Reasons why newsgroups are safe

[Mels_Smileys45]

I just wanted to ask a few questions as Im always hearing how usenet will always be safe and such.

1) Why do people say usenet servers will always be around? Is there no way for the law or other body to step in and shut them down?

2) How safe are the people who upload the content? Same as above, could these people be set up and busted? I know its been done with porno, why not other media?

3) Do you think the fast growing popularity of usenet will cause trouble in the future?


Please, I do not want any flaming. I only want to hear straight answers.

[Dark Messenger]

Originally Posted by Mels_Smileys45

I just wanted to ask a few questions as Im always hearing how usenet will always be safe and such.

1) Why do people say usenet servers will always be around? Is there no way for the law or other body to step in and shut them down?

2) How safe are the people who upload the content? Same as above, could these people be set up and busted? I know its been done with porno, why not other media?

3) Do you think the fast growing popularity of usenet will cause trouble in the future?


Please, I do not want any flaming. I only want to hear straight answers.

Jeez, I buy into this -->I do not want any flaming<-- line every time.

okay

A1)yea, the law could do that but because the retention isn't permanent by the time any legal action was taken the offending files would already have been removed from the server and the data house on the server is a bazillion 'text' messages which in that state are useless to anyone. kinda think of it like having charcoal, sulfur and whatever the other ingredient is to make gunpowder but no gunpowder or eggs, milk, sugar, flour, vanilla flavor but no cake.

2) The people who upload through premium usenet services are pretty safe providing they aren't uploading kiddy porn or anything deemed offensive of that nature. As with all things if you do something bad enough it ain't that hard to track you down. With 'other things' do you mean pirated copies of the windows OS, new hollywood movies or music by billboard artists?

The only thing protecting uploaders of that type of content is lol using premium usenet service providers *pay close attention now* who don't monitor --->b[DOWNLOADS[/b]<--- did you catch that? LOL read it again...they don't monitor downloads never mentioned anything about not monitoring what you've uploaded did they?

3) the what? LOL its as old prostitution...that hasn't been stopped either..rotfl


there I didn't flame.

[corey93]

they arent free but worth the money

[Shadowtester]

I love Usenet for downloading DVD movies never have a problem maxing out my dsl connection and no share ratio to worry about. If you do start using Usenet and nzb's learn about par2's as well they can be a very good friend on a 4+gig download. Also when your looking at a premium Usenet provider check the number of connections that are allowed and the binary file retention its not hard to get 50 or more days retention now on a premium provider the longer the retention the easier it will be to get complete file sets.

[Miniver]

1. Usenet has been around since the 70's. It is a huge decentralized network of servers which makes it extremely difficult to completely eradicate. Servers are everywhere.

2. Those who upload could face legal troubles. I've never seen it but it wouldn't be that hard depending on what server it is uploaded to. For instance, I wouldn't upload to my verizon server. Only the inital server uploaded to can tell who sent it. Simple answer, don't upload. There are already plenty of release groups that fulfill practically any need. I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for downloading from usenet.

3. No.

[asymmetric]

2) from Giganews' legal page:

[

Giganews cooperates fully with law enforcement agencies, yet there must still be a court order before Giganews surrenders customer information. The Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution requires a court order to conduct a search and seizure. Giganews will, when requested by law enforcement entities, acknowledge the existence of personal customer information, and when requested, provide the technical language to include in the court order, "particularly describing ... the property to be seized." In a criminal investigation Giganews is under a duty not to divulge the fact of the investigation to the customer.

From Giganews' FAQ

# Does Giganews keep track of what I download/upload, and what is the Giganews 'privacy policy'?

Giganews does not track the specific articles you download; however, we will track the volume of your downloads for account maintenance and download limit enforcement purposes (if applicable).

All Usenet posts posted through any of Giganews' global Usenet clusters are tagged with an "XTrace" identification tag in the header. This tag is an internal tag which Giganews can use internally to identify the person who has posted any article through our servers. We use this information to identify abusers and to help control Spam.

Giganews does not release any customer information, for any reason, unless specific information is identified and requested by court order. We invite you to review our Privacy Policy.

the last quote would not make me feel very safe, in case i was an uploader..

[carpefile]

Originally Posted by asymmetric

2) from Giganews' legal page:

[

From Giganews' FAQ



the last quote would not make me feel very safe, in case i was an uploader..

Me neither, but then again, most people aren't uploaders. Most real usenet uploaders are in some kind of release group, for whatever type.
Generally the machines they use to upload are hijacked and there's quite a bit of obfuscation between them and usenet.
Don't be an uploader unless you know wtf you are doing.
But downloading...........yummy.

[charlesmelissa]

1. Usenet (newsgroups) serve a legitimate academic and communication purpose. It is like mIRC, it is not for file sharing. There is no way to legally attack it as "inducement" or any other of the areas usually persued. I just will not happen. That would be like trying to sue the manufacturers of CD's and DVD's to stop piracy, it just won't flush. I was using usnet before Napster. I well remember the Gopher (Go For) command. Before HTML there was usenet.

2. Downloading is not monitored on most servers although you must be more careful with uploading. If you Google usenet, you will get a lot of hits, choose one that you can secure if you need to and does not log uploads. As far as the set up and bust, Usenet posts are not normally placed in response to requests. If you requested a movie, I would not post it to you, I would post it to the newsgroup and it would go to everyone and spread out around the world. It is the ultimate file sharing. There are no limits or ratios. You post, and anyone anywhere can download when they want to.

3. I am not sure what theory the MPAA and the RIAA will try to attack Usenet for file sharing- they can't even figure that one out yet. They tried an infringement suit against newsbinz, but that didn't work. Newsbinz is an Index site, like torrentspy of isohunt for news groups.

If you are ahead of the game, you are already using newsgroups to download. Give it a try, YOUR isp provides you with a news server- nttp.YourISP.com already. That is how I learned about it. Then I went to a yearly paid account, now I am using a non-expiring block account and buying downloads by the 100Gig at a time. It is a lot faster, no hastle, no file sharing problems, and no headaches.

[asymmetric]

Originally Posted by charlesmelissa

1. Usenet (newsgroups) serve a legitimate academic and communication purpose. It is like mIRC, it is not for file sharing.

even kazaa could be used for legal purposes. that didn't save it tho!

That would be like trying to sue the manufacturers of CD's and DVD's to stop piracy, it just won't flush.

that's exactly what happened in italy (and all of europe maybe): they put a tax on recordable media, such as dvds and cds, and that money goes to the SIAE, which is the italian equivalent for RIAA.

They tried an infringement suit against newsbinz, but that didn't work. Newsbinz is an Index site, like torrentspy of isohunt for news groups.

indexing sites have been brought down and closed many times in the past: suprnova, sharereactor, and many others. and isohunt and torrentspy had to put up an automated system for content removal, making them practically useless and untrustworthy.

imho, there's absolutely no guarantee that usenet as we know it will keep on existing, especially because of its being based on a very limited number of companies that make money on piracy (let's face it, no one gets a giganews account for anything else than downloading pirated stuff).

[Kythe]

Originally Posted by asymmetric

that's exactly what happened in italy (and all of europe maybe): they put a tax on recordable media, such as dvds and cds, and that money goes to the SIAE, which is the italian equivalent for RIAA.

The difference, though, is that Usenet's primary purpose is the posting of text messages. It's basically the world's biggest -- and one of the oldest -- bulletin boards.

There's a world of difference between going after Usenet and going after Kazaa. Attacking Usenet would be like attacking the telephone system. It's not viable.

Much better to 1) post fake files (Media Defender tactic) and 2) go after uploaders. For most of us, though, Usenet's about as safe as you can get. You don't have to upload at the same time, and downloading is very difficult to track without the direct help of the providers themselves.

[troyk1]

wow thanks for all this info.... I've tried to google this stuff and have found it hard to find any real useful information...

[Zombieman123]

I'd use this if there wasn't a monthly fee.

[RoninRonin]

Don't most people that get sued by the RIAA or some other four letter word because they are sharing the files. I would think it would be harder for them to successfully sue people that only download.

And is there any benefit to using a usenet provider that offers encrypted downloads?

:icon_rabb

[Malware]

ya the monthly fee kills it for me, but as long as your not uploading, then its about as safe as anything else

[1cooldude]

Mel, if you read this article i don't think Usenet is as safe as people make it sound! While, it's been flying under the "radar" for a while, the amount of traffic has grown substiantilly, enough to raise the interest of MPAA and RIAA. That, can not be very good for anyone who is strictly using it for d/ls. I, myself use the protocol quite a bit but then i also use torrent and some newer methods. :D

The RIAA Attacks Usenet

Basking in glory after orchestrating a record punishment for a petty file-sharer in the US, the RIAA takes its legal campaign to the next level. Many may want newsgroups to stay under the radar but it’s too late - major labels have filed a copyright infringement lawsuit against Usenet.com and it won’t be going away.

In an ideal world, people would not talk about Usenet. In an ideal world there would be no such things as copyright infringement lawsuits. Sadly, we do not live in an ideal world.

Today we simply have to talk about Usenet and we have to talk about lawsuits.

Major record labels - Arista, Atlantic, BMG, Capitol, Caroline, Elektra, Interscope, LaFace, Maverick, Sony BMG, UMG, Virgin, Warner Bros. and Zomba have filed a copyright infringement lawsuit against Usenet.com.

According to Billboard, the complaint filed in the District Court in New York states that Usenet.com provides access to millions of copyright infringing files and, with a nod towards the Grokster Decision, apparently “touts its service as a haven for those seeking pirated content.”

During the Grokster court case, it was ruled that even if a service or tool has substantial non-infringing uses, its owners would be liable for the infringing activities of its customers, should it be deemed that they encouraged their customers to commit copyright infringement. The complaint says that Usenet.com encourages its customers to commit copyright infringement and furthermore, facilitates such actions with its infrastructure.

Therefore it’s no surprise that the lawsuit seems to hang on statements allegedly made by Usenet.com to their customers, claiming that they told them their service is “the best way to get ‘free’ music now that ‘file sharing websites are getting shut down.”

Usenet.com does state that it’s possible to get increased levels of privacy by using their extra ‘anonymous’ service: “Shh… Quiet! We believe it’s no one’s business but your own what you do on the Internet or in Usenet! We don’t log your activity. We don’t track your downloads, and neither can your ISP when you use Secure-Tunnel.com privacy package.” However, helping to ensure the privacy of your customers does not equal encouragement to commit copyright infringement and right at this moment, there doesn’t appear to be any other text on the site that would make Usenet.com fall foul of the Grokster Decision. More details should follow in due course.

The lawsuit states that despite repeated requests by the labels for Usenet.com to remove infringing content, Usenet.com continued to fill its servers with infringing material from the Usenet network and then charges its users for access. It’s claimed that many of the groups offered by Usenet.com have no other use other than to disseminate copyright works and are “explicitly dedicated to copyright infringement.”

The labels want Usenet.com to admit they are committing copyright infringement with a view to obtaining an injunction and damages. To date, Usenet.com has refused to remove content or discontinue offering certain newsgroups.

It will be interesting to see if other Usenet providers come out in support of Usenet.com.

Further updates to follow.