PS3 Doomed, Video gaming in real trouble

[Mels_Smileys45]

The Future of the PS3, Blu Ray and HD TV

http://i40.tinypic.com/ou368g.jpg

Many annalists and internet fanbois thought this Christmas would be PS3's year to shine and out sell the other two consoles in the race, the Nintendo Wii and the Microsoft Xbox 360, well so far the PS3 console is selling even LESS than last years numbers. There have even been some well publicized reports (CNN) that are painting the PS3 as a complete failure for Sony Entertainment. No one could have foreseen the economic woes the world would face in late 2008 and now Sony with the most expensive console on the market, is in quite a pickle.

Also hurting Sony is that HD TV sales have slowed down. EXTREMELY slowed down and this hurts Sony with their Blu Ray selling point. If people are unable to upgrade their TV to an expensive HD model then Blu Ray is a moot point. The CNN article points out that many people are happy to stick with the DVD format. This is probably because they are not willing or able to upgrade to the expensice Blu Ray format along with a HD TV. To switch over to Blu Ray and HD TV requires a lot of $$$ and most people just can't do that right now. All this spells DOOM for Sony's PS3!

This time there is no arguing the facts. The writing is on the wall and in bold letters. Sony can not continue to lose money on this console in the economic crunch and expect to stay above water forever.

So far this year the Wii and the 360 are selling at a fairly decent pace with no signs of that changing this Christmas.

The Gaming Market in General

Its starting to look like we will see a greatly downsized gaming market in the near future. Many game makers are reporting record loses. Many of the gaming fans have actually played a part in the downfall of the gaming hobby with a flipant attitude about supporting the industry. Ive been saying it for years. Support the industry and hobby you love or you will lose it! Well the time is now people. Either buck up and buy some games or next year the games will slow to a trickle! Its up to us to save the industry, there will not be a bailout for video games.

[drtoker]

TOTAL SALES TO DATE:
360 (nov2005-now) - 25 million (8.3m per year average)
PS3 (nov2006-now) - 18 million (9.0m per year average)

Considering the 360 had an extra selling year, the ps3 is doing just fine, thanks for the concern though!

[Sjupromille]

I once had a though of buying a PS3 but then i changed it and told myself i have to be more carefull in what i invest especially if the thing is a tec and 1 year old. I wait for the PS4 and will invest it on the realease day. I have to stay with PC games atleast for 2-3 years

[Mels_Smileys45]

TOTAL SALES TO DATE:
360 (nov2005-now) - 25 million (8.3m per year average)
PS3 (nov2006-now) - 18 million (9.0m per year average)

Considering the 360 had an extra selling year, the ps3 is doing just fine, thanks for the concern though!

I don't own any of the consoles so I am just telling it like it is. (why didn't you give some Wii Figures? The Wii has been out about the same length of time as the PS3. Because its like 43 MILLION! huh? Say what???)


Wii = 43 MILLION
PS3 = 18 million

Complete bomb!

You totally missed the point. I figured a few fans would. It doesnt matter what they sold in the past, even though sales have been slow, the problem is the sales are getting MUCH worse!

The FACT is the sales are down, way down and are expected to drop even more. If PS3 doesn't gain a lead this X-mas it will be too late and they will have missed this round of the console battle. This isn't just my opinion. The PS3 is a total failure for Sony. They have lost millions on this console and will continue to do so. It could possibly break the already in trouble company. The PS2 is the only saving grace for Sony. It still sales well. When a companies old console still sales very well even though they have a new one on the shelf, for a long time, then something is wrong with that console. Sony screwed up but tis not totally their fault. No one could have foreseen these events that have killed the PS3.

[drtoker]

The holiday sales figures used for this year consisted of 2 days. In the past holiday sales numbers, they used 5 days. This skewed the numbers drastically for this year, and of course, showed a loss.

I'll try to dig up some references and numbers for ya.

The ps3 sales are fine, this year included.

[Mels_Smileys45]

The holiday sales figures used for this year consisted of 2 days. In the past holiday sales numbers, they used 5 days. This skewed the numbers drastically for this year, and of course, showed a loss.

I'll try to dig up some references and numbers for ya.

The ps3 sales are fine, this year included.


I think you just pulled that out of your ass. I just did the research my friend. Read a few market annalist reviews while youre at it. I don't know why you care to dispute the facts unless you own the company.

But what ever. Post until your fingers bleed. It will not save the doomed PS3 and it will not outsell any of the consoles this year, next year or ever. Sorry, game over. Sony totally lost this race. How can you say other wise?

Personally I don't know how Sony can continue to support this money losing turd. Mind you, I wouldn't mind owning one of these turds because there are a few games I like but its just too expensive to buy for a few games. That is just my opinion and my situation right now.

[Hath]

I think I will stick with my XBOX 360. :)

[mountain_rage]

PS3 is not a total failure, as its probably going to sell as many units as the Gamecube, or maybe even the Xbox did last generation. It also allowed Sony's Blue Ray format to win the format war. Were it not for the PS3 I'm certain they would of lost that battle. It is however a failure if you look at video game market share. But any long time gamer will tell you that the console market is unpredictable, and market share means piss all to fans. Sony losing top spot is not a surprise and allot of people predicted it so I don't think its much of a death blow. They are just learning what numerous companies before them have, gamers have no loyalty.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Its not a total failure but it is bad. Its also very bad for Sony over all. The comapny has been suffering financially and it wanted to lose money on every console to win the gaming console war. It didn't work and Sony is still losing money on it. How long can Sony suffer loses on the console before writing it off? Seems like a dumb question but the entire electronic market is CRASHING! To allow the company to keep losing millions on the PS3 when they know they have lost the console battle has to be a hard pill to swallow.

One thing for sure. We will not see a new round of console wars for a long time. This will benefit PS3. With the gaming crash it will not be likely the console makers will want to invest in or rush to make another expensive product. We will see.

[drtoker]

Yea, why would anyone want to post facts if its not their company... Hmm, I wonder...

And I never said they would outsell anything, let alone the wii. Hell, the Microsoft won't even admit they are in the same league as the wii, so thats a bit off topic.

As for doomed, they are selling just as many consoles as the 360 yearly to date. So if the ps3 is failing, so is the 360.

My only argument was that its not doomed, which it is not, not by a long shot. Sales figures show that, no argument can be made otherwise.

[mountain_rage]

Don't think they will stop the developement of the PS3 so long as its making profit. If I recall correctly they are now making a profit of every console sold, not sure what the current attach rate is, but that would be another good indicator of its strengths. With the Gamecube Nintedo made a shitload of profit even tho it was not "successful" by critics. You don't have to be #1 to make money on consoles. With 30-40million sales they will still clean up.

[zombieho]

Not sure it's a complete failure, I think it's more that we can't afford it right now. It's the most expensive console on the market. Is it worth it? I can't say, don't have one. This year we're getting an Xbox 360. a couple years ago that may have been a present to just one kid while the others got the one big thing they wanted and some other stuff. This year it's for the whole family cause I can't afford to get much. This year sucked for us, more so the later part of the year. I lost my job and was out of work for a couple months. Just now getting back to normal and with it being Christmas it's harder. I'd like to have a PS3, but it's going to go on layaway early in the year next year and that will be the biggie. Next year I won't be waiting til the end of the year to shop, lol. There are too many people without jobs this season to be spending big like that. In my area in TN alone there is over 20,000 that have lost their job and are still unemployed according to the news the other night. And this is all over the country. So it can't be a surprise to Sony that people aren't spending that money with them.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Don't think they will stop the developement of the PS3 so long as its making profit. If I recall correctly they are now making a profit of every console sold, not sure what the current attach rate is, but that would be another good indicator of its strengths. With the Gamecube Nintedo made a shitload of profit even tho it was not "successful" by critics. You don't have to be #1 to make money on consoles. With 30-40million sales they will still clean up.

Edit: Ahh back up a second. The PS3 will need to sell well more than 40 million to make up for the money it has already lost on every unit.


Yeah, I think I did read they made a few bucks now, not much but that was only on one package of the PS3. That may have changed. Its still not enough to make them enough money to get back what they have already lost on the PS3. It will have to sell well for a few years to break out of the red. The Wii has turned a profit from day one.

All this isn't the point of this thread. The point being its almost a dead system sales wise. It is still limping along but its a distant third to the Wii. Also... it has no hope of selling enough units to ever be number one and with the slowing sales of PS3, while the 360 is outpacing its sales from last year, the nail is in the coffin.

[zombieho]

Lol and what i forgot to say is personally, I think they overpriced it. Yeah, it's got great graphics, you can watch awesome movies, etc. You can do that with the XBox as well. And while the Wii may not have all the great games the other two do, it's a really great system. But Sony did what they usually tend to do and overpriced a system because, as Mel said, fanbois went out and bought it and keep screaming PS3! It hit the market with too many bugs for me to want want last year. So its never been on the top of my list.

[drtoker]

Ok, your article and title are grosely misleading. Obviously you are stating:
The ps3 will never be #1, ever.

Ok, we all agree on that (for this year)

That does not mean pack it up and quit sony. It does not spell disaster. A console maker does not have to be #1 to be successful. Try to be more clear on the points you are making and stop making broad leaps like 'not being #1 = failure'

[Excrement_Cranium]

MS and Sony won't discuss the Wii because it doesn't compete in the "Ooohh... shinies!" department.


Not to mention, the universal appeal the Wii feeds on. A good chunk of people who bought the Wii would have never bought a PS3 or 360. The old folks home where I work has a Wii.


Nintendo successfully captured the octogenarians and Bejeweled crowd.

[Signa]

I think Mel is definitely overstating the issue, however, I DO NOT see any brightness for the PS3 in the future. Hell, I don't see much brightness in the future for gaming in general.

There was a similarly themed thread over on Somethingawful that I read last night, and this post really hit home for me:


1998 - Starcraft, Unreal, Half Life, Tribes, Fallout 2, Grim Fandango, Thief, Baldur's Gate
1999 - Planescape Torment, System Shock 2, Homeworld, Baldur's Gate Expansion, Alpha Centauri, Counter Strike, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Arena, The Longest Journey -- XBox announced
2000 - Deus Ex, Diablo 2, Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate 2, Red Alert 2, Homeworld Expansion, Thief 2
2001 - Civ 3, Serious Sam, Max Payne -- Xbox and Halo come out.
2002 - Morrowind(cross-platform), Warcraft 3, Neverwinter Nights
2003 - Battlefield 1942, Call of Duty, Homeworld 2, Max Payne 2

This is mainly off of memory, but you can see the XBox effect here. Games that were in development before the XBox announcement finished development in 2000 and came out(with a few exceptions). After that there's this long period of nothing much but FPSes and one or two high quality games in other genres hitting PCs. Entire genres all but died off as MS cannibalized PC gaming to prop up their console. We went from a golden era to the wilderness almost overnight. Some series were utterly ruined as they were "dumbed down for the console tards", like Deus Ex. MS also charges you for things that were always free on the PC, so it's a wonder why there's resentment.

slightly off topic, as it's talking about the Xbox, but it also is illustrating my point that gaming has been going down the shitter. As it is, the games ive been playing over the last month is Doom, Doom2, Doom 3 + expansion, Fallout 1, and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. ALL old games. Games are supposed to evolve, yet they are getting dumber as time goes on, and not improving themselves like they used to.

[Excrement_Cranium]

Blame the shiny factor and huge companies like EA for it. The market is cannibalizing itself.


Game development has turned in to a multi-year process involving tens and hundreds of millions in development costs. Publishers aren't willing to take the risk.


Fortunately, you have PS Home, Xbox Live, and Wiiware, which are all starting to pick up on smaller independent developers. Developers that are trying to make fun games, or games that are simple, yet visually stunning or innovative in their own way. The handhelds are getting a glut of those games, as well.


Another position of blame is in gamers themselves. "Hardcore" gamers always like to make the "dumbed down" argument, but what good is a game if it's only enjoyable to play for a relatively small crowd?

I've watched the "dumb down" argument seep into the WoW community with the new expansion. What I've seen so far in the new content blows the work on the previous expansion and the original out of the water. New content actually has the world change for the individual player as they progress, which did not happen in previous sections.


The crying came in when a group of hardcore players breezed through all the content that was available at launch, and then they whined that it was too easy.


Too easy?


Well, hell. If I had 8-10 hours every day to play, I'm sure that I'd breeze through, too. In a game that relies more on wise time investment rather than skill, easy is a matter of what kind of time you have to invest.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Ok, your article and title are grosely misleading. Obviously you are stating:
The ps3 will never be #1, ever.

Ok, we all agree on that (for this year)

That does not mean pack it up and quit Sony. It does not spell disaster. A console maker does not have to be #1 to be successful. Try to be more clear on the points you are making and stop making broad leaps like 'not being #1 = failure'


Its okay to state your own opinion sir but please don't tell me to stop making mine. You want to state yours then you write an article and post it. I would encourage you to do so.

This artcle is my opinion but its also the opinion of many market annalist. It is a failure for Sony Entertainment as a money making venture. It may have sold enough units for game makers to still support it but PS3 would have to sell, I don't really know a number... I would guess more than 80 million high priced units, to get Sony out of the red with this console. I am not sure they will ever get out of the red. That is a failure in a business sense.

It was reported that Sony lost $300 on every unit sold in the first year of sales. On a low ball figure, $300 x 10,000,000 = $30,000,000,000. That figure can not be right or Sony would have closed the doors already. The real figure?

Sony has reportedly spent 3 BILLION on the PS3 so far. Can they ever make that back? Most annalists say no and I think you would agree on that as well. I think the PS3 is an awesome gaming console but it has the unfortunate privilege of being too advanced for the market to handle. I never though it was a wise gaming decision to try and make the PS3 a do everything machine. It did buy Sony the Blu Ray win but even Blu Ray is being hit with the economic boom stick.

PS3 is a disaster for Sony. A Three Billion dollar disaster. Flop may not be what you would call PS3 but I find that the semantics are of little consequence. This race is over and the Wii took the big boys to school in a resounding victory ass beating the likes of which no one thought possible! The economy now favors the Wii so the next few years should see their sales do nothing but go up and up and up!

[drtoker]

"When Microsoft got into the console game in 2001, much was made of the fact that it lost an estimated $125 per console on each Xbox. Four years later, that per-console-hit has tallied to $4 billion of red ink for the Redmond, Washington-based software colossus, whose current-fiscal-year forecast calls for $44.5 billion in revenue. "
Thats on the original xbox.
Still think the ps3 is a failure?
When compared to other systems, the ps3 isn't as bad as people think. Why must people say the ps3 is doing so horribly, when its not.

Yes they took a hit. They knew that going in, and sony can afford it, just like MS can. Its all part of the game. Hardware was never EVER the money maker in consoles, its all software.

By your rational the original xbox is a failure as well. I don't buy it, sorry. They have 1 billion more in losses. Whats your analysis say about that?

[Mels_Smileys45]

I think Mel is definitely overstating the issue, however, I DO NOT see any brightness for the PS3 in the future.

Here is what the CEO of Sony has to say on the subject if you don't believe me.


Sony CEO Sir Howard Stringer recently spoke to Welt Online about a whole gamut of issues surrounding Sony products, and one of those was the difficulty in making any money on the PS3. He was asked if Sony would ever make back the investment ploughed in to the Playstation 3. He said:

"Not for as long as I live (laughs). It will certainly take some time. The traditional business model for the Playstation envisaged us making a loss with the hardware in the early years until the production costs had decreased to a point that enabled us to break even. In the meantime, we earn money with the games. We are currently at the stage in which we need to get a grip on the production costs. That takes time. We are already making more money with the games than we are losing with the hardware."


Artcle (http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/08/29/sony-ps3-will-never-make-a-profit-but-dont-blame-the-wii/)


Yes, the CEO says Sony is still losing money on the hardware so that resolves that debate. I don't think I was "overstating" anything. The PS3 numbers speak for themselves and there is no way Sony can pull this one out of the nose dive tailspin it is now experiencing. The entire gaming market is in trouble but the Wii is currently beating its sales of last year! That is impressive for this OLD system. I am not a Wii fanboi and do not own one either but I can't help but admire the way Nintendo rolled the dice and won with this concept of "game play is the thing" that most saw as only a gimmick! The little console that could so to speak. Everyone shouting about the graphics! "Oh man the graphics are not any fun! They suck!" Nintendo proved other wise by offering a cheap yet money making console that the whole family could enjoy. Yes, I greatly admire this concept and its results.

Here is what The SOny CEO says about the Wii:

"The Wii is a well-made device that has found a new target group. For a while, we held the same target group with the SingStar karaoke game. But perhaps we neglected to pursue that avenue. Playstation games are rather designed for those who play a lot. Although it’s a different strategy, it pays off. We currently have a production bottleneck with the Playstation 3.

The major difference lies in the fact that Nintendo makes money with the hardware alone, which may be a superior business model. But the Wii is not succeeding at our expense – it is not hurting us. We decided years ago to build a game console that offers much greater functionality. The Playstation 3 has an enormous processor; it is gradually emerging as the central server in our users’ homes."

[mountain_rage]

So... Sony is not loosing money on the PS3 then because they are recouping the cost on software sales? Am I missing something here or did you prove all your naysayers right with that article.

[Mels_Smileys45]

No not really. Of course they are making money on games, duh! Is it enough to make back 3 billion already lost plus the money it is still losing? I doubt it. I am not trying to skewer the facts. Sony sales are slipping and the rest of the company is in trouble as well. Sony's games are few and far between too. If they are able to make 3 billion + on games they need to tell the rest of the gaming makers how they do it!!!


CNN has dubbed the PS3 "the new Titanic"


'Sony's (SNE) PS3 is dying on the shelves.

Alone among the three major videogame consoles, sales of the PS3 are down about 19% from November 2007, according to the latest stats from the NPD Group. Sony was only able to sell 378,000 PS3s this November, compared to 466,000 last year.

And the problem for Sony isn't the recession, it's the PS3. Microsoft (MSFT) put up respectable numbers with its Xbox 360, selling 836,000 units vs 777,000 in November 2007. And Nintendo's (NTDOY) Wii continues to dominate the market, more than doubling sales from 981,000 to 2.04 million.

So why is the PS3 flopping so badly?

1. It's the most expensive console on the market, $150 - $200 more than its rivals. Even if you believe the video game industry is "recession-proof" (it isn't), a tanking economy makes consumers more price-conscious.
2. The PS3's big bonus is its ability to double as a Blu-Ray player. Too bad no one seems to care about hi-def DVDs. The differences between Blu-Ray and DVD are hard to see on a TV less than 50".
3. The PS3 just doesn't have any must-have titles exclusive to the console. "LittleBigPlanet" has generated decent buzz but isn't a game-changer, and neither is Sony's new virtual world "Home."


There's really only one option left for Sony to remain in the game: deep price cuts, and not just for people with good credit. Tell yourself the PS3 has superior graphics if it makes you feel better, but a $400 console with a mediocre game library simply cannot compete against an Xbox 360 priced at $200 in this economy."


CNN (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/siliconalley/personal-tech/2008_12_sonys_ps3_a_sinking_ship_sales_plummet_sne .html)



I don't fully agree with this article. I think the economy has effected this years PS3 sales. Also, I love HOME and Littlebigplanet looks awesome. These two things, especially Home make me want a PS3.

[drtoker]

How about you respond to my xbox comment. They are doing no worse with the ps3 then ms did with the xbox. And the xbox was hardly a flop or failure.

[Mels_Smileys45]

How about you respond to my xbox comment. They are doing no worse with the ps3 then ms did with the xbox. And the xbox was hardly a flop or failure.

I am a bit surprised you even point to the Xbox to back up your claim that the PS3 is doing just fine, especially when faced with the facts of declining sales which Xbox did not face at such an early date.

The Xbox was a disappointment for MS as it did fail to meet expectations in most markets. Xbox however did not lose $300 on every console sold. It wasn't very long until MS got its manufacturing costs under control, to some extent, and was able to start making a bit of a profit. Xbox never sold well but it did hold its ground. It held the number 2 spot which was not that bad. Sony is at a VERY distant number 3 and is sinking fast. NOT gaining, SINKING! Why must I have to keep spelling this out. Do you own stock in Sony?

I will do my best to field any questions that are in my ability to answer. However, I think it is easy to see that the Sony PS3 is in real trouble. That is the point of the article and it is simply stated in an easy to understand manner.

PS3 sales should be going up. They are not. The economy will likely make this worse and over the next year or perhaps longer that will be the problem Sony faces with a very expensive console. Sony is still losing money on the PS3. Three BILLION and rising. That is not chump change. If Sony is relying on games to make back all three billion plus for the lifespan of the console, they are in trouble. The PS3 may sell well once the next gen of consoles come out, who knows.


The entire electronics industry is in trouble but the Wii and the 360 sales are above last years reports. PS3 sales go down and the other two go up? Why is this???? Is it because Sony is doing just fine?

I hope I have answered your questions but I have a feeling its still not good enough. Hey, you don't have to agree. Thats fine. But I can't keep spinning my wheels here. I have tried to clarify myself the best I could.

:drunken_s

[Excrement_Cranium]

Well, what a Don Webb way to end a post!

:o


Anyway, the loss on hardware, profit on software model has been the console go-to for years. Though, with the high cost of game production anymore, profit margins are tighter. Home etc are helping to widen those margins.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Can PS3 Catch Up to Xbox 360?

Remember how 2008 started? Sony and some pundits proclaimed that 2008 would be the "year of the PS3." With GTA IV, Metal Gear Solid 4, LittleBigPlanet, the launch of PlayStation Home, addition of Trophies and a new video marketplace, one could argue that the PS3 should have fared better. And while total PS3 sales in the U.S. were up 40 percent in 2008, the fact of the matter is that 2008 was anything but "the year of the PS3." Indeed, it was the year of the Wii, and to a much lesser extent, the year of the Xbox 360.

Sony has been losing market share and it desperately needs to convert the majority of those 50 million PS2 owners into PS3 adopters. It won't be easy, and clearly the biggest obstacle at the moment is the PS3's price, but analysts believe Sony definitely still has a chance to catch or even exceed Microsoft in the console race.

GameDaily BIZ picked the brains of five leading game industry analysts to get their respective takes on how Sony can "rescue" the PS3 before the hole grows any deeper.

Michael Pachter, Wedbush Morgan Securities

Sony has two ways to increase sales: either they price competitively (that means at the same price as their competition), or they convince consumers that the higher price is justified by "must have" features.


They don't seem inclined to price competitively, and the cost of production for the PS3 coupled with Sony's financial situation may preclude a price cut over the near term. I said I expected a price cut in April, but it's not clear (given the strong Yen) whether the company can afford to do so that early. It's entirely possible that they cut in June (E3), September (TGS), holiday, or not at all.

If I'm right that they cannot afford to price competitively, that leaves them the alternative of educating consumers about the value proposition of the PS3. That strategy has its pitfalls, insofar as the feature set of the PS3 includes many expensive components that each appeal to only a minority of consumers. For example, Wi-Fi is great to have if you care to log on to PSN, but in reality, only a fraction of PS3 owners really care. (I know that they claim 17 million PSN members--maybe it's 14 million--but the truth is that most had to log on to download a system update, and joined while waiting). If there are only 17 million Xbox Live members out of 28 million, it is likely that only 60% of consumers have the desire to be online, and some of these would be happy to use a wired Internet connection. Sony asks consumers to pay for Wi-Fi whether they desire it or not. Similarly, they ask consumers to pay for a hard drive, which has value only if the purchaser intends to download content. Flash memory would suffice for most game saves, as Nintendo has proven with the Wii.


Finally, the Blu-ray player feature is another "nice to have," but should only really appeal to HDTV households (maybe 30% of the market). I am certain that in 10 years, HDTV penetration will approach 100%, but at present, a large number of potential PS3 purchasers don't have HD, and don't perceive the need to pay for Blu-ray.

That makes the education option extremely difficult. I think that they should do both (cut price and aggressively market the PS3 feature set), but am not optimistic that we'll see real traction from the latter this year. Rather, the immediate boost will come when they decide to cut price. I expect it this year, as soon as their cost structure permits a cut. My Monday note said April, and that is nothing more than a guess. It could come later, but it seems to me that it must come some time in 2009.

With that said, I think that PS3 will sell well once competitively priced. The company has an insurmountable advantage in Japan, and an overall brand loyalty in Europe. Should they price at parity with Xbox 360 ($299), I think that PS3 sales would exceed 360 sales, and eventually, they could catch up. At present, it doesn't look like that is happening any time soon, so Sony should be prepared to remain in third place until well after they cut price.


Gamedaily (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/feature-can-ps3-catch-up-to-xbox-360/?biz=1)



A quick note. It seems funny that there is so much fuss over if Sony will ever catch up to SECOND PLACE. A year ago many fans said Sony would be in first place with ease by now and this year they are content to fall back on the second place argument. Well to be honest it far too late to even be talking about that. The race is over for this round for all argument sake. The PS3 well eventually sell well and probably sell in great numbers but that has nothing to do with the quick profits the other two companies have had.

Sony fans can take comfort in knowing the PS2 is the best selling console ever and still holds Sony together till this day. I wouldn't mind buying one myself. Its a great deal with lots of good cheap games. I don't see anything beating the PS2 ever. Its simply a fantastic machine!

[Signa]

One flaw in your argument that you keep repeating over and over is rank. It's a pretty moot point. Nintendo was in a distant 3rd last gen, and they still made a lot of money. Rank by itself doesn't account for much.

I don't disagree that the ps3 is in trouble. It's got a long uphill battle to get back on track, and the only thing that seems to be stopping it is it's exclusives. All I can say is that if Killzone 2 doesn't walk on water, then I don't know what other aces in Sony's pocket they can pull out.

[shawners]

With the 3 red lights killing your console, and buying a new xbox360; then getting banned from xbox live which the console is then banned; then if you buy a TV from Bestbuy, there are deals where you get a free xbox 360. ( Check techbargains.com) Dell.com is selling them for a lot less with the 15 percent coupon code. Even that the xbox360 is hacked in ALL the drives (Including LITEON). The games still sale well and have been outpaced. The only game thats good for the PS3 is Metal Gear and xbox360 had a big list of games this last fall.

Even i dont buy xbox 360 games, theres a reason. 60-70 bucks i may not play it more then a few hours a month. Plus the only games that well sell are the ones worthy of the money. Other then that, i downloaded 40+ games that have been absolute crap. Buggy as shit, no downloadable content, and some make you charge for it. And thats just insane.

[YWD67]

I happy with my Sega 32X emulater and the hours of yelling and screaming at that one odd missle in Afterburner that I have a shit fit dodging.
Fuck life like game systems.

[puckin45]

Well, I'll tell y'all what - if PS3 is doomed, bring on the $19.99 game sales...of COURSE they're making a profit on software, it costs $60-70 for a game brand new!! The department stores all had it right over Boxing Week - games for like $10-$30...OK, so 2007 titles, but so what?!

I have to say though, they have a good thing going with that Playstation Store...just wish they'd let us download Little Big Planet...or at least put out a Demo...

I know one thing is for certain, no matter how good or bad Sony is doing with the PS3 hardware, ACTIVISION is making a mint with Guitar Hero!!!

Always a silver lining...always...

[northwest stew]

[:drunken_squote=
I don't fully agree with this article. I think the economy has effected this years PS3 sales. Also, I love HOME and Littlebigplanet looks awesome. These two things, especially Home make me want a PS3.[/quote] :drunken_s So have you tried HOME?I have a ps3 and in HOME quite a bit , and its getting pretty neat as they come out with new things .Mels you gotta get one of these PS3s their alot of fun and watching blueray movies is near perfect.

[Mels_Smileys45]

I would LOVE to be in Home but I can't see, and don't have the funds, buying a PS3 right now. It will be a few years before I actually consider buying one. I wouldn't mind buying a PS2 right now though. Its still a fine machine with so many great, cheap games. I didn't buy an XBox until the 360 was about to come out! I guess I stay one Gen behind now days. I eventually sold me XBox to a kid that would enjoy it as I don't find time to sit and play games anymore.

I like old school games so graphics, while I do find very interesting and cool, are not important to me these days. I have to admit that seeing some of the new Gen games does make me gasp at times but now enough to pry the money out of my tight wallet! Pac Man CE and Home are the only two games that have almost made me buy a new gaming console.

[shawners]

Nothing is better then playing games on a big screen in 1080P.. Call of Duty world at war is amazing. People compare it to COD2, COD3 because it takes place in world war II... But its amazing going through a field and japs jumping out you with bonets.. And you switch over to your blow torch gun and burn them out, and they run screaming.. And going into caves or ditches where there at and lighting the place up.

[gothic_hobbit]

Xbox 360 is a complete waste of time. There was and is no excuse EVER for the red ring of death. Plus most of the 360 "exclusives" eventually end on the PC anyway.

[shango46]

Xbox 360 is a complete waste of time. There was and is no excuse EVER for the red ring of death. Plus most of the 360 "exclusives" eventually end on the PC anyway.

I could not agree more. There has been nothing but problems with it since day 1 and to this day there are still LARGE amounts of 360's being returned because of the RROD. And the "exclusives" aren't so exclusive as they almost all are available on PC. The only ones I have not seen yet for PC are Halo3 and Fable 2. But, they will be soon as M$ likes money.

As far as the PS3 being doomed: So what? The PS3 has the most power in all fields. It has the best graphics, the Blu-Ray drive, the ability to run linux right out of the box with no modifications required, Home, etc... The only bad thing is its price, and that alone has determined it's current situation. Spend at least $400 for the console itself and then $60+ a game (How much is the whole Rock Band 2 Package?). The Xbox 360 is 1/2 the price for the console and the Wii is almost the same. Plus, the Wii has an ISO Loader and now there is a chip called FlatMii where you just connect the thing with 1 wire inside and then you can play Wii iso's via usb from your PC.

I personally see the PS3 as a Dreamcast 2. All sorts of power ahead of its time, just poorly marketed and overpriced. Not the first time Sony has felt the wrath of poor marketing though. Look at the first PSP (the fat one).

[Signa]

OMFG! I just realised what was bothering me about this whole thread.



MELS IS ACTING LIKE DON WEBB!

The only thing I'm not seeing mels emulate in DW's behavior is fanboying one of the systems.

Here, I'll adjust one of his posts. Don't read it fully right away, but just glance at it.


Here is what the CEO of Sony has to say on the subject if you don't believe me.


Sony CEO Sir Howard Stringer recently spoke to Welt Online about a whole gamut of issues surrounding Sony products, and one of those was the difficulty in making any money on the PS3. He was asked if Sony would ever make back the investment ploughed in to the Playstation 3. He said:

"Not for as long as I live (laughs). It will certainly take some time. The traditional business model for the Playstation envisaged us making a loss with the hardware in the early years until the production costs had decreased to a point that enabled us to break even. In the meantime, we earn money with the games. We are currently at the stage in which we need to get a grip on the production costs. That takes time. We are already making more money with the games than we are losing with the hardware."


Artcle (http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/08/29/sony-ps3-will-never-make-a-profit-but-dont-blame-the-wii/)


Yes, the CEO says Sony is still losing money on the hardware so that resolves that debate. I don't think I was "overstating" anything. The PS3 numbers speak for themselves and there is no way Sony can pull this one out of the nose dive tailspin it is now experiencing. The entire gaming market is in trouble but the Wii is currently beating its sales of last year! That is impressive for this OLD system.

I am not a Wii fanboi and do not own one either but I can't help but admire the way Nintendo rolled the dice and won with this concept of "game play is the thing" that most saw as only a gimmick!

The little console that could so to speak. Everyone shouting about the graphics! "Oh man the graphics are not any fun! They suck!" Nintendo proved other wise by offering a cheap yet money making console that the whole family could enjoy. Yes, I greatly admire this concept and its results.

Here is what The SOny CEO says about the Wii:

"The Wii is a well-made device that has found a new target group. For a while, we held the same target group with the SingStar karaoke game. But perhaps we neglected to pursue that avenue. Playstation games are rather designed for those who play a lot. Although it’s a different strategy, it pays off. We currently have a production bottleneck with the Playstation 3.

The major difference lies in the fact that Nintendo makes money with the hardware alone, which may be a superior business model. But the Wii is not succeeding at our expense – it is not hurting us. We decided years ago to build a game console that offers much greater functionality. The Playstation 3 has an enormous processor; it is gradually emerging as the central server in our users’ homes."

[lee1978]

Wii and DS for the win!

[mfgbypooter]

OMFG! I just realised what was bothering me about this whole thread.

MELS IS ACTING LIKE DON WEBB!



Close, but your wrong about the acting like part.


:drunken_s

*

[Mels_Smileys45]

They just took the PS3 off the shelves as Sony realized no one wanted them anymore. After no sales for the month of January Sony gave up and admits the fanbois are the only ones who bought the pieces of shit to begin with. The 360's were bought by the geeks and the Wii's were bought by little old ladies with hip implants.


But seriously, do the research. there are dozens of articles about the PS3 being in trouble. I didn't make it up but I am sorry if I hurt some peoples feelings.


PS3 sales down in '08 holiday season, cause for concern?

With 2008 at an end, Sony has come out with it's finalized sales numbers for the year in the US. The PS3 sold over 3 and a half million consoles in 2008, up 40% from 2007. However, perhaps the more startling issue is that sales of the PS3 actually dwindled from the 2007 holiday season to the 2008's. Sony pegs the PS3 at 726K units sold for the month, and while they are quick to point this out as a 90% increase from sales in November 2008, this is also short about 100K units from December 2007. Overall, during the holiday months of November and December, the PS3 sold 1,226,000 PS3s in 2007, while only selling a bit over 1,100,000 for those months in 2008.

PS3center (http://www.ps3center.net/news/2152/ps3-sales-down-in-08-holiday-season-cause-for-concern/)


PS3 sales drop in latest Japan figures

Sales for Sony Corp.'s Playstation 3 dropped in the latest Japan retail figures.

Media Create Co. on Fri. reported that the PS3 sold 28,144 units between Jan. 5 and Jan. 11.

PunchJump (http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=7318)



Nintendo Wii to outsell Sony PS2: PS3 sales as poor as GameCube


We all know how quick things can turn around in the gaming world, and that is evident with Nintendo and Sony. Nintendo used to have the worst selling console on the market with the GameCube and Sony had the best, the PS2. Times have now reversed, Nintendo now have the best selling console on the market with the Wii, while Sony has the worst selling, the PS3.

If the Nintendo Wii keeps selling the kind of numbers that is has, then we could see it outselling the best ever games console, the Sonly PlayStation 2. The PS2 has sold more than 50 million units in the U.S. and 140 million worldwide, going on the current figures Nintendo expects to sell 55 million Wii consoles in the U.S. by 2014 and 154 million worldwide.

It is great news to see Nintendo turn around their fortunes, but it is not just the Wii that is doing well for them, Nintendo also have the best selling handheld console, the DS. This is a very different story for Sony; the once king of the games consoles has not done a good job with this generation. There is no denying that the Sony PlayStation 3 is a great console, but it is the price that lets it down. There is one thing that Sony has on their side with the PS3; it will have a greater shelf life than the Wii.


productreview (http://www.product-reviews.net/2009/01/20/nintendo-wii-to-outsell-sony-ps2-ps3-sales-as-poor-as-gamecube/)

[carpefile]

PS3 may be doomed, but retro games are making a comeback.

The retro-iest game of all (http://mateusz.viste.free.fr/dos/en/download.php?plik=empong)

[kippies]

Just my 2 cents on this debate

Both the WII and the 360 have a well defined target demographic- talk to teenagers and its all about 360's and Gears of War or some other blood fest, the kiddies and casual gamers plump for the WII

The PS3 is a really capable product but in some senses its a victim of the same attitude from sony as the rootkit debacle- IF you invest in a HD TV, a PSP /slim , Blu-Ray disks etc its a great all rounder- in a sense Id love a decent PS3 set up but the £ involved are too much

I can link my 360 to the PC, stream media,play online, download games straight to hard drive for a few £ (just got the helflings thingy and the whole family play)- it just feels like you get far more bangs per buck with 360

In my job I get to see a lot of the insides of peoples houses- what really surprised me was in a lot of the well healed homes where I expected to see a sweet sony branded set up instead they plumped for a 360/pc link combo to power a media room- it works and its cheap- even the well off appreciate a bargain

If sony re visit price and DRM (microsoft folded on the xvid thing) they might pull it off- if they continue to ignore the signals from the market place they're screwed-

Im no Microsoft fanbois, in fact it broke my heart to go 360, I always swore off the XBOX as it was from the great Satan bill- but the decision to buy a 360 I haven't regretted (well obviously apart from losing my moral high ground)- I bought when it was expensive and invested in the HD version- the combo of pc connectivity, availability of titles I want to play and titles the kids want to play make it a winner in my book

and yes were looking to buy something else for the kids to play on this year and guess what its likely to be WII- unless Sony cut the price or add in a free PSP or something that actually makes it attractive for me to buy......I'm sorry but investing all that money to see the movies I already own in "Blu Ray" which I cant REALLY see a difference....

just doesn't stack up

[drtoker]

Just my 2 cents on this debate

Both the WII and the 360 have a well defined target demographic- talk to teenagers and its all about 360's and Gears of War or some other blood fest, the kiddies and casual gamers plump for the WII

The PS3 is a really capable product but in some senses its a victim of the same attitude from sony as the rootkit debacle- IF you invest in a HD TV, a PSP /slim , Blu-Ray disks etc its a great all rounder- in a sense Id love a decent PS3 set up but the £ involved are too much

I can link my 360 to the PC, stream media,play online, download games straight to hard drive for a few £ (just got the helflings thingy and the whole family play)- it just feels like you get far more bangs per buck with 360

In my job I get to see a lot of the insides of peoples houses- what really surprised me was in a lot of the well healed homes where I expected to see a sweet sony branded set up instead they plumped for a 360/pc link combo to power a media room- it works and its cheap- even the well off appreciate a bargain

If sony re visit price and DRM (microsoft folded on the xvid thing) they might pull it off- if they continue to ignore the signals from the market place they're screwed-

Im no Microsoft fanbois, in fact it broke my heart to go 360, I always swore off the XBOX as it was from the great Satan bill- but the decision to buy a 360 I haven't regretted (well obviously apart from losing my moral high ground)- I bought when it was expensive and invested in the HD version- the combo of pc connectivity, availability of titles I want to play and titles the kids want to play make it a winner in my book

and yes were looking to buy something else for the kids to play on this year and guess what its likely to be WII- unless Sony cut the price or add in a free PSP or something that actually makes it attractive for me to buy......I'm sorry but investing all that money to see the movies I already own in "Blu Ray" which I cant REALLY see a difference....

just doesn't stack up

If people like and want high def, they go ps3. If not, they go 360 for media center. As far as DRM, I've never run into any issues, neither has anyone I know. I stream smaller xvids from my PC, and play HD files straight from my ps3 with no issues, 720p and 1080p. The ps3 is a beast, and I stand behind my belief that its not doomed. Big dev companies would not be developing for it if it were failing, period. Too much money to waste.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Its doomed in the short term. In the long term it will be Okay. When the price is a lot lower and the economy turns around it will surely start selling again but right now the sales have slowed to a trickle. The games are selling at a good rate though. This does not bring new customers to Sony however. The PS3 boxes are collecting dust and are even selling worse than they did the first year...FAR WORSE! In the past this has happened only to failing video game consoles. The fanboi base can cry and scream all they want but hope beyond hope does not change the facts of this grim situation. Sorry


The problem will be that by the time PS3 is in a place to start getting new customers the other two brands or even a wild card company will have a new system in the wings.

There is no doubt about it. Sony is in a VERY bad position. If not for the PS2 the companies video game department would be in tremendous trouble along with the rest of Sony Corp.


Many people, like myself, tried to tell Sony beforehand that they were making a huge mistake by coming out with such a high priced console. It was reported to coast $700 back then but many of the Sony Fanbois said wait and see! Sony will be number 1! Well we waited and we saw and yet they are still saying Sony is doing amazingly well in the face of the facts that say other wise. They will not admit shit even when the next gen is well under way. Its very funny to see how nutty people are over a name brand.

[drtoker]

2008 sales (ps3): Total 10,341,638
2007 sales (ps3): Total 7,666,609
2008 sales (xbox360): Total 11,158,369
2007 sales (xbox360): Total 7,929,882

2009 sales (ps3 Jan3-Jan17): Total 616,050
2009 sales (360 Jan3-Jan17): Total 802,302

I once again say, numbers speak for themselves. Ps3 is doing fine.

[Crashtard]

2008 sales (ps3): Total 10,341,638
2007 sales (ps3): Total 7,666,609
2008 sales (xbox360): Total 11,158,369
2007 sales (xbox360): Total 7,929,882

2009 sales (ps3 Jan3-Jan17): Total 616,050
2009 sales (360 Jan3-Jan17): Total 802,302

I once again say, numbers speak for themselves. Ps3 is doing fine.

This pretty much sums it up. I don't own a ps3, but I own both a 360 and a Wii. I bought my 360 about 8 months after it came out, and I've certainly loved every minute of it. Yeah, mine RROD'd about a year ago. I sent it in and got one back a week later and have had no problems since. Yeah it's a pretty serious hardware failure, but they openly admitted it and started fixing or replacing them free of charge. On one hand it was annoying as hell not having it around, but on the other hand it's not like my life revolves around gaming. I'd REALLY like to get a ps3, but I just can't afford it. 400 bucks is more than I really want to spend on another system when I already have two that get plenty of use, and that's the real problem I see for the ps3. It's pretty sweet, but you have to commit to a system that plays blu-ray. If I'm going to do that I'm going to have to get a new tv since I don't have a HDTV. By the time I'm done I'm 900+ bucks in the hole to play a system that has a handful of games I want to play. I already have two systems I can't afford to buy all the games I want for, so what's the reason to buy a third? That's the real trouble I see for the ps3.

[Atheist Icon]

PS3 is doomed. If all I use it for is to stream media from my PC to my 46" Samsung ToC, there are plenty of other people that do the same thing. I do not play games, I use it to play BD. Sony made absolutely no money off of me.

[northwest stew]

PS3 is doomed. If all I use it for is to stream media from my PC to my 46" Samsung ToC, there are plenty of other people that do the same thing. I do not play games, I use it to play BD. Sony made absolutely no money off of me.Sure they made money of you, if you rented or bought bluray movies ,they are one of the major company's that designed and developed bluray .

[Atheist Icon]

Sure they made money of you, if you rented or bought bluray movies ,they are one of the major company's that designed and developed bluray .

In a sense of attachment rates. I have the basic system, no games, 1 remote. I have bought a BD here and there, but it has to be a very good movie for me to buy it. Hell, I picked up A Clockwork Orange for $10 at Sam's Club a week ago. One of the few BD I have.

Only reason I have a PS3 vs a BD player is that the PS3 has a hell of a lot more features for the price. Just waiting for Netflix to stream to PS3, then I'll be completely happy.

[northwest stew]

Netflix would be sweet ,now that they have decided to go all blu-ray .Hope they dont charge to much.

[drtoker]

Blu-ray upgrade is $1 extra per month.
Good deal :)

[bshegg]

Anyone know how to delete my account?

[drtoker]

I for one hope nintendo continues down its current path of inovative technology and focusing on gameplay vs graphics.

I love playing my Wii, just as much as my ps3, because its different.

[bshegg]

Anyone know how to delete my account?

[drtoker]

Haven't played Dark Void, but theres quite a few games I like playing for Wii. Hell, I still love playin wii sports when I have friends over. But by myself, I'm still really into mario and zelda.

I do agree there are a LOAD of crappy games for the wii though, which sucks.

[cheapprick]

Wii needs a game called "Farmyard Fertility Expert" in which the player attempts to whack off various farm animals.

I see a big seller.

[bshegg]

Anyone know how to delete my account?