Really Hacked Off

[Neil Unpaid]

I went to a lot of trouble making a DVD. I copyrighted it. I sold it by mail order. I sold 500. It cost me far more. Someone uploaded it on one of the bit torrent style sites and sales have stopped. 6000 copies have b een downloaded, at least. My new young business is going to go under. Satisfied?

[1cooldude]

Welcome to the digital age. Don't want to sound like a total ass, but if Sony and many other labels can not protect their material, what made you think that you could accomplish that task? I would tell you that you business was doomed as soon as you decide to draw your revenues on dvd sales.
I don't suppose you had a business plan before you started the business, because in your research you would have found that this would not be a great idea. Hope you have better luck in your next business venture.

[Tic3]

Satisfied?

Not yet. But I will be once I finish downloading my copy.

[Neil Unpaid]

Yup, lots of plans and lots of research. Of course I had no idea that morality had stopped so low. Hope you live in a country that eventually taxes your ISP's heavily, rather along the lines of the people that I pay for the use of their music. You need to review your thinking. Or perhaps you are proto communists? That worked for Russia.

[fleecy]

why are you complaining about this on a site devoted to downloading for free? you're not going to find sympathy here.

[1cooldude]

Yup, lots of plans and lots of research. Of course I had no idea that morality had stopped so low. Hope you live in a country that eventually taxes your ISP's heavily, rather along the lines of the people that I pay for the use of their music. You need to review your thinking. Or perhaps you are pro to communists? That worked for Russia.

you must have checked my profile comrade..I was born in Russia.In fact, check my biography where I tell you all the flaws with the capitalism. I just hope you can read Russian.
As far as my thinking goes, I wasn't the one who decided to go into a business that has a rather negative sloped revenue and was doomed to fail from beginning. Come to think, all the bitching is coming from you and I am just offering a shoulder to cry on. If I was a hard core s.o.b., I would have to charge you or direct you to our complaint department, and they are not half as nice as me. Since we've allotted this time to examine your flawed business model, could you at least tell us what your next business venture will entail so I can give some notice to my proletariat brothers.

[thepuzzler]

Or you could just get a real job like the rest of us do.

OT: True communism has never existed. True Communism would be paradise. I always find it funny when people try to use it as a slur.

[Neil Unpaid]

Well, unless someone gently offers you a reasonable and I think fairly decent counter view you yourselves won't reflect on it. It has to be a given that if you come and dig my yard, I'll pay you. Or if you sell me a car, I'll pay you. Or if you write a piece of software for me, I'll pay you. I just don't get the attitude in this. If someone can explain to me the logic that excludes the need to pay for something created, and for which rights are clearly proclaimed on the DVD and cover, I'll be more sympathetic. I've done a load of free films for the web, not expecting to be paid. For this one, I merely ask to be paid. There is a simple choice between saying "No" I don't want the paid copyrighted one, or "Yes", but it's money and I cannot afford it. I'm not angry with individuals, it's the politic of it.

[Neil Unpaid]

Ah well, there you go. A real job. Like the people who employ you? They must have started a business and then offered you a job, for which you now get paid. Or perhaps it's the government that employ you, using funds paid for in taxes from people who created businesses in the first place? I did work for someone, then decided I wanted to do my own thing. I did not get any allowances or grants, I did not get welfare, I worked part time to fund it.

Any useful answers to this conundrum out there?

[1cooldude]

Ah well, there you go. A real job. Like the people who employ you? They must have started a business and then offered you a job, for which you now get paid. Or perhaps it's the government that employ you, using funds paid for in taxes from people who created businesses in the first place? I did work for someone, then decided I wanted to do my own thing. I did not get any allowances or grants, I did not get welfare, I worked part time to fund it.

Any useful answers to this conundrum out there?


at this juncture..I am afraid, NO.

[YWD67]

So you come here to ZP rather then to the torrent forum that your DVD is supposedly being shared at.

Why have you no contacted that site and adviced them of your copyright being infringed?

Why this site out of thousands of others have you come to complain about your lack of proper action?

[Neil Unpaid]

Don't you like a reasonable discussion?

[fleecy]

he does make a valid point- why not discuss this at the site in question? why here?

[1cooldude]

Well, unless someone gently offers you a reasonable and I think fairly decent counter view you yourselves won't reflect on it. It has to be a given that if you come and dig my yard, I'll pay you. Or if you sell me a car, I'll pay you. Or if you write a piece of software for me, I'll pay you. I just don't get the attitude in this. If someone can explain to me the logic that excludes the need to pay for something created, and for which rights are clearly proclaimed on the DVD and cover, I'll be more sympathetic. I've done a load of free films for the web, not expecting to be paid. For this one, I merely ask to be paid. There is a simple choice between saying "No" I don't want the paid copyrighted one, or "Yes", but it's money and I cannot afford it. I'm not angry with individuals, it's the politic of it.

your expression of ideas is clear and succinct but I find your expectation rather naive when someone who has been involved in film production did not expect the product to be pirated in these times.

[Neil Unpaid]

I have no idea how to deal with this, that's why I came to the first site I found. Any suggestions how best to tackle this, and some site addresses? Then my friends I shall leave you in peace.

[Neil Unpaid]

You're totally correct - I was naive - I expected a leakage from pirating but not a flood!

[YWD67]

Don't you like a reasonable discussion?

It would be more reasonable and logical for you to direct your questions and statements to those who are supposedly responsible for your problems.

[1cooldude]

I have no idea how to deal with this, that's why I came to the first site I found. Any suggestions how best to tackle this, and some site addresses? Then my friends I shall leave you in peace.

I think the advice that YWD had given is your best choice. Here is a link to something similar of your nature. However, many larger bt trackers will undoubtedly disregard your request as their members do not like when any file is removed (unless it deals with child pornography or police matter).

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/86011/comedian-louis-ck-asks-mininova-uploader-to-remove-content/

Good luck.

[Neil Unpaid]

Thank you that, for listening, and your viewpoints. Neil

[1cooldude]

You're welcome Neil. :)

[mountain_rage]

Think your first mistake Neil is that you assumed your product was good enough for people to want to pay for it. You need to give consumers an incentive to purchase your movie. If your movie is priced too high, or just pure crap, no amount of copyright enforcement will allow it to sell. Those 6000 downloads could be 6000 people who think your movie sucks and are glad they downloaded rather than purchased your film.

Amateur work has very little marketability in the internet age, the best bet is to offer it for free online. Your funds should come from merchandise and advertising sales. If you want to keep relying solely on dvd sales than go right ahead, but you will keep losing money.

[1cooldude]

Think your first mistake Neil is that you assumed your product was good enough for people to want to pay for it. You need to give consumers an incentive to purchase your movie. If your movie is priced too high, or just pure crap, no amount of copyright enforcement will allow it to sell. Those 6000 downloads could be 6000 people who think your movie sucks and are glad they downloaded rather than purchased your film.

Amateur work has very little marketability in the internet age, the best bet is to offer it for free online. Your funds should come from merchandise and advertising sales. If you want to keep relying solely on dvd sales than go right ahead, but you will keep losing money.


very valid point.

[YWD67]

Should have asked what his production was about. If it was homemade porn he was bound to get his film ripped off for sure.

[thepuzzler]

You could always try what this guy did. (http://torrentfreak.com/documentary-filmmaker-supports-bittorrent-uploader-090514/)

" Dear Torrent users,

I thank all of you for your interest in my film. When I read the book Blue Gold, I knew immediately I must utilize my film talents to relay the urgency of prioritizing our fresh water management for the survival of our race. I had no idea of the financial and physical risks that making this film would entail at the time, and if I did I honestly would not have made the film. Luckily for the world, the film exists, and so it is my goal to follow the advise of the first press review which proclaimed “Every person on the planet must see this film”. In this respect I thank godcanjudgeme for uploading this torrent and bringing a new audience to the film.

I have seen film festival audiences around the world transformed by the stories of the heroes of the water wars. I am thrilled that in the US and Canada the DVD is available via shoppbs.org and amazon.ca respectively. I respect the internet community that chooses to view films through torrents like this for whatever reason. In fact my first documentary, Hackers Wanted, focuses on the philosophy of true hackers and their journeys exploring cyberspace.

It is important to understand that independent films costs a great deal of personal finances to create, in this case over $100,000. In order that I may make other films in the future, I must at least make my money back. I respectfully ask that if you download the film you consider donating $5-$10 to the further publicity of the film via PayPal on my site www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com. Also consider reviewing the film favorably on IMDB and recommending that others buy the DVD.

To be honest, at first I was upset to see this torrent, this film ‘leak’, but some good hacker friends have suggested I embrace the opportunity to reach a new audience, and I feel honored to be doing so!"

[1cooldude]

Should have asked what his production was about. If it was homemade porn he was bound to get his film ripped off for sure.


being somewhat of a "porno connoisseur" I would say with only 6000 bt downloads if it was a porn, it could not have been a very good production. From my experience, if it involves threesomes (and I am explicably talking about two "real" females and a male stud)with some anal scenes, it should do very well (assumption is made that no exclusion follows the credits ie. "No animals were harmed in making of this film.")

[mfgbypooter]

("No animals were harmed in making of this film.")

damn, that leaves my film, "motor oils for the chicken butt holes" out.

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[Signa]

Think your first mistake Neil is that you assumed your product was good enough for people to want to pay for it. You need to give consumers an incentive to purchase your movie. If your movie is priced too high, or just pure crap, no amount of copyright enforcement will allow it to sell. Those 6000 downloads could be 6000 people who think your movie sucks and are glad they downloaded rather than purchased your film.

Amateur work has very little marketability in the internet age, the best bet is to offer it for free online. Your funds should come from merchandise and advertising sales. If you want to keep relying solely on dvd sales than go right ahead, but you will keep losing money.


You could always try what this guy did. (http://torrentfreak.com/documentary-filmmaker-supports-bittorrent-uploader-090514/)

" Dear Torrent users,

I thank all of you for your interest in my film. When I read the book Blue Gold, I knew immediately I must utilize my film talents to relay the urgency of prioritizing our fresh water management for the survival of our race. I had no idea of the financial and physical risks that making this film would entail at the time, and if I did I honestly would not have made the film. Luckily for the world, the film exists, and so it is my goal to follow the advise of the first press review which proclaimed “Every person on the planet must see this film”. In this respect I thank godcanjudgeme for uploading this torrent and bringing a new audience to the film.

I have seen film festival audiences around the world transformed by the stories of the heroes of the water wars. I am thrilled that in the US and Canada the DVD is available via shoppbs.org and amazon.ca respectively. I respect the internet community that chooses to view films through torrents like this for whatever reason. In fact my first documentary, Hackers Wanted, focuses on the philosophy of true hackers and their journeys exploring cyberspace.

It is important to understand that independent films costs a great deal of personal finances to create, in this case over $100,000. In order that I may make other films in the future, I must at least make my money back. I respectfully ask that if you download the film you consider donating $5-$10 to the further publicity of the film via PayPal on my site www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com (http://www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com). Also consider reviewing the film favorably on IMDB and recommending that others buy the DVD.

To be honest, at first I was upset to see this torrent, this film ‘leak’, but some good hacker friends have suggested I embrace the opportunity to reach a new audience, and I feel honored to be doing so!"

If Neil comes back, he had better put special attention to these two posts. Lastly, do some research on the startings of Matt Stone and Trey Parker (the South Park guys). This is exactly how they got their start. If what you were making has real value, and not just another pile of crap in a sea of shit, you WILL get recognized for it.

Edit: I can't say I've shopped around, but Neil, you certainly came to the right place if you wanted to discuss your problems. ZP has a lot of intelligent, rational people who discuss the ins and outs of filesharing... among other things. If you want to give us some more details, we might be able to help you with where you went wrong, what you did right, and what to look forward to.

We've had other people in your position come here before, and we've helped them find solutions to their problems. I remember this one guy that called himself "sarge" who worked for some software distributors, and we gave him a few pointers on how to fix his problems.

[Ranana_undona]

as much as its nice they find people like this... why do you never see a line that says "and were going after the people who took these" or "we will now use this information to find out where the pictures come from and cut off the balls of the culprit that took them."

or is it just me?

[El Comandante]

damn, that leaves my film, "motor oils for the chicken butt holes" out.

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That's you?! It's one of my favorites!:bukkake:

[YWD67]

That's you?! It's one of my favorites!:bukkake:

That reminds me of the old punch line:
"If you think that is funny, last week there was a guy fucking a chiken.

[mfgbypooter]

Don't know about chickens but when fucking ducks you have to break one of their wings so when they try to fly off they just spin like a propeller...

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