I'm not paranoid....but...

[MikeHunt]

I must admit that I have been dubious and skeptical of some of the claims made in posts here (and other places) about how P2P filesharing type people are being watched / tracked / monitered.
I thought it was isolated to certain people 'pushing the envelope' , general paranoia & certain circumstances.
Well , it's not.
IMHO... we are all being tracked and violated.
Recently I downloaded the 'security file' available for Shareaza ...and I was amazed at the number of hits blocked from Overpeer , BayTsP...etc.
Over 150 in less than one 24 hour period.
I highly recomment to everyone to use what ever means that are necessary and protect themselves from these idiots and deny them ability to access your computer without your consent.
I know that IP addresses can be blocked at the firewall and there's Peer Guardian and others out there trying to help us, but someone out there in P2P land needs to make a software program that works much like a virus scanner or like Ad- Aware.. with timely updates on IP's to block.
In the next few months I believe the stakes are going to get higher. And our ISP's will cave in ,once risk and exposure become too great.
Right now I think we are all being observed and cataloged as part of a future strategy by the RIAA types.
Part of their game plan I'm sure.
So ,trade on brothers and sisters but remember .... 'forewarned is foreskinned' ....or something like that.

[notbob]

yes, it blocks IP adresses, but are they what the labels claim?

how do you know it is BayTSP and not some kid in California doing the same thing as you?

the only way is to whois everyone that connects to you--good luck on that one

plus how can you be sure that the IP's it isn't blocking aren't BayTSP etc?

you can't--there is no way.

[Dark Messenger]

very good points mikehunt and notbob.

Now i'd like to address something and or ask a question...like notbob said...the reliability of those ip blocks or addresses that you are blocking do need to come into question to make sure that they are A)accurrate and B)authentic.

Always consider the source and who they are from where are they getting their information concerning the ip's to block.

Last point and i'm hoping someone can prove me wrong on this one. Notbob i think it might have been you or krell or another astute forum member here or pointed out a flaw with peerguaridian and that flaw was that PeerGuardian doesn't do a thorough job of blocking ip's as its intended to do...there is an initial connection (maybe a second or two...correct me if i'm wrong) before the connection gets dropped by PG?

but what I really want to emphasize here is this:

I've heard a lot of ppl say that 'PeerGuardian isn't a real firewall' or that its not a full-feature firewall. To that I say true...i don't think it was ever intended to take the place of your zonealarm, tiny personal firewalls, norton...whatever.

Now getting to the point...this question was raised:

can't I just add these ip's to block into my firewall and have it do the same thing WITHOUT using PeerGuardian?

Most people respondes yes....I now decree NO you can not...the reason? I tried blocking the address of zeropaid in my firewall Atguard 3.22 a predecessor to Norton Personal Firewall by blocking all access incoming and outgoing tcp to the ip address for zeropaid, (209.126.159.86) and it didn't work...i still connected to zeropaid just as flawlessly as before using my webbrowser...the reason? i think its because i already had another preconfigured rule for my webbrowser in which i allowed internet explorer (actually my proxy program..i only connect to the net through proxy software) to access any address outgoing on port 80....so ultimately this boils down to:

If there is a preconfigured rule for a Trusted application on your pc that you've granted very generous or even full privilages for such as webbrowser, kazaa, etcetera...then making new rules for blockin all incoming/outgoing tcp connections to these untrusted or malicious ip addresses in the shareaza security update/PeerGuardian/whatever will do you know good...as the preconfigured rules for the trusted applications will override the newly created very general rules you've just made in your persona firewall software (at least that has been the case with me and using [b]Atguard 3.22 personal firewall software...your results may vary...if they do i'd like to here them...and i'm talking about making a general rule to block all incoming/outgoing tcp communications to zeropaid's website with a preconfigured rule for your webbrowser allowing outgoing tcp on port 80 to any address as an example to try and test my theory and prove me wrong or back up my findings.

The only program I've found that really and actually truly blocks these connections (like the one to zeropaid) is PeerGuardian the 1.2 version not the 'rapid response' version for cable modem users...the rr version i have is flawed it doesn't show three tabs (with the third tab being used for network connections)
PeerGuardian is the only program I can sucessfully use or have sucessfully used to block a real leecher on kazaa or whatever when i know their ip (usually obtained through looking at firewall logs while they are leeching from me or by doing a netstat -an in a dos box)

Peerguardian works for me and works very well. Its also scheduled for an update in April..so if you have anything you want to see added to it or improved...please notbob, krell and all you other technically talented and gifted zeropaid members..post your want/wish list here for new features you'd like to see implemented in the updating of this software.

Thanks again.

-DM

[MikeHunt]

@NotBob...the reason I know who is attacking me (while Shareaza is running)is because the Shareaza security update lists 'whois' conveniently in the "comments" right hand column. BayTSP ...ProtectedbyCovanant...OverPeer..etc..all are listed by IP addresses - once the list is loaded.

Check it out for yourself.

Politics aside..props to Mike @ Shareaza for being one of the innovaters in P2P... interested in giving his users the tools to protect themselves from these bastards .

[MikeHunt]

@ Dark Messenger...yeah ..your assessment of Peer Guardian is fairly accurate.
But I understand the it's inventor (Chris??) threw the program together in a few hours as a side project and plans to revise it soon to fit conditions better.
So it should be judged as a work-in-progress.

I still think we all need a stand alone program that works as a P2P firewall - to used with any program...much like a spyblocker or an anti-virus program.. that detects / block intrusions in real time with updates of the IP lists to be blocked.

Shareaza is on the right track with their security update file.
Even if you usually dont use / like the program ..check out this security feature they have for yourselves.

Firewalls all act differently and have different rules governing their performance. I have used Norton with great effectiveness ...but all the typing of IP addresses to be blocked and staying current with them all was killing me.

[eivioolla]

Originally posted by MikeHunt
I still think we all need a stand alone program that works as a P2P firewall - to used with any program...much like a spyblocker or an anti-virus program.. that detects / block intrusions in real time with updates of the IP lists to be blocked.


How do you think you can tell the difference between a regular p2p user who tries to access your shares and a person working for anti-p2p companies who tries to access your files to record your ip? Nothing says they have to use ip addresses that are registered to some known anti-p2p companies and as soon as their current ips would be revealed they could get new ones. The blocking system would always lag a few steps behind. This would never work.

[MikeHunt]

..a good point eivioolla...but like an anti virus program - with updates...once offending IP addresses are known and confirmed..they could be added to the list that is being blocked. Sure, it's just another cycle of cops-n-robbers...but why let them violate you and access your computer without at least putting up a fight and making it harder for them to employee this tactic.
I think it's harder for them to get new IP addresses(continously) than it would be for us to block their current addresses once they are known.
Peer Guardian and Shareaza (and others) are on the right path , but need to become more reliable with better and faster detecting methods.

[endersgame21]

I agree that a program that blocks the "bad" IP addresses would make it harder on the RIAA. If every single perons used that program then sooner or later the RIAA would have to give up on changng IPs. But I doubt the majority of fileshares would use such a program just like the majority of fileshares don't use programs like K++ or Emule Plus unless the RIAA becomes a lot more aggressive and you would have no choice but to use such program. But the program would either benefit you or hurt the RIAA and if it became a lot like an antivirus is now then it would really damage the RIAA. It would be cool if someone that worked for the RIAA was a mole and made the program and updated it and could even make a profit off of it by including adware.

[Monyak]

If you think you can be anonymize on the net, your are WRONG.

Everything you do on the net is logged, either by the servers you are visiting, your ISP(internet service provider), by yourself (cookies, ...) or by third parties. One of the ways these people use to recognize you, is by recording your IP address.

An IP-address is a number that is unique for each computer, device that is connected to the internet.

Wanne know your IP-address ?(windows 95,98,Me, XP)
Go to START -> RUN
and type
winipcfg
(windows NT,2000)
Go to START -> Programs -> Accessories -> Command Prompt
and type
ipconfig

Now what can you do to hide your IP-address ? You can use a proxy-server. (Yes HIDE, if they can get access to the logs of the proxy-server, they can still fidn your ip-address.)
A proxy-server is a computer who makes all the request for you.
So they get the IP-address of the proxy-server but not of your computer.

There are 2 main types of proxies. HTTP and SOCKS (uses the ports 8080 and 1080).
HTTP proxies are for use with your browser.
SOCK proxies can be used with http, ftp, telnet, nntp and common chat protocols. (like ICQ).

Some of the proxies can give out/forward your real IP to the site you are connecting to and do infact log their users. As it turns out, proxy servers with theSquid Cache forward your real IP upon a request.

You can test your proxy at this site:

http://www.all-nettools.com/tools1.htm
http://thor.prohosting.com/~tcpip/cgi-bin/env.cgi

Check to see if your IP shows up or the IP of the Proxy.

Be careful of many US proxies. Their ISP license requires them to keep logs. Foreign proxies are the best, especially in 3rd world countries like Cambodia who dont give a shit about the RIAA or any court order that appears in a language that is just as foreign to them as the people requesting the information.

[Mikonos]

NOTBOB has no idea what he is talking about. A lot of what that guy says is wrong.

[notbob]

Originally posted by Mikonos
NOTBOB has no idea what he is talking about. A lot of what that guy says is wrong.

how would you know that unless you've been here a long time?

zeropain anyone?

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Originally posted by Mikonos
NOTBOB has no idea what he is talking about. A lot of what that guy says is wrong.

Bwuhahahahah

You have 4 posts and you are judging my fellow zeropaid member...damn noobs!

No, seriously.. you can't just judge someone by one or a couple posts. you have to check out what they have been posting since the beginning...

[Monyak]

After 4 lousy posts, she was BANNED pretty fast!

Notbob is the most skeptical I know, but he generally leaves you with something to think about.

The thing that scares me is the shitware that the RIAA is trying to have legislated in congress to not only get ahold of your IP but also your MAC address.

The problem is that they have been trying to outlaw proxies, and from the looks of it, they probably will succeed.

I read an article that r_xq posted today on another thread about how a congressman characterized P2P as a criminal society that is connected to organized crime. If so, how come I aint gettin paid!

How the hell can anybody think that 50,000,000 (yes thats 50 million) Americans are wrong! So now were all in the mafia!

[MikeHunt]

@ Monyak...I'm not talking about surfing the net annonymously(if you READ my comments above)...which I generally agree with you is probably not possible - for the reasons you state.
I'm talking about having a P2P 'firewall' type program in place (similar as to the 'plug-in' Shareaza has now) that works for any program ( like Peer Guardian - but better and updated).
As soon as these 'enemies of P2P' IP addresses are known ... just like how a virus scanner operates ..they would be loaded into the data base update much like AdAware or Norton.
Yes, it's not foolproof and is a constant escalation of cops-n-robbers syndrome, but why roll over and let them access your computer and spy on you without at least putting up a fight. Note: while typing this, I received 2 more intrusion attempts from BayTSP - which of course were blocked.
It's all about protection ... which is the point of this thread.
I hope dr. damn or smash or chrismeth, or one of the other programming talented Zeropaid type people can develop a protection tool like this to help us protect ourselves from these bastards....tbc

[eivioolla]

Yeah of course we fight. But there are a lot more efficient ways than this, like Freenet or perhaps in the near future es5 with proxies. But if you want to use other softs I guess this would be better than nothing.

[Wings_of_Azrael]

@ Dark Messenger: I was able to use my firewall to block ZeroPaid.com from loading. Also, I use Proxomitron. Still, I could block the IP using KerioPF because rules on top override rules below them. Yeah, I had my rules to allow Mozilla and Proxomitron to access the internet, but the rule to block ZeroPaid was above them. Therefore, no ZeroPaid. I've done this before to block annoying leeches who insist on trying to reconnect and download 100+ MB files/full albums from me after I say "no, go away" and disconnect them.

Still, it's a pain the ass to make new rules to block out dozens or hundreds of hostile IP blocks everytime RIAA, MPAA, ect. get fresh IP ranges. I guess I'm just depending on eMule's old block list for when using eMule and my obscure music tastes when using other networks.

[MikeHunt]

@ Wings_of_Azrael...yes, you understand what I'm saying!
But instead of E-mule and Shareaza...etc... having there own block lists..a common P2P blocking-the-enemies-of-P2P-program should be developed. That was my point.

[Wings_of_Azrael]

Originally posted by MikeHunt
@ Wings_of_Azrael...yes, you understand what I'm saying!
But instead of E-mule and Shareaza...etc... having there own block lists..a common P2P blocking-the-enemies-of-P2P-program should be developed. That was my point.

Indeed, maybe some benevolent soul would be so kind as to create such a program. Hopefully, the next generation of Peer Guardian will be more dependable. Maybe even have the ability to upgrade from the program's interface... on a consistent basis. Hehe, maybe that's too much to ask for free.

[Dark Messenger]

Originally posted by Wings_of_Azrael
@ Dark Messenger: I was able to use my firewall to block ZeroPaid.com from loading. Also, I use Proxomitron. Still, I could block the IP using KerioPF because rules on top override rules below them. Yeah, I had my rules to allow Mozilla and Proxomitron to access the internet, but the rule to block ZeroPaid was above them. Therefore, no ZeroPaid. I've done this before to block annoying leeches who insist on trying to reconnect and download 100+ MB files/full albums from me after I say "no, go away" and disconnect them.

Still, it's a pain the ass to make new rules to block out dozens or hundreds of hostile IP blocks everytime RIAA, MPAA, ect. get fresh IP ranges. I guess I'm just depending on eMule's old block list for when using eMule and my obscure music tastes when using other networks.

Thanks Wings_of_Azrael...that's info I needed to know and was after...it appears I've placed my trust in poor program (Atguard 3.22). It seems its not as secure as I thought it was...I also found out through some research with some folks on the xs hub (Cypher) that Sygate Personal Firewall 5.0 Pro was also able to block the zeropaid ip (as a test) to check the reliability of blocking 'leeches' and or 'government agents/riaa/mpaa' from accessing your pc through entering known untrusted ip's in your firewall manually as opposed to a separate standalone application (as Mike suggested) to do just that.

Mike I understand your point about a separte p2p-independent (will work with any filesharing program, irc, etcetera) to block these harmful ip addresses. The ability to autoupdate or at least a button to check on a central server (i.e., a 'website') for updated lists and have those added automatically is a good one.
Currently PeerGuardian is the only general purpose (non p2p program dependent) firewall that even remotely comes close (that I'm aware of)
So what about it, Meth? How reasonable and possible is it to do these autoupdates.

And to all...where do you get your list of ips to block from now currently? I've heard the zerodata site is good.are there others? even if they are from ftp or fxp boards...dc or dc++ or whatever sources?

Also I'm still interested in firewalls that can block a specific ip even when a trusted application has full access privilages.

Now I know of two good ones: 1)Sygate 5.0 Pro and 2)Tiny Personal Firewall (thanks to W_of_A for the tip)

-DM

[TC75580]

I'm NOT paranoid. I have nothing to be careful for, because I can't wait to see everyone who uses Kazaa in court against the RIAA!! A whole 5 million people!!

I buy the records that I think are good. I DON'T buy the top 10 selling albums unless one of them happens to be superb, but I DO have them on my computer. Do I care? I will buy what I like. Just because I get to listen to what I buy before I buy it, doesn't mean I have to be taken to court over it. So now I won't buy those albums-with-one-good-hit-song anymore (not that I ever did), because I HAVE THE FREEDOM TO. I will decide what is good enough to buy, and I don't want MTV or the RIAA or anyone for that matter telling me what I can do (with all due respects for the law, except in this case).

I think I'd rather support the artists that aren't making millions and enjoy what they do, than the labels, spoiled pop stars, and corporate f*#ks that are logging my IP waiting to take me to court.

[MikeHunt]

@TC75580...you shouldn't be paranoid - just careful.
When I use Shareaza (and I suspect it is the same or worse for other programs) I get at leat 10 hits per HOUR from these bastards ..trying to search my files. If you dont believe me d/l Shareaza install the 'security plug in' and see the hits for yourself.
It just pisses me off.
We all really need to take precautions.
At present the only other defense we have is the 'strength in numbers' ...they-cant-get-us-all philosophy.
And they cant...BUT ...they can find out who shares the most ...who is 'pushing the envelope' and make examples of them.
Once a few people are proscuted ..the crowd will start to disburse.
They want to return P2P to an underground cult type hobby. Then (they feel)it will be easier to accomplish and regain their monopolistic goals.