Let's discuss...

[Absolution]

I have not posted for a long time,and now when I returned to the forum,I see a raising War .So,I decided to post something.Before you read this,please follow the following steps-
1.gather all your patience(believe me,u will need that),for this is a long thread.
2.please read the whole thread completely and carefully.don't comment before u read the whole thread.
3.be carefull about "knowledge hazard",I am a newbie,and all I am saying are from my knowledge and my thoughts.
I am going to say a few Serious things in a light and odd way.If this bothers u,forgive me.And I AM NOT ANSWERING ANYONE'S QUESTION.(u know,the forum is not just for troubleshooting and inquiries) Here ,Kazaa means the FT network,and it doesn't include KLite(for KLite isn't even an indivisual program,it's just a hack and fully depends on kazaa).so,here we go...

In the past few days,a war is being seen in the forum.This can be pictured like this- G1 vs. G2 vs. KLite.Yes,KLite.They are arguing about a client which is just a hack,and COMPLETELY depends on an ad and spyware based program.If u dare,talk about the plain old Kazaa.

Now,the members are arguing of G1 and G2.One says G1 is worse than G2,and the other says that where is u'r proof?and Gnutella2 is illegal.Do u remember that Gnutella is an open network?No indivisual owns it. So, everybody has the right to modify it.Then they are arguing with the Gnutella2 name.I don't think if the new Gnutella network Was named CyberSource or so,it wouldn't increase or decrease the ability of the network,and thereby doesn't matter.You ask which one is better?G1 or G2?I would say they both are still losers compared to Kazaa.That is because Kazaa is more centralised than de-centralised.That means the 'servers' which are called SuperNodes(SN) are much more powerful than the Ultrapeers(UP) or Hubs G1 or G2 uses.Then comes the connection methods.The SNs are very powerful and stable servers which are directly conncted to each other,while the UP and hubs connects through the network.Like u r connected to David and Jeremy,who r connected to John,Roger.Marvin and Tina,and so along.When u connect to the FT network,the SuperNodes collect your hash links,and when some one requests a file from u,the SuperNodes connects him Directly to you.This direct and two-tier connection makes the FT network faster,while Gnetwork connects you through the UltraPeers and hubs.So,u'r performance increases or decreases with the performance of the UPs and hubs,thereby controlling your performance.

U see,the Gnetwork has been here too long without any great modification and development of the network.The people are trying to modify the clients rather than the network,which is getting old and thereby lagging behind.Now, G2 is an Extention of the old Gnutella network,not a modification.G2 adds a few new methods,and might fix some glitchs,but still uses the old Gnutella core. Gnutella has a very weak core,which needs some new developments.Kazaa is always modifying the network,for this is their way of income.But no Gnutella developer,say Bearshare, Limewire etc.seems to have any interest to advance the network.You may advance your software to a limit,but what happens next?The network must b upgraded to stay in the competetion.

What seems to b necessery (to me) is all the client developers ,say Shareaza,LimeWire,BearShare,Xolox etc working together and modifying and extending the network.And fighting between yourselves won't be of any good rather than bad to the network.I think G1,G2 and GUESS should be combined,and a few new modification of the network structure is very necessary this moment.Creating another indivisual network will not be of very use,so all Gnutella networks and indivisual technologies should be combined,creating a bigger and better Gnutella network. This is the only way ,it seems to me, Gnutella May survive. The arguing may keep the forum alive,and it is necessary,but it is not doing the network any good.So,spread the words.

Time for a conclusion.For those who are thinking I am a Kazaa user,I don't use Kazaa,nor KLite.I don't kno why,but I have included a poll.:fire And if you like it or hate it,please let me know by replying,not by PMing.U r welcome to express u'r feelings. The way u can help is by sharing u'r thought.:shy Byeee..

[MoonMan]

Dude I stopped reading your post half way through because it made no sense.. and the lack of paragraphing or indenting didn't help (just a clump of words and sentences).
Wtf are you talking about?? I see a poll about something totally unrelated to your post (which looks like a bunch of random thoughts).

Do you think you could edit that a bit (with the edit post button) so it is legible?

[«°¤§téålth§t®îk餰»]

Originally posted by MoonMan
Dude I stopped reading your post half way through because it made no sense.. and the lack of paragraphing or indenting didn't help (just a clump of words and sentences).
Wtf are you talking about?? I see a poll about something totally unrelated to your post (which looks like a bunch of random thoughts).

Do you think you could edit that a bit (with the edit post button) so it is legible?

yea!




PLUS, to give you a shortened version, what he is trying to say is that Kazaa's SuperNode based networking versus the G1/G2 Networks are flawed.

While Kazaa always updates thier Networks and makes them better.

Programs like Shareaza, LimeWire, BearShare, Xolox etc. Are not, they instead upgrade the software instead of making the network faster, more reliable etc.

Please corect me if I'm wrong.......and do make your post more readible.

[Rickio]

my response is.

what was the question please?

peace

[«°¤§téålth§t®îk餰»]

I think he was just expressing his thoughts, don't think he wanted an answer the way he asked and phrased everything.

This threads gonna die.

[DIMA2001]

I dont care about what is better centralized or decentralized, but i can tell you 1 thing: G2 is much faster than FT.
FT gives me results only of few SNs then i have to use extend to extend my search on other SNs, G2 hubs are AFAIK organzied by schemes (dunno, if it is true, but i read that somewhere), that means, if you are searching for audio files, first "audio hubs" are searched, then the others and so on.

The secound feature of G2 is its speed: i search 120 nodes in 30 seconds and if it is right (ive heard it somewhere) G2 is able to search 500 000 users / leaves in only 60 secods - record time.

The next thing: the opiness (or similar) of the G2: the release date of G2 specs is not specialized on a date, but it will be released as soon as raza final is out
Why? Because the protocol is currently in the development, too, if it has the bug and the specs are out, there is no way back.

The name G2: Gnutella 2 sounds interensting to all of the users. That means more users on the same protocol (and not on the same client, although there is only 1 client right now)

GloSearch - KaZaA was never able to find my friend on the other side of the FTNet - due its architecture - till now, i could find every source on the G2net

Next point: the war - many g1-developers want only money - same as in FT, as when G2-Raza began to "steal" their users, they were not able to make a comromise. Thats why the war began - the money.

Im for G2 and will stay for G2 and G2 is my light, so i stand for the light :}

Till now, G2 was able to achieve KaZaA's performance in fast searching, has a better ability for glosearching, Raza has TTH and part sharing (something what lacks in KaZaA/whole FT)

G2 is :wings Raza is :wings

show me an argument where KaZaA is better than G2.
Content - depends on the user base

And RAZAs user base is growing every day.

[«°¤§téålth§t®îk餰»]

Originally posted by DIMA2001
show me an argument where KaZaA is better than G2.
Content - depends on the user base

And RAZAs user base is growing every day.


even though i'm not too bright...but every time I log onto Kazaa it says 3,xxx,xxx users online.

Umm..does Shareaza have that many?

[Jared592]

Originally posted by DIMA2001
I dont care about what is better centralized or decentralized, but i can tell you 1 thing: G2 is much faster than FT.
FT gives me results only of few SNs then i have to use extend to extend my search on other SNs, G2 hubs are AFAIK organzied by schemes (dunno, if it is true, but i read that somewhere), that means, if you are searching for audio files, first "audio hubs" are searched, then the others and so on.

The secound feature of G2 is its speed: i search 120 nodes in 30 seconds and if it is right (ive heard it somewhere) G2 is able to search 500 000 users / leaves in only 60 secods - record time.

GloSearch - KaZaA was never able to find my friend on the other side of the FTNet - due its architecture - till now, i could find every source on the G2net

show me an argument where KaZaA is better than G2.
Content - depends on the user base

And RAZAs user base is growing every day.

Uh...try KaZaa's 3 million users at any given time to the 500,000 you mention, and the fact that you can search those users quickly (quicker than 60secs, which btw isn't record time). The reason you weren't able to find your friend is probably because he was on another supernode. There's an easy way to download stuff from your friend over FT, and you don't even have to have KaZaa running to do it. Get your friend's IP and the filename you want from him. Go into IE an type http://YOURFRIEND'SIP:1214/FILENAME. Hit enter and you'll get a pop-up download dialog. Your friend just has to have KaZaa open and an open upload slot.

[anarcus]

maybe i'm being like f:crosscking Switzerlen or or somthing in this supposed war (no ofence intended to the Swiss)

but i use both Kazaa lite & Shareaza
get the best of both worlds

if you can't get it on one your sure enough going to find it on the other, but i can almost garentee it will be on Kazaa more users more files, plus it has what i call the 13y/o sister advantage, almost everyone knows about it and can use it. which means you have a chance of getting anything you want. (and it's god damn easy to use when you come home wasted and want to find that song that was playing all night at the club)

G2 is great as well but i have real problems connecting to the network somtimes no idea why ?...

[backmann]

Originally posted by Absolution
What seems to b necessery (to me) is all the client developers ,say Shareaza,LimeWire,BearShare,Xolox etc working together and modifying and extending the network.And fighting between yourselves won't be of any good rather than bad to the network.I think G1,G2 and GUESS should be combined,and a few new modification of the network structure is very necessary this moment.Creating another indivisual network will not be of very use,so all Gnutella networks and indivisual technologies should be combined,creating a bigger and better Gnutella network. This is the only way ,it seems to me, Gnutella May survive. The arguing may keep the forum alive,and it is necessary,but it is not doing the network any good.So,spread the words.

I completely agree.

Ivan
"In the dark we make a brighter light"

[Munchables]

I read his poast just fine but that is me and we all know the horror of my posts. I think they should work togather and they problably will when g2 is fully relesed. However kazaalite especaly with klite++ is realy the best way to share. I have used shareaza and every update I download and chek it out I connect to at least 50 ppl (I am on a t3 so chill) make shure that they all have good internet connections and make a serch. The serches so far have been no ware neer what kaza lite has and with klite++ there is simply no contest. True not many people use G2 and once it goes public it might be realy good but I dought it will be better than Kazaa. I still think that eDonkey can and will be better than any gnutella.

I still use DC++ it is a nice prog and you should too.

[Absolution]

First,thank u «°¤§téålth§t®îk餰»,that is almost what I wanted to say.I just can't express my thoughts in a short manner.

Now,Dima2001,AFAIK,there is no indivisual "Audio hubs' in the G2 network.All the hubs have all sorts of users and files.U know,this is not DC or ED2K to have special audio servers(hubs).Then,u ask about an argument why Kazaa is better than G2.The first reason- Kazaa STILL has more than thrice the users in their network than the WHOLE Gnutella netwok has,and G2 has less users,for all the Gnutella users doesn't use Shareaza v.1.7,u know.The second cause,have u ever disconnected from FT after u connect?I think not.Then, in Kazaa,u connect to only one SN,where u have to connect to multiple UPs and hubs to use the whole Gnutella network.

U said about the fastness of search,but I think we spend more time downloading than searching.So,do u get the same speed from an indivisual user of G2 than a Kazaa user?I don't think so.It requires u to connect to 12 to 15 users of G2 to get the same speed u get from 8 sources of kazaa.Think of what will happen if kazaa lets u do the same thing.If u are able to connect to 12 kazaa users without sacrificing the bandwith,kazaa would suddenly outperform G2 then.That is,if that ever happens.i wish to post a new thread describing the necessity to upgrade Gnutella network.
I am sorry if I unknowingly hurt anyone's feelings.But what I am saying is the bitter truth. :(

[Ashitaka]

Originally posted by Munchables
I still use DC++ it is a nice prog and you should too.

You can't go around comparing one kind of network (DC, which is actually rather good) to a totally different structure (Gnutella2). My experience tells me that Gnutella2 is good for finding MP3s and documents off the top of your head, and DC is good for specific interests (anime OR foreign languages OR movies, etc., but not all of the above unless if you're running DC++ with stealth). People with different goals in mind will like or dislike a certain network structure.

[Munchables]

Originally posted by Ashitaka


You can't go around comparing one kind of network (DC, which is actually rather good) to a totally different structure (Gnutella2). My experience tells me that Gnutella2 is good for finding MP3s and documents off the top of your head, and DC is good for specific interests (anime OR foreign languages OR movies, etc., but not all of the above unless if you're running DC++ with stealth). People with different goals in mind will like or dislike a certain network structure.

Right I totaly agree that is why i use kl++ and if i can't get it on there I use dc but I would rather use dc than any gnutella client. Beucse like some one sayed kazaa hase 3 times as many peeps and I have a pholophsy:
it dosen't matter what you where, only what you are.
No wate umm no that is not it damn gotta make somthing up real quick umm:
it dosen't matter how you get it as long as you got it the best way. well somthing like that. if you can get it on dc better than gnutella (which you can) then use dc. Gnutella is useless and will always be second rate. (even though shareaza is number 1 on zp voting but you can get more files and faster with outer apps)

[Sephiroth]

Kazaa has centralized parts which is why its protocol is very secure in that there is little information about it and why they got sued, why they have complete control over it.

As for you saying that G1, G2, and GUESS should be combined.. To me it sounds like you dont know what they are.. GUESS is a extension to the current protocol and based on the talk on the GDF most developers are going to go with GUESS("raza" also) which replaced "G2" and so parts that were in "G2" might be included or adapted its unlikely that all of gnutella will just jump on over to another new protocol because the reason i believe was that its unneccessary and would take up too much time. The gnutella protocol is very adaptable. A whole new protocol doesnt need to be written when the old one can be adapted, and adjusted which in most cases backwards compatiblity is achieved.

My complaints about Gnutella2 was the whole reasoning of splitting the gnutella community and trying to elevate Shareaza above all the other programs under the mask of improving the network and by using the gnutella name to push shareaza protocol without any support from other developers.. To me it seems that shareaza is looking out for its own best interest and not what is best for the network.

That and Im tired of hearing the same excuses and explainations from a month ago being repeated and the immature insults.

Munchables the E-donkey/DC "HUB" system is still Server/Cilent.. Gnutella isnt structured like that. Edonkey and DC are dependant on those centralized "hubs" they are just distributed across many different machines. They are still very vurnable. Gnutella each person is a server and a cilent so every person makes up the network even now no one can take out gnutella as for Edonkey or DC i dont think that shutting down a few thousand servers would be that big a deal to the multi billion dollar companies. If the network and searches and etc can scale better then Gnutella will be a very strong network.

DC protocol is weak, and Edonkey runs off magnet links. Usenet is alot better than Edonkey and thats were almost all the files on shareactor comes from Usenet.

Havintg 50 connections is insane set it to 16 max anything above and your really just wasting bandwidth. If you want the best results then run as a ultrapeer and leave it running.

[Munchables]

Originally posted by Sephiroth

Munchables the E-donkey/DC "HUB" system is still Server/Cilent.. Gnutella isnt structured like that. Edonkey and DC are dependant on those centralized "hubs" they are just distributed across many different machines. They are still very vurnable. Gnutella each person is a server and a cilent so every person makes up the network even now no one can take out gnutella as for Edonkey or DC i dont think that shutting down a few thousand servers would be that big a deal to the multi billion dollar companies. If the network and searches and etc can scale better then Gnutella will be a very strong network.

DC protocol is weak, and Edonkey runs off magnet links. Usenet is alot better than Edonkey and thats were almost all the files on shareactor comes from Usenet.

Havintg 50 connections is insane set it to 16 max anything above and your really just wasting bandwidth. If you want the best results then run as a ultrapeer and leave it running.


I will try that with shareaza right now. However I think the more people you connect to the more people you serch and if you have a t3 fuck it.

But you don't get my idea at all but that is fine beucse I did not tell it to you :) (unless you read it but still) no what I am thinking of is have hubs and fuck that maglink shit. All you would need is somthing like gwebchach so the hubs can find eachouther and a client can find up and running hub and connect to the best one. But after that the hubs communicate with eachouter for serching and shit. People that run hotline, dc, edonkey, and what ever outer server based p2p (yeah i know hotline is not p2p) will problay set up hubs(espacly if DC or eDonkey pick up the idea) and then there is no way the Riaa could shut down hundreds of servers. The network that I am thinking of will use a different protocal than DC it might use some of the protocall form eDonkey but doughtfull. I guess it depends on who picks up the idea but problay no one will :( . I can't program worth shit I am just realy good with RegEdit.

[Sephiroth]

What your describing sounds something like GUESS and UltraPeers allready..

As for host connects after 16 you get only a small increase in search results for much higher bandwidth cost. So its not really worth it. You could do much better off running as a ultrapeer and a longer uptime which increases your horizon. Plus with network improvements you dont really need to connect to a insane amount of hosts.

[Ashitaka]

Originally posted by Munchables
I connect to at least 50 ppl (I am on a t3 so chill) make shure that they all have good internet connections and make a serch.

Sepiroth caught this before I did...

You only need to be connected to one Gnutella2 hub to get the entire Gnutella2 network. Two is good for backup, three is a bit excessive, four is just overkill and anything above that will get people annoyed at you.

As for ye olde Gnutella, if you have a T3, you might want to be connected to quite a few Gnutella ultrapeers, seeing how Gnutella searches don't travel as well.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Ashitaka


Sepiroth caught this before I did...

You only need to be connected to one Gnutella2 hub to get the entire Gnutella2 network. Two is good for backup, three is a bit excessive, four is just overkill and anything above that will get people annoyed at you.

As for ye olde Gnutella, if you have a T3, you might want to be connected to quite a few Gnutella ultrapeers, seeing how Gnutella searches don't travel as well.

Actually he was talking about Gnutella notice the absence of the number..

As for gnutella only 6-8 hosts are needed for decent search results.

[Juggalo15]

yaknow someone said Gnutella2 is faster than Kazaa.....I find that very very funny,1.Kazaa is all around Faster unless your computer just sucks,im connected to kazaa 1-3 secs with fast searches and downloads,2.When and if G2 gets 3-4 million users I wanna see how well it does compared to Kazaa:wings

I agree that Shareaza is really only lookin out for themselves and not the network.Limewire is making the Gnutella Network better and better.If anything I think GUESS,G2,and G1 should somehow be combined together to help the network...

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Juggalo15
If anything I think GUESS,G2,and G1 should somehow be combined together to help the network...

Thats what i think will ultimately be done. When shareaza releases the specs (which they should because they promised too) then then other developers will take the parts they like add it to the current network along with GUESS.

Since Mike has allready said that he will support GUESS, Gnutella2 is unlikely to replace the current network and will either just be a propierty feature of shareaza and maybe a few other programs or just fade away.

Which ill get flamed for saying it but thats just my forecast based on the numerous GDF posts and past experiances in how ultimately i think that it will play out and there is probably a good probability that it will happen that way but since a few things have to be assumed it could all change so there are a few senarios of what could happen.

[Absolution]

U don't get the idea why the Gnutella network should be upgraded,do u?Well,G2 or GUESS or what ever shit works almost as fast as FT network does,as u say it.Ok. But think of this,the clients which are providing these options are very much developed (limewire,shareaza), and has very few limitations.While kazaa doesn't hav that much options and has much limitations.Now,if kazaa removes the limitations,and adds much more options, (i.e. to attract more users) the FT net would get a boost, and easily overtake Gnutella.

That is because,by u'r opinions,FT ,with it's bogus client, performs as good as the modified Gnutella protocols(G2,GUESS)(for kazaa's network is pretty good,and I always say a good network with a bogus client always performs better than a weak network with a good client).Some new hacks (KazaaLite, Kazaa++) are removing the limitations of Kazaa.That might push Kazaa to remove the limitations (search result, limitation of connecting to sources),and add features like connecting to multiple SuperNodes,which Will improve the performance.

That's why it's really necessary to improve and modify the current Gnutella network.

[Sephiroth]

Yes but Kazaa doesnt want the limitations removed and if enough people start using them and other programs kazaa probably considers malicious then the fasttrack network will get worse performance.

Why searches need to be improved? Because right now they are done using a broadcast method is are not that efficient and uses up alot of bandwidth. With a proposal like GUESS users are able to search more of the network than in the past and using less bandwidth and it should scale.

Which with that and maybe improving large file transfers which there are allready ideas to do that with partial file sharing, queues to some degree and etc. then Gnutella should be able to compete with the propierty networks pretty well.

[evilmegaman]

ok well I see the arguments and I am on Seph's side with shareaza and gnutella2 except I do like g2. I say if you're going to release a new and improved gnutella make sure it is ready rather than showing off with no specs. And as for absolution, leafs downloading through the ultrapeers is untrue. All the ultrapeers do is set up the connection then the leafs directly connect to eachother... it seems to have many failures but I have many failures on fasttrack.... I can't find stuff on Fasttrack that I find on gnutella. I take my time in choosing ultrapeers that are good. also run Limewire's peer server if you have a high connection and you're not on the computer because wow those servers are better than any other g1 servers out there IMHO.

[Anenga2]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Thats what i think will ultimately be done. When shareaza releases the specs (which they should because they promised too) then then other developers will take the parts they like add it to the current network along with GUESS.

Since Mike has allready said that he will support GUESS, Gnutella2 is unlikely to replace the current network and will either just be a propierty feature of shareaza and maybe a few other programs or just fade away.

Which ill get flamed for saying it but thats just my forecast based on the numerous GDF posts and past experiances in how ultimately i think that it will play out and there is probably a good probability that it will happen that way but since a few things have to be assumed it could all change so there are a few senarios of what could happen.
The GDF should add G2 fully, or not incorperate any of it's components.

GUESS on G1 won't be as efficent as Gnutella2. GUESS will learn they will soon have to add Hub Clustering to the GUESS spec for things to work as good as Gnutella2 does, and if they are going to go and use that then they should just incorperate Gnutella2 fully. Hub Clustering is very complex to implament, and I imagine even far more complex on Gnutella1. Gnutella1 is just outdated and the entire framework already sucks, so why even keep it?

So my prediction is that even though LW/BS will take ideas from Gnutella2, it will take a long time to get it working even remotely as efficent as Gnutella2. And they will no doubt come to a point where they'll even consider just using G2, but wont' because of personal reasons.

Meanwhile, Gnutella2 will work fine and will be more efficent and stable than G1+GUESS. Gnucleus and GnucDNA will be avaliable, and G2 will progress and be more widely implamented, and G1 will "fade away".

[Anenga2]

Originally posted by evilmegaman
ok well I see the arguments and I am on Seph's side with shareaza and gnutella2 except I do like g2. I say if you're going to release a new and improved gnutella make sure it is ready rather than showing off with no specs. And as for absolution, leafs downloading through the ultrapeers is untrue. All the ultrapeers do is set up the connection then the leafs directly connect to eachother... it seems to have many failures but I have many failures on fasttrack.... I can't find stuff on Fasttrack that I find on gnutella. I take my time in choosing ultrapeers that are good. also run Limewire's peer server if you have a high connection and you're not on the computer because wow those servers are better than any other g1 servers out there IMHO.
In all fairness, Mike was releasing the specs. Until the GDF started to just sling mud and flames, instead of debating and discussing the specs.

So because of that, Mike has stopped publishing the specs.

I think Mike should only share the specs with Gnucleus, then after GnucDNA is avaliable and Shareaza has a much bigger grasp on marketshare should the specs be released.

[CrAzYMaNiAk54]

Sephiroth.. you said that once the specs come out and other programs will use it to make GUESS better and G2 wil only be a special feature for shareaza/ a couple other programs? WTF! Dude, Shareaza's G2, once they release the specs.. Will be awesome.. Gnucleus will implement G2 and some other programs causing there too be enough users and files that G2 will most likely rip off of Gnutella..(after implementing GUESS) and there will be no need for Gnutella anymore and the old programs such as LimeWire and Bearshare who refuse to move on will fade away with their old boring GUESS crap and Shareaza and the programs who adopted G2 will live on and make a great network...
As for the G2 comparison to Kazaa.. I wont even start, this has been discussed many many MANY times.. Don't compare Kazaa ( 3 million poeple +) to Shareaza (80,000+ alone)...
I agree with Anennga.. The specs (for now) should only be shown to Gnucles and other program who want to implement G2 and once Mike feels comfortable he could release the specs to everybody.

[Psilaxs]

LMAO, not about the discusion, but has anyone noticed ASHITAKA'S name is being censored? LMAO AsheeTakah A****AKA <<See lol

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Anenga2
Gnutella1 is just outdated and the entire framework already sucks, so why even keep it?


Says who?

Gnutella is highly extendable and can be changed and adapted to pretty much anything.. Why keep it? Because new protocols bring up new complex problems like ownership, rights, documentation, debugging, and breaks backwards compatibility.

Originally posted by Anenga2
In all fairness, Mike was releasing the specs. Until the GDF started to just sling mud and flames, instead of debating and discussing the specs.

So because of that, Mike has stopped publishing the specs.

I think Mike should only share the specs with Gnucleus, then after GnucDNA is avaliable and Shareaza has a much bigger grasp on marketshare should the specs be released.

I think that is a lame excuse and should not matter.. Many of the "flames" on the GDF are started by Shareaza forum members.. So its a pathetic excuse. Since Mike in his recent interview blasted the gdf programs and developers so if Mike and if you and others from the shareaza community can come here and elsewheres and flame people thats ok then?

No offense but Mike brought this on himself he wants to ignore the GDF and still use "gnutella2" as a name which its ovious that the GDF isnt going to discuss his protocol as long as he keeps using that name. Mike didnt release specs either they were just very general summarizations dont try to exgerrate.

As long as "gnutella2" is more "shock value" than fact and as long as Mike wants to do whats best for himself and not the rest of the network i cant and will not support it. This whole thing seems fishy too me and too good to be true, i have great doubt about shareaza intentions and how their actions are telling quite a different story and shareaza isnt the only program to come by making a bunch of promises so im not going to naively believe in the marketing that agenga here came up with.

If Mike does not want to keep his word and wants to go off with other programs and create a propierty protocol then i suggest he removes the parts of the site that say that shareaza will continue to follow the ideals of gnutella, stop using the gnutella name, and stop connecting to the "dark age" gnutella network.

Crazyman move on to what? Do you think people are going to blindly say im going to support a protocol which i have not seen? No that would be stupid.. Show me the link where John Marshall says that he will support "G2" you cant, and i think that its a exgerration started by agenga here. And if GUESS is so bad then why did Mike say that Shareaza will support it?

[2pacaveli]

Originally posted by Absolution
U don't get the idea why the Gnutella network should be upgraded,do u?Well,G2 or GUESS or what ever shit works almost as fast as FT network does,as u say it.Ok. But think of this,the clients which are providing these options are very much developed (limewire,shareaza), and has very few limitations.While kazaa doesn't hav that much options and has much limitations.Now,if kazaa removes the limitations,and adds much more options, (i.e. to attract more users) the FT net would get a boost, and easily overtake Gnutella.

That is because,by u'r opinions,FT ,with it's bogus client, performs as good as the modified Gnutella protocols(G2,GUESS)(for kazaa's network is pretty good,and I always say a good network with a bogus client always performs better than a weak network with a good client).Some new hacks (KazaaLite, Kazaa++) are removing the limitations of Kazaa.That might push Kazaa to remove the limitations (search result, limitation of connecting to sources),and add features like connecting to multiple SuperNodes,which Will improve the performance.

That's why it's really necessary to improve and modify the current Gnutella network.

Yes this is very true, but your forgetting that only one person made this, G2 would romp over Kazaa and any other network if a whole company was tweaking it! So before making bad comments about G2, just think that Kazaa is made by a company and G2 is made pratically by one person! :black