Google warns of spiralling hardware energy costs

[Krell]

Your electricity bill could soon be higher than initial server price tag...


The electrical costs of running today's computers could end up far greater than the initial hardware price tag if their power performance doesn't improve, according to a Google engineer.

That situation that wouldn't bode well for Google, which relies on thousands of its own servers.

Luiz Andre Barroso, who previously designed processors for DEC, said in a September paper published in the Association for Computing Machinery's Queue: "If performance per watt is to remain constant over the next few years, power costs could easily overtake hardware costs, possibly by a large margin.

"The possibility of computer equipment power consumption spiralling out of control could have serious consequences for the overall affordability of computing, not to mention the overall health of the planet."

Barroso's view is likely to go over well at Sun, which has just launched its Sun Fire T2000 server, whose 72W UltraSparc T1 Niagara processor performs more work per watt than rivals. Indeed, the "Piranha" processor Barroso helped design at DEC, which never made it to market, is similar in some ways to Niagara, including its use of eight cores on one chip.

To address the power problem, Barroso suggests the very approach Sun has taken with Niagara - processors that can simultaneously execute many instruction sequences. Typical server chips today can execute one, two or sometimes four threads, but Niagara's eight cores can execute 32 threads.

Power has also become an issue in the years-old rivalry between Intel and AMD. AMD's Opteron server processor consumes a maximum of 95W, while Intel's Xeon consumes between 110W and 165W. Other components also draw power, but Barroso observes that in low-end servers, the processor typically accounts for 50 per cent to 60 per cent of the total consumption.

Over the last three generations of Google's computing infrastructure, performance has nearly doubled, Barroso said. But because performance per watt remained nearly unchanged, that means electricity consumption has also almost doubled.

If server power consumption grows 20 per cent per year, the four-year cost of a server's electricity bill will be larger than the $3,000 initial price of a typical low-end server with x86 processors. Google's data centre is populated chiefly with such machines. But if power consumption grows at 50 per cent per year, "power costs by the end of the decade would dwarf server prices," even without power increasing beyond its current nine cents (five pence) per kilowatt-hour cost, Barroso said.

Barroso's suggested solution is to use heavily multithreaded processors that can execute many threads. His term for the approach, "chip multiprocessor technology" (CMP), is close to the "chip multithreading" term Sun employs.

"The computing industry is ready to embrace chip multiprocessing as the mainstream solution for the desktop and server markets," Barroso argues, but acknowledges that there have been significant barriers.

But he warned even chip multiprocessing is only a temporary solution for the next two or three generations of chips and said "fundamental" circuit and architectural innovations are needed to address the long-term problem.


http://hardware.silicon.com/servers/...9154982,00.htm



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[the great one]

And they are just NOW figuring this out?

[Fudge Tunnel]

Which is why the development of hamster power is vital to saving our planet.

[Krell]

Originally Posted by Fudge Tunnel

Which is why the development of hamster power is vital to saving our planet.

I'm not sure how to take a statement like that from the name "Fudge Tunnel"




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[the great one]

Originally Posted by Fudge Tunnel

Which is why the development of hamster power is vital to saving our planet.

I was somehow expecting a statement about natural gas from you!:icon_scra

[Malakai1911]

I figured I cut my power costs in two ways... I just upgraded from my old CRT to an LCD (uses like 1/10 the power) and I turned on AMD's "Cool'n'Quiet" that automatically underclocks the processor when its not under load, I figure thats gotta save me a little.

[Afn]

To address the power problem, Barroso suggests the very approach Sun has taken with Niagara - processors that can simultaneously execute many instruction sequences. Typical server chips today can execute one, two or sometimes four threads, but Niagara's eight cores can execute 32 threads.

We need to move away from single processor computers and mainstream high end supercomputing. 20 or 50 cpu processor computers in a single box would speed the ablity of AI or SI. Put 50 processors in a single box and speech recognition and visual recognition will improve dramatically.

As energy cost increases, so does overall cost. If the server cost does not get you, the energy cost will. This could threaten the whole digital economy, and end free services like google.

[Krell]

Where the fuck are you going to put them in this imaginary box that generates no heat?

I work on 32 proc systems, that architecture is not affordable in any mainstream sense.

Ohhh I get it . . .NANObots will build them for free in cyogenic chambers and deliver them to your house . . . yah



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[Afn]

Originally Posted by Krell

Where the fuck are you going to put them in this imaginary box that generates no heat?

I work on 32 proc systems, that architecture is not affordable in any mainstream sense.

Ohhh I get it . . .NANObots will build them for free in cyogenic chambers and deliver them to your house . . . yah



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Better design is needed. In about 10 years we MIGHT have the technology at the mass consumer level. Imoho, 32, 64, 128 and 512 processor systems are the only way to create intelligent AI and perhaps SI. IF nanotechnology does solve thermodynamic problems with existing designs we might have a working solution. Who knows with 10 years of excellerated development what will happen.

I just read that they have a study linking genetics and childhood colds to cancer in adults later in life. Not to get on my longevity meme, but this stuff is starting to hit the fan.

[MorphineInduced]

i was reading a article that was talking about similar problems with the advancements in technology due to power consumption..... in a way it will be a long very long time till anything is changed....... even if they did release it to the public it would be very hard for anyone to just go out and recieve this....... look at everything around your house for example its all electrical in some way......... i doubt they would even if this wasnt a mega problem in anyway but it would come down to money at some point ...... look at all the diff fields out there and all the people that would be all of a sudden out of work ......... then the state of the economy .......... it would be like if they all of a sudden put out a car that runs off of water..... and put it out there to the public for about 20 to 40 thousand ..... you could kiss alot of jobs good bye wouldnt really have anyone out there to maybe have the knowledge to fix any problems since all your mechanics only are familiar with gas related engine parts ........i could go on in detail on all this but im sure you see where im coming from with that ...........theres just no way they would allow this to happen......maybe you would see such drastic changes in everyday activity to even more actions done toward people and to the enviroment when everyday activities to your job that you do go to everyday was nt all about money..........it is the only thing that makes the world go around and i dont think any wealthy person in the world would want this to change..... im sorry to say but thats just how it is and there is no point in getting upset about anything that is related in bettering the world in some way........cuz until u convince the mass population that some action is needed then you are just going to make yourself miserable

[wonderboy2005]

Originally Posted by MorphineInduced

i was reading a article that was talking about similar problems with the advancements in technology due to power consumption..... in a way it will be a long very long time till anything is changed....... even if they did release it to the public it would be very hard for anyone to just go out and recieve this....... look at everything around your house for example its all electrical in some way......... i doubt they would even if this wasnt a mega problem in anyway but it would come down to money at some point ...... look at all the diff fields out there and all the people that would be all of a sudden out of work ......... then the state of the economy .......... it would be like if they all of a sudden put out a car that runs off of water..... and put it out there to the public for about 20 to 40 thousand ..... you could kiss alot of jobs good bye wouldnt really have anyone out there to maybe have the knowledge to fix any problems since all your mechanics only are familiar with gas related engine parts ........i could go on in detail on all this but im sure you see where im coming from with that ...........theres just no way they would allow this to happen......maybe you would see such drastic changes in everyday activity to even more actions done toward people and to the enviroment when everyday activities to your job that you do go to everyday was nt all about money..........it is the only thing that makes the world go around and i dont think any wealthy person in the world would want this to change..... im sorry to say but thats just how it is and there is no point in getting upset about anything that is related in bettering the world in some way........cuz until u convince the mass population that some action is needed then you are just going to make yourself miserable

Holy crap! this isn't a forum for 14 year-old girls going thru puberty. Please limit yourself to one period per sentance. I've gotta give you some credit though. Atleast you didn't say all that in 1337.

[serrebi101]

and at least he/she made a point.
Leave them alone, lol.

[Afn]

Originally Posted by MorphineInduced

i was reading a article that was talking about similar problems with the advancements in technology due to power consumption..... in a way it will be a long very long time till anything is changed....... even if they did release it to the public it would be very hard for anyone to just go out and recieve this....... look at everything around your house for example its all electrical in some way......... i doubt they would even if this wasnt a mega problem in anyway but it would come down to money at some point ...... look at all the diff fields out there and all the people that would be all of a sudden out of work ......... then the state of the economy .......... it would be like if they all of a sudden put out a car that runs off of water..... and put it out there to the public for about 20 to 40 thousand ..... you could kiss alot of jobs good bye wouldnt really have anyone out there to maybe have the knowledge to fix any problems since all your mechanics only are familiar with gas related engine parts ........i could go on in detail on all this but im sure you see where im coming from with that ...........theres just no way they would allow this to happen......maybe you would see such drastic changes in everyday activity to even more actions done toward people and to the enviroment when everyday activities to your job that you do go to everyday was nt all about money..........it is the only thing that makes the world go around and i dont think any wealthy person in the world would want this to change..... im sorry to say but thats just how it is and there is no point in getting upset about anything that is related in bettering the world in some way........cuz until u convince the mass population that some action is needed then you are just going to make yourself miserable

IF nanotechnology delivers on the promise of personal fabrication machines in the next 50 years or so, combined with some form of chemical biological nanotechnology, we could be living in a world where everything can be made from existing chemicals, and nanotech self-repairing, self-assembly nanomachines replaces mass production.

AI, SI, nanotechology all waiting to turn mass industrialization into personal mass fab. Biological naotechnology if realized will allow for unlimited or near unlimited lifespans once perfected.

We are getting close to perfecting all four technologies.

[Krell]

Man you never miss an opportunity . . .

Didnt you watch Blade Runner growing up? Despite all the technology, the world was a shithole, because ultimately the "human condition" cant be cured with technology, and you cant change the way people are. No matter how much you think trillions of nanobots cant run free and clean up your shit, they will never be able to do anything for 90% of the worlds population or geography.

If you honestly think that nanobots can resolve the havoc at the rate that more than 8 billion people create, I think you must be delusional.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/environm...on/page2.shtml

So in some uber affluent locked down sterile hermetically sealed farcical dream of nanobot perfection, you might enjoy some of those benefits, but in any real world scenario, you're smokin crack.




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[Afn]

Originally Posted by Krell

Man you never miss an opportunity . . .

Didnt you watch Blade Runner growing up?

Bladerunner is fiction.


Nanotech is only good if it works. I would like to see nanofactories that eliminate mass production and can use anything for feedstocks. That might be too utopian of an idea, but you need to start with perfect and work backwards.

The biggest problem with all of this is energy cost and if it is possible to turn anything into feedstocks. A bigger problem society will face is something out of a videogame. In a nanotech world with personal feedstocks, any person with a nanomachine could take your atoms and reconfigure them.

The plans to turn old scrap metal into a 1993 rolls royce will also be intelectual property, unless AI or SI computers can compute with out violating the goofy notion of intelectual property.

DNA lab on a chip and some form of personal nanotechnology is coming, it is going to happen. How, where and what happens after a few thousand or million nanomachines are in use is anyone's guess.