Just A Threat From The RIAA THats All nothing is going to happen I Hope!

[mp3master1215]

We I think its just a threat i dont think there fgoing to sue any of us. they were sopposed to sue people today but they didnt. You see what im saying there just saying stuff just to get there way.

[ATLien]

Originally posted by mp3master1215
We I think its just a threat i dont think there fgoing to sue any of us. they were sopposed to sue people today but they didnt. You see what im saying there just saying stuff just to get there way.

Just stop being Paranoid, and kept d/ling and shareing.

[goglakas]

Let me add a little light to this discussion. I am a copyright attorney, so I can answer questions you might have.

First of all, I know for a fact that the RIAA does indeed intend to sue pirates. They will start with those with the largest number of files first, but they may mix in a variety of defendants. Remember, this is intended to send a message, not make a lot of money.

Second, filing a lawsuit is the simplest thing a lawyer can do. It takes very little time and is very inexpensive. All you do is prepare a Complaint naming the defendants. It can name many defendants in a single Complaint. Defendants can be added leter when they are discovered.

Third, the Internet is quite transparent. IP addresses are always available since the nature of P2P is to go to an IP address to grab files. The law is strict and specific. The ISP MUST identify the owner of an IP address. Copyright law says the owner of a copyrighted work is ENTITLED to a MINIMUM of $50,000 per infringement, which may be trebled (X3) for willful infringement. Two copies is two infringements. You do the math.

The record industry (which I DO NOT WORK FOR) is in deep trouble and desperate. In my opinion, they will do anything right now to stop piracy. This includes suing thousands of file swappers.

If you have any questions about the law, please feel free to post them and I will do my best to answer. I sure would hate to see you kids get burdened with a lifetime of debt because someone told you on a bulletin board that there is nothing to worry about. Trust me, there is lots to worry about.

[Serps]

How are they going to prove that the songs they think you have are the actual songs and not misnamed files.

[d-koolest]

Am I (probably) safe as long as I'm not sharing a ton of data? I know there are people here who share hundreds of gigs, will they get shot down first? Or is the RIAA just sort of desperately swinging at everyone, trying to make the lawsuits seem random?

[mp3master1215]

Originally posted by goglakas
Let me add a little light to this discussion. I am a copyright attorney, so I can answer questions you might have.

First of all, I know for a fact that the RIAA does indeed intend to sue pirates. They will start with those with the largest number of files first, but they may mix in a variety of defendants. Remember, this is intended to send a message, not make a lot of money.

Second, filing a lawsuit is the simplest thing a lawyer can do. It takes very little time and is very inexpensive. All you do is prepare a Complaint naming the defendants. It can name many defendants in a single Complaint. Defendants can be added leter when they are discovered.

Third, the Internet is quite transparent. IP addresses are always available since the nature of P2P is to go to an IP address to grab files. The law is strict and specific. The ISP MUST identify the owner of an IP address. Copyright law says the owner of a copyrighted work is ENTITLED to a MINIMUM of $50,000 per infringement, which may be trebled (X3) for willful infringement. Two copies is two infringements. You do the math.

The record industry (which I DO NOT WORK FOR) is in deep trouble and desperate. In my opinion, they will do anything right now to stop piracy. This includes suing thousands of file swappers.

If you have any questions about the law, please feel free to post them and I will do my best to answer. I sure would hate to see you kids get burdened with a lifetime of debt because someone told you on a bulletin board that there is nothing to worry about. Trust me, there is lots to worry about.

im not worried why should i be thats what the RIAA want you to be, but im not.

[eruhk]

Originally posted by goglakas
Let me add a little light to this discussion. I am a copyright attorney, so I can answer questions you might have.

First of all, I know for a fact that the RIAA does indeed intend to sue pirates. They will start with those with the largest number of files first, but they may mix in a variety of defendants. Remember, this is intended to send a message, not make a lot of money.

Second, filing a lawsuit is the simplest thing a lawyer can do. It takes very little time and is very inexpensive. All you do is prepare a Complaint naming the defendants. It can name many defendants in a single Complaint. Defendants can be added leter when they are discovered.

Third, the Internet is quite transparent. IP addresses are always available since the nature of P2P is to go to an IP address to grab files. The law is strict and specific. The ISP MUST identify the owner of an IP address. Copyright law says the owner of a copyrighted work is ENTITLED to a MINIMUM of $50,000 per infringement, which may be trebled (X3) for willful infringement. Two copies is two infringements. You do the math.

The record industry (which I DO NOT WORK FOR) is in deep trouble and desperate. In my opinion, they will do anything right now to stop piracy. This includes suing thousands of file swappers.

If you have any questions about the law, please feel free to post them and I will do my best to answer. I sure would hate to see you kids get burdened with a lifetime of debt because someone told you on a bulletin board that there is nothing to worry about. Trust me, there is lots to worry about.

here's a question: is a simple record of a successful search for a filename that might be an riaa protected artist linked to an ip address really enough to prosecute someone with?

[klgray]

Originally posted by d-koolest
Am I (probably) safe as long as I'm not sharing a ton of data? I know there are people here who share hundreds of gigs, will they get shot down first? Or is the RIAA just sort of desperately swinging at everyone, trying to make the lawsuits seem random?

He did mentnion that they are going for those who have huge shares, but that they may pick up those with smaller shares too - all being done to create an example for others.

I think people will start getting scared when their own peers are getting sued. I don't think you'll find out who's getting sued right away either. I heard somewhere that results won't be ready until after a month or so. Who knows, maybe it IS just another "false" warning or tactick to make us scared.

[FileHoover]

I am an experienced TCP/IP programmer and will tell you what is technically possible for the RIAA to do.

Let's start with the easy people to pick off. That is called "low hanging fruit".

The easiest targets for lawsuits are people who are sharing on open source networks. Gnutella, Bittorrent, Edonkey. Why? Because RIAA programmers have access to source code and can build automated search tools to gather information on these people. It requires little human intervention except to write the code and then verify that a person is really sharing a real copyrighted file. The tool could search and automatically download the file for humans to come to work in the morning and view. If the file is a copyrighted file, the users ip address and all relevant info is logged for lawsuit.

The next easiest are closed source networks, that display user's ip addresses. RIAA scans for "Madonna, American Life". Gets hundreds of hits. Downloads them all and checks each. Writes down the ip address, subpoena's the ISP and bingo, that user is Tagged and Bagged.

The next easiest are networks that do not encrypt their transfers. For example, Kazaa doesn't display the user ip in their program, but finding out the users ip address is trivial with tcpdump. Here is a download I just tried (sorry if this is your ip address)

14:30:37.179231 192.168.128.50.4320 > 65.50.165.244.1214: P 1:384(383) ack 1 win 64240 (DF)
0x0000 4500 01a7 4d06 4000 8006 8449 c0a8 8032 E...M.@....I...2
0x0010 4132 a5f4 10e0 04be e095 2670 7fb2 d69d A2........&p....
0x0020 5018 faf0 9232 0000 4745 5420 2f2e 6861 P....2..GET./.ha
0x0030 7368 3d64 3932 6434 6139 6135 3964 3132 sh=d92d4a9a59d12
0x0040 6261 6333 6537 3136 3330 3963 3730 3666 bac3e716309c706f
0x0050 3233 6236 3562 6634 3536 3820 4854 5450 23b65bf4568.HTTP
0x0060 2f31 2e31 0d0a 486f 7374 3a20 3635 2e35 /1.1..Host:.65.5
0x0070 302e 3136 352e 3234 343a 3132 3134 0d0a 0.165.244:1214..
0x0080 5573 6572 4167 656e 743a 204b 617a 6161 UserAgent:.Kazaa
0x0090 436c 6965 6e74 204e 6f76 2020 3320 3230 Client.Nov..3.20
0x00a0 3032 2032 303a 3239 3a30 330d 0a58 2d4b 02.20:29:03..X-K
0x00b0 617a 6161 2d55 7365 726e 616d 653a 2077 azaa-Username:.w
0x00c0 7777 2e6b 2d6c 6974 652e 746b 5f4b 617a ww.k-lite.tk_Kaz
0x00d0 6161 5f4c 6974 650d 0a58 2d4b 617a 6161 aa_Lite..X-Kazaa
0x00e0 2d4e 6574 776f 726b 3a20 4b61 5a61 410d -Network:.KaZaA.
0x00f0 0a58 2d4b 617a 6161 2d49 503a 2031 3932 .X-Kazaa-IP:.192
0x0100 2e31 3638 2e31 3238 2e35 303a 3132 3134 .168.128.50:1214
0x0110 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 612d 5375 7065 726e ..X-Kazaa-Supern
0x0120 6f64 6549 503a 2036 352e 3235 2e39 322e odeIP:.65.25.92.
0x0130 3233 373a 3236 3537 0d0a 436f 6e6e 6563 237:2657..Connec
0x0140 7469 6f6e 3a20 636c 6f73 650d 0a58 2d4b tion:.close..X-K
0x0150 617a 6161 2d58 6665 7249 643a 2033 3931 azaa-XferId:.391
0x0160 3938 3537 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 612d 5866 9857..X-Kazaa-Xf
0x0170 6572 5569 643a 2078 394a 6831 4249 6e69 erUid:.x9Jh1BIni
0x0180 3950 6c31 5a37 2f55 3762 7659 7162 3030 9Pl1Z7/U7bvYqb00
0x0190 6d4a 476e 7a36 7072 7768 5944 3638 776f mJGnz6prwhYD68wo
0x01a0 3841 3d0d 0a0d 0a 8A=....
14:30:37.179231 208.179.251.98.63184 > 65.50.165.244.1214: P 0:383(383) ack 1 win 64240 (DF)
0x0000 4500 01a7 4d06 4000 7f06 fa0d d0b3 fb62 E...M.@........b
0x0010 4132 a5f4 f6d0 04be e095 2670 7fb2 d69d A2........&p....
0x0020 5018 faf0 2106 0000 4745 5420 2f2e 6861 P...!...GET./.ha
0x0030 7368 3d64 3932 6434 6139 6135 3964 3132 sh=d92d4a9a59d12
0x0040 6261 6333 6537 3136 3330 3963 3730 3666 bac3e716309c706f
0x0050 3233 6236 3562 6634 3536 3820 4854 5450 23b65bf4568.HTTP
0x0060 2f31 2e31 0d0a 486f 7374 3a20 3635 2e35 /1.1..Host:.65.5
0x0070 302e 3136 352e 3234 343a 3132 3134 0d0a 0.165.244:1214..
0x0080 5573 6572 4167 656e 743a 204b 617a 6161 UserAgent:.Kazaa
0x0090 436c 6965 6e74 204e 6f76 2020 3320 3230 Client.Nov..3.20
0x00a0 3032 2032 303a 3239 3a30 330d 0a58 2d4b 02.20:29:03..X-K
0x00b0 617a 6161 2d55 7365 726e 616d 653a 2077 azaa-Username:.w
0x00c0 7777 2e6b 2d6c 6974 652e 746b 5f4b 617a ww.k-lite.tk_Kaz
0x00d0 6161 5f4c 6974 650d 0a58 2d4b 617a 6161 aa_Lite..X-Kazaa
0x00e0 2d4e 6574 776f 726b 3a20 4b61 5a61 410d -Network:.KaZaA.
0x00f0 0a58 2d4b 617a 6161 2d49 503a 2031 3932 .X-Kazaa-IP:.192
0x0100 2e31 3638 2e31 3238 2e35 303a 3132 3134 .168.128.50:1214
0x0110 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 612d 5375 7065 726e ..X-Kazaa-Supern
0x0120 6f64 6549 503a 2036 352e 3235 2e39 322e odeIP:.65.25.92.
0x0130 3233 373a 3236 3537 0d0a 436f 6e6e 6563 237:2657..Connec
0x0140 7469 6f6e 3a20 636c 6f73 650d 0a58 2d4b tion:.close..X-K
0x0150 617a 6161 2d58 6665 7249 643a 2033 3931 azaa-XferId:.391
0x0160 3938 3537 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 612d 5866 9857..X-Kazaa-Xf
0x0170 6572 5569 643a 2078 394a 6831 4249 6e69 erUid:.x9Jh1BIni
0x0180 3950 6c31 5a37 2f55 3762 7659 7162 3030 9Pl1Z7/U7bvYqb00
0x0190 6d4a 476e 7a36 7072 7768 5944 3638 776f mJGnz6prwhYD68wo
0x01a0 3841 3d0d 0a0d 0a 8A=....
14:30:37.569231 65.50.165.244.1214 > 192.168.128.50.4320: . 1:1461(1460) ack 384 win 17137 (DF)
0x0000 4500 05dc 64a1 4000 7106 7779 4132 a5f4 E...d.@.q.wyA2..
0x0010 c0a8 8032 04be 10e0 7fb2 d69d e095 27ef ...2..........'.
0x0020 5010 42f1 3979 0000 4854 5450 2f31 2e31 P.B.9y..HTTP/1.1
0x0030 2032 3030 204f 4b0d 0a43 6f6e 7465 6e74 .200.OK..Content
0x0040 2d4c 656e 6774 683a 2033 3439 3235 3731 -Length:.3492571
0x0050 0d0a 4163 6365 7074 2d52 616e 6765 733a ..Accept-Ranges:
0x0060 2062 7974 6573 0d0a 4461 7465 3a20 5361 .bytes..Date:.Sa
0x0070 742c 2032 3820 4a75 6e20 3230 3033 2030 t,.28.Jun.2003.0
0x0080 303a 3338 3a33 3220 474d 540d 0a53 6572 0:38:32.GMT..Ser
0x0090 7665 723a 204b 617a 6161 436c 6965 6e74 ver:.KazaaClient
0x00a0 2053 6570 2031 3620 3230 3032 2032 333a .Sep.16.2002.23:
0x00b0 3539 3a34 330d 0a43 6f6e 6e65 6374 696f 59:43..Connectio
0x00c0 6e3a 2063 6c6f 7365 0d0a 4c61 7374 2d4d n:.close..Last-M
0x00d0 6f64 6966 6965 643a 2046 7269 2c20 3039 odified:.Fri,.09
0x00e0 2041 7567 2032 3030 3220 3036 3a35 313a .Aug.2002.06:51:
0x00f0 3432 2047 4d54 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 612d 42.GMT..X-Kazaa-
0x0100 5573 6572 6e61 6d65 3a20 736d 6f6f 7468 Username:.smooth
0x0110 6f70 6572 6174 6f72 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 operator..X-Kaza
0x0120 612d 4e65 7477 6f72 6b3a 204b 615a 6141 a-Network:.KaZaA
0x0130 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 612d 4950 3a20 3635 ..X-Kazaa-IP:.65
0x0140 2e35 302e 3136 352e 3234 343a 3132 3134 .50.165.244:1214
0x0150 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 612d 5375 7065 726e ..X-Kazaa-Supern
0x0160 6f64 6549 503a 2036 352e 3235 2e39 322e odeIP:.65.25.92.
0x0170 3233 373a 3236 3537 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 237:2657..X-Kaza
0x0180 6154 6167 3a20 353d 3234 390d 0a58 2d4b aTag:.5=249..X-K
0x0190 617a 6161 5461 673a 2032 313d 3131 320d azaaTag:.21=112.
0x01a0 0a58 2d4b 617a 6161 5461 673a 2036 3d4d .X-KazaaTag:.6=M
0x01b0 6164 6f6e 6e61 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 6154 adonna..X-KazaaT
0x01c0 6167 3a20 343d 5061 7061 2044 6f6e 7420 ag:.4=Papa.Dont.
0x01d0 5072 6561 6368 0d0a 582d 4b61 7a61 6154 Preach..X-KazaaT
0x01e0 6167 3a20 333d 3d32 5331 4b6d 6c6e 524b ag:.3==2S1KmlnRK
0x01f0 3677 2b63 574d 4a78 7762 794f 3257 2f52 6w+cWMJxwbyO2W/R
0x0200 5767 3d0d 0a43 6f6e 7465 6e74 2d54 7970 Wg=..Content-Typ
0x0210 653a 2061 7564 696f 2f6d 7065 670d 0a0d e:.audio/mpeg...
0x0220 0aff fb80 4400 0001 af1b c781 8962 4030 ....D........b@0
0x0230 4308 f025 8648 07cc 1f61 47b0 6291 0202 C..%.H...aG.b...
0x0240 ac34 c60c 4a32 3d36 44a9 6990 fa11 8460 .4..J2=6D.i....`
0x0250 413b 1ac9 a1c1 391a 9195 a454 546a 361f A;....9....TTj6.

Notice EVERyTHING about the user, his ip address, id and lots more is displayed. This user is Tagged and Bagged.

The next easiest, well, I think now we enter the HARD programs to track. I say programs but there is only one p2p that encrypts its transfers by default. About all you can do is, find a file, then download and then watch what ip address gets connected to. You really cannot be sure what that connection really is but you can make a pretty good guess that the ip address all the encrypted traffic is coming from, is the source of the file you are downloading. But is that enough information to be worth sueing you? Would a jury be convinced? Is it worth the risk when there are millions of "low hanging fruit" users out there? Uh, no. So at this point, you are getting pretty safe sharing files. But wait! There is more! If you order now, within the next 15 minutes we will send you .....

The next hardest program, er, is THE program, the ONLY program that uses proxies to transfer. With this program, you send 12 encrypted UDP requests to 12 randomly chosen bouncers. Each of those may or may not relay that request to the actual holder of the file. The holder of the file, getting the bounced request, sends you the file via an Anonymous Internet Proxy. At no time was the ip address of the actual holder of the file ever directly talked to. Only one p2p file sharing app does that, and it is not Freenet. Freenet uses its own users as proxies making each a target for search and seizure, even if the user does not actually have the file, the judge will sign the search warrant based upon prima facia evidence. Sure, you may not have the file, but you'll have the Marshall and the RIAA goons tromping through your house, confiscating your computer as evidence and they'll probably find SOMETHING on there that will land you in hot water. With the program I am talking about, the proxy ip address is in China, or Mongolia or Indonesia (the exact address YOU determine when you set up you proxies from huge lists that we give you).

Now you tell me, what kind of idiot would continue to use old style p2p programs?

[ronniebravo]

I think that.......wait a minute someone's at the door........ OH NO JACK BOOTED THUGS......SWAT....AHHHHHH......DON'T TAKE MY CD'S AHHHHHH!!!!!!!..............WAIT.................. ..........................NO...................... .........NO................NOT MY COMPUTER TOO........................................................help me

[atari_galaga]

Originally posted by ronniebravo
I think that.......wait a minute someone's at the door........ OH NO JACK BOOTED THUGS......SWAT....AHHHHHH......DON'T TAKE MY CD'S AHHHHHH!!!!!!!..............WAIT.................. ..........................NO...................... .........NO................NOT MY COMPUTER TOO........................................................help me

lol....that was too funny

[Wolfie]

Originally posted by ronniebravo
I think that.......wait a minute someone's at the door........ OH NO JACK BOOTED THUGS......SWAT....AHHHHHH......DON'T TAKE MY CD'S AHHHHHH!!!!!!!..............WAIT.................. ..........................NO...................... .........NO................NOT MY COMPUTER TOO........................................................help me

Someone take him too, please. ;-)

[d-koolest]

Originally posted by FileHoover

The next easiest, well, I think now we enter the HARD programs to track. I say programs but there is only one p2p that encrypts its transfers by default. About all you can do is, find a file, then download and then watch what ip address gets connected to. You really cannot be sure what that connection really is but you can make a pretty good guess that the ip address all the encrypted traffic is coming from, is the source of the file you are downloading. But is that enough information to be worth sueing you? Would a jury be convinced? Is it worth the risk when there are millions of "low hanging fruit" users out there? Uh, no. So at this point, you are getting pretty safe sharing files. But wait! There is more! If you order now, within the next 15 minutes we will send you .....

The next hardest program, er, is THE program, the ONLY program that uses proxies to transfer. With this program, you send 12 encrypted UDP requests to 12 randomly chosen bouncers. Each of those may or may not relay that request to the actual holder of the file. The holder of the file, getting the bounced request, sends you the file via an Anonymous Internet Proxy. At no time was the ip address of the actual holder of the file ever directly talked to. Only one p2p file sharing app does that, and it is not Freenet. Freenet uses its own users as proxies making each a target for search and seizure, even if the user does not actually have the file, the judge will sign the search warrant based upon prima facia evidence. Sure, you may not have the file, but you'll have the Marshall and the RIAA goons tromping through your house, confiscating your computer as evidence and they'll probably find SOMETHING on there that will land you in hot water. With the program I am talking about, the proxy ip address is in China, or Mongolia or Indonesia (the exact address YOU determine when you set up you proxies from huge lists that we give you).

Now you tell me, what kind of idiot would continue to use old style p2p programs?

What are these wonderful programs you speak of?

[Sosua]

I have a good advise for you.

Download your music from sites on the internet (Full Album sites) there is plenty of them. You wont have to use the P2P because you will get the music before they hit the P2P.

Also a very good protection is to go to the RIAA site---http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/

There you will be able to check if the cds is protected by the RIAA.

The good thing about it is the NEW ones are rarely there since you get the cd before it hits the store, so just note the date that you look for it and you have the best defense in the world.

THE CD WAS NOT RIAA PROTECTED WHEN I CHECKED ON THAT DATE ON YOUR SITE.


THATS ALL

[goglakas]

Originally posted by Serps
How are they going to prove that the songs they think you have are the actual songs and not misnamed files.

The bots hunting down pirated properties do not just rely on the file names, but examine the contents of the file. There are several companies that do this work for digital rights property owners and their tools are extremely sophisticated. If you can find a song you are looking for, so can the digital rights enforcement companies.