The Law

[steve15]

Are the morons upset that I posted the current cases online? Or are we expected not to know how to protect ourselves due to your insane values you are placing on us?

[Krell]

Are you referring to the other law threads i see under your name?

[EvilHamsterOfDeath]

i wouldent mind knowing what hes/shes talking about lol

[cheapprick]

He's talking about this (http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9535&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) thread.

You know I've gotten lazy with my reading, all too often if the title doesn't interest me I skip it. I shouldn't have skipped that thread. A couple of people made brilliant posts.

Most of it was the same ol same ol, but there were three nuggets of pure gold in there.
On the 3rd page check out thunderapi's post.
The several references to the $800,000.00 a month.
The suggestion of mass lawsuits based on the seizure of logs was a pretty clever technique, I bow to you.

[r_xq]

Originally posted by steve15
Are the morons upset that I posted the current cases online? Or are we expected not to know how to protect ourselves due to your insane values you are placing on us?

All the information you posted is available online anyway, or is publically accesible, so there's not any legal reason why it cant be said on here. But i guess someone just got a little twitchy

[EvilHamsterOfDeath]

i dont see why it is a problem lol

[r_xq]

Its a problem cos most(if not all) of the regulars/mods here got a bit bored with all the ESV threads a few months back, now theyre all on a mission to make sure nothing that even remotely promotes ESV is allowed on these boards.

Its pretty obvious that some people are going to make a lot of money from ESV when it really gets off the ground, I guess some people dont like that

[cheapprick]

To be fair Shareaza is favored by some members too, but repetitive spamming of the wonder of it isn't allowed. I consider this an example of modding with a balanced hand.

[Krell]

I appreciate the vote of configence, but I am still at a loss to see what he's on about.

Under his name click Search and look at his posts. He has two other Law threads going, and all the rest are ESV crap. Frankly, I think this is a perfect example of someone crying like a baby when they cant have their way with a personal agenda.

For all I know, he deleted his own damned thread to have something to bitch about, and then cry wolf. Either way, pages and pages of his law campaign and ESV is enough already.

[Mel_Smiley]

I just cant get enough of being called a "moron" Steve. Please open a few more threads up to spread the morons all around. do you work for these people? http://www.scifi.com/scaretactics/ I heard shannen Doherty can be a real bitch!

[r_xq]

Originally posted by Krell
I appreciate the vote of configence, but I am still at a loss to see what he's on about.

For all I know, he deleted his own damned thread to have something to bitch about, and then cry wolf. Either way, pages and pages of his law campaign and ESV is enough already.


Krell,what would your opinion be if someone like CCSDUDE, or another 'experienced' member had gone and done all that research, then posted a thread telling everyone about it? I think its just the ESV thing that bothers you, but the posts he made were regarding law and the future of p2p. I dont see anyone else here going to court and pulling out files, then posting what he found out on ZP

Maybe you should do that. You dont have the ESV 'connections' that steve may or not have, so we could all trust you to be impartial.

How about it, big guy?

[Krell]

Hehe Ive seen every episode so far. I never knew who she was, really before this, but yes she looks very bitchy and high maintainance.

and do-able

[Mel_Smiley]

Steve 15 is NOT a regular member! He only posts topics regarding ES5 or has ES5 as an underlying theme. Now Steve is trying to use scare tactics to get people to us it. Can es5 do everything it says it can? oh yeah steve said it can so lets just go along with it. I have heard no one really prove of ES5 doing all the things it claims. anytime i ask a question about the program it goes ignored and then more junk about how safe it is, is spouted forth. Es5 has had more than a fair shot here at ZP. More than fair if you ask me. The faker ES5 crue have been spamming ZP since before the first beta! I think a person should be banned for such spamming



PS Shannen Doherty is very do-able! Oh yeah! Look into Charmed, all those girls are do-able!

[r_xq]

Im sure any of your questions will be answered on the ESV forums. In fact, they probably all have been already.

Im glad you agree with my point that 'regular' ('experienced') members arent allowed to make significant contributions to the ZP boards without being viewed with suspicion, and their opinions / facts dismissed.

"Can es5 do everything it says it can? oh yeah steve said it can so lets just go along with it. I have heard no one really prove of ES5 doing all the things it claims"

You can use it yourself, ask quesions of the programmers, do some research, or read through the research that has already been done, then come to your own conclusions.

I wouldnt really call posting details of ongoing legal prosecutions against computer users 'scare tactics' . You can dismiss what is going on is you so choose, and continue to live in your closed little world. steve did point out that ESV was probably as susceptible to similar legal prosecutions as any other p2p program, others pushed the ESV angle.

A few more week and you wont be able to post anything on ZP, except for stupid spam threads, 'Congrats!!! 1000 posts' threads or pages of links to other sites

[Mel_Smiley]

i dont dismiss the dangers of P2P, but it seems steve has a hidden agenda of his own. If CCS or Krell were smamming their prefered client I would tell them to can it too. Its just the sos and tiresome

[FileHoover]

If people don't want to use ES5, that is their perogative.

If they want to use slow, clogged P2P networks infested with leeches, I think everyone should have that freedom of choice.

If they want to use a P2P client that forces them to waste 10 hours downloading something that turns out to be crap, instead of being able to preview it when they first start downloading it, that is fine. How people spend their leisure time is not my concern.

If they want their children accessing the adult P2P content on their computer using non-password protected P2P programs, that is ok. I have no right to tell people how to raise their kids.

If they want to keep looking over their shoulder wondering who is monitoring/watching/recording their non SSL uploads and downloads, I have no problem with that.

If they want their IP address available for any private investigator working for you know who, it is a free country.

If they want their ip address and MAC address to show up in the database being amassed by the corporate "man", I would not want to limit their fame.

If they want to be the one screaming, "you can't do this to me" when the cuffs go on, I would not want to limit their freedom of speech.

Who the hell am I to tell people what to do?

Enough about ES5!

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by FileHoover
If people don't want to use ES5, that is their perogative.

If they want to use slow, clogged P2P networks infested with leeches, I think everyone should have that freedom of choice.

If they want to use a P2P client that forces them to waste 10 hours downloading something that turns out to be crap, instead of being able to preview it when they first start downloading it, that is fine. How people spend their leisure time is not my concern.

If they want their children accessing the adult P2P content on their computer using non-password protected P2P programs, that is ok. I have no right to tell people how to raise their kids.

If they want to keep looking over their shoulder wondering who is monitoring/watching/recording their non SSL uploads and downloads, I have no problem with that.

If they want their IP address available for any private investigator working for you know who, it is a free country.

If they want their ip address and MAC address to show up in the database being amassed by the corporate "man", I would not want to limit their fame.

If they want to be the one screaming, "you can't do this to me" when the cuffs go on, I would not want to limit their freedom of speech.

Who the hell am I to tell people what to do?

Enough about ES5!

Sarcasm and advertising is strong in this one...


A simple "I don't care about you using my program so stop hyping it" would have done fine...

The thing is most of us AGREE with the points you've put forth since you came here....the concepts are solid but most dislike the program...

So come out with a "pay only" and a "lite" version.

Pay by ads and popup for streaming content and downloads via your servers. And make a bare bones straight P2P app that just serves files between users.

My bet is most go for the lite version...P2P is P2P...not 50 different things rolled into one bloated program...besides it's meant to run for long periods of time, people don't want something that slows the PC to a friggin' crawl. Even Kazaa doesn't go as far as ESV in it's cleaned up lite form.

With all that said...if ESV did become popular...someone would figure out ways to remove crap and give the power back to the user anyway. Might as well win some respect by doing the p2p world a big 'ol favor.

[Monyak]

Hey Filehoover, I have those same schizo conversations with myself every morning!

This board has gotten way out of control. Steve showed up and posted a thread all about a court case of Kazaa. I at first was lost cause he forgot to explain what effect the Kazaa court case would have on other programmers or P2P users or what that had to do with ESV.

I tried to improvise and explain that if Kazaa continues not to appear in court, and if in fact they are not represented by lawyers because of lack of funds, then their central servers can be seized. In fact, they probably will be seized. That is very dangerous shit to the P2P users of Kazaa because the RIAA will have all the IP's and the logs of all users traffic for all the years Kazaa was in business.

So I go on to write that we need safe and secure P2P programs that employ SSL, UDP, and have the ability to penetrate firewalls (because ISP's in the near future will be required to use firewall type software to block P2P traffic) and most importantly, a P2P program that hides your IP on upload and download.

I couldn't agree more...if you want proof go look at Steve15's past posts...go look at Monyaks...or Filehoover..
And as Krell just said...everyone of you ESV lap dogs have spewed enough shit about ESV to last a lifetime....

They all joined up around the same time and ALL had LOADS of good stuff to say about the vaporware....odd since no site was up...cept a shitty flash file.

CCSDUDE, the 'genious' impartial MOD says that Steve and I joined at the same time! CCSDUDE, pay attention to the board, Steve joined in April of 2002 and I appear in Feb 2003. I think you have become a bit confused. I have given you access in the past to my ZP account for the shit that happened with Scorchie and in there I am sure you noticed that I received mail from Zarkov who works for ESV asking me who I am. Get over it already.

Besides that, if you would have read the previous thread that you posted that shit on, you would have seen that I clearly asked Steve to explain what the fuck he was talking about a court case because he opened the thread to talk about Kazaa's court case but the threads title mentioned ESV, so I was just as lost as everybody else.

When Filehoover mentioned something about ESV being an American Invention, I was the first up his ass to ask what the fuck he meant because we all know it to be a Palestinian deal.

Oh, and by the way CCSDUDE, when Filehoover suggested that you were into Kiddie porn because of you young girly avatars and pictures, it was me that was the first to defend you.

So I work for ESV, I defend you, I help ESV, but then I question their original place of origin.

You all are a full of a bunch of schizophrenic bullshit.

So let me understand, we can't talk about the following on ZP.

1) Court cases about Kazaa or their effect on the programmers who make P2P programs.

2) Court cases about Kazaa and the effect of having the Kazaa central servers being seized by the RIAA and what effects that will have on Kazaa current or previous users.

3) We can't talk about important protocols that are necessary today in the P2P programs like encrypted UDP, SSL, hiding IP addresses on Upload and Download.

4) We can't talk about P2P penetrating Firewalls to prevent the ISP and corporate fucks from trying to block our traffic.

5) Shit I almost forgot, we can't talk about VOIP!

I'd like to know what the fuck we can talk about. Mods are suppose to be impartial to the content of this forum so long as the info is constructive and not abusive towards others.

Is their a MOD private agenda here to support one P2P program vs another thereby blasting the others?

The Mods are the ones who are turning the ESV threads into Flame Wars. Most of the ESV threads are not propoganda because they produced a program that does exactly what they said. It took a while for them to release their program, but they did come through. Go back into the older threads and you will see that I threatened ESV on this board that if they didnt produce, I would SPAM the shit out of them and call their hoax.

When in fact they did produce, it was only natural that people would ask questions about the program and want to become educated to the new things that they are doing. That is why ZP has a forum.

I dont live on ZP, but if you take a look at every thread I have ever opened, you will notice that I create mass attention and feedback. ZP doesnt need my traffic?

In the beginning, you guys Flamed me, CCSDUDE you lied on UTC asking them to ban me saying that I was posting under different names like Zarkov. The thing you dont know is specifically the people I know personally - Hint hint!

Only after I challenged Crazy Horse to check the fixed proxy IP that I post from to match it with Zarkov's and other peoples did Crazy Horse print a retraction and apology. You never apologized.

All I am going to say is that the next time that a (partial or inpartial) MOD says that I am Steve, or Filehoover, or that I joined because or for ESV, then keep in mind that SPAM is a very very long and longer understatement of what I will do to this board.

You all know that I can be here within 3 seconds under any proxy to SPAM the shit out of this board and I will have others do the same. I can start rumours on every other board about ZP just as you have started bullshit rumours about me that are just a little more damaging than you can imagine to ZP.

Have one of those sit downs with the MODS and ask yourself if I am worth the headache cause one thing nobody can deny is that when I post, it gets attention, here and everywhere. This board will receive real spam and DOS Attacks in a way that you never thought possible for the lies spread about me if it doesnt STOP now.

This isnt about ESV, this isnt about Filehoover and his or your Prozak, this isnt about Steve's law thesis, this is about MODS spreading bullshit rumours. What is your fucking agenda?

I will understand if the next time I log in to ZP my name is banned. I will act accordingly.

Otherwise, ENOUGH with the shit. Dont test me and stop trying to degrade me and stop with the lies or insinuation that I am Steve, Mike, Tom, Zarkov or President Bush, or that I am in their inner circle.

I am nothing more than another member who loves P2P. In this world, its still a human right to be able to think for ourselves and while my thoughts and ideas may parallel with some it often crosses with others. The MOD's are nobody to degrade the users or spread rumours or bullshit.

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by Monyak
Hey Filehoover, I have those same schizo conversations with myself every morning!

This board has gotten way out of control. Steve showed up and posted a thread all about a court case of Kazaa. I at first was lost cause he forgot to explain what effect the Kazaa court case would have on other programmers or P2P users or what that had to do with ESV.

I tried to improvise and explain that if Kazaa continues not to appear in court, and if in fact they are not represented by lawyers because of lack of funds, then their central servers can be seized. In fact, they probably will be seized. That is very dangerous shit to the P2P users of Kazaa because the RIAA will have all the IP's and the logs of all users traffic for all the years Kazaa was in business.

So I go on to write that we need safe and secure P2P programs that employ SSL, UDP, and have the ability to penetrate firewalls (because ISP's in the near future will be required to use firewall type software to block P2P traffic) and most importantly, a P2P program that hides your IP on upload and download.





CCSDUDE, the 'genious' impartial MOD says that Steve and I joined at the same time! CCSDUDE, pay attention to the board, Steve joined in April of 2002 and I appear in Feb 2003. I think you have become a bit confused. I have given you access in the past to my ZP account for the shit that happened with Scorchie and in there I am sure you noticed that I received mail from Zarkov who works for ESV asking me who I am. Get over it already.

Besides that, if you would have read the previous thread that you posted that shit on, you would have seen that I clearly asked Steve to explain what the fuck he was talking about a court case because he opened the thread to talk about Kazaa's court case but the threads title mentioned ESV, so I was just as lost as everybody else.

When Filehoover mentioned something about ESV being an American Invention, I was the first up his ass to ask what the fuck he meant because we all know it to be a Palestinian deal.

Oh, and by the way CCSDUDE, when Filehoover suggested that you were into Kiddie porn because of you young girly avatars and pictures, it was me that was the first to defend you.

So I work for ESV, I defend you, I help ESV, but then I question their original place of origin.

You all are a full of a bunch of schizophrenic bullshit.

So let me understand, we can't talk about the following on ZP.

1) Court cases about Kazaa or their effect on the programmers who make P2P programs.

2) Court cases about Kazaa and the effect of having the Kazaa central servers being seized by the RIAA and what effects that will have on Kazaa current or previous users.

3) We can't talk about important protocols that are necessary today in the P2P programs like encrypted UDP, SSL, hiding IP addresses on Upload and Download.

4) We can't talk about P2P penetrating Firewalls to prevent the ISP and corporate fucks from trying to block our traffic.

5) Shit I almost forgot, we can't talk about VOIP!

I'd like to know what the fuck we can talk about. Mods are suppose to be impartial to the content of this forum so long as the info is constructive and not abusive towards others.

Is their a MOD private agenda here to support one P2P program vs another thereby blasting the others?

The Mods are the ones who are turning the ESV threads into Flame Wars. Most of the ESV threads are not propoganda because they produced a program that does exactly what they said. It took a while for them to release their program, but they did come through. Go back into the older threads and you will see that I threatened ESV on this board that if they didnt produce, I would SPAM the shit out of them and call their hoax.

When in fact they did produce, it was only natural that people would ask questions about the program and want to become educated to the new things that they are doing. That is why ZP has a forum.

I dont live on ZP, but if you take a look at every thread I have ever opened, you will notice that I create mass attention and feedback. ZP doesnt need my traffic?

In the beginning, you guys Flamed me, CCSDUDE you lied on UTC asking them to ban me saying that I was posting under different names like Zarkov. The thing you dont know is specifically the people I know personally - Hint hint!

Only after I challenged Crazy Horse to check the fixed proxy IP that I post from to match it with Zarkov's and other peoples did Crazy Horse print a retraction and apology. You never apologized.

All I am going to say is that the next time that a (partial or inpartial) MOD says that I am Steve, or Filehoover, or that I joined because or for ESV, then keep in mind that SPAM is a very very long and longer understatement of what I will do to this board.

You all know that I can be here within 3 seconds under any proxy to SPAM the shit out of this board and I will have others do the same. I can start rumours on every other board about ZP just as you have started bullshit rumours about me that are just a little more damaging than you can imagine to ZP.

Have one of those sit downs with the MODS and ask yourself if I am worth the headache cause one thing nobody can deny is that when I post, it gets attention, here and everywhere. This board will receive real spam and DOS Attacks in a way that you never thought possible for the lies spread about me if it doesnt STOP now.

This isnt about ESV, this isnt about Filehoover and his or your Prozak, this isnt about Steve's law thesis, this is about MODS spreading bullshit rumours. What is your fucking agenda?

I will understand if the next time I log in to ZP my name is banned. I will act accordingly.

Otherwise, ENOUGH with the shit. Dont test me and stop trying to degrade me and stop with the lies or insinuation that I am Steve, Mike, Tom, Zarkov or President Bush, or that I am in their inner circle.

I am nothing more than another member who loves P2P. In this world, its still a human right to be able to think for ourselves and while my thoughts and ideas may parallel with some it often crosses with others. The MOD's are nobody to degrade the users or spread rumours or bullshit.


Least you know how to quote bro :)

For starters..

1) Look at Steve15's POST history...sure he joined back in April but he JOINED the fray when you guys showed up. All he's posted on is ESV and 2 or 3 "Law" threads.

2) I did thank you for defending me.

3) I never told anyone at UTC to ban you. I simply said you guys could be one in the same.

4) ESV had it's chance before....anything related to ESV other then some minor 'bug fix/update" threads will be closed no questions asked. The ESV 'crew' had enough time to promote their app around here. They shouldn't be treated any different from other programmers hyping their app. Plus they have their own forum if you wanna talk ESV take it over there till it gets out of beta and is actually popular.

5) Talk about court cases all you want but don't bother bringing ESV into the mix. Even though he stated he felt ESV was open to the same problems, Kazaa has been out longer and therefore has a shorter life. He's obviously trying to direct people to use the app...spam IMHO. If anyone doesn't believe it go look at his fucking post record. He started posting when ESV came to town. Not a single post till then.

Also UDP sucks for a P2P app...if you we're 'security guru' you think you are you'd know why they suck in terms of usability.

ISP's will never be required to do such things...they're willing to put up on that and fight back for the most part. They WANT us using their service. They know broadband is pretty fuckin' useless for downloading anything but 'free' stuff. And they know once they're forced to do something like that they can kiss their asses goodbye when everyone drops right back on dialup.

Also...Monyak...condense dude...that long ass bit of nothingness you just posted could have been said in less then half that.....

And in closing, Steve15 I didn't close your last thread. I should have since you seem to enjoy calling the people who ALLOW you to post on their private site and voice your opinions morons.

If you don't like it, leave, no skin off anyones teeth since finding court records is easy and you've never done dick to help anyone other then ESV.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Monyak
The Mods are the ones who are turning the ESV threads into Flame Wars. Most of the ESV threads are not propoganda because they produced a program that does exactly what they said. It took a while for them to release their program, but they did come through. Go back into the older threads and you will see that I threatened ESV on this board that if they didnt produce, I would SPAM the shit out of them and call their hoax.

When in fact they did produce, it was only natural that people would ask questions about the program and want to become educated to the new things that they are doing. That is why ZP has a forum.

Have one of those sit downs with the MODS and ask yourself if I am worth the headache cause one thing nobody can deny is that when I post, it gets attention, here and everywhere. This board will receive real spam and DOS Attacks in a way that you never thought possible for the lies spread about me if it doesnt STOP now.

This isnt about ESV, this isnt about Filehoover and his or your Prozak, this isnt about Steve's law thesis, this is about MODS spreading bullshit rumours. What is your fucking agenda?

I will understand if the next time I log in to ZP my name is banned. I will act accordingly.


Im not intimidated by you and your threats mean nothing.. And your threats will not be tolerated here.

You and multiple others either from ESV or on your own have been spamming this program non stop.. I have warned you and the others NUMEROUS times to stop of it will not be allowed anymore because this is not your billboard and if you want to advertaise then buy adspace.

You personally have bashed other programs as well and that is not what this forum is not.. And until either you and the rest of the people from ESV understand that this isnt thier billboard and isnt here for them to exploit for marketing purposes then they wont be allowed. Which is exactly how similar cases like this were handled in the past and is whats going to happen.

No moderators should be spreading rumors or taking this personal or making accusations which they have all the information to check and if someone is using a clone then it is very easy to find out and so none of that is needed and i hope none of that is happening..

[Monyak]

Also UDP sucks for a P2P app...if you we're 'security guru' you think you are you'd know why they suck in terms of usability.

Filehoover from ESV board:
This version encrypts the UDP traffic.

Forget the issue of lagged bandwith and the other issue of "no error replies" on UDP networks. You can find that on any proxy.

The issue is security and having options. This is an extra option, its a privledge. The encryption to the UDP protocol interests me because it probably gives the packet more integrity. Anybody who uses any type of proxy is bound to meet more or less the same obsticles.

Encrypted UDP is a good extra because the connection is never really established between the uploader and downloading computers, however the information does fly down the pipe and should not have an open protocol IP address stamped on it with a header that clearly defines the content of the file. At least if the information gets lost, it cant be opened.

[eivioolla]

ES5 only uses UDP for the search protocol of course, not the actual file transfers. But it's good that the searches and file indexing etc etc go encrypted too.

I don't really understand the claim that UDP is somehow more secure, it travels over IP just like TCP and it's the IP header that contains the address fields.

[jonny5]

ESV is a work in progress. In fact it is still in beta stages. Betas are not going to work the way they are suppose to. They are going to be slow, and have problems. With this said, there should not be 20+ pages of a thread devoted to such a thing. It's not good to hype something and then give the public something less than expected. Possibly when it's completed, it will have many nice features. As of right now though, it doesn't. Hence the term beta. People are going to be discouraged with betas. They're going to say, "oh i don't like it because..." Obviously as supporters you hope to win these people over. But you aren't going to win people over with early beta releases that don't deliever, so don't try. It would be nice to see the new releases of ESV in the 'New Releases' section on the main page of zp when they come out, but it's not cool to see 'Why you should switch to ESV' threads, even if they're disguised as 'Law' type threads. As supporters it should be important not to turn people off from using a program, but the way you're going about getting users is turning people off. Possibly going to be a good program and having neat features that don't work well yet are all fine and dandy, but people don't want to use something that is still half-assed. It's better to just wait until it does what it's suppose to do effectively and is better than other programs.

Another example of hype would be the shareaza threads. They might actually be deleted, i'm not sure. If not, take a look at how people reacted to those threads and learn what not to do.

People aren't dumb. If you try throw a bad curve ball, they're going to call you on it. Don't get all upset because you got caught trying to spam.

Threatening people is especially not cool. You'll get put on my ignore list as well as other's ignore list if you keep that up i'm sure, as well as turn people off from using programs you recommend.

[mojo-ris-in]

:devil Give it a damn rest already. I almost expect to see a war thread turned into a commercial for ESV. If you want to post something as news then do it but for Christ's sake stop using it as a disguise to lure people into the damn program. Hell if you have a need to promote ESV with every thread then put up a fucking url in your sig but leave the forums for what they are there for which is an unbiased discussion off all P2P applications and issues. You say that Zeropaid boards are going to hell in a handbasket and I would agree that in a way it is but it's because people with agendas are spitting out their drivel ad nauseum and not because the mods are trying to return the level playing field. Maybe when ESV gets out of beta you can petition for an ESV section of the forum like the other programs have. However if you guys keep this shit up, I seriously doubt that the PTB would allow that. And one other point I want to make is threatening to spam this board with fake names is just really lame. If you had ANY credibility before, you just lost it with that kind of stupid fucking statement.

[Wolfie]

Originally posted by jonny5
Possibly going to be a good program and having neat features that don't work well yet are all fine and dandy, but people don't want to use something that is still half-assed. It's better to just wait until it does what it's suppose to do effectively and is better than other programs.

Jonny5, you just hit the nail right on the head. Sure ES5 has some potential (I did beta test myself up version 5) but right now if you compare the problems with level of content offered (I'm not talking the streaming porn part since my interest is downloading files), using it is more trouble than its worth right now. The files I want right know can't wait for ES5 to be completed so obviously I'll be using other programs no matter what the ES5 spamming team feels about them.

When ES5 is complete and does offer all it promises ppl will make up thier own mind. All the hyping in the world cannot produce the effect of a good program.

[steve15]

Originally posted by Krell
Are you referring to the other law threads i see under your name?

Yes, Now I see that this forum is back up. Thank you.

[steve15]

Originally posted by r_xq
All the information you posted is available online anyway, or is publically accesible, so there's not any legal reason why it cant be said on here. But i guess someone just got a little twitchy

The problem is this is an ongoing legal issue that continues with each new day. The case is still there and we all need to know what is going on daily so we can protect ourselves.

[steve15]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by r_xq
[B]Its a problem cos most(if not all) of the regulars/mods here got a bit bored with all the ESV threads a few months back, now theyre all on a mission to make sure nothing that even remotely promotes ESV is allowed on these boards.

This forum has nothing to do with who has the best software, who is the best P2P program or who gets laid more often.

This forum is all about how we as a community can protect ourselves and also know what is going on with the different courts and cases daily.

[steve15]

Originally posted by Krell
IFor all I know, he deleted his own damned thread to have something to bitch about, and then cry wolf. Either way, pages and pages of his law campaign and ESV is enough already.

I have never deleted any of my posts. What is a board worth with moderators who delete messages they don't like. In the end you will find your users going to other boards. Grow up and make this board the best of its kind by allowing its users to post their messages.

Most people on this system know what SPAM is all about and most know bullshit when they see it. Good reporting never hurts in the end.

[steve15]

Originally posted by Mel_Smiley
Steve 15 is NOT a regular member!


I tired of reponding to a self serving moron. Just go post on another forum and leave the legal issues to the ones that are interested in knowing what is going on.

[steve15]

Lets not talk about who is better or who is worse. That is not what this forum is all about. Lets just keep it to the LAW and how is relates to us.

When I refer to Kazaa or Morpheus, I am talking about their Civil Case since it is pending in the United States District Court.

This case is very important to our community as a whole. That should be were this forum is directed.

[jonny5]

Most people on this system know what SPAM is all about and most know bullshit when they see it.
Yep and so don't be so suprised when you get called on it next time.

If you're going to report about the legal issue, than report about the legal issue.

What is a board worth with moderators who delete messages they don't like
Moderator. noun. One that moderates..
Flaming them to get on their good side often does not help.

Lets not talk about who is better or who is worse. That is not what this forum is all about. Lets just keep it to the LAW and how is relates to us.

sounds like a plan :)

[Korn377135678]

Originally posted by steve15 This forum has nothing to do with who has the best software, who is the best P2P program or who gets laid more often.

This forum is all about how we as a community can protect ourselves and also know what is going on with the different courts and cases daily. [/B]

So your going to tell us,what the forum is for?

I dont see how posting court cases is going to protect us.Are you going to give legal advice?or just going to say the riaa is comeing after us?

[jonny5]

I dont see how posting court cases is going to protect us.
At least it's informative.

So your going to tell us,what the forum is for?

i think he means this thread :)

btw: like you avitar Korn377135678

[steve15]

Originally posted by Korn377135678
So your going to tell us,what the forum is for?

I dont see how posting court cases is going to protect us.Are you going to give legal advice?or just going to say the riaa is comeing after us?

No, I just am going to report the case pending and what changes there are. You are a big boy and can hire your own attorney if you feel you need one.

It never hurts to know what is going on in the courts and with the Department of Justice as it relates to us as a community.

[Korn377135678]

Righttt....
Ascertain the point of it then,why didnt you just make a new post on the cases,instead of going into a another fighting thread on esv?

[steve15]

A former Southern California man who maliciously bombarded the computer system of an El Segundo computer messaging company with thousands of email messages was sentenced today to 16 months in federal prison.

Bret McDanel, who used the moniker "Secret Squirrel" and is now a 30-year-old resident of Fiddletown, California, was sentenced for his conviction on a federal charge of maliciously sending thousands of email messages in September 2000 to a computer server operated by Tornado Development, Inc., formerly located in El Segundo. McDanel was sentenced by United States District Judge Lourdes G. Baird, who presided over McDanel's trial last year and found that he acted with the intent to cause damage to Tornado's email server.

In addition to the prison term, Judge Baird ordered McDanel to submit to unannounced searches of his computers, to advise future employers about this conviction and computer-related federal criminal charges now pending in New Jersey, and to receive psychological counseling.

The evidence presented during the bench trial showed that McDanel, who worked at Tornado from June 1999 until February 2000, committed the crime to retaliate against Tornado (Tornado folded in the fall of 2002). The prosecutors argued to Judge Baird that McDanel harbored resentment against his former employer and that he planned to start a competitor messaging company.

McDanel sent thousands of email messages and overloaded the Tornado computer server. Additionally, the emails he sent contained a link to a web site he had created where he revealed confidential information about Tornado technology that McDanel had learned while employed there.

During the trial, the government also presented evidence that McDanel had attacked the computer system of another former employer in New Jersey in 1997. McDanel was indicted in September 2002 in New Jersey in connection with the alleged 1997 conduct.

This was the first case to go to trial in Los Angeles brought under the "Computer Fraud and Abuse Act," the federal statute covering computer abuse and malicious spamming.

This case is the result of an investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

[steve15]

ALEXANDRIA, Va.– United States Attorney Paul J. McNulty and Michael Chertoff, Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, announced today the indictment of Hew Raymond Griffiths, of Bateau Bay, Australia, on charges related to his leadership of one of the oldest organized software piracy groups on the Internet. The Department of Justice also announced that it intends to seek his extradition in the coming weeks.

A federal grand jury charged Griffiths, 40, with one count of conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement and one count of criminal copyright infringement. If convicted on both counts, the defendant could receive a maximum sentence of ten years in federal prison and a $500,000 fine.

The indictment charges Griffiths, known by his screen nickname as “Bandido,” with being co-leader of Drink Or Die, an illegal internet software piracy group founded in Russia in 1993. The Internet software piracy (or warez) group expanded internationally throughout the 1990's.

During the three years prior to its dismantlement by federal law enforcement in December 2001, the group is estimated to have caused the illegal reproduction and distribution of more than $50 million worth of pirated software, movies, games and music.

"Griffiths thought he was beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement,” said U.S. Attorney Paul McNulty. “He will be proved wrong. We will seek formal extradition from Australia in the coming weeks, but for now, the message should be clear: no matter who you are or where you live, if you steal the intellectual property rights of individuals and businesses, we will not stop at our borders to find you and bring you to justice.”

"The internet makes this type of law enforcement cooperation across international borders essential,” said Michael Chertoff, Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division. “The indictment of Hew Raymond Griffiths shows that international cooperation can result in effective criminal enforcement on a global scale.”

“While combating terrorism is our top priority, agents with the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement will continue to vigorously pursue those who use the Internet to commit crimes,” said Michael Garcia, Assistant Secretary for Immigration and Customs Enforcement at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. “Operation Buccaneer clearly demonstrates federal law enforcement’s resolve to stop cyber pirates and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.”

According to the indictment, Griffiths oversaw all the illegal operations of Drink Or Die, a warez group that specialized in “cracking” (i.e., removing or circumventing embedded copyright protections) software and then distributing the “cracked” versions to the warez scene. Members stockpiled illegal software at huge Internet computer storage sites commonly referred to as “FTP sites.” They were filled with tens of thousands of individual software, game, movie and music titles worth millions of dollars. The group used encryption and an array of other sophisticated technological security measures to hide their activities from law enforcement.

In December 1999, the defendant granted an interview to an online news source proclaiming he ran Drink or Die’s day-to-day operations and controlled access to more than 20 warez FTP sites worldwide. He gave this warning to others engaged in Internet software piracy:

“I hope more people start to realize that we play a dangerous game. . . when you play with fire, you can indeed get burnt. . . . and prison is not a nice thing guys.”

Griffiths’ indictment is the latest action arising from the joint U.S. Customs/Department of Justice investigation known as “Operation Buccaneer”, the largest international online copyright piracy investigation ever conducted by federal law enforcement. To date, 20 defendants have been convicted in the U.S. on charges of felony copyright infringement, 16 of those in the Eastern District of Virginia. Ten defendants were sentenced to terms of imprisonment of between 33 and 46 months, the longest sentences ever imposed for online software piracy. Six additional defendants are currently awaiting trial in the United Kingdom. Spin-off investigations and prosecutions are ongoing in the U.S., Finland, Norway and Sweden. Federal officials credited the assistance of the Australian Federal Police in identifying Griffiths and executing searches at his residence in Australia.

[steve15]

Justice Department Seizes Top Internet Site Involved in Copyright Piracy

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The leading public Internet site dedicated to online copyright piracy was seized by the Justice Department today. Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff and Paul J. McNulty, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia today announced the seizure of www.iSONEWS.com as part of a previous plea agreement entered into by a defendant convicted of violating the criminal copyright laws.

David M. Rocci, 22, of Blacksburg, Va., who used the online screen name “krazy8,” pleaded guilty on December 19, 2002, in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, to conspiring to import, market and sell circumvention devices known as modification (or “mod”) chips in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Mod chips are designed to circumvent copyright protections built into game consoles such as the Microsoft Xbox and Sony Playstation 2, and once installed, allow the unlimited play of pirated games on those consoles. As a condition of his plea, Rocci agreed to surrender to the government his public website, www.iSONEWS.com, which he used to facilitate his illegal activity.

The United States assumed control of the domain name and website this week. Individuals who now visit www.iSONEWS.com will no longer find the latest news on new pirated releases by illegal software piracy (or “warez”) groups. Instead, they will view information about the case of United States v. Rocci, as well as general information about copyright infringement and the criminal prosecution of individuals engaged in online piracy. In addition to this information, the site now contains links to the website of the Department of Justice’s Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section, www.cybercrime.gov, which contains further information on the Department’s criminal anti-piracy efforts.

During a two month period beginning in May 2002, Rocci sold approximately 450 Enigmah Mod Chips throughout the United States and overseas in return for approximately $28,000. The Enigmah mod chips, illegally imported from the United Kingdom, were designed specifically for use in the Microsoft Xbox console. The mod chips contained software code designed specifically to circumvent the security or access control protections on the Xbox. Once the built-in security protections were defeated by the mod chips, pirated game software could be played on the Xbox console.

Rocci used his website as the exclusive means to advertise and market the sale of mod chips to individuals in the online warez community. The iSONEWS website was dedicated to providing information about copyright infringement and piracy, and included pages with news on the illegal warez scene, discussion forums on piracy, and up-to-date listings of all of the latest pirated products that were available. The site had over 100,000 registered users and claimed to receive over 140,000 hits each day.

According to plea papers, Rocci intentionally marketed the Enigmah chip, which sold for between $45 and $60 a piece, as a device that would allow individuals to play pirated games from “all release groups” on their Xbox consoles. A release group is a type of Internet software piracy group that specializes in being the first to distribute new pirated games, software, movies or music over the Internet.

“David Rocci developed a public website that specifically catered to the underground piracy community. He attempted to profit by marketing circumvention devices to that community knowing they would be used to play pirated games,” said Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff. “He thought that there were no risks associated with his actions. He was wrong and everyone engaged in the warez scene should take note.”

“Piracy is not a game or a hobby, it is a crime,” said Paul McNulty. “This case is another example of our dedication to enforcing the intellectual property laws of this nation online. Whether you are engaged in conduct like David Rocci or you are purchasing mod chips to play pirated games, you should stop,” said McNulty. “As David Rocci and others have learned recently, the consequences of copyright infringement are very real.”

Rocci will be sentenced on March 7, 2003 before U. S. District Judge James C. Cacheris, and could receive a maximum sentence of five years in prison and a $500,000 fine.

Prosecuting this cases for the United States are Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert Wiechering; Michael O'Leary, Deputy Chief and Michael DuBose, Senior Counsel, of the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section, Department of Justice. The investigation was conducted by the U.S. Customs Service, including the Customs CyberSmuggling Center in Fairfax, VA, and the Washington RAIC Office in Fairfax, VA.

[steve15]

[ RECENT EVENTS FROM THE DOCKET REPORT FOR CASE: 1:02cr00634 ]

12/19/02 6 Receipt for Surrender of Passport as to David Rocci Passport # 400531972 Country: U.S. (dper)[Entry date 12/20/02]

3/3/03 -- Deadline updated as to David M. Roccireset Sentencing for 9:00 4/4/03 before Judge James C. Cacheris (dper) [Entry date 03/03/03]

3/28/03 7 Memorandum [FILED UNDERSEAL] by defendant David M. Rocci (jcup) [Entry date 03/31/03]

3/28/03 8 MOTION by David M. Rocci to Seal [7-1] Memorandum [FILED UNDERSEAL] by David M. Rocci (jcup) [Entry date 03/31/03]

3/31/03 9 POSITION with Respect to Sentencing Factors by USA as to David M. Rocci (jcup) [Entry date 04/01/03]

3/31/03 10 ORDER as to David M. Rocci granting [8-1] motion by David M. Rocci to Seal [7-1] Memorandum [FILED UNDERSEAL] by David M. Rocci (Signed by Judge James C. Cacheris) Copies Mailed: yes (dper) [Entry date 04/08/03]

4/4/03 -- Sentencing before Judge James C. Cacheris held (r: D.McCoy) USA appeared through: Robert Wiechering. Dft appeared through: Jonathan Lienhard as to David M. Rocci
(1) count 1. Court adopts PSI. JUDGMENT: BOP for 5 months;
3 years supv. release w/special conditions: 1) substance
abuse testing & treatment as dir by PO; 2) deft shall be
placed on Home Detention w/elect. monitoring at deft's
expense for 5 months as dir by PO. Deft shall pay a fine of
$28,500 at a rate of $200/month as dir by PO. $100 special
assessment. Deft cont'd on current bond to surrender after
60 days as dir by U.S. Marshal. (dper) [Entry date 04/07/03]

4/4/03 11 JUDGMENT David M. Rocci (1) count 1: BOP for 5 months w/special condition of Home Detention for 5 months w/electronic monitoring; 3 years supervised release w/special conditions; $28,500 Fine; $100 special (Signed by Judge James C. Cacheris) Copies Mailed: yes (dper)[Entry date 04/07/03] [Edit date 04/08/03]

4/4/03 -- All pleadings accounted for and in order. (dper) [Entry date 04/08/03]

[END OF DOCKET: 1:02cr634-0]

[Mel_Smiley]

Originally posted by steve15
I tired of reponding to a self serving moron. Just go post on another forum and leave the legal issues to the ones that are interested in knowing what is going on.

Look steve cut the moron crap. OK Ill leave the legal fluf to you, you leave the P2P fluf to everyone else. The floor is yours

[Krell]

“Piracy is not a game or a hobby, it is a crime,” said Paul McNulty. “This case is another example of our dedication to enforcing the intellectual property laws of this nation online. Whether you are engaged in conduct like David Rocci or you are purchasing mod chips to play pirated games, you should stop,” said McNulty. “As David Rocci and others have learned recently, the consequences of copyright infringement are very real.”


So the guy sold mod ships, and was sentenced . . . . the above paragraph was the only relavent part of your entire article, which appears to be what you drive home in ALL of your posts.

You know that Direct TV Satellite commercial, where the customer asks him to drive around back, the he says " You work for the cable company dont you?"

DO you work for the RIAA? You sure SOUND like it. Why in the hell you think its your responsability to show up here and spam us under the guise of "informing" us is beyond me. We dont need you to "inform" us, and we dont need your antagonisms.


The problem is this is an ongoing legal issue that continues with each new day. The case is still there and we all need to know what is going on daily so we can protect ourselves.
Wrong again, nothing happens on a daily basis that is earth shattering enough for you to spam post after post.

This forum is all about how we as a community can protect ourselves and also know what is going on with the different courts and cases daily.
NO, its not. It is about your personal agenda to make it that way. We have done fine with out your help thus far.


Dont twist this in to an oppression scenario where you think you can spam thread after thread, and not be called on it.


.

[Korn377135678]

4 pages of news seems more like you want to spam,then trying to post anything of value.

[The Hunter]

steve,if this is so important why dont you post your info on other filesharing sites? Could it be that we are the only ones that have put up with it so far? Did you read the last sentence, and did you understand it? Dont give me a long winded reply about all the legal bs, we are tired of it .

[steve15]

What I posted were the bullshit news from the Department of Justice. If you think that is spam, then you need help.


I will refram from calling anyone a moron again. If you don't like what I write, stay active in another forum and leave this one to the ones that want to read it. How hard is that?

[Monyak]

I thought to direct this to Steve, but then I think I will direct it to the general board.

Its general knowledge that I dont get along with half the people here, but I know that even while my worthy advesarys want to hate me, they RESPECT me. Steve, you got to play by the rules to earn their respect. I have a couple suggestions for you to follow to get along with the people here.


If you want to post law, Dont post full articles, post their links.


Commentate and improvise explaining to people what effects your URL linked law dociers or whatever else will have on the users and the creators of P2P programs. Make your statements based on your links and proof.

State all of your information in one post. If you feel you have left something out, then there is a button called EDIT. Edit your previous post instead of filling up more and more space cause the average reader doesnt follow along and finds himself lost. That is the foremost reason everybody here is bitching.

In this specific thread, you have posted 5 posts one after another until someone finally answered you. That is understood as SPAM. You did it twice. I am sure you simply didnt know about the EDIT button, so its no big deal, but again, use the EDIT button and dont post one post after another, allow people to answer your post before posting in the same thread.


If you make a thread like you did "EarthstationV, Kazaa and all other P2P Programs", then make it clear what you meant to say within the text cause I had no idea where EarthstationV was connected to Kazaa in http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9535


Dont tell people they are morons or get personal. Post your point and if someone else comes by and says your full of shit, read their reply carefully, and respond to the general forum to explain why the person is wrong. This isnt a personal chat forum.

Here at ZP, the best way to earn respect, even when another flames you for your posts, is to outwit without having to become personal.

It takes time and knowledge, but if you have both, you can be a great asset to the community.

Another small point, The Hunter is the one who closed your thread. Not someone else. He only closes threads when he thinks they are going to become flame wars. He is more impartial than any other Mod here.

Dont think I am kissing ass to any Mod here, cause I am more than pissed at a couple of them (read my previous post on this thread) to the point that if Seph and a couple of others PM'd me asking me to calm down and not do some crazy thing, cause otherwise between yesterday and today things at ZP would be different.

If you follow the above methods I posted above, you probably wont have any problems posting even if people dont like what you post.

[steve15]

Originally posted by Monyak
[B]I thought to direct this to Steve, but then I think I will direct it to the general board.


I understand and thank you

[Krell]

Seph and a couple of others PM'd me asking me to calm down and not do some crazy thing, cause otherwise between yesterday and today things at ZP would be different.


Whoaaa ho ho ho wahooo ! ! !


oh ya . . . or WHAT?


If you think think that anyone has any intention to appease your petty threats you are SADLY mistaken. I also think its a huge laugh that you take it upon yourself to dish out advice in your position. Now when we stop laughing our asses off at this, we'll get back to ya.

In the meantime, keep your ESV spam to a minimum.

[eivioolla]

For once I can agree in something with Krell, Monyak's script kiddie threats are simply hilarious.

Oh and one more thing, it's not that hard to get MASS ATTENTION by being an annoying jerk and writing full page posts of tech mumbo jumbo.

[notbob]

this thread contains nothing new--it just rehashes news stories that were posted here months ago

and how does knowing what the DoJ and RIAA are doing help anyone? we already know they are anti filesharing--that's not news

reporting news doesn't fix anything--activism might, except that 90% of active zp users are foreigners and under 18 americans that have no say in what the DoJ does (i don't even think voters do for that matter anymore)

the RIAA and DoJ have access to resources way beyond anything we could get (as far as the DoJ's wiretapping abilities granted under PATRIOT act--they can get whatever they want from your isp, monitor all computer traffic and email etc under FISA, they can go on "fishing expeditions", that is think you are suspicious and tap you until they get evidence)

so the best response to them is this--know that filesharing is a possibly dangerous activity, and watch your ass (even though there is nothing you can do to prevent getting caught)

[Mel_Smiley]

heres a link, look into it http://bipolar.about.com/

[MoonMan]

I have to admit I cannot stand the ESV crap anymore but I can just ignore it all.

What REALLY bothers me is that steve15 has STILL not learned to quote properly. It just drives me crazy when I see crap like

[quote]Originally posted by notbob
Quote) ] whatever here


WHY CAN'T YOU JUST QUOTE CORRECTLY? IS IT THAT HARD?

[ QUOTE ] TEXT TEXT TEXT [ /QUOTE ]
(take out the spaces on the insides of the brackets.)

[steve15]

today and found out that the court will be issuing a different decision relating to Kazaa and its founders. I talked to Judge Wilson's law clerk. He wouldn't tell me what the rulling will be or what was in the decision but he did say it was a different outcome. What that means is unknown to me.

[Monyak]

When is this outcome going to be published and known to all?