Groksters Gestapo Tactics

[Crazy Horse]

What everybodys thoughts on the recent commandeering of dr. damns site and the shutting down of UniteTheCows with Grokster being directly responseable for both

[Wolfie]

I guess p2p companies are learning tactics from the entertainment industry. I guess Sharmen as company now...

[Ken17625]

What are my thoughts?

KaZaA Lite.


Grabowski was insulted in one of the threads today. Lets all console him in his time of sadness. and lets damn the infidel to the burning pits of hell. The Iguana will be his judge and jury.

Be Afraid.

[Sephiroth]

IMHO Dr.Damn should have made his own P2P program than releasing "clean" verisons. The ideal that clean verisons is flawed it lets networks like fasttrack that would have suffered massive loss of users do to some of their devious practices grow and continue to be successful and have a large userbase. It only benifits them because most newbies dont know what spyware is and use the offical verisons aiding further aiding that network..

Plus the clean verisons are reliant on the offical verisons. No actual development or advances in P2P is done so P2P see ZERO benifit and advancements from Clean verisons. The technical part is simple in that all thats done is a new installer is made not includeing the spyware and/or a few resource files. If the main program dies then the "clean" verisons also die..

If people want to change P2P then they should go and create the programs that introduce the changes they want and compete with the other programs. If its successful then other programs will adaptec.

[danielmusician]

I agree with sephiroth. It's time to leave the fasttrack network, and move the newbies to xolox, winMX, blubster, or just something besides FT. I personally wish there were not so many networks, but many clients connected to one, like gnutella, that way there are many files, many programs, and everyones happy.

[riderx]

hmmm nothing wrong with spyware free clients. there are lots of p2p programs out there now. and besides look at past history with kazaa and grokster and some other clients. hmmm. they had a trojan, to log consumers ip adresses. so i dont mind *if * *dr. damm* cleans it up.
and if when dr. damm decides to make a p2p program, we will find out, as probably they will post it here.
the spyware programs, causes hectic and slows down individuals computers. so hence, the word..
some times a little *tweak or crack or hack* is fine by me.

rt damm* waves.

la la

and no i am not dr. damm.
just think hes cool for giving back to the community without asking for money or anything.
now this is true*

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by riderx
so i dont mind *if * *dr. damm* cleans it up...

and no i am not dr. damm.
just think hes cool for giving back to the community without asking for money or anything.
now this is true*

I dont think you understand. Simply "cleaning" a program does nothing to change the scope of things and only allows users who would have ditched that program for a different one which then could have caused that program to change to continue to let the main producer get away with some devious things like Brilliant Digital in fasttrack...

dr.damn hasnt really done anything worthy enough to earn any money.. dr.damn is not giving anything back because they are not doing anything other than just creating a new installer which is not technically hard.. In fact i think its dr.damns lack of ability to create their own program is why they make "clean" verisons in the first place..

Be nice and play fair, create your own code and not rip off others or beware... is what should be learned in this case..

[riderx]

hmmm. hmmm. at least dr. damm cleaned the spyware, lol, and if he just used use an installer program to do this, its better then having spyware crap...

well look at it this way, many p2p programs come and go. open source is truely a great *way * to do things.

seph are you a p2p developer if so what p2p program have u writen?
later *have a nice day * dude
lisa* rtw*

[wiggum]

Cydoor is NOT spyware.

I don't understand why dr. Damn see's the need to hack Grokster.

[jabba|xtra]

even if cydoor is not spyware, its still annoying. Who cares about some stupid ads. You're using the program to share and download files, not to buy some junk and be annoyed by stupid flashing ads, and have some other stupid bde player thing doing stuff u dont even know about.

[evilmegaman]

look, Maybe ppl LIKE Kazaa and Grokster.BUT HATE the spyware and adware so MAYBE YOU SHOULD GIVE CREDIT to dr.Damn.Hey it is america not the FBI! IMHO you guys don't seem to understand WHY he does this.It's because when you do things like this..It gives you a good feeling inside.SSo keep that in mind

[cheapprick]

Personally I am very grateful for what the good Dr. has done.
Saying that editting the code is easy is great, but to someone who doesn't care to take that side of computers past DOS, (like me), who can say that he's not performing a vital function?

I really can't tell a malicious script from the plot to The Three Amigos. Or maybe there's no difference.

That's my two bits

[cheapprick]

Isn't "ripping off" kinda what it's all about?

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by riderx
well look at it this way, many p2p programs come and go. open source is truely a great *way * to do things.

seph are you a p2p developer if so what p2p program have u writen?
later *have a nice day * dude
lisa* rtw*

And just making new installers makes a person a p2p developer? I think not..

Open source is not a truely great way to do things if it was then there would be "Open Source" doctors or lawyers. The ideal that open source is great for p2p is that if one variation is shut down then there would be a another variation out there which if a closed source program could be made open source to do this too.. Also open source programs arent immune to legal attacks, and even if there are a few dozen clones someone with deep pockets like the trade groups its nothing to sue them all and shut down all the mirrors of the source code with isp threats..

Open source p2p plan doesnt take in account of the copyright protection legislations, hardware and etc. that could be forced on the consumers either..

BTW: ripping off IS NOT WHAT P2P is about its what people like the RIAA/MPAA and the trade group of choice wants everybody to believe the label that all of file sharing is illegal so they can shut it all down and whats sad is that because most of the File sharing community believes in it they are actually helping the trade groups more than p2p...

[dr. damn]

Originally posted by wiggum
Cydoor is NOT spyware.

I don't understand why dr. Damn see's the need to hack Grokster.
Actually, Cydoor is spyware. Notice how Ad-aware removes it? There is a reason for that.

If you don't like FastTrack, that's fine: don't use it. But you need to consider that many people like FastTrack, and would prefer to use it without spyware. Considering the sheer number of files on FastTrack, I can certainly see why everyone uses it.

[Ken17625]

True Dr. Damn but what is being said is why "Grokster". KaZaA Lite is damn good enough as it is. I don't see the need, but if people wan't it, so be it.

[BuzzB2K]

Originally posted by Ken17625
True Dr. Damn but what is being said is why "Grokster".

I believe you are the only one who has said that...

If you consider that this IS the Grokster Forum, that could explain "Why Grokster"


:mellow Buzz

[wiggum]

Originally posted by dr. damn

Actually, Cydoor is spyware. Notice how Ad-aware removes it? There is a reason for that.


what evidence do you have on this? Earlier versions of cydoor were spyware but newer versions do not collect personally identifiable information. I have read an article by a spyware expect in which the author admits that cydoor is not spyware. A lot of companies complain that Ad-Aware unfairly calls a lot of things spyware when in fact they are nor spyware.

Originally posted by dr. damn

If you don't like FastTrack, that's fine: don't use it. But you need to consider that many people like FastTrack, and would prefer to use it without spyware. Considering the sheer number of files on FastTrack, I can certainly see why everyone uses it.

Yeah, IMO, FastTrack is at least twice as good as gnutella. I have always had to best luck with getting files from FastTrack. It is the most popular network at the moment and IMO, the best.

[BuzzB2K]

Originally posted by wiggum
Yeah, IMO, FastTrack is at least twice as good as gnutella. I have always had to best luck with getting files from FastTrack. It is the most popular network at the moment and IMO, the best.


http://www.napsterites.net/underground/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif http://www.napsterites.net/underground/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif http://www.napsterites.net/underground/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif


:mellow Buzz

[Sephiroth]

Now you know why its called Ad-Aware and not Spy-Aware..

[Rickio]

I didn't even bother to read all the posts as it all seemed so negative.
But cleaning p2p apps is ok with me. How can anyone who uses a p2p app and frequents this forum have a holier than thou attitude.

People just relax and enjoy life, if possible...

If you download on mp3 for free and then think someone who makes it easier for you is bad. hmmm weird.
If you do not download and share files, I wonder why you are here...

What dr. damn has done is give us a way to access some of the most popular p2p networks, thereby giving us a chance to find what we want.
You can use any p2p app you want, but if no one is their what is the use.

[dr. damn]

Originally posted by wiggum
what evidence do you have on this? Earlier versions of cydoor were spyware but newer versions do not collect personally identifiable information. I have read an article by a spyware expect in which the author admits that cydoor is not spyware. A lot of companies complain that Ad-Aware unfairly calls a lot of things spyware when in fact they are nor spyware.

Let me guess: this article you read was by Steve Gibbson.

You have to consider something about this Gibbson guy: Why is he a security "expert"? Because he says so? His advice is complete bunk as far as I can tell.

[wiggum]

Originally posted by dr. damn


Let me guess: this article you read was by Steve Gibbson.
You have to consider something about this Gibbson guy: Why is he a security "expert"? Because he says so? His advice is complete bunk as far as I can tell.

Can't remember who wrote the article but he isn't the only one out there who is saying that cydoor is harmless. Tom at Slyck is calling it adware and so are many informed others.

Again, has anyone got any evidence what so ever that the newer versions of cydoor collect personally identifiable information?

[Rickio]

I think the main point is , we have a right to decline ads or spyware and being given a oportunity to avoid ads or spyware is cool.

both adware and spyware use your systems resources and why should we give that away, so we can have a slower internet experience.

[DasFox]

Grokster is Freeware correct then, isn't that
considered Open Source, if it is not then it should be considered Proprietary, People you can't own what's FREE there has to be a monetary value placed on it in order for someone to claim it. I think that Grokster pulled the wool over someones eyes here, and Dr. Damm was in his rights to change around the software, and put it on his own site.


pro·pri·e·tar·y Pronunciation Key (pr-pr-tr)
adj.
Of, relating to, or suggestive of a proprietor or to proprietors as a group: had proprietary rights; behaved with a proprietary air in his friend's house.
Exclusively owned; private: a proprietary hospital.
Owned by a private individual or corporation under a trademark or patent: a proprietary drug.


A Proprietor owns, so owning Grokster has to have monetary value, and from what I see that is in the business of owning the Company that makes the software NOT the software itself, best thing to do next time is to RIP Grokster's name off the Software call it your own, and then the DEAL is done, and no one can complain, make sure some code is changed around a bit, and then its borrowed Technology, you mean no one borrows a little here, and there, and tweaks it to their own liking of course they do. Dr Damm will you get another site up ?

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by DasFox
Grokster is Freeware correct then, isn't that
considered Open Source, if it is not then it should be considered Proprietary, People you can't own what's FREE there has to be a monetary value placed on it in order for someone to claim it. I think that Grokster pulled the wool over someones eyes here, and Dr. Damm was in his rights to change around the software, and put it on his own site.


LOL...

Freeware isnt opensource.. Its techincally "freeware" because you dont have to pay money for it. anythingware other than hardware and software is a marketing gimmick.. When you say opensource it usually means software that is released under a GNU/GPL license. Which Grokster is a closed source program no gnu/gpl license and ill bet their EULA prohibits the kind of thing that dr.damn was doing..

[PatientSaint]

umm i use Winmx myself but i don't see what's wrong if people want a cleaned version of program. I think it should be up to the user if they want anything or not. :)

[JackSpratts]

Since I offered instructions on how to clean your own version of Grokster and posted them in various forums back in march I’m in a pretty good position to explain why and it's not complicated at all. My intent was to put the filesharing companies on notice that loading their applications with runaway spyware would result in immediate negative consequences. Every time someone used one of my cleaners it would be one less person who used the official version, and that’s one less person Grokster could sell to an ad agency, which was what this was all about, and still is. At the time the two major networks, AG and Fasttrack, were loaded with spyware – and files. The attempt was to get rid of one without losing the other, and it worked pretty well. At least until the RIAA, our real enemy here, closed down AG and turned Grokster into a cop. While it’s true companies like KaZaa, Grokster et al did not remove the spyware in question, there’s no telling how far the companies might’ve gone in polluting these applications with even more junk had it not been for the well publicized pressure put on them by the authors and users of the various cleaners and cleaned versions, especially in the beginning.

While creating a new peer-to-peer application from scratch is a noble goal (and a major undertaking), one is not a substitute for the other. Migrating the community off the largest networks and onto safer, more responsive ones is a time consuming and expensive effort, regardless of how good the new client turns out to be. You can have the best application in the world but if no one uses it, it will be devoid of files and remain segregated, no more than an ineffective plaything.

Make no mistake, the next generation P2Ps are being created right now. Spyware-free and much more secure than those available today, they’ll be unlike anything you’ve used before. But in the meantime we all need to communicate, to exchange items and ideas, and do it as best we can. So while we wait for these amazing new apps to come out of the labs and come online, we’ve got to do our best with the compromised ones that are actually working right now, in our bedrooms and in our dorms.

- js.

[Vash_the_Stampede]

Originally posted by Crazy Horse
What everybodys thoughts on the recent commandeering of dr. damns site and the shutting down of UniteTheCows with Grokster being directly responseable for both

I'm a bit new here... could you elaborate on this? What exactly did Grokster do?

[whiff]

I think there's something very appropriate, even poetic, about what Dr. Damn's been doing.

you go girl, get yr hack on.