Hispanic Immigrants’ Children Fall Behind Peers Early, Study Finds

[Excrement_Cranium]

The children of Hispanic immigrants tend to be born healthy and start life on an intellectual par with other American children, but by the age of 2 they begin to lag in linguistic and cognitive skills, a new study by researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, shows.

The study highlights a paradox that has bedeviled educators and Hispanic families for some time. By and large, mothers from Latin American countries take care of their health during their pregnancies and give birth to robust children, but those children fall behind their peers in mental development by the time they reach grade school, and the gap tends to widen as they get older.

The new Berkeley study suggests the shortfall may start even before the children enter preschool, supporting calls in Washington to spend more on programs that coach parents to stimulate their children with books, drills and games earlier in their lives.

“Our results show a very significant gap even at age 3,” said Bruce Fuller, one of the study’s authors and a professor of education at Berkeley. “If we don’t attack this disparity early on, these kids are headed quickly for a pretty dismal future in elementary school.”

Read the rest at the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/us/21latina.html?_r=1)

This is one of those points where I'll be an asshole, and not apologize for it.

Having had college classmates that are the children of immigrants, I've noticed that even in college their English speaking, reading, and writing is stunted. In fact, some people who are actual immigrants who came here in adulthood and learned English as adults have better use of the language than these people.

Of course, peer groups and "Spanglish" contribute to this.

The proper course of correction here is to use the old-school American immigrant method: forbid the "native" language around the children, so they can develop their English.

I know, how culturally insensitive of me.

I'll have to look it up - but it's pretty much the American academic attitude that you have a mastery of English - coddling people for "cultural" reasons does them no justice.

[mountain_rage]

Although I learnt English and French at the same time, I find that both were developed poorly. Its only in the last couple years that my English has improved and that is due to necessity.

[Signa]

Although I learnt English and French at the same time, I find that both were developed poorly. Its only in the last couple years that my English has improved and that is due to necessity.
You're still ahead of the American curve if you are bilingual though.

My brother and I were talking about Hispanics the other day. The obvious frustrations about the culture came up, and this article points evidence to bolster what we said. The problem with them isn't the people themselves, but their culture. It's their culture that makes them speak Spanish wherever they go, regardless of education, have an unnaturally high sense of entitlement, and propagates negative stereotypes.

I hate to sound like a Texan redneck, but c'mon, seriously? They don't realize they are guests in the "house," and no one would invite a guest back if they behaved this poorly. It's like a bad room mate that walks in with his dirty shoes, raids the fridge and drinks all the milk from the carton, leaves it out, and then goes and jumps on your bed with his shoes still on while shouting his favorite Brittany Spears song.

I really do not hate them as a people, but the culture pisses me off. I just wish everyone would realize that. Both Americans and Hispanics alike. Right now, the Americans just come off as racists, while the Hispanics are just saying "nuh-uh, I do wha' I want!" Everyone is just a bunch of fucking children.

[mountain_rage]

You're still ahead of the American curve if you are bilingual though.



The weird thing is that the way french and English are structured is almost reversed. So for a long time the structuring of my phrases was just odd. I've discussed this with others that also grew up speaking both languages, and it would appear that its a common issue. The other issue are the words that are interchanged from English and french and how to spell them. Anyway, the point I want to make from all this is that I assume some Hispanics suffer the same problems, even those that have become fairly adept at English. Your brain just works a certain way, and it takes a lot of practice to revert the years of learning some other form of writing.

[El Comandante]

Once upon a time the same attitudes were held concerning Italians. We should all strive to be tolerant and we should all recognize that this is, and forever has been, a nation of immigrants. This fact is easily forgotten when cultures clash. You can expect Hispanic immigrant communities to be assimilated over time just as the Irish, Italians and European Jews were... Their cultural differences will become less and less apparent as time goes on..

Right now we are at the tail end of the largest influx of Hispanics the US has ever seen. Harsh and intolerant attitudes are to be expected. Frustration and irritation are to be expected (I am not suggesting any of you guys are harsh or intolerant)..

I am a first generation Cuban-American. I was born in the US. My children will not be called Cuban-Americans... they will be Americans. My parents came to this country as favored immigrants... invited with open arms by the US government. To this day, a Cuban immigrant is given favored status over all other other immigrant classes when seeking asylum. This of course, has much to do with the politics of the past.

I can't say that I can relate well to Mexicans and their experiences.... but I can sympathize. When I went to graduate school in Southern Indiana the Mexican students told me that I was not a real "Latino" (they do not consider themselves "Hispanics").

My parents worked like dogs and put up with a lot of indignities. They spoke to me in Spanish throughout my life and I speak both languages fluently. They did not keep me from my culture and for that I am grateful. They did, however, constantly put me outside my comfort zone. . . They sent me to a private Baptist school for middle school and high school (we were Catholic) ... and they encouraged me to leave Miami in order to go to college. They recognized that the future was not about holding on to the past or transplanting Cuba to the US.

I recognize that it is rude to speak Spanish in front of non-Spanish speakers. I never do it and I have always told friends and relatives that it is rude and that it makes people uncomfortable. It's easy to do when you are in your community and in your comfort zone. Hasidic Jews speak Hebrew in NY, Italians speak Italian in Long Island and the Chinese speak Chinese in San Francisco. The PROBLEM seems to be that there are a lot more Hispanics and they are increasingly transforming the US with their language and culture. They have businesses, they have political clout and soon they will eclipse all other minorities. It appears that that does not set well with many people. I'm afraid the trend is irreversible, regardless of what Lou Dobbs says.

Rest assured that newly arrived Hispanics will melt in the melting pot like everyone else. The rate at which their children learn and catch up with non-Hispanic children have more to do with poverty and opportunity than anything else.

[Excrement_Cranium]

The rate at which their children learn and catch up with non-Hispanic children have more to do with poverty and opportunity than anything else.

First off, let me say that the "American, not Cuban-American" attitude was the same attitude held by Mexican immigrants in my valley that came in from the 50's until probably the 70's. They didn't leave Mexico to be Mexicans, they came to be Americans.

For that generation, calling them Mexican would be fine as a cultural tag, calling them Mexican-American would be fighting words. Their children? Americans, plain and simple.

Within my family, there were even some of those that went as far as to deny that heritage - "We're Spaniards."

However, the very end of your post hits the nail on the head. While poverty may be proportionally systemic in nature, the greatest portion of that is generational wealth. The sooner you can improve the educational and/or economical level of a family line, the sooner they "integrate."

Money walks, talks, and calls the shots.


Of course, any "civilized" society counts on that low-end, hard-working social class for survival. It just won't disappear. Which is why we always exalt hard work and strong work ethics.


You also kind of reinforced the point of the hamfisted continuation of Latino culture in your statement of being called "not a real Latino." I've witnessed myself a young kid at my store being challenged to fight because he was brown and didn't speak Spanish.

[Signa]

You also kind of reinforced the point of the hamfisted continuation of Latino culture in your statement of being called "not a real Latino." I've witnessed myself a young kid at my store being challenged to fight because he was brown and didn't speak Spanish.
It's exactly that type of thing that I was talking about in my post. It's one thing to be proud of your heritage, it's another to idolize it, and therefore yourself. No one cares where you came from, you're an American now! It's time to eat a lot, get fat, be stupid, and just enjoy life.

[don webb]

.


Hey, maybe we could teach em to be hairdressers, masseuses and nail technicians.

I heard Obama and Team borrowed $2,3000.000 from the stimulus money and sent it to Beauty Schools in the Tampa, Florida area for training........:notworthy:

.

[Excrement_Cranium]

.


Hey, maybe we could teach em to be hairdressers, masseuses and nail technicians.

I heard Obama and Team borrowed $2,3000.000 from the stimulus money and sent it to Beauty Schools in the Tampa, Florida area for training........:notworthy:

.

Gonna have to put people to work somewhere in the service industry since we seem so insistent on outsourcing all of our industrial labor.

[mountain_rage]

.


Hey, maybe we could teach em to be hairdressers, masseuses and nail technicians.

I heard Obama and Team borrowed $2,3000.000 from the stimulus money and sent it to Beauty Schools in the Tampa, Florida area for training........:notworthy:

.

WTF are you trying to represent with that number? What kind of moron puts a coma at the $20 000 mark? Also why do you have 3 decimal places after the period for the location dedicated to the fraction of a dollar, also known as cents? Your either incompetent, or you are an idiot trying to mislead people to believe that is a larger number than it is, either way you make no sense. Not the mention that $23 000, which I assume what payed for some service, is insignificant to the government budget for that kind of service.

[El Comandante]

.

Hey, maybe we could teach em to be hairdressers, masseuses and nail technicians.

.

Maybe someday their kids will grow up to be President.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd252/salamooch/ObamaPointing.jpg

[don webb]

WTF are you trying to represent with that number? What kind of moron puts a coma at the $20 000 mark? Also why do you have 3 decimal places after the period for the location dedicated to the fraction of a dollar, also known as cents? Your either incompetent, or you are an idiot trying to mislead people to believe that is a larger number than it is, either way you make no sense. Not the mention that $23 000, which I assume what payed for some service, is insignificant to the government budget for that kind of service.



Got me there I stand corrected, no excuse except I was in a hurry.

But, $2.3 Million or $2,300,000.00 is what was sent.

Racist, Moron Knuckle Dragging Neanderthals make mistakes too…

You say “insignificant to the government budget”? That is the whole point, what is significant to these democrats on this Spend-O-Thon?

$2.3 Million here $250 Billion there in the end becomes Trillions and what they are asking now for is to raise the Federal Deficit Levels to $17 TRILLION so they can continue the Spend-O-Thon.

Chump Change I suppose?

Of course one not being an American Citizen can speak freely of how insignificant it is without the weight of it on their shoulders.

IMO, a Moron is one who would consider this Chump Change Insignificant.




@ El Comandante; Maybe someday their kids will grow up to be President?


Then they could give us all spanish lessons.......:usa2:

.

[mountain_rage]

Got me there I stand corrected, no excuse except I was in a hurry.

But, $2.3 Million or $2,300,000.00 is what was sent.

Racist, Moron Knuckle Dragging Neanderthals make mistakes too…

You say “insignificant to the government budget”? That is the whole point, what is significant to these democrats on this Spend-O-Thon?

$2.3 Million here $250 Billion there in the end becomes Trillions and what they are asking now for is to raise the Federal Deficit Levels to $17 TRILLION so they can continue the Spend-O-Thon.

Chump Change I suppose?

Of course one not being an American Citizen can speak freely of how insignificant it is without the weight of it on their shoulders.

IMO, a Moron is one who would consider this Chump Change Insignificant.




@ El Comandante; Maybe someday their kids will grow up to be President?


Then they could give us all spanish lessons.......:usa2:

.

You have to remember I was assuming the figure to be $23 000 not $2 300 000. Anyway you still haven't indicated why the money was awarded to the school, and what justification was given. Like any other institution I assume it is entitled to grant money if the need is demonstrated. But you haven't talked about the reasoning at all, so I can't really speculate on the legitimacy.

[don webb]

You have to remember I was assuming the figure to be $23 000 not $2 300 000. Anyway you still haven't indicated why the money was awarded to the school, and what justification was given. Like any other institution I assume it is entitled to grant money if the need is demonstrated. But you haven't talked about the reasoning at all, so I can't really speculate on the legitimacy.


If you are that interested you might try GOOGLE? - "$2.3 Million Stimulus"

I got 150,000 hits in .68 seconds......:smashfreakB:

But, According to a review of available data, 17 percent of the roughly $14 million in Pell Grants being paid to vocational schools in the bay area is going to those teaching cosmetology and massage. The percentage is tough to target precisely because some schools offer both academic and vocational study.

.

[Excrement_Cranium]

So, in other words, after some research it turns out it's throw out big numbers, something that should be a big deal, and overreact because you lack the ability to understand?

Kind of like that whole "3 million dollars studying the DNA of bears in Montana" schtick?

What if I told you that they spent 6 million studying bacteria in the volcanic vents in Yellowstone?

[mountain_rage]

If you are that interested you might try GOOGLE? - "$2.3 Million Stimulus"

I got 150,000 hits in .68 seconds......:smashfreakB:

But, According to a review of available data, 17 percent of the roughly $14 million in Pell Grants being paid to vocational schools in the bay area is going to those teaching cosmetology and massage. The percentage is tough to target precisely because some schools offer both academic and vocational study.

.

The money is going to tuition fees for the students of these institutions. Since these students often come from low income backgrounds, it would appear to be a social program to help the underprivileged break into the job market. Whats wrong with giving tuition grants to a group often overlooked for such educational subsidies?

[don webb]

You say “insignificant to the government budget”? That is the whole point, what is significant to these democrats on this Spend-O-Thon?

$2.3 Million here $250 Billion there in the end becomes Trillions and what they are asking now for is to raise the Federal Deficit Levels to $17 TRILLION so they can continue the Spend-O-Thon.

Chump Change I suppose?


IMO, a Moron is one who would consider this Chump Change Insignificant.

.



So, in other words, after some research it turns out it's throw out big numbers, something that should be a big deal, and overreact because you lack the ability to understand?

Kind of like that whole "3 million dollars studying the DNA of bears in Montana" schtick?

What if I told you that they spent 6 million studying bacteria in the volcanic vents in Yellowstone?

I'll just qoute my other post for your answer......:sad:

.

[Excrement_Cranium]

I'll just qoute my other post for your answer......:sad:

.

And you would then be the moron who complained about the "chump change" that revolutionized medicine.

I'll admit to baiting, though. I know you don't know a shit-squirt about science, and that you don't care.

You don't see how random research leads to discovery, which leads to innovation, which easily pays for itself.

The study of bacteria in volcanic vents in Yellowstone lead to the discovery of enzymes that have a high heat tolerance, and revolutionized DNA replication. This in turn lead to the development of seeding yeast cells with the gene to secrete human insulin.

No more pig insulin, better results. Better health. Less health cost from diabetics on the public health system.

But, I know, You don't worry about such things, you worry about the 67 cents you contributed to something you lack the ability to understand.

[Signa]

And you would then be the moron who complained about the "chump change" that revolutionized medicine.

I'll admit to baiting, though. I know you don't know a shit-squirt about science, and that you don't care.

You don't see how random research leads to discovery, which leads to innovation, which easily pays for itself.

The study of bacteria in volcanic vents in Yellowstone lead to the discovery of enzymes that have a high heat tolerance, and revolutionized DNA replication. This in turn lead to the development of seeding yeast cells with the gene to secrete human insulin.

No more pig insulin, better results. Better health. Less health cost from diabetics on the public health system.

But, I know, You don't worry about such things, you worry about the 67 cents you contributed to something you lack the ability to understand.


Ohhhh BURRRRRRRN!!!

[don webb]

The money is going to tuition fees for the students of these institutions. Since these students often come from low income backgrounds, it would appear to be a social program to help the underprivileged break into the job market. Whats wrong with giving tuition grants to a group often overlooked for such educational subsidies?


Did I say anywhere that there was anything wrong with this?….Ahhhhhhhh NO.

Or did you read some subliminal message into my post ?.:dunno:

I didn’t even mention the fact that, “Only 1 to 2 percent of beauty school graduates will be working in the field five years from graduation, according to Bonnie Poole, treasurer of the Florida Cosmetology Association.”

Or that, a course of study in cosmetology that can last almost a year, and some of these schools charge $12,000, considerably more than an in-state student spends for a year at the University of Florida, the state's flagship.

My suggestion was that “Hey, maybe we could teach em to be hairdressers, masseuses and nail technicians.”

Being that “those children fall behind their peers in mental development by the time they reach grade school, and the gap tends to widen as they get older and these kids are headed quickly for a pretty dismal future,” I suppose becoming hairdressers, masseuses and nail technicians would be better than becoming a burden to Society!

My reference was to the Spend-O-Thon not a complaint of spending for educational benefits.

That is unless they become a Community Organizer or President of the United States anyway.......:pat:






And you would then be the moron who complained about the "chump change" that revolutionized medicine.

I'll admit to baiting, though. I know you don't know a shit-squirt about science, and that you don't care.

You don't see how random research leads to discovery, which leads to innovation, which easily pays for itself.

The study of bacteria in volcanic vents in Yellowstone lead to the discovery of enzymes that have a high heat tolerance, and revolutionized DNA replication. This in turn lead to the development of seeding yeast cells with the gene to secrete human insulin.

No more pig insulin, better results. Better health. Less health cost from diabetics on the public health system.

But, I know, You don't worry about such things, you worry about the 67 cents you contributed to something you lack the ability to understand.


I complained of “chump change” that revolutionized medicine…….??

Is your reference to my complaint about $250 Billion of Tax Payers money being used as a Bribe to buy the American Medical Association’s support for the health-care bill, an agenda of our Community Organizer and Chief?

If so, that has absolutely nothing to do with revolutionizing medicine or Science of any kind, or my knowledge or lack of knowledge on the matter?

.