Hahah noob starts thread!!!

[Darkmaverick]

So, first off lets get one thing outta of the way, no i am not a computer Noob! With that small and pathetic attempt at coolness, I pose the question. Why has Linux not caught the attention of mainstream America?.. wait the world? Two words; Marketing and Money . Now before all my hardcore Linux brothers/sisters rise up and slay me for even thinking Linux is somehow slacking and not actively attempting to break into the mainstream via Dell and many other major personal computer companies. Not to mention the awesome number of active and progressing updates, including versions of "window like" applications that have overrun college's and intellectual communities world-wide. You have to look at the mainstream media and whats there agenda. There agenda is profit and what is profit to them? Your complience and brand power, if your wondering what brand power is just skip the rest of this post and play minesweeper on your moms computer so that the adults can discuss REAL issues. If not, me and you have an understanding. Linux is not that code heavy and yes it can be confusing for none computer users but why does your average sales associate *cough Best Buy * cough Target *cough Walmart not include comprehensive Linux info like it does for window? Well thats obvious to even the most out of touch individual, Marketing and Money. To break things down for the average American and/or computer user Windows comes installed on almost every major personal computer in the world as a matter of fact the actual statistics are unfair giving windows xp a nearly 89% install rate on prefab home computers in the pre vista era. With this advantage Microsoft has cornered the market on average users and made even simple os (operating system) changes very very hard for the normal user. All in all this is a monopoly which was pointed out in http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm.:devil2 . But why hasent the linux community rised up and called for a fair and complete remodeling of this system? Video games is your reason. Point blank find me a Linux user that has any negative feedback not regarding the lack of gaming software and the ease of window's software installation. GAME SET MATCH! In reality i only started this post because of the lack of post hahah. LINUX USERS SPEAK UP!! It saddens me to see a whole category of debate go dead on a forum agree or disagree, i care not but DISCUSS!!! :icon_salu

[mountain_rage]

Let me start off by saying I'm not a Linux user, nor am I against the idea of using Linux, I've explored the operating system on numerous occasions. In fact, about a year ago, I had it as my default OS for about a month. Now I'm fairly knowledgeable when it comes to computers, I build my own systems, trouble shoot, network, and most of the software I use is Opensource, basically I'm my own tech support/IT specialists. But when it comes to using Linux, its a horse of a different color.

Unlike Windows, most if not all modifications to the operating system requires some underlying knowledge of the coding of the distro, command line interface and programming. Installing software as far as I could figure out requires me to compile code, or use installer programs with their own libraries. Even worse one distro is not cross compatible with anothers causing a ton of confusion about what software will work for which distro. Until the distros create a Single standard default installation you will never see the integration of Linux into the mainstream. They need to make it so when I first install Linux, everything programmed for Linux will work for it unless I chose to use alternative mods.

If they could model Linux to Mac that would be ideal. The transition from Window to Mac streamlined, the interface is intuitive, and everything works. Like Linux, mac has few games, and lower software compatibility. Yet this has not limited its marketability as you have suggested does for Linux. In fact as far as GUI wow factor, Compiz Fuzion blows both Mac and Windows out of the water, it would be easy to gain that cool factor with Linux. You make Linux as easy to use as a Mac, and the transfer of files from windows as seamless and you will start to see a growing number of Linux users. If Wine develops to the point of high compatilibity, like 80 to 90% compatibility to windows, and hordes of users will switch.

[Darkmaverick]

Linux like Firefox is open code, why has this simple Code upgrade not been made is my primary focus of argument. Not to disagree with your opinion (my view is lets agree to disagree) but the program is out there and lighter and less crash prone than windows the worlds most popular os. what stops its growth?

[thelastfreeman]

Protip: Use carriage returns[enter key]. Only bots do wall o' texts

[mountain_rage]

Linux like Firefox is open code, why has this simple Code upgrade not been made is my primary focus of argument. Not to disagree with your opinion (my view is lets agree to disagree) but the program is out there and lighter and less crash prone than windows the worlds most popular os. what stops its growth?

Because most of the subculture originally involved in Linux were elitists programmers with this mentality that everyone should become them, in other words learn the underlying structure of an operating system. Its only recently that you started getting companies like Ubuntu and Lindows (or whatever its called now) looking at how to make Linux more mainstream. These companies have shifted efforts to a more user friendly, human compatible operating system. Considering the huge strides we have seen from Linux in the last 5 years, I can only assume the next 5 to 10 might bring forth a real contender.

[Darkmaverick]

hehe noob mistake





or is it............

[Darkmaverick]

Because most of the subculture originally involved in Linux were elitists programmers with this mentality that everyone should become them, in other words learn the underlying structure of an operating system. Its only recently that you started getting companies like Ubuntu and Lindows (or whatever its called now) looking at how to make Linux more mainstream. These companies have shifted efforts to a more user friendly, human compatible operating system. Considering the huge strides we have seen from Linux in the last 5 years, I can only assume the next 5 to 10 might bring forth a real contender.

This is what I was after mountain_rage! But where is the media push? Is it even possible? I say no, Which is what i was hoping to get people address (not as fast as you replied lol) but none the less my overall goal, a Linux thread should never die thanks for your input! Lets keep the discussion open.

[mountain_rage]

This is what I was after mountain_rage! But where is the media push? Is it even possible? I say no, Which is what i was hoping to get people address (not as fast as you replied lol) but none the less my overall goal, a Linux thread should never die thanks for your input! Lets keep the discussion open.

You talking about advertising??? If that is your question I have to assume its because the economics don't make sense for the organizations. They are getting some exposure thanks to Netbooks, 1 laptop per child, and the internet. But I highly doubt you will see advertising until the projects are at a point where they feel compatible with the home market. You are starting to see prebuilt systems being advertised, but its only just starting. Like I mentioned above, easy to use Linux is a recent phenomenon, and what we are seeing now is a result of this exposure. Again I say give it 5 to 10 years, you will be hearing more and more about Linux.

Quite frankly I expect people to learn more and more about OpenSource alternatives such as Firefox and OpenOffice. Then after that shift you will start to see some of those users move to Linux.

[w31n3r]

Because most of the subculture originally involved in Linux were elitists programmers with this mentality that everyone should become them...

linux is an elitist OS. it has it's head so far up it's ass it can't see that what people really want is to be able to get what needs to be done without having to research sometimes for days. trying to setup SLi is a real hoot on linux (but silly me, there are no games to play are they?). and the prospect of adding on a new sound/WiFi/any card gives me a real hard on.

Netbooks. thats all linux is good for atm. MR 's hit the nail on the head on this one. the good news is, it looks like linux's going to get better. gaming consoles will soon relegate the PC gaming experience to history, and windows 7 will make piracy impossible. that, surely will open the field a little.

[Darkmaverick]

linux is an elitist OS. it has it's head so far up it's ass it can't see that what people really want is to be able to get what needs to be done without having to research sometimes for days. trying to setup SLi is a real hoot on linux (but silly me, there are no games to play are they?). and the prospect of adding on a new sound/WiFi/any card gives me a real hard on.

Netbooks. thats all linux is good for atm. MR 's hit the nail on the head on this one. the good news is, it looks like linux's going to get better. gaming consoles will soon relegate the PC gaming experience to history, and windows 7 will make piracy impossible. that, surely will open the field a little.

All in all your piracy argument is valid. Although to believe that consoles like xbox 360 and playstation 3 will relegate the gaming market is silly. Don't get me wrong i don't doubt nor disagree with the fact that console gaming is on the rise if not more popular than PC gaming.

What i do disagree with is the rise in computer literacy and overall knowledge that is sweeping the globe. We live in a time of constant update and improvement. Why has the PC fallen behind? That's simple MARKETING!!! If you even attempt to argue that console games are somehow more entertaining and interactive, you have fallen into the trap of Microsoft and major leading developers. PC's are the international standard of personal expression and world-wide community.

Why has the most popular os (among computer guru's) not developed faster? That is the underlying question. Not if its is better. Not if its been harder for the average user, but why major investment has not been made? Any serious Linux user can tell you that simple Google searches reveal the ease and copy paste method that many Linux companies have produced. Don't think for one moment that its impossible for any experienced high school computer Science teacher to improve overall Linux use. The facts are (prove me wrong please...) that Linux has neglected a obvious marketing plan that any reasonable individual would see as common sense. That information is power, ask the oldest computer user your know what Linux is... I don't have to even explain the confusion.

[w31n3r]

All in all your piracy argument is valid. Although to believe that consoles like xbox 360 and playstation 3 will relegate the gaming market is silly. Don't get me wrong i don't doubt nor disagree with the fact that console gaming is on the rise if not more popular than PC gaming.

how is that silly if indeed you do agree that "console gaming is on the rise if not more popular than PC gaming." playing games ported to the PC platform sucks great donkey balls. ask any gamer. how can i justify shelling out $200+ for VGA cards every 6 months to play ported games? game developers have already put PC platform specific games on the back burner since (probably) they're so easy to crack. it's better to make a console game and port it to PC as an afterthought.



If you even attempt to argue that console games are somehow more entertaining and interactive, you have fallen into the trap of Microsoft and major leading developers. PC's are the international standard of personal expression and world-wide community.

i never said consoles were entertaining. they only let me watch HD, play games, stream music, get online, the usual. not once has my console given me a blowjob. i want a refund!!


The facts are (prove me wrong please...) that Linux has neglected a obvious marketing plan that any reasonable individual would see as common sense. That information is power, ask the oldest computer user your know what Linux is... I don't have to even explain the confusion.

you're right about that but we should remember that linux didn't start out as a competitor of microshit err microsoft. it was a bunch of disorganised developers for a long time that put it in the shadows. plus, it's free. i don't care how generous one might be, you'll still be hard pressed to even come close to MS ad budget when your product sells at $0.

i think i'm being reasonable when i say that linux, BSD, etc, have to really clean up their act before they can even think about challenging MS on popularity. MR hit it on the head when he said that they have to introduce a uniform installation package manager. they don't even have to work hard to port windows apps since they have so many great apps already, just make the linux apps be able to open files from their closed source app (if that makes any sense). i'd switch to OOo in a heartbeat before having to buy office again.

[Excrement_Cranium]

All you have to do is make Linux idiot proof and idiot accessible. Then it will go grass-roots ala firefox.

People are willing to share the next great thing in software, so long as they don't have to teach their friends and family how to use it.

[stevejnr]

All you have to do is make Linux idiot proof and idiot accessible. Then it will go grass-roots ala firefox.

People are willing to share the next great thing in software, so long as they don't have to teach their friends and family how to use it.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Its not about the lack of willingness to share a great product (ive been using ubuntu server on my dedis for years) Its about the willingness of people to accept new things. On the most part people start on windows (or DOS as it was when i began) and through the corporate handshakes that associated comapnies like IBM and Micro$oft have with each other, the mainstream of people are brought up this way. There was a time years ago when if someone said "linux" to me i'd have crapped myself and said no thanks.

Without stiring too much of a debate about which is the best, it is very clear that altough not as user friendly with it command line approach on some systems, linux/unix and every other platform name for it IS more stable, it IS faster on the whole than windows OS's it just hasnt had the same sort of structural growth (and money ploughed into it) that the more 'user friendly' GUI's from M$.

People on the whole are starting to realise though that a linux system can be better, and as has been said, with the onslaught of the new netbook generation of 'little lappys' with their sometime time 8Gb of HD space and limited memory, linux is proving to be a fast and stable system to roll out to the market.

In the same way that mainstream comuting really took offf when M$ deceided to add pretty little pictures to DOS and call it Windows. Ubuntu has done it for Linux, its will just take a LOT of work to convince people that Ubuntu (for example) is BETTER than Windows, whereas back in the day, most people coudlnt help but think Windows was better and more user friendly than DOS.... because for the General Public... it was.

The biggest thing that Linux systems have for them is the fact that they are open source. A dedicated server runing a linux system will cost you around 200 quid a year less than the same box running a windows system and with the push to make computing cheaper and more accesible, biggger companies IMO are going to start favouring the free open source systems to bring their product prices down and not have to pay the OEM license fees to Microsft anymore.

[Excrement_Cranium]

Well, there are some cash-invested distros out there that do the hand-holding required to break in new users, but they aren't really used by hardcore Linux-heads. Why? The bloat required to integrate hand-holding features takes away from the lightweight speed of the OS, which is one reason people switch over to begin with.


I know that just before I bought my new machine, I had XP on my old machine so fit and trim, I hardly recognized it as the retard-friendly bloated OS I had avoided for so long.

Windows can be trimmed down, but just like Linux, it takes time to learn the system.


These things are not in the interest of the Myspace/Youtube generation, nor of the Two-thousand dollar deck of solitaire cards crowd.

[Darkmaverick]

Well guys and gals,
I have to say this thread has produced some great dialogue! XP did make leaps and bounds before Vista hit the market, and yeah you make a great point cranium.

I just wonder with the overall user knowledge increasing each year when we will see OS streamlining and all of these "hand-holding" OS die? Heck i don't actually believe that lol! which brings me to my next point, is the home computer becoming more difficult or easier for your parents to use? I believe its becoming harder despite the "hand-holding" OS that windows and Mac produce because its taking the basic computer knowledge and ASSUMING its to hard for the average person.

From personal experience i can tell you that even the noobiest of the noobs aka me haha, with enough practice can learn linux. That said whats your view on OS development and where would you focus the next generation of computer users to learn.?

Cause lets face it if the OS is the best your gonna learn it!!!!