Abortion For Rape Victims ?

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Do you think rape victims should be allowed an abortion ? I would have thought any half-civilised person would oppose the idea of a rape victim being traumatised twice over by having the state force her to become a brood mare for her attacker.

But republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback disagrees. He says:

"Rape is terrible. Rape is awful, but rape victims' rights come secondary to those of an unborn child. Is (rape) made any better by killing an innocent child? Does it solve the problem for the woman that's been raped? We need to protect innocent life. Period"

read more (http://www.clickondetroit.com/politics/13479055/detail.html)

What do you think ? Should women be allowed to choose whether to carry the child of a man who raped them, or is the right to life a card that trumps all ?

[DwarfBaby]

No offense but who's Sam Brownback and why should I care what he thinks. It's not like he's going to win or anything.

Unless he plays the lottery at which point he has better odds of winning that, then the Presidency.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

He is a republican presidential nominee, or didn't you read the post?

There's no reason why you should care what he thinks, so if you don't, just pass on through...

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

I voted yes.

And since that's taking a life I say take a few more. When/if the rapist gets an STD from the person raped, I think they should be denied any curative drugs. Throw them in prison and let the wonders of contagion do its business.

[mfgbypooter]

sure, just not at taxpayer expense.

*

[Malakai1911]

All women should have the right to choose. Every trimester, every circumstance.

[MoonMan]

All women should have the right to choose. Every trimester, every circumstance.

Agreed with this completely.

[Howzat]

You would think that this wouldn't even be a topic for debate, that it was a no-brainer. But no, there are still those who would deny abortions to rape victims or to women whose health is at risk (for example http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6470403.stm).

As others have noted, it's not hard to imagine that abortion laws would be different if it was men who got pregnant.

[Mr. T]

I think all of you are ignoring the fundamental role that pregnancies from rape have played in the survival of our species.

Terrible sense of humor aside, I think abortion is murder...
Every trimester, every circumstance.

[Potato]

rape victims' rights come secondary to those of an unborn child
At what point is the fetus considered a child?




I believe that after a certain point in pregnancy, abortion is completely unethical.

[mr. hisser]

Yes, but it's still murder of an innocent life. I don't see why the unborn baby should suffer because the father is a rapist and the mother has been victimized. But the bottom line is that the mother definitely has the right to say what happens with her own body.

Men shouldn't even be allowed an opinion on the topic of abortion.

[Mels_Smileys45]

I have no idea, Its a hard choice that Im glad I will never have to face. If it was done early I see no problem but after the baby is alive I myself would not be able to punish an innocent life for the sins of the father or the mistake of the mother. I cant bring myself to kill a spider even.

I think about it like this: In the third trimester it would be the very same thing if the mother waited until the baby was born and then cut its head off. No difference at all. Would you let the mother kill her new born rape baby or kill the baby the day before it was to be born? Just because a baby is not born yet does not mean they are not living human beings. Is it the childs fault its father was a bastard? Why would the mother wait so long before solving her "problem" when it could be handled right away? Tie the newborn up and ram a clothshanger up its nose till its dead. Problem solved. No fuss no muss. What do you think is worse, rape or murder?

Just because you cant see the murder take place doesnt mean it didnt happen. There is no reason to wait until its a fully formed being before taking action. If the mother waits that long maybe she should just kill herself and take care of two birds with one bullet.


Don't get it twisted....

Im pro choice but with-in limits. 6 months is plenty of time to figure out a solution. Waiting any longer is cruel and irresponsible.

Hell, an unborn baby can't scream and it can't even vote so screw it eh? Im surprised anyone even cares at all.

[Excrement_Cranium]

Yes.

It should be standard practice in post-rape examinations to offer an emergency contraceptive, or "morning-after pill."


Since my mother nearly died due to old abortion laws, I am completely against them, as they are almost always completely ignorant.

[gorphon]

In Talmudic law, a fetus is not considered an independent living creature until one shoulder is visible and it has taken its first breath outside of the womb.

edit: I should add, this is going from memory of what I was taught years ago. Additionally, it was only considered acceptable to abort a pregnancy (at any point) if taking it to term would put the mother's life in jeopardy.

While I can not bring myself to accept that extreme I do believe in a woman's right to choose predicated by the belief that such a choice should never be made cavalierly.

[shivwhorra]

Well, I'm not a big fan of abortion, but in this case, I wouldn't want any woman to raise a child with whom every single moment she spends with him/her reminds her of one of the worst times of her life. Its just not right.

[uselesscrap]

i actually know a young woman that was raped, but kept her child. on top of that, the child was born autistic and will require care for her entire life.

i believe women should be able to choose. however, abortion should not be used as a birth control method every time some girl winds up prego. i would hope that each woman makes her choice based on intellegent, careful thought.

[DwarfBaby]

The choice should be the woman’s. If you don't like it, then don't do it, that's your choice.

Personally I find it distasteful but everybody's circumstances are different and there are many situations other then rape where an abortion would still be the right choice.

[Atheist Icon]

Unfortunately it will never be up to the woman if men are still in the decision making process of abortion or anything that relates to the womans body.

Let me put it this way, when my mother had her 2nd child by C-section, she decided that there were not going to be anymore children in the household, she wanted her tubes tied. The doctors asked my father if it was okay that they perform the procedure. My father's reply was, "Why are you asking me? It's her body."

Same thing was asked when my mother went in for a hysterectomy 20 years later. My father is still wondering why he was asked if they could perform the surgery.

Long story, short, it is the womans decision, not a mans decision.

[Excrement_Cranium]

i believe women should be able to choose. however, abortion should not be used as a birth control method every time some girl winds up prego..


Ok... not personal against you here... but that sentence is the finest example of slippery slope fucktard logic I can think of.

Just look it back over.

I think it should be their choice... but it shouldn't be used every time some chick gets pregnant.

Yeah... every time some chick gets pregnant.


That is the line of shit people use to shut down what should be a woman's personal choice.


If some chick gets pregnant 12 times in a year, and gets an abortion 12 times that same year, if you believe it is her choice, then it is just that, nothing else, HER CHOICE.

Any means of qualification nullify that liberty.

[Mels_Smileys45]

I say again, I think it should be the womans choice but IMO there should be a time limit within she has to make that choice. There is no reason why it should take longer than 6 months to figure it out. Once the woman has a living being that has feelings growing inside her she now has to not only make a choice for her but to also choose to kil or not kill a human being that has no defence in the matter. All women have a choice to smoke Meth and snort coke since its their body. So what if the baby dies from this or comes out blind, its her choice. She can always give away the troublesome child. Just because people have choices doesnt mean that they are right. There should always be limits placed upon people because 50% of the population are idiots. They need to be guided or the blood of the people would run like a river across trailer parks everywhere.

[mr. hisser]

Hey, why you boys got this obvious personal vendetta against us trailer park dwellers??

[Excrement_Cranium]

Hey, why you boys got this obvious personal vendetta against us trailer park dwellers??

I envy your lower house payments.

[mr. hisser]

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful. :(

[Mels_Smileys45]

Hey, why you boys got this obvious personal vendetta against us trailer park dwellers??



Actually I have nothing against anyone living in a trailer. Its just a term I use to generalize red necks you might see on cops. I myself lived in a trailer till I was 12. In the South I might add. DOUBLE WIDE YALL!


I know it sucks having people make broad generalizations about Southern people. I see it all the time. I also know that I am not one to fit in the peg hole they try to force me into. Now excuse me while I go beat the wife, she just burned my turkey pot pie and I need to bid on a weed wacker at Ebay yall!

[A TRUE PATRIOT]

No I dont believe in abortion UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. It is NEVER right to take someone elses life especially when that life happens to be a DEFENCELESS CHILD!!

The bible teaches us "from my mother’s womb you are my God". The process of life is holy us humans have NO RIGHT interrupting it.

[Potato]

Here's what I believe: It's not up to a whole fuckton of strangers to dictate what a woman can do with her body.

Sure, you may believe in God and the Bible, but you should not push your RELIGIOUS views into LAW and therefore onto a bunch of people who couldn't give a shit less what you think (but would unfortunately have to follow the law unless they want to risk infection from having the abortion in dirty environments).

[Mr. T]

Here's what I believe: It's not up to a whole fuckton of strangers to dictate what a woman can do with her body.

I've known you for a few years so I don't really qualify as a stranger....

You mind if I dictate what should happen with your body?

--

My response to EC's opinion that a woman has the right to abort every month if she chooses is to agree in the first part. I support the right for a woman to get an abortion in the first 2 trimesters if she feels she needs to. However I also feel the law should say that if she's back within 12 months looking for another they should tie her tubes while she's under.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Why would a woman wait till the baby is developed and then decide to kill it? That makes zero sense. Six months is more than ample time for them to make up their mind. Why not pass a law saying its ok to slit the babies throat if you dont like it in the first few days after its born. Its still the same baby that was in the womb a few days earlier. Thats fucked up that anyone would say its okay to kill a baby at any point. Before its alive okay, if thats what floats your man in the boat but after it has feelings, thoughts, hands, fingers, a brain, life, its murder even if you cant hear the baby scream when they dice the baby up (well sometimes they just make the girl push the dead baby out into a toilet). Anyone who would wait 8 months and then abort should be punched in the face and often enough to make them so ugly no one will fuck them ever again.

[mountain_rage]

I've known you for a few years so I don't really qualify as a stranger....

You mind if I dictate what should happen with your body?

--

My response to EC's opinion that a woman has the right to abort every month if she chooses is to agree in the first part. I support the right for a woman to get an abortion in the first 2 trimesters if she feels she needs to. However I also feel the law should say that if she's back within 12 months looking for another they should tie her tubes while she's under.

This is probably the most intelligent view yet. Abortion shouldn't be used as a means of contraception and I bet that there are a good deal of people who pull a Paris Hilton (not learn from their mistakes) and get pregnant time and time again only the abort the baby time and time again. If you are too stupid to start taking measures to prevent yourself from getting pregnant you should have your tubes tied.

[cheta]

All women should have the right to choose. Every trimester, every circumstance.

agree 100%

This is probably the most intelligent view yet. Abortion shouldn't be used as a means of contraception and I bet that there are a good deal of people who pull a Paris Hilton (not learn from their mistakes) and get pregnant time and time again only the abort the baby time and time again. If you are too stupid to start taking measures to prevent yourself from getting pregnant you should have your tubes tied.

also a great point abortion CANNOT be used as contraception, just for accidents

[Mels_Smileys45]

Originally Posted by Malakai1911 View Post
All women should have the right to choose. Every trimester, every circumstance.



agree 100%







How can anyone agree that abortion should be legal the day before labor? Thats retarded. Do you not think the baby is a human until it sticks its head out the pussy?



How about this: If some guy goes around punching pregnant ladies in the belly and the babies keep dieing is that okay to? Should there be a law that makes it okay since some people feel these almost full term babies are not human? If all abortion is legal and its not murder how can there be a double standard? Stupid


Pay I guy to kill the 8 month old = fine and dandy

Guy punches lady in the belly and kills baby = well I guess thats dandy too. Same thing in the end. If ones not murder then neither is the other.

[Malakai1911]

How can anyone agree that abortion should be legal the day before labor? Thats retarded. Do you not think the baby is a human until it sticks its head out the pussy?
Fetus until birth.

How about this: If some guy goes around punching pregnant ladies in the belly and the babies keep dieing is that okay to? Should there be a law that makes it okay since some people feel these almost full term babies are not human? If all abortion is legal and its not murder how can there be a double standard? Stupid
Assault is illegal.
Abortion is legal.

Pay I guy to kill the 8 month old = fine and dandy

Guy punches lady in the belly and kills baby = well I guess thats dandy too. Same thing in the end. If ones not murder then neither is the other.
Situation 1 is elective abortive procedure.
Situation 2 is assault.

Neither are murder.

[Malakai1911]

This is probably the most intelligent view yet. Abortion shouldn't be used as a means of contraception and I bet that there are a good deal of people who pull a Paris Hilton (not learn from their mistakes) and get pregnant time and time again only the abort the baby time and time again. If you are too stupid to start taking measures to prevent yourself from getting pregnant you should have your tubes tied.

Unfortunately this is the kind of hypothetical thinking that shouldn't be entertained. Show me a study similar to one performed by the guttmacher institute (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2411798.html) stating a statistical number of women who use abortion as contraception. I bet the numbers are quite low.

There are women who aren't using protection that perform an abortive procedure... why?

"There are many reasons why women who want to avoid pregnancy do not use contraceptives, including ambivalence about pregnancy, lack of knowledge about contraception, their own or their partner's opposition to family planning, poor access to contraceptive services, fear of side effects and the woman's perception that she cannot become pregnant" - Westoff CF and Bankole A, Unmet Need: 1990-1994, DHS Comparative Studies, No. 16, Calverton, MD, USA: Macro International, 1995; and Bongaarts J and Bruce J, The causes of unmet need for contraception and the social content of services, Studies in Family Planning, 1995, 26(2):57-75.

[Mr. T]

Fetus until birth my arse-hair. Mel is completely right about this point. A late stage pregnancy termination is flat out baby murder.

"There are many reasons why women who want to avoid pregnancy do not use contraceptives, including ambivalence about pregnancy, lack of knowledge about contraception, their own or their partner's opposition to family planning, poor access to contraceptive services, fear of side effects and the woman's perception that she cannot become pregnant"

That's a laundry list of stupid.
- ambivalence toward pregnancy [how does that match the opening sentence if they don't care about pregnancy?
- lack of knowledge toward contraception [are these children or 3rd world? If this is a 16 year old in the western world she needs to be hit in the face with a brick]
- their own or their partner's opposition to family planning - [awesome reasoning, I think contraceptives are a sin... offing a baby is probably okay with the guy upstairs though]
- poor access to contraceptive services [the only example I won't bash]
- fear of side effects [explain this one, side effects of contraceptives? Is the pill the only contraceptive? That chick you read about, who died after the condom she swallowed burst, isn't really on the plain.]
- woman's perception that she cannot become pregnant [Another brick-to-the-face example]

[CCSDUDE]

Yes, but it's still murder of an innocent life. I don't see why the unborn baby should suffer because the father is a rapist and the mother has been victimized. But the bottom line is that the mother definitely has the right to say what happens with her own body.

Men shouldn't even be allowed an opinion on the topic of abortion.
there is no 'moral' innocent in the judical system

the legal concept of being innocent requires there be a crime

it's a fetus not a child as it requires a host to live thus mom can do what she wants

really now... it's not the masses choice to make and since free will is in play here the only logical step is to use whatever stem cells can be pulled from any freely choosen abortion

[Mels_Smileys45]

Malakai1911, have you recently been hit in the head or something? You usually make some sense but your post makes me wonder how much pot you be smokin'.


it's a fetus not a child as it requires a host to live thus mom can do what she wants


So it wouldnt be murder if I punched an expecting mother in the belly and she lost her fetus? Just assualt right? A fetus is still a living human being. Man what the fuck? Kill a baby the day before birth? Thats fucked up. Why not just wait and toss it in a dumpster. Its cheaper and just as dead.



6 months is way enough time to get rid of the problem child. Before it starts dreaming, before it has a heartbeat. When the heart starts beating, its a living being, regaurdless how it gets its food ect. A baby needs its mother to feed it after birth too, that doesnt mean its not human and it certainly doesnt mean the mother should be able to ram a cloths hanger up the childs nose and scramble its brains if she is just to lazy to take care of the little person.


Women should have a choice, being: You can get an abortion. You have 6 months to figure it out. If they cant decide before the heart starts beating, its to late, its murder. Only a retard wouldnt be able to figure something out in 6 months. Its a fact that the fetus brain is developed by the 3rd term. You can hear the heart beat and watch the baby move around. It even responds to light. In some cases babies have been born this early and lived. Its a living being. I cant be more clear than that. To say it has no right to continue to live because the mother doesnt want it at this point is absurd.


Its clear that those with a respectable IQ level and a handle on morals/ethics have to make choices for the morons. The choices may not always be right for everyone but god damn, there shouldnt even be a debate on killing a baby right before its born.

[Kevin33134]

I believe mothers should be able to abort children from conception to the age of 17.

[Malakai1911]

Malakai1911, have you recently been hit in the head or something? You usually make some sense but your post makes me wonder how much pot you be smokin'.Technology discussion is one thing, but veer into politics and there is a polarity on issues, with little middle ground.

So it wouldnt be murder if I punched an expecting mother in the belly and she lost her fetus? Just assualt right? A fetus is still a living human being. Man what the fuck? Kill a baby the day before birth? Thats fucked up. Why not just wait and toss it in a dumpster. Its cheaper and just as dead.
I'm with CCSDUDE on this one, the fetus is basically a parasite until birth.

6 months is way enough time to get rid of the problem child. Before it starts dreaming, before it has a heartbeat. When the heart starts beating, its a living being, regaurdless how it gets its food ect. A baby needs its mother to feed it after birth too, that doesnt mean its not human and it certainly doesnt mean the mother should be able to ram a cloths hanger up the childs nose and scramble its brains if she is just to lazy to take care of the little person.
According to the CDC only 1.4% of abortions are performed in the third trimester. Reasons aren't tracked, but extrapolating from the guttmacher statistics, you can hypothesize that very few of those are for reasons of birth control. If any.

Women should have a choice, being: You can get an abortion. You have 6 months to figure it out. If they cant decide before the heart starts beating, its to late, its murder. Only a retard wouldnt be able to figure something out in 6 months. Its a fact that the fetus brain is developed by the 3rd term. You can hear the heart beat and watch the baby move around. It even responds to light. In some cases babies have been born this early and lived. Its a living being. I cant be more clear than that. To say it has no right to continue to live because the mother doesnt want it at this point is absurd.The fetal brain doesnt even make thalamic connections until 30 weeks of development (thats right, a mere 7 weeks prior to full-term, less than 2 months to delivery), I don't think you could even make a credible case for a fetus being a baby before that.

Its clear that those with a respectable IQ level and a handle on morals/ethics have to make choices for the morons. The choices may not always be right for everyone but god damn, there shouldnt even be a debate on killing a baby right before its born.Only 1.4% of abortions are performed in the third trimester. This is not a staggering problem, and many of them might be just after the second trimester for all we know.

I used to argue some of the same points as those here, but as the republicans keep trying to chip away at Roe v. Wade, I can't keep acquiescing to every little "what if" over the issue. So you know what? Every trimester, every circumstance, at the sole discretion of the mother, under the care of an OBGYN of her choice, at a proper medical facility.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Where to begin where to begin. First off, no one is talking about how many 3rd trimester abortions that are being done. We are talking about should there be a law against it.

Second, as you said, and its good you took the time to use google, in the 3rd trimester the brain starts controlling body functions which is what Ive been saying all along. There have been cases of extreme premature births and the babies survived.

Third, the baby is in a symbiotic relationship with its mother. One life depends on another. Just because it depends on its mother for life does not mean that it is not alive or does not have feelings. [even a parasite is alive BTW] If a baby is sucking on its moms tit is it still a parasite? Its still depending on its mother for life. Should anyone be able to hit it in the head with a rock because it can't get a job and feed itself? Babies are born with knowledge to survive so they must be able to think before they are born. Saying its ok to kill a baby when its already a developed being is completly nuts and will only result in the total ban of abortions.

Just because the brain is not fully connected to all senses does not mean the baby is not a being yet. Again, this does happen in the 3rd tri which is why it should be considered murder. If the baby can be removed (healthy) from the mother just as easily as it could be killed, its clearly murder. If you just don't care then there is no way to change your mind about this issue. I can only take comfort that there are many people who think that the third tri should not be an option. I will add I have seen an interview with a mother that did a late term abortion and to this day, many years after the fact, she is still traumatized. They had her sit on a tiolet and push out a fully developed child into a toilet. Its a pretty picture. One minute there is wonderous life the next its being shat into a toilet.

And last but not least. I dont give a fuck about Democrat, Republican, ect. ect. To me, anyone who makes up their mind on an issue purely because its a Rep or Dem issue is crazy. I always listen to what all sides have to say and then try to pick who I think is the best rounded person for the job. People who do not know all the issues and vote for someone because they belong to a certain party should not vote at all. But.... thats a whole other topic.

[Excrement_Cranium]

Where to begin where to begin. First off, no one is talking about how many 3rd trimester abortions that are being done. We are talking about should there be a law against it.

Short topic, short answer. NO.


Because of abortion laws, my mother had to carry a dead fetus until it nearly killed her. Laws rarely carry enough distinction to address all possible issues. Because of this, very good reasons for one thing are not enough, because vaguely worded laws distinguish what should be an exception as something that is still illegal.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Short topic, short answer. NO.


Because of abortion laws, my mother had to carry a dead fetus until it nearly killed her. Laws rarely carry enough distinction to address all possible issues. Because of this, very good reasons for one thing are not enough, because vaguely worded laws distinguish what should be an exception as something that is still illegal.


So you advocate aborting a third tri baby?


What you said doesnt make sense. They made your mother carry a dead baby? Ive never heard of any doctor making someone do this. Ive heard of women having their babies taken when it put their lives at risk. That just doesnt sound right.


There is not a good reason for aborting a living being. Zero. Someone would be happy to take the child and raise it. As ive said at least 5 times in this thread and a few have ingored is that 6 months is pleanty of time to make up ones mind and that should be the law. After 6 months there is a risk that the doctor would be killing a human being and there is not any reason why anyone should be allowed to kill the living. This opens the door wide open for other types of murder. There can not be double standards.

[mfgbypooter]

I work with an idiot that is a prime example of why abortion should remain legal.

*

[Mels_Smileys45]

I wouldnt mind aborting a few long termers myself. If you have enough money even thats legal.

[Potato]

Who has a uterus here? I'm going to assume that most of you don't...


Imagine you were raped. Imagine you got pregnant. Do you want to carry a baby for nine months knowing that if you weren't raped that you wouldn't be in that situation? Let's say you don't want to have the baby because you think it'd be a constant reminder of a horrible event in your life. Let's say abortion is illegal (for everyone). How frustrating would that be?

[Mels_Smileys45]

Who has a uterus here? I'm going to assume that most of you don't...


Imagine you were raped. Imagine you got pregnant. Do you want to carry a baby for nine months knowing that if you weren't raped that you wouldn't be in that situation? Let's say you don't want to have the baby because you think it'd be a constant reminder of a horrible event in your life. Let's say abortion is illegal (for everyone). How frustrating would that be?


I dint think anyone is saying a rape victim should have to have the baby. We have strayed way off they topic.

[Malakai1911]

I dint think anyone is saying a rape victim should have to have the baby. We have strayed way off they topic.

Speaking of OT I like your avatar.

[Mr. T]

I dint think anyone is saying a rape victim should have to have the baby. We have strayed way off they topic.

Good grief. A woman like Potato starts to talk about her uterus and you start to worry about being off-topic? Queer.

Come Potato, tell us about your uterus. Your mother's too.

[Excrement_Cranium]

So you advocate aborting a third tri baby?


What you said doesnt make sense. They made your mother carry a dead baby? Ive never heard of any doctor making someone do this. Ive heard of women having their babies taken when it put their lives at risk. That just doesnt sound right.


There is not a good reason for aborting a living being. Zero. Someone would be happy to take the child and raise it. As ive said at least 5 times in this thread and a few have ingored is that 6 months is pleanty of time to make up ones mind and that should be the law. After 6 months there is a risk that the doctor would be killing a human being and there is not any reason why anyone should be allowed to kill the living. This opens the door wide open for other types of murder. There can not be double standards.

Basically, what I was trying to explain, was the fact that poorly worded laws prevented even a failed pregnancy to be terminated.

The problem is slippery-slope logic, and laws which do not take into consideration every possible situation which there might be a good reason for a third-trimester abortion.

[CCSDUDE]

Basically, what I was trying to explain, was the fact that poorly worded laws prevented even a failed pregnancy to be terminated.

The problem is slippery-slope logic, and laws which do not take into consideration every possible situation which there might be a good reason for a third-trimester abortion.
this is the system being lazy

they're saying flat out no because they refuse to address things case by case

it could be done with no law while respecting choice in any situation

drug laws go and all the case history of 'users' get recycled into paper plates lol now you have resources to use in actually helping people in need of medical care (gains 300lbs 'n talks like moore's fat ass) "FOR FREE"

hows that for off topic?

[mr. hisser]

If a baby is sucking on its moms tit is it still a parasite? Its still depending on its mother for life. Should anyone be able to hit it in the head with a rock because it can't get a job and feed itself?

Point very well made. All babies, unborn and born alike, depend on the mother to sustain life.

My daughter was born in the 2nd trimester for a cancer related thing. Long story. Anyway, we chose to have her, even though the doctors really pushed for us to abort (for chemotherapy reasons. Again, long story). A decade later, she's alive and well and perfect and wonderful and lovely and brilliant and amazing and I'm sure the earth spins solely because of HER.

When she was first born and I first laid eyes on her, I never for one minute thought, "Goddamn, what is THAT? It aint even done cookin' yet!! That aint no real baby!"

Of course she was a baby. A tiny, darling, perfect baby.

Aborting her would have been murder, plain and simple.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

I'm with CCSDUDE on this one, the fetus is basically a parasite until birth.


This comment makes you sound no less disgusting than the anti-abortion nutcases who advocate killing doctors. As T made plain, a third trimester fetus IS a human being, and should be accorded the same ethical status as any other human being.

Sure an unborn child may be dependent on the mother for survival, but that makes it a parasite only in the same sense that a mentally handicapped person or someone who requires kidney dialysis is a "parasite".


Point very well made. All babies, unborn and born alike, depend on the mother to sustain life.

My daughter was born in the 2nd trimester for a cancer related thing. Long story. Anyway, we chose to have her, even though the doctors really pushed for us to abort (for chemotherapy reasons. Again, long story). A decade later, she's alive and well and perfect and wonderful and lovely and brilliant and amazing and I'm sure the earth spins solely because of HER.

When she was first born and I first laid eyes on her, I never for one minute thought, "Goddamn, what is THAT? It aint even done cookin' yet!! That aint no real baby!"

Of course she was a baby. A tiny, darling, perfect baby.

Aborting her would have been murder, plain and simple.

That's a great post, and I agree with you.

[mr. hisser]

The fetal brain doesnt even make thalamic connections until 30 weeks of development (thats right, a mere 7 weeks prior to full-term, less than 2 months to delivery), I don't think you could even make a credible case for a fetus being a baby before that.

I'm quite skeptical about this. In fact, I'm certain you are wrong.

Can you please provide credible sources?

Edit: Bigger concern: What makes you think this is the point of relevancy anyway? My daughter was born before 30 weeks. :\

[Malakai1911]

I'm quite skeptical about this. In fact, I'm certain you are wrong.

Can you please provide credible sources?

Edit: Bigger concern: What makes you think this is the point of relevancy anyway? My daughter was born before 30 weeks. :\

I think its a great thing she made it at before the 30 week mark, the odds were definately not in her favor. Things aren't exact or definitive though, each fetus is different.

"the neurological pathway of cortico-thalamic connections are found at 24–28 weeks of gestation, "..... Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester."" - http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/wwwhuman/FetalPain.htm which had sourced from JAMA. 2005 Aug 24;294(8):947-54.

"Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks." - JAMA jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/8/947

Emphasis on "begin appearing"... the connections may start to form from 23-30 weeks, but may not be finished developing. We can be fairly certain these connections in the brain have finished developing by the 30 week mark. Whether further development is required before being considered an independent human being I suppose is a point of contention.

[DwarfBaby]

I believe children are parasites until they turn eighteen when you can legally kick them out the house.

Anyways, I believe the morning after pill is a Godsend, because sometimes "things happen" when your not expecting them too. And let's face it. Most of the time abortion can be prevented by simple good habits and the above mentioned product. There are exceptions but in general my last statement is true.

Obviously abortion should stay legal for many reasons, I only think it should be considered an absolute last option.

[mr. hisser]

The original intent of this thread was to pose the question of whether abortion should be allowed for a rape victim. It seems the concensus is yes.

Best I can tell, opinions mostly started to veer as we discussed when it was no longer an appropriate option.

I think this thread has served its purpose. Where's one a' them bully admins when we need them to come close a thread?

[iceblaze]

abortion shouldn't just be allowed for rape victims but for every woman. every person has a right to decide whether or not to have a baby and governments shouldn't intervene

[coccoster]

yeri think there should be abortion for anyone really, if the girl doesnt want the baby, have an abortion

[max999z]

of course we have that right.

[max999z]

I think this thread has served its purpose. Where's one a' them bully admins when we need them to come close a thread?

lord of the dense is not here right now.:icon_rr: :icon_thum

[max999z]

Point very well made. All babies, unborn and born alike, depend on the mother to sustain life.

My daughter was born in the 2nd trimester for a cancer related thing. Long story. Anyway, we chose to have her, even though the doctors really pushed for us to abort (for chemotherapy reasons. Again, long story). A decade later, she's alive and well and perfect and wonderful and lovely and brilliant and amazing and I'm sure the earth spins solely because of HER.

When she was first born and I first laid eyes on her, I never for one minute thought, "Goddamn, what is THAT? It aint even done cookin' yet!! That aint no real baby!"

Of course she was a baby. A tiny, darling, perfect baby.

Aborting her would have been murder, plain and simple.

Glad your baby is alive and you stuck by your guns for keeping your child and not aborting her.

On a side note
I am pro choice when it comes to abortion, no one will tell me if I will have an abortion or not, aside from that I do believe a child should not be aborted after a certain point as time passes by though. I definitely dont believe in that partial abortion procedure only if the womens life is in danger.

[max999z]

Ok... not personal against you here... but that sentence is the finest example of slippery slope fucktard logic I can think of.

Just look it back over.

I think it should be their choice... but it shouldn't be used every time some chick gets pregnant.

Yeah... every time some chick gets pregnant.


That is the line of shit people use to shut down what should be a woman's personal choice.


If some chick gets pregnant 12 times in a year, and gets an abortion 12 times that same year, if you believe it is her choice, then it is just that, nothing else, HER CHOICE.

Any means of qualification nullify that liberty.
hmm if a women has a abortion say like a couple of times it can scar the lining of the uterus preventing her from conceiving.

Having an abortion 12 times is dum and retarted the 3rd time around she should get her tubes tie or something or practice some time of birth control.


A doctor knows more or less how many times a women has an abortion.

Abortion should be a womens choice once again but if she keeps having abortions then she should pay the bill out of her own pocket.

Honestly if a women has like 5 abortions something is up and the doctor should refer her to some place to get her some emotional help.

[Excrement_Cranium]

hmm if a women has a abortion say like a couple of times it can scar the lining of the uterus preventing her from conceiving.


:o


D'oh!

Imagine that! Didn't even get mentioned!

*muah*

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

The original intent of this thread was to pose the question of whether abortion should be allowed for a rape victim. It seems the concensus is yes.

Best I can tell, opinions mostly started to veer as we discussed when it was no longer an appropriate option.

I think this thread has served its purpose. Where's one a' them bully admins when we need them to come close a thread?

When Grab says it's ok, then we'll do it. I don't think you're quite ready to wear his pants yet.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

I don't think you're quite ready to wear his pants yet.

You got that right.

[mr. hisser]

When Grab says it's ok, then we'll do it. I don't think you're quite ready to wear his pants yet.

So you close threads only when Grab allows you to? ROFL. I'm not the only one who's not quite ready to wear the pants ;)

[Mr. T]

Jump back to the first page and look at who started the thread.

[Bahnzo]

At what point is the fetus considered a child?




I believe that after a certain point in pregnancy, abortion is completely unethical.

To quote the great Bill Hicks - "You aren't a person until I can find your name in my phone book!"

[sister_sue48]

I can only say what I believe. Each woman who gets raped should decide. Not the government! Especially the male gov. reps. They wouldn't ever be carrying the child of a rape or raising the child. Having the emotional breakdown of the ordeal.

[ROMANTICGUY50]

I can only say what I believe. Each woman who gets raped should decide. Not the government! Especially the male gov. reps. They wouldn't ever be carrying the child of a rape or raising the child. Having the emotional breakdown of the ordeal.

Hummm I wasn't online yesterday the 29th?????? This is sister_sue48 on romantics puter.

[mfgbypooter]

someone answered the poll without posting which still updates the thread.

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