Scour Exchange....

[tabclear]

Does any one remember Scour Exchange? This along with Napster were the originals. I think Scour is often overlooked, and it’s importance in the file sharing community and it’s inevitable future forgotten about. It was the first app that shared any file and not just mp3’s, and along with Napster was the only file sharing app on my PC for a very long time. It was a sad day when they both died.

Since then, I think the P2P market has become flooded almost with mediocre apps and networks, with only a few really standing out. FastTrack is the most obvious and popular network at the moment and I often find myself wondering why? It’s a network created by a corporation with the sole intent of making money off it in the long run, with KaZaA and the other clones basically testing platforms for the network. Why did it become so popular? If some kid in his basement had created FastTrack, would it have been so successful? It seems at the moment the only popular P2P networks are the ones that are in the hands of corporations who only let us use their networks for illegal purposes while they test their technology, and then screw us by making them subscription/legal/paid for services. Once FastTrack goes over to the dark side, we will have OpenFT (If were lucky) but that will never be as popular (see OpenNap).

I think anyone with enough sense to create a truly stable, scalable, fast, efficient, P2P Network. Will in the end, sell it to (Insert mass global company here ) for 20 Million quid (or what ever currency takes your fancy). Is there any hope? I know if I was to create a great P2P network that had a steady 10 Million users on it every day, sure I’d feel damn proud, but I’d also give it away in a wink if some handed me a blank cheque for it.

To be honest I’m not sure what I’m trying to say here, just having a rant… I’m sure there’s a point in there somewhere.

Feel free to try and find it!

Tab

[BloodySabbath]

I think you're point is that the entire Internet revolves around the almighty dollar, and that p2p apps are no exception to that rule. And you're right for the most part. They only thing that really isnt covered is Open Source networks (like gnutella) - it would be practically impossible to have a company buy out the whole gnutella network.

[Wolfie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tabclear
Since then, I think the P2P market has become flooded almost with mediocre apps and networks, with only a few really standing out. FastTrack is the most obvious and popular network at the moment and I often find myself wondering why? It’s a network created by a corporation with the sole intent of making money off it in the long run, with KaZaA and the other clones basically testing platforms for the network. Why did it become so popular? If some kid in his basement had created FastTrack, would it have been so successful? It seems at the moment the only popular P2P networks are the ones that are in the hands of corporations who only let us use their networks for illegal purposes while they test their technology, and then screw us by making them subscription/legal/paid for services. Once FastTrack goes over to the dark side, we will have OpenFT (If were lucky) but that will never be as popular (see OpenNap).

Unfortunately that is the nature of the beast that is captalism and eventually everything will come down to all mighty doller (or pound). As we have seen recently with with Kazaza no P2P will be free forever and at some point someone will try to capitalize on a successful illegal and free program. However, the P2P beast is not taking it lying down either and like the Hydra of mythology it grows another head when one gets chopped off. So personally, even though I might be a bit miffed if my favorate filesharing program goes subscription based, I know there will always be ten other ones that will sprout out and take thier places. Scour and Napster may be gone but they pioneered the way for other programs which will continue to this endless cycle. And this is the point that opponents of P2P like the RIAA don't get, which is a direct result of basic law of supply and demand.

PS. Didn't mean to get to chatty

[Roamerick]

So what's the solution? Pump more resources into the open alternatives by "marketing" the concept of P2P to the masses of skilled programmers out there.

Plus, I think the corporations are doing a fine job of screwing up their own networks' popularity simply by filling their client apps with user-hostile spyware and malware.

Needless to say though, without information being efficiently spread to the unknowing masses, these corporations' actions cannot be exposed. By hanging around Zeropaid and chatting to other people "in the know" it's easy to forget that a great slice of the suerbase is clueless at best when it comes to the downside of some P2P apps.

I just managed to put a colleague off Kazaa (She'd had it on her desktop for months) and get her to switch to Kazaa lite. She simply never heard of spyware, and she is not alone. The zeropaid and gnutellaforums crowd is a minority, a drop in the P2P ocean. What we need to do is find ways of marketing aggresively the better alternatives.

And the Web is, of course, the perfect medium for it. Hell, even Dr. Damn's interview on CNet is a good start, but coverage on the likes of CNN.com, BBC.com or even the less popular media fansites would be excellent. After all, the mainstream apps got covered. Why not the alternatives?

[MusicMan]

I do remember Scour, but I think it was Napster that brought everything into the mainstream. It is true that is was overlooked, but it really didn't last that long as a program. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was Scour that came first, because of that, it should be noted.

[tabclear]

And you're right for the most part. They only thing that really isn’t covered is Open Source networks (like gnutella) - it would be practically impossible to have a company buy out the whole gnutella network.

That’s a good point. I purposely stopped myself from saying any more about Gnutella or P2P in general because I have quite a lot to say on this subject and didn’t want to bore you all (or myself) with seeing it all written down. Gnutella is an interesting subject; I’ll post my full thoughts (sighs loudly) tomorrow.

See you all then.

Tab

[TuRBoLinuX]

sob, sob.

yes, scour is a legend, but it looks like not many remember them as so. alot are still crying 'bout Morpheus, when it was a cheap copy of FT source code. Scour was an original, it started with "all you can take" sharing program. And every user was glad to share ...

[BloodySabbath]

Morpheus wasnt a "cheap copy of FT source code" - they officially licensed the basic client. (Although now Morpheus is a gnucleus clone)
IMO, FastTrack is still one of the best networks around.

[Wolfie]

One reason scour was important ( i do agree it was napster that brought P2P in the mainstream) due the fact that you could trade other kinds of files in addition to just mp3s as in napster.

[MusicMan]

I never really got to know Scour, it really didn't last that long. It shut down right after it was threatned to be sued. Napster on the other hand fought it out. They hired one of the nmost respected lawyers in the country too. That's one reason why Scour was and still is forgotten.

[tabclear]

My thoughts on Gnutella :-

The main reason Gnutella hasn't been targeted by any corporation of any size is because as it currently stands, it just isn't good enough. By its very nature, any progression will mean proprietary changes. An open protocol means the following: No single driving force behind it's progression and continuing incompatibility between client's who "modify" the existing protocol so that everyone has to then play catch up. I can already see the seeds of a proprietary protocol being sown (in walk LimeWire and Bearshare). I used to think LimeWire was doing nothing but good for the Gnutella protocol (and who knows they might be) but the more I look at their website, and hear the phrase 'We propose the following changes' in every other sentence, it seems that they are just waiting for that blank cheque to arrive. The future of gnutella as I see it goes like this: LimeWire keeps modifying the protocol, making more an more major changes in order to stabilise, scale and generally make it more efficient. Taking the good odd idea from other developers and changing them slightly to make them "better". Bearshare and a few others keep up with these changes and make changes of their own which LimeWire then incorporate. Back and forth, back and forth - you get the picture. Mean while the other gnutella software developers are still coming to grips with the original protocol and make clients based on that, or just simply don't have the resource to keep up. LimeWire and its fellowship have now started to block older clients and any client that isn't doing exactly what they are doing. The Network is now stable and the user base large. In walk (Insert mass global company here) and offer to buy LimeWire, they accept and continue to modify and change the protocol with the few other clients keeping up with the changes… The protocol is now so closed; you couldn't wedge an older client in with a crowbar. LimeWire then announce a subscription service as the protocol has mutated so much it bears no resemblance to the original gnutella. The other clients that were keeping up are now blocked out unless they have a large user base, in which case they granted a license to use the protocol as long as they keep on keeping up. If you see what I mean (see Mopheous/FastTrack). LimeWire is now a proprietary protocol you have to pay for. They are making millions, and we are left with the older clients that weren’t keeping up with the changes and are basically where we were a year ago with the gnutella protocol. Still trying to use an unstable and unreliable network with a couple thousand users on it

I hope that made sense. It seemed to in my head, but reading it on the page makes it seem a bit far-fetched. You could substitute the client LimeWire in the above storey with another that you think is more fitting, maybe Bearshare, or one we haven’t even seen yet. But in the end, capitalism wins, we loose. Anyway, that’s my theory on Gnutella - agree or disagree - only time will tell.

Getting back to my original post. I think I was just asking what makes FastTrack so special and why does it always seem to be the networks in the hands of corporate business that are the popular ones. If I could copy the FastTrack protocol code for code, have a UI that’s just the same, and call it SpeedFreak. There’s no way it would be as popular as FastTrack is... I'm having trouble understanding why? It's probably blatantly obvious I just can't see it. Maybe the market is so diluted with substandard networks, that you had to have been there in the golden era of P2P (I know that’s a shit way to phrase it). I don't know. What I’m pretty sure of though is that Gnutella is not the future of file sharing (I really hope that I’m wrong). I think what we need is a protocol that is totally complete and perfect; nothing can be changed to make it any better at what it does because it does it perfectly. So that anyone can build a client for it, they would all be compatible, and no government body could shut it down, and no corporate interest could purchase it. At the moment the only protocol that comes close to being that is - whispers... *Freenet* - Freenet is obviously a while away from being a working network but when it is... well lets just say I think it has promise! In the meantime we have scavenge over what we have and pluck the bits we need from several different sources.

I have great faith in P2P, I think its the way the Internet was meant to be only they rushed into it.

God that was a long rant this time, must remember to take those damn green pills in the morning, the doctor warned me this would happen.

Tab

[BloodySabbath]

A lot of good points made, tabclear! :gj

I have to say though that I dont think a 'mass global company' buying out LimeWire would do them (the company) much good. Since LimeWire has gone open source, anyone can just download the source code (modify it if they want) and recompile it (ie: Dr Damn), so evem if AOL-TimeWarner does purchase the rights to LimeWire and start charging $20 a pop for it, they cant stop people from changing a line or two in the source and releasing it as "CleanLimeWire" :fire

[MusicMan]

DUDE!!! That's gotta be record!!! Longest post ever!!! Also, I agree with pracitcally everything you said there, nice going!!!

[Wolfie]

Its great to see constructive and informed opinions. Keep up the good work everyone