My 2 cents

[sleepischeap]

About the RIAA's claims that me downloading music decreases their sales. This is completely wrong. I have never bought music, nor would i if p2p wasnt around. You can't lose sales you never had in the first place.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

well im sure the bigwigs at the RIAA will be sleeping easier in their bed at nights having had your 2 cents.

[HansG]

heheh grab_grab you couldn't resist could you :-)

[collideous]

Originally posted by sleepischeap
About the RIAA's claims that me downloading music decreases their sales. This is completely wrong. I have never bought music, nor would i if p2p wasnt around. You can't lose sales you never had in the first place.

Hmm, I never bought a TV, nor will I ever. If I walk into the Circuit City, grab myself a TV set and run back out the door, did I create a loss? I never intended to buy one in the first place.

Now before coming back saying that a recording and a physical item like a TV are not the same, look at it more closely. In fact, the effects of downloading and sharing such goods as music are far worse than stealing a TV set. Afterall, you can't easily replicate the TV and pass copies over to friends.

Use file-sharing to sample music and explore, support the musicians who put their talents into making things you like to hear. It'd be a loss to mankind, if they hang their guitars to the wall, and go flip burgers at MacDonalds. Just like us, they have bills to pay too.

[nasrules]

good point collideous.

you say that you probably wouldnt buy the cds anyway. im like that but most people jus use that as an excuse.

[Ashitaka]

Originally posted by collideous
Now before coming back saying that a recording and a physical item like a TV are not the same, look at it more closely. In fact, the effects of downloading and sharing such goods as music are far worse than stealing a TV set. Afterall, you can't easily replicate the TV and pass copies over to friends.

But he said that he wasn't going to buy the CDs he's downloading anyway. So what does the RIAA lose from his file-swapping, besides the feeling of satisfaction they get from depriving someone from listening to their favourite music?

And if you argue that they're losing money because other people who would have bought the CDs are downloading it from him, well, he doesn't need to share his files :devil

[maartendc]

Actually, downloading music does affect me. There was a time, about a year ago or so.. when I bought a lot of music. But when I started downloading, I bought less and less cd's... Now, it's about 5 months ago since I bought my last cd or something like that...

[Fallout2man]

Originally posted by collideous
Hmm, I never bought a TV, nor will I ever. If I walk into the Circuit City, grab myself a TV set and run back out the door, did I create a loss? I never intended to buy one in the first place.

Now before coming back saying that a recording and a physical item like a TV are not the same, look at it more closely. In fact, the effects of downloading and sharing such goods as music are far worse than stealing a TV set. Afterall, you can't easily replicate the TV and pass copies over to friends.

Use file-sharing to sample music and explore, support the musicians who put their talents into making things you like to hear. It'd be a loss to mankind, if they hang their guitars to the wall, and go flip burgers at MacDonalds. Just like us, they have bills to pay too.

There is a very big difference. If he walks in and steals a TV, it deprives a paying customer of the right to purchase that TV. Wheras downloading a file deprives no one. Downloading does not decrease the value of the song itself, nor stop anyone else from purchassing and enjoying it. A TV on the other hand, has its value decrease with continued usage and DOES deprive someone else from legitimately purchasing it.

[wonderboy2005]

i guess im a hypocrite. i download all my music, but i agree with collidius.

if i get a file off the net, then start sharing it, even if i wouldn't have bought the music in the first place, it does hurt the artists/industry. if you didnt share that file, then others couldnt download it, and they might go out and buy the cd. buit if you do share it, then peeps can download it from u, and are most likely not going to buy the cd.

i thank you, collidius, for making me feel bad once again about downloading musc. and on christmas eve. have you no heart?

[Crazy Horse]

Use file-sharing to sample music and explore, support the musicians who put their talents into making things you like to hear. It'd be a loss to mankind, if they hang their guitars to the wall, and go flip burgers at MacDonalds. Just like us, they have bills to pay too.

I don't agree at all. I support the "artists" by attending their concerts. ( have you seen the going price for a concert ticket lately?!?!?!). I may also buy an occasional T-shirt. If the "artists themselves are distributing their own music I may buy their CD. I WILL NOT support the industry that rapes me in the store for a ****in CD that cost pennies to make. I WILL NOT buy their mansions or pay for the gas in their limos!!! Flippin burgers?!??! what a laff!

[Fallout2man]

Originally posted by Crazy Horse
I don't agree at all. I support the "artists" by attending their concerts. ( have you seen the going price for a concert ticket lately?!?!?!). I may also buy an occasional T-shirt. If the "artists themselves are distributing their own music I may buy their CD. I WILL NOT support the industry that rapes me in the store for a ****in CD that cost pennies to make. I WILL NOT buy their mansions or pay for the gas in their limos!!! Flippin burgers?!??! what a laff!

Actually you'd be paying for RIAA fatcats' limos and mansions. The artist gets very little of the profit from CD sales. There was a nice article written by Courtney Love that's about two years old, that describes it all pretty well.

[linusaurus]

That's your 2 cents, well here's my 2 cents.

We NEED filesharing!


Future generations will look back upon this 'war' mockingly. In the days of our grandchildren, filesharing will be widespread and people will think of it as senseless for those people back at the turn of the melennia (no, I can't spell) to have tried to block it. The same type of thing is prominant thoughtout history. The printing press was considered a tool of the devil. The argueing was, if books could be printed so quickly, people would stop writing them for lack of motivation. It would kill education. The churches did everything in their power to block it for as long as they could. They wanted to protect their own interests in spite to the general populace. The man who eventually did print out the bible was hung for it. Think if the printing press had never taken off, what would the world be like today? A more recent example is radio. Record companys did everything they could to kill radio. Radio would let people listen to the music for free, it would hurt artists, poeple wouldn't make music anymore, it was about the same old schpeel that we are hearing today, and when FM radio came out, they tried to block that as well. Then came the tape recorder, and VCR. File sharing is just the next step. We must fight to protect this as much as the people who fought to keep radio, tapes, and the printing press. Don't buy into their arguements that its going to ruin the lives of the poor musicians, its just not true. The promotion of file sharing is a good thing for everyone in the world with the exception of a few record company owners and executives who already have more money than they will ever need, and are living very very lavishly.

[gourou]

yeah!

[Tremaine]

these organizations are greedy they just want more money every penny of it. p2p does take away some of there money but looks everyone whos still famous is still rich. yes i still buy cd's, and the fact is you cant stop p2p these company keep p2p going they make the need to create better p2p networks to surpas old ones so yes in so ways the riaa is good for p2p.

[Hauk]

Well Linusaurus, the problem for them is, it's NOT file sharing at all. It's File COPYING against Copyrighted material. For it to be File sharing, things would have to be different.

Let's say I had a pie and I wanted to share it with you. I would split it in half, you take half and I take half. I can't magically duplicate the pie. That's what happens when you download music off the internet.

When someone is sharing a 4 minute song, and you try to download from them. Shouldn't you only get 2 minutes worth of song from them? Leaving the other person who shared with you, 2 minutes also? Isn't that what SHARING is?

Or lets suppose you get all of the song? Shouldn't the person you got it from be without the song until you upload it back to them?

It's not File Sharing. It's making illegal duplicates. So I understand completely what these guys are making a big fuss about.

Don't get me wrong though, although I understand, it doesn't mean that I care or agree with them. I don't care for the RIAA. I download music off the net sometimes too. It's actually been a blessing for me. I find it to be obscene to pay full $ for a CD when there's only 2-3 tracks worth playing, and 15-20 tracks worth of crap. Seriously, does anybody know a band that put out a listenable CD lately? Listenable meaning something I can sit back and listen to without pressing the skip button over and over?

[NDGAARONDI]

linusaurus I never thought it that way.

But dont forget photocopiers - issue with them.

Bloody stupid for hanging that person you mentioned of. Was it in America?

[method77]

Originally posted by maartendc
Actually, downloading music does affect me. There was a time, about a year ago or so.. when I bought a lot of music. But when I started downloading, I bought less and less cd's... Now, it's about 5 months ago since I bought my last cd or something like that... my opinion exactly. Last cd I bought was 6-7 months ago. But...
since filesharing (especially AG) I found out about artists I didn't know so that's a big help to the musicians. The only "artists" I hear complaining about p2p are the very popular ones because they get all the publicity they want anyways (even without the internet). The real artists don't care about filesharing because it's a way for their music to be heard and that's all they want! In fact, I heard many musicians complain about the death of AG because that was a real music community and not just a filesharing prog. It had sections for new artists to show their work! So the bottom line is..who does filesharing hurt? Only the RIAA and "artists" like eminem and madonna. (they wouldn't get my 2 cents anyway)

[12345678910]

I am 16 and I have never bought a single CD in my life. The only few CDs that I have are the ones that I got either for Christmas or my Birthday from my relatives.

Everything else is what I have burned.... I love technology!

Peace,
12345678910

[method77]

well I'm 26 and I've bought more than a thousand cds (and LPs). I would consider buying cds again if the price was about 5 euros. Technology is cheaper nowadays and the only thing that is more expensive is music cds! Now... whose fault is it?

[linusaurus]

It is about breaking copyright, but copyright itself is the problem. I just think that the whole concept of copyright has to be rethought. The current line of thinking about copyright is outdated, it worked in the past but just dosn't work nowadays.

Lets talk about pies again. Music is IP, its not an object like a pie and shouldn't be thought of like the pie itself, but the recipe. Lets say one company made a great pie recipe. Would it be so wrong for someone to make their own pie using the same recipe, and then to cut it into pieces and give them out to friends? Would that count as piracy? On the other hand, if I were to mass produce pies using the their recipe, and then sell them, that would be wrong. The original makers would rightfully deserve a cut. But it surely would not be good for the world if poeple were forced to pay the company that made the recipe every time you made a pie using it. The company would make it so if you wanted to eat their kind of pie, you had to buy from them, and might charge 30$ or more. That would transform the world into a very bad place for everyone who liked pies.

[tipsterno1]

I personally would go out and buy a Cd if the industry wern't ripping you off 4 them. I do mind going out and buying an album as much, but as for buying a single lol Don't think i'll ever do that agian. How can they justify £4 for a single and £15 for an album? 1 song = £4 - 15-20 songs = £15 mmmmmm. My maths isn't brilliant but come on!!!!

[dsllsd]

I never have , nor never will buy a music CD. I however am currently sharing 19.5 Gigs of MP3s

[linusaurus]

Originally posted by dsllsd
I never have , nor never will buy a music CD. I however am currently sharing 19.5 Gigs of MP3s

you rock

[NDGAARONDI]

To dsllsd

Which p2p networks you use then? j/w

Say I always burn my stuff onto CDRs otherwise if something crops up on the computer - then bang goes all my downloads.

[warrior_one2003]

Some interesting arguments both ways. I agree with what linasaurus said last week, that all this discussion will be utterly moot. We are simply enjoying the "fruits of progress" without having to worry about getting executed (I can definitely live with a desist nasty-gram any day of the week). The big picture is 700 million files floating around that people can grab, and grab they will. The movie and music people can tear their hair out till the rooster crows - when the industry finally figures out that it will be better to join us (because they can't beat us - did I say 700 million files? I meant to say 7000 million, hehe...) then we'll be ready for the next big step, like, retro-vinyl. Oh the future is BRIGHT!

[phalkon30]

The reason I buy cds, is because of file sharing, I actually "try before you buy", while still buying

Its also opened me up to new groups and genres of music that I would NEVER have gotten into

[warrior_one2003]

Mmmm, yes. My level of purchasing cd's has actually increased, as I have DISCOVERED more artists through the sharing process... If can't find what I am looking for, I'll fill a shopping cart online somewhere. Who can be upset with that?

[linusaurus]

I would be buying more except for the fact that I know every red cent that I spend on music will end up being used to fund the RIAA's lobbiests and lawyers. So I boycott them, if the labels let up, maybe I'll start buying again.

[warrior_one2003]

It's true that a portion of the proceeds would fund the "machine". And I'll say this right now - they will never let up. You probably will get death before you get liberty. But it is precisely this viewpoint that pisses them off, which is a good thing...

[smashriaamobsters]

Is it illegal to share a book that’s copyrighted? What about libraries? They share books, videos and music CDs.

It is my right to share music, books and movies with anyone I please to. It is not the RIAA’s business. It is not the governments business.

Real piracy is when someone copies the original and produces a bootleg copy for sale and profit. That’s piracy that should be illegal.

Sharing files is my business.

[method77]

Originally posted by smashriaamobsters
Is it illegal to share a book that’s copyrighted? What about libraries? They share books, videos and music CDs.

It is my right to share music, books and movies with anyone I please to. It is not the RIAA’s business. It is not the governments business.

Real piracy is when someone copies the original and produces a bootleg copy for sale and profit. That’s piracy that should be illegal.

Sharing files is my business. Excellent!

[Big_A]

What is the RIAA ?!1

[method77]

Originally posted by Big_A
What is the RIAA ?!1 he is the president of Mexico.

[sleepischeap]

RIAA = Rulers of Iraq against America

[Wolfie]

Originally posted by Big_A
What is the RIAA ?!1

I'm speechless....

[linusaurus]

Originally posted by smashriaamobsters
Is it illegal to share a book that?s copyrighted? What about libraries? They share books, videos and music CDs.

It is my right to share music, books and movies with anyone I please to. It is not the RIAA?s business. It is not the governments business.

Real piracy is when someone copies the original and produces a bootleg copy for sale and profit. That?s piracy that should be illegal.

Sharing files is my business.

Very well put. In fact, concerning your library comparison, if you havn't read this short story, The Right to Read (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html) by Richard Stallman, you should because it shows what's going to happen in the future if the copyright lobbyists keep getting their way.

[ronniebravo]

All have made good points but what I don't understand is why the riaa did not embrace p2p technology. I would be willing to pay a reasonable monthly fee, without limits, in order to download the music that I want. The technology is there and the cat is out of the bag so to speak and they may have missed there chance,possibly, to take full advantage of p2p due to the defensive posturing and the threats the have made over the past months.

[MonkeyMEN RULE]

if i give you my two cents will you give me a hundred dollars?

other than that, i don't get it ... artist say they are for all the fans but then they charge alot of money for their CD's and to enter their concerts... but then when devoted fans want their music they get it and the artist suit... okay...

[smashriaamobsters]

Thanks for the link.
Interesting stuff, kind of scary. There are a lot of excellent links from that page to privacy information that’s worthy of investigation.