Microsoft vs Linux

[Theinfamousone]

The Massachusetts attorney general's office is investigating whether Microsoft tried to squash Linux in violation of the consent decree settling the company's landmark antitrust case.
Massachusetts, the only state still pursuing antitrust charges against the software maker, said in a court filing that it "is looking at several issues related to potential enforcement of the decree." These include whether Microsoft has retaliated against an unspecified computer maker for promoting Linux and has signed unlawfully restrictive agreements with Internet service providers.

The Redmond, Wash., software giant has targeted Linux, an open-source operating system, as a significant challenger to the status of its own proprietary software.

A Microsoft representative denied the allegations. "Microsoft's compliance is being closely monitored, and the consent decree is being closely enforced," spokesman Jim Desler said on Monday.

"It's a curious filing, considering that there are several layers of enforcement over Microsoft's implementation of the consent decree," Desler said. "You have strict internal enforcement. You have Microsoft board enforcement as well. Externally you have the Department of Justice and the settling states. And you have the court."

Thomas Reilly, the Massachusetts attorney general, said in an eight-page document dated July 3 and made available on Monday that other states have not been sufficiently helpful in identifying potential wrongdoing on Microsoft's part. "Given the current state of affairs, Massachusetts has begun its own efforts to identify potential decree violations," the document said, without providing any details.

The U.S. Justice Department, which was a party to the consent decree, said in its own filing last week that competitors have been complaining about prices that Microsoft plans to charge to allow access to Windows' innards. In response, the Justice Department said it remains "concerned" about the fees.

Massachusetts' appeal of U.S. Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly's final remedies directed against Microsoft is scheduled to be heard on Nov. 4.

Oh yeah, here's the source

[Lucian]

Boston happens to be the place where the whole Free Software movement was founded. Boston also happens to be the place where Napster was founded.

I am from Boston and I think it has alot to do with the culture here

alot of companies here are very anti microsoft and theres alot of linux based companies here

but you know microsoft does deserve to be punished and im not even trying to be biased here

microsoft for years has controlled and slowly ruined this industry with their monopoly and until we can go to a store and see a linux pc next to a windows pc this isnt over

Massachusetts, the only state still pursuing antitrust charges against the software maker, said in a court filing that it "is looking at several issues related to potential enforcement of the decree." These include whether Microsoft has retaliated against an unspecified computer maker for promoting Linux and has signed unlawfully restrictive agreements with Internet service providers.
"

ive been keeping a close eye on all of this because I'm part of the open source community, from what I've see, Microsoft does everything in their power to keep Linux from being preinstalled. Lindows is currently struggling with OEMs at this very moment over this, internal memos have been released and theres alot of evidence.

If there were a case over this I think Microsoft would lose, and I hope they do lose just so people can have a choice of which OS they want on their machine.

It doesnt matter if most people do choose Windows as long as people at least have the option of buying a PC preloaded with Linux.

[isus]

ms vs. linux is not a real contest. the one thing i will give to ms (*sigh* they probably copied it from apple too) is that all you have to do is pop in a cd, fill out a little bit of information, and bam, you're done. you can connect to the internet almost immediately (you still hafta fill out some minor bs), you can check your email, surf the net, play mp3's, whatever... as soon as you're done installing.

in some linux distro's, you even hafta partition your hard drive, and tell it what kind of cd drive you have, etc.

many many many linux distro's ask you to install all sorts of packages (which are the programs like msie, etc)... and also, so many linux distro's... it's not good. if everybody backed up red hat or mandrake or somebody like that, then linux would be a competitor. but right now... too many distro's, too many n00bs, etc.

besides, no matter what the courts say, ms can kill linux easily. look at how they are trying to kill apple: by stealing all the good ideas. a composited window system, etc.

[Lucian]

Linux is now easier to install than Windows. You pop in the CD and you dont fill out any info at all, it just starts up. No partition, no installing, no configuring, although you do have to configure your internet access.

Overall its easier than Windows.(if you use the right distro)

The reason Windows is still doing so well is because its on every PC, no one is even given the option if they want XP or not, its just forced at people.


No one installs Windows, its already there.

I dont think Windows can kill Linux, the reason Apple is so easy to kill is because its more expensive. Linux is free, in Europe, Asia, Africa, everyone is using Linux or switching to Linux. Its only in the US and Canada where everyone still wants to use WIndows.

Germany is running mostly Linux now, Africa is moving toward Linux, China is using Linux because they dont trust American companies, South America is using Linux because Windows is too expensive, when the world uses Linux and just the US and Canada use Windows, eventually over time I'd think Microsoft would lose its grip on OEMs and once that happens their monopoly is gone.

When enough people use Linux around the world that as many computers are running Linux as run Windows, things will change.

This is maybe 4-5 years away from happening in my opinion. The computer era is just starting in the second and third world, most of Europe, Africa and Asia are just starting to give their people computers and their people cannot afford $300 Windows.

[cheapprick]

Linux is now easier to install than Windows. You pop in the CD and you dont fill out any info at all, it just starts up. No partition, no installing, no configuring, although you do have to configure your internet access.

It sounds like you are describing Knoppix, which is only one distro of Linux. I don't believe it's even the most wide spread, but yeah I like it.

[Lucian]

Yeah I told everyone here about Knoppix, its a good example, Lindows is another example.

Its not widespread yet, and personally I'm using Redhat right now. But for a newbie who wants to try Linux and get used to how it works, Knoppix is perfect.

[Sockfulloflove]

what makes knoppix easier to use for a newbie rather than say mandrake (what i use, just recently started) or redhat?

[begoodbebad]

quote "Linux is now easier to install than Windows. You pop in the CD and you dont fill out any info at all, it just starts up. No partition, no installing, no configuring, although you do have to configure your internet access"

Configure your internet access? It should be automated. Also try playing a DVD on Linux if you're new to this. Why should it be such a pain in the ass? People don't want to learn mechanics before they get on the bus and they dont need this hassle just to install an OS. However good or bad Linux is it it will never be mainstream until it is mostly pain free experience for the regular user.

It is simple to install Mandrake ....except mandrake rolls over and dies on install if you have an optical scroll mouse, like it was some obscure and evil device.... That was 9.0 maybe they made it stagger into the 1990s for 9.1 Also doesn't recognise your hardware like XP does, I had to kid it my USB CableModem was a different one from a different maker. I use a really obscure brand...motorola...duh
My biggest annoyance with Linux is the dumb names everything has. On XP my CD copier is called Exact Audio Copy. My DivX player is called DivX player. My firewall is called a firewall. My photoeditor is called Photoshop. There is nothing wrong with clarity, it helps. Needless complexity or obscurity is the dumbest thing. On Linux everything is named in ubergeek codewords, really fucking dumb and confirms that it is designed (I use the term loosely) by unaffiliated committees with no regard for the end user. It seems to me that a lot of Linux fanboys actually prefer it to have limited appeal because it makes them feel clever and exclusive and to peer down their noses at people who just want something that is intuitive.
I will keep with XP for now and live with the few things it doesn't do so well (allocating system resources would seem to be the big one) because actually it works every time, doesn't crash and all the free software and support you could ever need is readily available. Isn't it strange how Linux distros are doing everything they can to look just like XP! Right down to the colours used. All they need is a start buton (and more decent software).

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by begoodbebad
quote "Linux is now easier to install than Windows. You pop in the CD and you dont fill out any info at all, it just starts up. No partition, no installing, no configuring, although you do have to configure your internet access"

Configure your internet access? It should be automated. Also try playing a DVD on Linux if you're new to this. Why should it be such a pain in the ass? People don't want to learn mechanics before they get on the bus and they dont need this hassle just to install an OS. However good or bad Linux is it it will never be mainstream until it is mostly pain free experience for the regular user.

It is simple to install Mandrake ....except mandrake rolls over and dies on install if you have an optical scroll mouse, like it was some obscure and evil device.... That was 9.0 maybe they made it stagger into the 1990s for 9.1 Also doesn't recognise your hardware like XP does, I had to kid it my USB CableModem was a different one from a different maker. I use a really obscure brand...motorola...duh
My biggest annoyance with Linux is the dumb names everything has. On XP my CD copier is called Exact Audio Copy. My DivX player is called DivX player. My firewall is called a firewall. My photoeditor is called Photoshop. There is nothing wrong with clarity, it helps. Needless complexity or obscurity is the dumbest thing. On Linux everything is named in ubergeek codewords, really fucking dumb and confirms that it is designed (I use the term loosely) by unaffiliated committees with no regard for the end user. It seems to me that a lot of Linux fanboys actually prefer it to have limited appeal because it makes them feel clever and exclusive and to peer down their noses at people who just want something that is intuitive.
I will keep with XP for now and live with the few things it doesn't do so well (allocating system resources would seem to be the big one) because actually it works every time, doesn't crash and all the free software and support you could ever need is readily available. Isn't it strange how Linux distros are doing everything they can to look just like XP! Right down to the colours used. All they need is a start buton (and more decent software).

VideoLan plays DVD's on Linux....don't bother blaming any coders or OS packagers for it. The lame ass MPAA bitched an moaned along with a load of others (MS comes to mind) about Linux being opensource and how if the decryption shit built into such things as powerDVD were on such a system you could 'crack' the DVD and remove it's contents. Fair use is nothing to these bastards so they fought all the way to keep a simple DVD player off Linux.

It makes little sense considering the sheer volume of DVD decrypters out there for all platforms...

Now I will agree...certain parts of certain distros drive me insane. But the system itself is pretty stable on even the oldest of hardware.

And the thing you have to remember is Linux isn't driven by ONE 'company' it's created and worked on by a hell of a lot of people...be amazed at the fact that it even runs at all considering how many actually worked on it from every corner of the globe.

Knoppix boots off CD...no HD is needed and you copy/format nothing....it's sorta like a 'real' copy of Linux you don't have to install to check out. As opposed to distros that run off FAT and run along side windows. IE PhatLinux....

Btw, Lindows...really blew IMHO...

[begoodbebad]

The reason Windows is still doing so well is because its on every PC, no one is even given the option if they want XP or not, its just forced at people.


No one installs Windows, its already there.


I dont think Windows can kill Linux, the reason Apple is so easy to kill is because its more expensive. Linux is free, in Europe, Asia, Africa, everyone is using Linux or switching to Linux. Its only in the US and Canada where everyone still wants to use WIndows.

Germany is running mostly Linux now, Africa is moving toward Linux, China is using Linux because they dont trust American companies, South America is using Linux because Windows is too expensive, when the world uses Linux and just the US and Canada use Windows, eventually over time I'd think Microsoft would lose its grip on OEMs and once that happens their monopoly is gone.

When enough people use Linux around the world that as many computers are running Linux as run Windows, things will change.

This is maybe 4-5 years away from happening in my opinion. The computer era is just starting in the second and third world, most of Europe, Africa and Asia are just starting to give their people computers and their people cannot afford $300 Windows. [/b]

It just isn't true that everyone is switching to linux. Hardly anyone uses it but those who do are evangelical. And make broad sweeping statements which are not true! see above! Linux is used by a small vocal minority who have the expertise and the motivation to get more involved with their machines.

Lots of people choose XP/Win2000 and even pay for it. There are plenty of people making plenty of money selling this stuff even after we all got our copy for free....thats a lot of MS software sold to people who want it.

Germany is mostly Linux??????? one major city switched to Linux. As for China isn't Bill Gates biggest problem not Linux but the fact the Chinese use his OS but won't pay!?
In countries where society is not so orderly people just don't need to switch to Linux, they can safely use pirate software. Who is going to stop them? . Even somewhere like Britain 26% of business software is illegal. Shit who needs a free OS...its all free already.

Lucian almost everything you say is not true. Give it up. You come across like an evangelical religionist (you even make a prophesy!) and we all know about them.

[strestout1]

i agree with begoodbebad...as pretty as OSX looks (i had my XP modded to look like it for a long time) i would never pay for it...windows is great for anyone just starting out with computers but i think linux is definitely ready for the desktop. I switched to RH9 last week and my wife really hasn't noticed any difference (except the whole no BSOD thing).

[Theinfamousone]

Does anyone have a good Linux screen shot? I've never used it, but I'd like to see what the GUI looks like.

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
Does anyone have a good Linux screen shot? I've never used it, but I'd like to see what the GUI looks like.

I'll take one for you....it all depends on themes though so one may look different from another. Same as with XP...lol

And IMHO it actually looks better then XP...pretty much every menu is transparent...even stuff within programs. And having like 30 transparent windows open doesn't create the same BS you get with XP where some sorta flash from 'normal' to transparent.

Anyway I'll post one in a bit...

[Sockfulloflove]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
Does anyone have a good Linux screen shot? I've never used it, but I'd like to see what the GUI looks like.

here are some screen shots of linux mandrake 9.1 (what i run):

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/fscreenshots.php3

[isamoor]

If ya really want a variety of Screenshots of linux desktops, you should go over to:

www.justlinux.com


It's a good linux forum, and they have one huge thread that is nothing but people showing off screenshots. It should be listed on the first page near the middle, as the biggest thread period.

I recommend giving it a shot.

Later,

Isamoor