dental and medical bills. Groceries to buy. a 10 year old car with car insurance bills. Home owner's insurance. Water bills. Electric bills. And a very tiny savings account that hasn't grown in years. I cannot make a living making political statements or getting Internet radio sations to pay me royalties. So let's talk about the real world. I write original music. I perform with my band. I try to sell CD's. But when I come out with a new CD, it is on Kaaza within 24 hours. I am told by many many fans that they have all my music on their MP3 players -- so they don't need a disk. Before P2P I would sell 30 or 40 disks at a small gig. Now I am lucky to sell 5 to 10. Sometimes none. My kids are going to college someday -- sooner than I like to think. How am I supposed to give them the education they deserve? Everytime someone downloads one of my songs, they hurt my kids. That is the real word Bub. That is why all the rationalization about how great P2P is for independent musicians is a crock of crap. I'm outa here.
If you work for 8 hrs and sleep for another 8 hrs you still got 6-7 hrs to do whatever you please. If that's not making music then it's probably not worth making anyways.
Sorry for the rant.
I'm not a real musician, just a drummer. But I can make money just by saying I'm having a fundraiser and i won't stop playing until I have enough to buy a bottle. Also people give me free fruit and vegetables to help me through the hard times.
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