The Lebanon - What CNN never shows you [Archive]

kerjodando

July 22nd, 2006, 12:10 AM

What CNN never shows you

Monday, July 17, 2006: Kiryat shmona
Israeli girls write messages on a shell at a heavy artillery position firing into civilians inside Lebanon
http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/files/childAbuseAndHate2.jpg
(AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)

See From Israel to Lebanon ************click here ************ (http://fromisraeltolebanon.info)

Found this on another p2p site - I also think that this news is been managed on the mainstream media.

IMHO civilians should not be punished by civilised western governments (Israel) for the crimes of terrorist living in their country.

It's like saying the UK should have bombed Dublin when the IRA bombed London.

Minister condemns Israeli action

Foreign Office minister Kim Howells has criticised Israel's bombardment of Lebanon, while on a visit to Beirut.
He said Israel had not carried out "surgical strikes" and attacking the Lebanese nation was not the answer.

Mr Howells said: "I very much hope that the Americans understand what's happening to Lebanon.

"The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people. These have not been surgical strikes.

"And it's very very difficult I think to understand the kind of military tactics that have been used.

"You know, if they're chasing Hezbollah, then go for Hezbollah. You don't go for the entire Lebanese nation."

from BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5205658.stm)

Under the Fourth Geneva Convention, he pointed out, parties in war must do their best to protect civilians. "You cannot intentionally target civilians or intentionally put civilians into harm's way. You must do your best not to target civilians."

taken from US INFO RE Geneva Convention (http://usinfo.state.gov/dhr/Archive/2003/Oct/09-932878.html)

What has the UN Human Rights Commissioner said?

The Commissioner, Louise Arbour, has raised the possibility of prosecution. "The scale of killings in the region, and their predictability, could engage the personal criminal responsibility of those involved, particularly those in a position of command and control," she said.

"International humanitarian law is clear on the supreme obligations to protect civilians during hostilities."

"Indiscriminate shelling of cities constitutes a foreseeable and unacceptable targeting of civilians", she said. "Similarly, the bombardment of sites with alleged military significance, but resulting invariably in the killing of innocent civilians, is unjustifiable."

Does this mean that there could be a war crimes trial?

That would not be easy. Israel is not a party to the International Criminal Court and nor is Hezbollah. There would have to be a separate procedure agreed by the UN.

Has the International Committee of the Red Cross spoken?

Yes. The Head of ICRC Operations, Pierre Kraehenbuehl said: "The civilian population is bearing an extremely heavy burden and consequences of the military action that is under way.

"The high number of civilian casualties and the extensive damage to essential public infrastructure does raise, in our view, serious questions regarding the respect of the principle of proportionality in the conduct of hostilities."

taken from BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5198342.stm)
Note the UK is one of Israel's and US's greatest allies

'Callous retribution'

In an emotional televised appeal, the Lebanese prime minister urged the international community to intervene.

"I call upon you all to respond immediately... and provide urgent international humanitarian assistance to our war-stricken country," Mr Siniora said.

"Can the international community stand by while such callous retribution by the state of Israel is inflicted on us?"

He vowed to make Israel pay compensation to Lebanon for the "barbaric destruction".

from BBC website again (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5196800.stm)

Where are the people who think they can define what terrorism is? Killing innocent civilians, blocking all forms of transport in and out of the country and stopping daily life is not terrorism but a war against terrorism. When are people going to look at the world with their own eyes? Where are the people who want peace in the world?
Khwaja Umair, London, UK
from BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/5194826.stm#arabic)

SAVE LEBONESE CIVILIANS SIGN THIS PETITION IF YOUR COUNTRY STILL PERMITS FREDOM OF EXPRESSION (http://epetition.net/julywar/index.php)

lifehacker

July 22nd, 2006, 12:46 AM

bobhss

July 22nd, 2006, 04:58 AM

Oh My! War causes people to get hurt and killed! I can't believe it. Let's just have peace?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/pacifists_versus_peace.html

Peace through victory. If the people of Lebanon don't want Hezbollah screwing up their lives they should get rid of them. If they can't then someone else will.

lifehacker

July 22nd, 2006, 05:36 AM

RACKnRAIL

July 22nd, 2006, 05:46 AM

What makes me sick is when I watch CNN propaganda bullshit. There is a truth and it's out there, but it sure as hell ain't on CNN.

Jared Moya

July 22nd, 2006, 07:21 AM

Note the UK is one of Israel's and US's greatest allies

Uh, actually theyre not. The Israelis did a pretty good job of pissing them off when it was run by the Brits. They killed a number of soldiers in a wide variety of bombings and attacks.

Nice to see u sticking around BTW kerjodando. But, to be honest, the fact that standing armies no longer fight the wars anymore, the Geneva Concention is pretty much relegated to history. I mean has Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, Shining Path, TLF, or the IRA signed it? No. So then what does that mean for us? And actually, to get technical, these groups dont qualify for protection under the Geneva Convention as must wear uniforms and be a signatory to its covenant.

kerjodando

July 22nd, 2006, 07:29 AM

Uh, actually theyre not. The Israelis did a pretty good job of pissing them off when it was run by the Brits. They killed a number of soldiers in a wide variety of bombings and attacks.

Nice to see u sticking around BTW kerjodando. But, to be honest, the fact that standing armies no longer fight the wars anymore, the Geneva Concention is pretty much relegated to history. I mean has Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, Shining Path, TLF, or the IRA signed it? No. So then what does that mean for us? And actually, to get technical, these groups dont qualify for protection under the Geneva Convention as must wear uniforms and be a signatory to its covenant.

Good points soulxtc

Also Israel has not signed it fully.

But you don't have to be a signatory to it to commit a war crime.

In the same way as you don't have to sign up to the ten commandments to commit murder :)

Jared Moya

July 22nd, 2006, 08:46 AM

Good points soulxtc

Also Israel has not signed it fully.

But you don't have to be a signatory to it to commit a war crime.

In the same way as you don't have to sign up to the ten commandments to commit murder :)

Yah but the whole war crime thing is a bunch of BS, the central guys in the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia 1975-1977 kille like 2 million people. Nobody did anything. Rwanda, 500,000 hacked to pieces, again UN did nothing. The UN only acts when its convenient, and war crimes are extension of that mindset. War crimes are a function of that. But, the UN has many "laws" enacted that make it act when criteria has been met. And, unfortunately, as we saw in Rwanda, the criteria is subject to debate.

lifehacker

July 22nd, 2006, 08:53 AM

Note the UK is one of Israel's and US's greatest allies.
First of all, as soulxtc already said- no its not. Great Britain occupied Israel after and before WWII and had a really hard time there after the Israelis wanted to get the British to leave (The book Exodus by Leon Uris is great if your interested in this topic and the middle eastern conflict in general).
Secondly, BBC is very biased when it comes to Middle eastern conflicts.

mountain_rage

July 22nd, 2006, 11:23 AM

shawners

July 22nd, 2006, 01:13 PM

I cant imagine any of these countries wanting peace or working together. There is probably terrorist cells or people who want to regain the government. The best thing is to start a war with another country, and get the president/leader of their country killed, and jump in to lead the country with promises of peace and being against anyone who harm their people. They need a coalition, a group of people from every country to go in and raid the terrorist. Each country has some form of terrorist hiding in their country or from their country.

kerjodando

July 22nd, 2006, 02:41 PM

Considering Hezbollah is part of the lebanese cabinet and greatly intergrated into its politics I wouldnt consider the lebanese people all that innocent. That would be like saying people who rooted for hilter were innocent of wrongdooing.

Also as other mentioned if you hide behind your people like cowards, then cry foul when your people die your being an idiot.

On top of everything else Hezbollah is targeting only civilians and I dont see anyone crying foul over the dozens of rockets shot into citys by them

Not just me that thinks the respense by Israel is disproportionate (sucks) the great and the good of the UK also think so. You watch CNN I watch the BBC that probably the reason why we have differing views.

Shadow foreign secretary William Hague said the right of Israel to defend itself was "clear" and calls for an unconditional Israeli ceasefire were "futile" unless rocket attacks on it stopped and captured soldiers were returned.

But he said Israel's "disproportionate" response was delaying efforts to bring about a ceasefire.

Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Mike Moore MP said Mr Howells's suggestion that calling for an immediate ceasefire would be no more than a meaningless gesture was "extraordinary".

He said this had "drawn attention to the degree of isolation of Britain and United States from most of the rest of world opinion".

from the BBC, a government organisation (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5205658.stm)

Even US jewish groups think what's going on is wrong,

From Gaza to Lebanon, the conflict over Israel has once again flared up into major violence, with civilians being the overwhelming majority of the victims. And, true to form, the blame game is in full swing. Cries of “they started it” can be heard loudly from all sides, and the voices talking about reasonable ways to end “it” are once again muted.

Jewish Voice for Peace (http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_663.shtml)

kokanezub

July 22nd, 2006, 05:59 PM

Israel is not trying to intentionally hurt civilians

dogg u must be crazy ***** im lebonese and i was just there. i just escaped from syria's road . i wake up in the mornin to explosions , if they wernt trying to hurt people then why bomb the houses. the sent papers to a village and said u got 2 hrs to leave, after the people were leaving they bombed the cars. Dogg isreal and lebonan hate each other. im telling u take it from a guy who was there. half a million people r sleeping in car lots streets because the house they spent years paying for and the business they spent years working on got hit in less than a second. isreal is throwning mini nukes and posion gas bombs. Now what do you think.

Unsueable Davey Brown

July 22nd, 2006, 10:45 PM

. isreal is throwning mini nukes and posion gas bombs. Now what do you think.

Well...since you ask...if you're talking about mini nukes, and poison gas bombs I think you're full of it. However if you choose to represent all Lebanese, and tell me you hate the Jews, and they hate you, I'd advise you both to stop that nonsense. It's not doing either of you any favours. The Jews don't like being bombed any more than you do. So why don't you both just stop supporting the war mongers who provoke this idiocy.

lifehacker

July 22nd, 2006, 11:38 PM

bobhss

July 23rd, 2006, 12:52 AM

isreal is throwning mini nukes and posion gas bombs. Now what do you think.

I would expect this from you kokanezub. I think you are probably wrong. Having not been there first hand I can't say, but with all of the "reporting" by the media going on, if your statement were true it would have been everywhere. What if I said millions of Lebanese were ready to fight the Israeli dogs to the death? Would I be right or making a huge misstatement such as yours?

kerjodando

July 23rd, 2006, 02:33 AM

dogg u must be crazy ***** im lebonese and i was just there. i just escaped from syria's road . i wake up in the mornin to explosions , if they wernt trying to hurt people then why bomb the houses. the sent papers to a village and said u got 2 hrs to leave, after the people were leaving they bombed the cars. Dogg isreal and lebonan hate each other. im telling u take it from a guy who was there. half a million people r sleeping in car lots streets because the house they spent years paying for and the business they spent years working on got hit in less than a second. isreal is throwning mini nukes and posion gas bombs. Now what do you think.

When a bomb explodes on your high street (main road) then it must feel like a mini nuke. The technology doesn't matter - twisted burning flesh smells the same what ever the explosive device.

Poison gas or a fire storm from a phosphor bomb - when a relative is disfigured by burns, and has lungs scorched by smoke and dust, does the technology matter.

So here I am in my safe house with my big car, fridge, TV and garden. How can I comment on someone elses misery be they Israeli or Lebonese and tell them, "they deserve it cos who they voted for" ( Isn't that what the terrorist say).

What would I do?

Someone bombs my street (the rest of the world say they have good reason to) - someone invades my country - someone kills my neighbours (collateral damage).

What would I do?

Fight back, join the army, become a partizan or just accept being screwed over by foreigners with a foreign religion (Judaism) and foreign language (Hebrew)?

What would I as a Christian Lebonese living in Beruit do?

Be a coward or do what was right?

Well I don't know perhaps I'd be too pragmatic to do anything but bitch on ZP to comfortable americans who think its all some big joke on the other side of the world in some poverty stricken third world back water.

History does come into it but that doesn't make it right.

If I was there now I'd be thinking one day my kids are going to ask me, "Daddy what did you do when they bombed or invaded our country and destroyed my future? And I hope I'd be able to answer them without feeling ashamed.

However history points to a different outcome, the weak always lose. You can put money on that:

The brutal story of British empire continues to this day

Top of the list is Palestine, a settler colony that Britain abandoned in 1947 after barely 30 years, having imposed a population of mostly European (Jewish) settlers on the indigenous people - one of the typical characteristics of imperial rule.

Unfortunately for the settlers, arriving during the imperial sunset, they had insufficient time to achieve the scale of defeat of the local people, amounting to extermination and genocide, that characterised the British conquest and settlement of Australia.

While the native peoples of Australia, drunk and demoralised, survive in shanty towns or reservations, those in Palestine have had some capacity to struggle against such a fate, organising a lasting resistance to the settlers, inspired by their own ancient religion and sustained by the support of a vast Arab hinterland.

The Australian settlers suffer from little more than a guilty conscience - if that- while the Israelis face a permanent and ineradicable threat.

Like the medieval crusaders, whose ruined castles dominate the landscape of the eastern Mediterranean, they will be lucky if their state lasts more than a century.

Many will surely abandon ship in despair.

Finally come Iraq and Afghanistan, two modern disasters that have their roots in the experience of empire.

Iraq was last in and first out of the British empire, though British military bases were not finally removed until the 1950s.

Fifty years later the British are back, British soldiers replacing the Indian sepoys who invaded the country on Britain's behalf during the first world war.

The British left in a hurry in the 1930s, and they will doubtless do so again.

Although nominally independent, Afghanistan was effectively within the imperial sphere for most of the 19th century, though successfully fighting three wars of resistance against the British.

The fourth Anglo-Afghan war is now in progress, to be followed as before by an Afghan triumph.

Note that in all cases the colonialist subjugated the natives or earned themselves a privilaged position as land-owner etc.

So kokanezub it looks very bleak for you- sorry :(

What is going on in Lebanon is evil in the same way that murder is regardless of history and international law:

Israeli jets bomb Lebanese cities

Israeli warplanes have struck at suspected Hezbollah sites in Sidon and the capital Beirut.

In Sidon, 14 people were injured and a mosque was destroyed in the first strikes on the southern port city.

The UN's humanitarian chief Jan Egeland has been touring shattered districts of Beirut, and said the devastation was "a violation of humanitarian law".

see BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5207152.stm)

Ne007

July 23rd, 2006, 08:26 AM

What they just said dosent make much sense. If they were trying to intentionally hurt as many Lebanese as possible why drop leaflets to tell you what areas will be bombed and to get out?

So when they kill civilians...they can say "hey..we dropped leaflets....they must have wanted to get blown up if they didn't leave their homes."

Goddam I hate how some people believe the bullshit that comes from war-mongering countries.

Do you think that if someone knew that their little girl was going to be blown up...do you think that their parents wouldn't take them somewhere else? What happens if people didn't see a leaflet? Their own bad luck I guess...their little kids get blown up.

LOL...but at LEAST they had the decency to drop leaflets in order to cover their asses. And some people buy it.

moneoa

July 23rd, 2006, 09:36 AM

Witness the creation of fundamentalisim and anti western sentiment.....

tackdaddy

July 23rd, 2006, 10:30 AM

no offense to any one but i say let them kill eachother. this shit just keeps going on and on and it will never end. both sides are fucking stupid and niether one is right so i say just let them finish eachother off and for once keep america away from somebody elses problems

lifehacker

July 23rd, 2006, 10:30 AM

So when they kill civilians...they can say "hey..we dropped leaflets....they must have wanted to get blown up if they didn't leave their homes."

Goddam I hate how some people believe the bullshit that comes from war-mongering countries.

Do you think that if someone knew that their little girl was going to be blown up...do you think that their parents wouldn't take them somewhere else? What happens if people didn't see a leaflet? Their own bad luck I guess...their little kids get blown up.

LOL...but at LEAST they had the decency to drop leaflets in order to cover their asses. And some people buy it.
There is no question about it that the leaflets are partially dropped as an excuse to the international community. However the leaflets also hurt Israel alarming Hizzbollah where Israel will strike next so they come at an expense for Israel too. Secondly, as I already said, no matter how a war is led civilians will always be hurt. If Hizzbollah is determined to hide behind the civilian population then is it really Israel's fault that civilians are hurt? Should Israel stop the war and let Hizzbollah continue firing rockets at Israeli cities because the Hizzbollah is cowardly hiding behind the civilian population, waiting for the death toll to rise and international pressure on Israel to kick in? Some people speak of diplomacy but there is no diplomatic resolution to this conflict (as already mentioned by bobhss with the article Here (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/pacifists_versus_peace.html)
). If Israel allows Hizzbollah to continue firing rockets and will not retaliate for the kidnapping of their soldiers it will inspire the Hizzbollah and other terrorist organizations. The movements and terrorist organizations as well as their actions and supporters will spread on the basis that they will not do anything about the attacks on its civilians and soldiers.

Also, Israel has nothing to gain in killing Lebanese civilians. On the contrary, it has much to lose: first of all the obvious- nobody wants international pressure. And secondly after this war is over Israel wants the Lebanese government to be in control of the territories where the Hizzbollah is currently located. Israel obviously does not want to occupy Lebanon after this war is over. The Israeli millitary controlled Southern Lebanon for some time, creating a buffer zone. Eventually however they left. Partially because of international pressure and partially because of their own death toll in the region. Israel wants and needs the Lebanese government and millitary to be in control of that area on their own territory to prevent further attacks as well as new terrorist organizations to regroup in Lebanon.

Ne007

July 23rd, 2006, 10:46 AM

If Israel allows Hizzbollah to continue firing rockets and will not retaliate for the kidnapping of their soldiers

The same logic says that Isreal should stop putting their targets next to civilians. Who's to say that Israel's targets are more selective than Hezbollahs? When Hezbollah kills Israeli civilians it is 100% on purpose and when Israeli's kill Lebanon civilians it is 100% colatoral damage.

It's just tit for tat when it comes to War. And the American public tends to view things as the media portrays things. If media would slant it the other way, then Israel would be the heartless terrorists and Lebanon would be the ones that are getting attacked.

Hell...America could swoop in and save the day from the invading Israelis just like in Kuwait.

lifehacker

July 23rd, 2006, 11:14 AM

The same logic says that Isreal should stop putting their targets next to civilians. Who's to say that Israel's targets are more selective than Hezbollahs? When Hezbollah kills Israeli civilians it is 100% on purpose and when Israeli's kill Lebanon civilians it is 100% colatoral damage.
Its impossible not putting targets next to civilians if all the terrorist targets place themselves in civilian areas to provoke exactly what you are saying right now. However if Israel does not retaliate the damage, support, equipment and technology of the Hizzbollah will just keep getting larger and larger and some day Israel will have to strike back anyways just at an even higher cost for the Israeli millitary, for the Lebanese civilian population and also for the Israeli civilian population.

Hell...America could swoop in and save the day from the invading Israelis just like in Kuwait.
You probably were kidding when you said that but if you werent thats the most retarded thing I've heard for a while. First of all, Israel is America's ally. Secondly, America and Israel are fighting the same opponents: America is fighting against terrorism and Israel is fighting against terrorism. And thirdly, if America is still not able to handle the Iraqis how do you expect them to handle the Israelis? Anyway America invading Israel is a dumb topic and has nothing to do with this. Lets leave it at that.

mountain_rage

July 23rd, 2006, 11:32 AM

Ne007 im canadian and most of the media ive seen is supporting lebanon, saying that civilians are being killed accompanied by graphic images of the death and also talking about the inballance of force used. Sadly this is war, if one country is more powerfull then the other they are gonna use that power to lower their own casualties.

Kojerdando your are just twisting the facts to make them sound more devastating. Instead of admitting that their are no mini nukes and poison gas you side step the facts. The fact of the matter is in a small area with a population of 2.1 million, less then a thousand have been reported killed up to now. Thats 0.00047% civilian casualty a fairly low number for a war if you ask me.

Unsueable Davey Brown

July 23rd, 2006, 12:59 PM

This whole Israel/Hezbollah conflict reminds me of when my nephews come over.

You leave them alone in the room together, and you know there's going to be a fight, then the one's going to come in crying over a bloody nose, or something, telling you how Spencer hit him, but you know the little guy with the bloody nose started it, because you heard him do it. You'll never convince him he started it though.

So what do you do. It's beyond my diplomatic abilities. I've resolved to just hope they don't wipe each other out, before they grow out of it.

kokanezub

July 23rd, 2006, 06:01 PM

Israel is not dropping mini nukes and poison gas bombs

the news there said that and they did it in little areas. i bet they didnt tell u about the f16 that was blown up. Or the 9 month who was split in half. all the bodies . u call that an accident over 300 deaths? so u might call the twin tower incident an accident too.

DwarfBaby

July 23rd, 2006, 06:01 PM

Witness the creation of fundamentalisim and anti western sentiment.....

While your statement is mostly accurate (for current affairs) this nonsense has been going on now for 4,000 years. The Bible states that Ishmael tormented his brother Isaac. The two original fathers of the Hebrews and the Arabs. Genesis chapter 16 talks about this and the hatred between Sarah and Hagar their separate mothers. Talk about a family feud.

Keep in mind I am an atheist but often the bible does contain random pieces of knowledge and insight mixed with historical references. And I think it pegged this one right on the nose.

I edited this to add the scriptures I was talking about.

You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery.
He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers

.

kokanezub

July 23rd, 2006, 06:43 PM

and lifehacker you can not tell me anything. i was there 3 days ago im sure im more accurent than the american media. i eye witnessed stuff. we have alot of empty land there with no people. is it impossible to hit that? u must just be blind. any one who thinks this is right is surely crayze. isreal says the war is againt hizbollah(there muslim) then why are christian areas gettin hit 50 miles away from muslim land. isreal just wants the lebonese land. the paris of the middle east.Ne007 has good eyes he sees all.

Unsueable Davey Brown

July 23rd, 2006, 08:47 PM

the news there said that (mini-nukes, and poison gas) and they did it in little areas. i bet they didnt tell u about the f16 that was blown up. Or the 9 month who was split in half .

No they didn't. Was this before, or after the UFO invasion of flying, pink, hemaphrodite death-monkeys.

mountain_rage

July 23rd, 2006, 09:00 PM

whatdahell

July 23rd, 2006, 09:32 PM

lifehacker u're either so misinformed, biased, or intentionally trying to add propaganda/spin to cover/ignore the gross injustice of whats going on there. You're doing your best to make it "look" likes its a justified response by Israel or price of war. Its not, why would they blow up a hospital....with an ICU unit with critically ill that couldnt be evacuated out in time. Why would the UN last week, yesterday and today call this a “human rights violation”. Today UN’s Egeland after touring destruction in Lebanon said “I hadn't believed it would be block by block leveled to the ground," he said. "A disproportionate response by Israel is a violation of international humanitarian law."

Whats the Lebanese death total: nearing 400, with One-Third being Children( from AP)
Whats the Israelis death total: 30. Primarily adults.
Yet all you see on CNN are the picture of destruction in Israel for the most part. Then a 1 second picture of a bombed highway in Lebanon ….a 1sec pic, when 85% of the damage in the way is Lebanon…..does it seem like equal cover on the news??…What about the blocks and blocks of buildings laying in rubble….pictures that remind me of the world trade center….the dozens of building, the dozens of bodies below the rubble….why is not shown here. If we saw these images, there would be No one, No one that would say this was justified, rational or even try to argue it like you’re doing here. Its like those idiots who were arguing that America brought 9/11 on themselves…After seeing the WTC rubble….no one would even dare say or speak such things…not because of fear, but because of the HUGE LOSS of INNOCENT LIVES…..thats whats GOING ON in LEBANON….

So by now you assume I’m arab, I’m not….full blooded American from TX.
If one speaks out against this atrocity then it is assumed I’m Arab or an anti-Semite. If the UN speaks out against this…then we say ah the UN always talking about stupid things. If European media covers this event, its assumed they are biased…??
I know some of this due to first hand word from 1 American and 1 Lebanese doctor stuck there. They send me pictures of the stuff around their hospital and I was shocked. I couldn’t believe this much destruction was really going on.

It is as though arab lives don’t have real value… Its as though just cause its in that part of the world and its arab deaths its ok…. Lebanese are arabs, jews, and Christians…they are some of the smartest, and entrepreneurial people one will come across. The Lebanese are world renowned for their hospitality. Most Lebanese are not fundamentalist (Christian, jew or muslim). Lebanon was called the Paris of the east for a reason.
It’s a shame whats happening to their country, but its an even bigger shame that folks like lifehacker trying to put their SPIN on this to make it look justified… This IS spin. Here you are arguing with kokanezub who JUST CAME BACK from there…and this concurs with what my friends are witnessing…. I’m sorry but , What is your reason for your extreme bias…. Don’t brush the truth to the side with rationalization and intellectualization.
Ok 1, 2 , 10 civilian incidences can be called mistakes, price or war…but when a large number of strikes, kill nearly 400 civilians in TWELVE DAYS of fighting…u have to wonder if whats the real intent. What going is wrong…. No American here would stand for one bit of this was happening to one of us…If Americans really know what was going on there, we wouldn’t stand for this…people would speak out ….No one could ignore the pictures of that devastation…That’s the real reason our media isn’t covering it….

From the AP press 1hr 39min ago: “TYRE, Lebanon - Israeli warplanes hit a convoy of people fleeing their homes in southern Lebanon Sunday, killing three refugees in a minibus and a journalist racing to cover their flight.”

mountain_rage

July 23rd, 2006, 10:07 PM

whatdahell

July 23rd, 2006, 10:28 PM

You probably were kidding when you said that but if you werent thats the most retarded thing I've heard for a while. First of all, Israel is America's ally. Secondly, America and Israel are fighting the same opponents: America is fighting against terrorism and Israel is fighting against terrorism. And thirdly, if America is still not able to handle the Iraqis how do you expect them to handle the Israelis? Anyway America invading Israel is a dumb topic and has nothing to do with this. Lets leave it at that.

Firstly, secondly,blah, blah, blah....More attempts at intellectualization..
do u just watch tv and drop these sound bites on these forums.... Please read, read, and keep reading...

"First"...."First of all, Israel is America's ally"...well then why does this ally keep getting caught with thier hands in our cookie jar...state sponsered espionage(recently if you recall-last9mo's, mid 90's, early 80's, and late 60's) and how about last year.. when Israel get caught selling military equipment(F-16 plans, parts, and Anti missle technology) to China and other countires. US Militray confronted Israel, but they kept doing it on the downlow... Uhmmm Nice Ally....Israel was buying these parts at huge discount from the US military for" its defense", but then behind our backs Israel was actually selling it at premium retial price to China(Whom the US had a military techology band with at the time). Nice ALLY, such a Nice ALLY....again sound bite your picking up on the tube. What about the espionage - the israel mole in the cia and military ranks...Uhmmm again what a nice Ally..
"Secondly, America and Israel are fighting the same opponents:" --If you know history as you claim...Its Israels opponents that have become ours. In the early days Arab countires didnt like us or hate us...Infact the US was seen as a new fair voice in the world that had been over run by the old colonial powers. We had nothing to do with this Israel-Arab conflict unitl very strong Israel political action groups in the US pushed the US to weigh in... this is one of the ways in which we got involved in the region(Besides oil)

Many of the statments that could be heard after 9/11 reflected this....many papers in europe, middle east and asia( regardless of religion) left that the US had been one sided in its Middle East dealings due the strong Israel Plotical action groups lining the doors of Washington. Many of those articles also sited the numerous times the US, by itsef, had vetoed UN human rights violations charge bought against Israel.
The US for its business interest and economy is primarly concered about the oil reserves there. The farmers in Kansas and americas heart land does not give a dam about the middle east conflict, but we keep being pulled in by "our ally". With allys like this we really don't need any enemies.

whatdahell

July 23rd, 2006, 10:58 PM

You cant compare this to what america would do, they wouldnt harbour terrorists. Hezbollah is mostly to blame for this, everyone pointed it out already. Lets say torronto was taken over by terrorists and the canadian government was just like ah i dont feel like getting them out of there. Then those terrorists started bombing new york. Now lets say they were shooting those rockets from heavilly populated areas. Would you expect the us government to not kill civillians in its attempt to route them out? This is the same situation.

see the images of the blocks and blocks of rubble....the bodies below them..looks like a massive earthquake hit and continues to do so EVERYDAY. This war is being talked up like it were a movie or something....something so distant..aseptic.....if you see this you would never say that the US would behave in this way (now). Yeah we've done things behind close doors after 9/11 that were pretty bad, but nothing like this(not recently). We've been accused of things like this in Vietnam, but not recent times. Even Isralel Militray personel, piolts, are protesting against the indiscrimnant bombings the Israel Militray is asking them to do.
Lebanon just got out under the tight military rule of Syria(November 2005), Lebanon doesn't really have a strong government(its still a baby) and its Military is not really anything. The dont have the ability to fight anyone. Hezbollah is like evil unwanted house guest, that once helped Lebanon against Israel(early days of land disputes), then kind off helped Lebanon kick out Syria...now its got its own agenda and wont leave...

For Arguments sake from your example: Yeah there may be a hand full of rednecks from my state of TX that would agree with blowing up a part of Canada to get a few Hezbollah...the ShotGun Blast Approach.....but after the first round of civilian casulities in Canada...there would be 10's of 1000's of Americans on the street protesting/condeming such redneck actions.

bobhss

July 23rd, 2006, 11:26 PM

Common everyone the answer is so obvious Israel shouldnt be allowed to retaliate when 100's of rockets are shot into their country. Its so obvious, they should just let it happen and be like oh those Hezbollahs they crack me up.

I do love some good sarcasm to show the idiocy of things.

In the size of land we are talking about (Israel roughly equal to New Jersey and Lebanon just smaller than Connecticut) there's not a whole lot of room to separate Military targets from Civilian targets. I live in Missouri and my state is way bigger than the entire area (Israel and Lebanon) put together.

whatdahell so should Hezbollah be allowed to kill just as many Israelis people as Israel kills Lebanese people? It's War. Whoever has the most bombs kills more of the opponent. If Hezbollah could get a bigger weapon (read nuke) onto one of their little missles and fired it at Israel would that be justified as a measured response to Israel's attack?

lifehacker

July 24th, 2006, 12:16 AM

the news there said that and they did it in little areas. i bet they didnt tell u about the f16 that was blown up. Or the 9 month who was split in half. all the bodies . u call that an accident over 300 deaths? so u might call the twin tower incident an accident too.
No. Simply no. There were no nukes or poison gas used in this war unless you're watching some absolutely biased news channel that comes up with all kinds of shit. If you watched it or read it somewhere give me the source and I'll believe you. Until you prove this to me I consider it BS.

and lifehacker you can not tell me anything. i was there 3 days ago im sure im more accurent than the american media. i eye witnessed stuff.
Actually no you're not. Reporters from all over the world are there right now not three days ago.. And also if you"re saying that the Israelis are dropping mini nukes and using poison gas in lebanon you're definantly not accurate.

we have alot of empty land there with no people. is it impossible to hit that? u must just be blind.
WTF?! Why the hell would they hit empty land?! The point is to destroy the Hizzbollah not bomb empty land.

any one who thinks this is right is surely crayze. isreal says the war is againt hizbollah(there muslim) then why are christian areas gettin hit 50 miles away from muslim land. isreal just wants the lebonese land. the paris of the middle east.Ne007 has good eyes he sees all.
If Israel wanted the Lebanese land they would have stayed there all the way from 1982. Israel has no interest whatsoever in the Lebanese land. Where did you get this idea?

Whats the Lebanese death total: nearing 400, with One-Third being Children( from AP)
Whats the Israelis death total: 30. Primarily adults.
First of all, according to BBC (I selected BBC specificly because you believe CNN is pro-israeli, BBC is definantly anti-israeli), from an article posted this Sunday there were 271 civilian deaths and in all there were 362 Lebanese deaths (again according to BBC). The Israeli death toll in the meantime is 37.

Yet all you see on CNN are the picture of destruction in Israel for the most part. Lebanon ….a 1sec pic, when 85% of the damage in the way is Lebanon…..does it seem like equal cover on the news?
whatdahell, do you want me to send you my internet browsing history so you can check on it? Im in Germany right now. I watch CNN, BBC and local German news channels to get a clear picture from different perspectives. Then I look up data and info on the internet. I am very well informed of what is happening from all perspectives- both European, American, Israeli and Arab. Keep reading.

So by now you assume I’m arab, I’m not….full blooded American from TX.
If one speaks out against this atrocity then it is assumed I’m Arab or an anti-Semite. If the UN speaks out against this…then we say ah the UN always talking about stupid things. If European media covers this event, its assumed they are biased…??
I know some of this due to first hand word from 1 American and 1 Lebanese doctor stuck there. They send me pictures of the stuff around their hospital and I was shocked. I couldn’t believe this much destruction was really going on.
And you assume Im Israeli? Im Russian. And Im in Germany right now. I lived, not visited but lived in Ukraine, Russia, France, Germany, USA (RI, California, MA). And visited almost every many many other countries. I get the views of many many people, of the huge Turkish population of Germany, of the huge Muslim population in France, of the Russian Orthodox population of Russia and Ukraine and that of the American public. Im well informed of what is currently happening.

Ok 1, 2 , 10 civilian incidences can be called mistakes, price or war…but when a large number of strikes, kill nearly 400 civilians in TWELVE DAYS of fighting…u have to wonder if whats the real intent. What going is wrong…. No American here would stand for one bit of this was happening to one of us…If Americans really know what was going on there, we wouldn’t stand for this…people would speak out ….No one could ignore the pictures of that devastation…That’s the real reason our media isn’t covering it….
You seem to be looking just at this event and not history 400 civilian deaths is still a very small price for a war. What was the cose of WWII? 62 million people. Thats a lot. What was the death toll of WWI? 15 million. What is the cost of Darfur? 181,000 people. What was the cost of the An Lushan Rebellion? 36 million people. Mongol conquests? 30-60 million people. Conquest of Ming China (Manchu)? 25 million people. Taiping rebellion? 20- 50 million people. See this for some more numbers of death tolls in wars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_toll
You can count 400 civilian deaths (even though its less than 400 right now) as barely anything compared to most of the wars up to these days.

lifehacker

July 24th, 2006, 12:33 AM

If you know history as you claim...Its Israels opponents that have become ours. In the early days Arab countires didnt like us or hate us...Infact the US was seen as a new fair voice in the world that had been over run by the old colonial powers. We had nothing to do with this Israel-Arab conflict unitl very strong Israel political action groups in the US pushed the US to weigh in... this is one of the ways in which we got involved in the region(Besides oil)
Great, now all you need to say is that Israel is the cancer of this world. Your opinion here reminds me of the Iranian president. So its Israel's fault too that September 11 occured? And Iraq too?

see the images of the blocks and blocks of rubble....the bodies below them..looks like a massive earthquake hit and continues to do so EVERYDAY.
You want some numbers of earth quake casualties? Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes First Ill read some of them to you: Shaanxi Earthquake- 830,000 people, Ningxia-Gansu, China- 200,000 people, Tsinghai, China- another 200,000 people. Peru- 66,000 people Tangshan earthquake- 262, 000 people. Sumatra earthquake- 283,163 people. This conflict would be a moderate earthquake at most (5-6 on the scale). And you call me misinformed.

kokanezub

July 24th, 2006, 08:21 AM

"WTF?! Why the hell would they hit empty land?! The point is to destroy the Hizzbollah not bomb empty land. "
if they are trying to get hizbollah (the muslim group) then y attack christians and the area with no religion?

just say u support isreal. i dnt hate jews u got to no that jews and isrealies are two different things. there are german jews russians w/e so dnt say i hate jews. open your eyes a little bit everyone knows there is no mercy in war. get hizbollah see if i care just dnt kill those inicent mother fuckers tryin to put bread on the table.
please if you dnt watch something else besides cnn then dnt talk. try al manar the news channle that got hit by isreal. is that an accidenttry al-jazerratry nbntry syria open ur eyes to more than cnn.its like me saying oh its ok for the riaa to arrest us were breaking the law. and then say its ok to be fined the prices they hit us with. or saying the number of ppl dieing in iraq is ok even tho sadam is gone. its ok that the twin towers got hit it was an accident.

Thanks to all who have open eyes. im not telling you to choose a side im just letting u see the inicent die,

looks like some ppl belive the news alot-

like about how they are trying to save the ppl from hurricane katrina
and we are in iraq not for the oil
how we are not being tapped
how we are safe online
we have freedoms and no one can take them

the world isnt a fair place-dont let the media get to u

kokanezub

July 24th, 2006, 09:46 AM

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

go there then see wut u gatta say

lebonan doent have any war plains or boats by the way

Israel's offensive in Lebanon has claimed at least 365 lives, mostly civilians.

Seventeen Israelis have died in rocket attacks since the beginning of the conflict on July 12.

Digital Bliss

July 24th, 2006, 12:03 PM

This conflict has been going on since the dawn of time correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this whole thing about who deserves the so called holy land? If thats the case neither of these countries desrsive it look how they are acting if this land is so holy they should come together and unite not blow eachother up. War is war people die in the land of the blind their are no innocent. Another thing wernt the crusades partically responsible for this whole thing? Please inform me I don't want to go around saying things that may not be true.

DigitalJunkie

July 24th, 2006, 01:51 PM

Whoever says "Life Is Fair", doesn't know what he is taking about!

Lifehacker, expect Lebanese to pull themself out of rotten life. There are Lebanese in the U.S. that has done well, but it's easier said than done! whatdahell, expect international communities to do something about Israelis' war crime against cilvilians in Lebanon. Would Israel have to defend themself for what they done? Not likely, as international communities doesn't care. In modern time, civilians are killed all the time with bombs to save their own soldiers' life! Do you remember, U.S. used of nuclear bombs on Japan in WWII. If you ask why did U.S. dropped the bombs. U.S. will answer with, to end the war more quickly to save lives. However, this does set the example for other countries to follow in wars in same kind of logic!

But, as you get older you'll learn that things changes whether you like or not! For the better or worst, no one knows!

lifehacker

July 24th, 2006, 02:41 PM

if they are trying to get hizbollah (the muslim group) then y attack christians and the area with no religion?
Wow, didnt I just discuss that. There are casualties in every war and innocent lives are always lost. If Hizzbollah continues hiding their members and supporters in crowded areas so that if there are Hizzbollah deaths they bring about with them a civilian death toll, which can be blamed on Israel. Name me a war where there has not been a loss of civilian life.

Ill continue this tommorow, its too late right now.

DwarfBaby

July 24th, 2006, 03:19 PM

I read an article from the London Times a few days ago. Someone made the comment that if Hezbollah and friends had no weapons there would be peace. If Israel had no weapons there would be no Israel. I believe this statement is absolutely accurate. I'm not defending Israel and its many crimes against humanity but they are trying to survive in an area where their neighbors just want them dead.

kokanezub

July 24th, 2006, 06:40 PM

DwarfBaby

July 24th, 2006, 08:04 PM

whatdahell

July 24th, 2006, 09:09 PM

I do love some good sarcasm to show the idiocy of things.

In the size of land we are talking about (Israel roughly equal to New Jersey and Lebanon just smaller than Connecticut) there's not a whole lot of room to separate Military targets from Civilian targets. I live in Missouri and my state is way bigger than the entire area (Israel and Lebanon) put together.

whatdahell so should Hezbollah be allowed to kill just as many Israelis people as Israel kills Lebanese people? It's War. Whoever has the most bombs kills more of the opponent. If Hezbollah could get a bigger weapon (read nuke) onto one of their little missles and fired it at Israel would that be justified as a measured response to Israel's attack?

Look to me Israeli life = arab life = christian life = jHindu life = Jewish life. I may be biased to American deaths...meaning unintentionally I am more affected.....,hearing the deaths and seeing WTC grounds after 9/11 touched me far greater .....I know larger numbers have die else where in the world, but it was personal....its probably cause its easier for ones heart to relate and also due to the proximity( I lived in Brooklyn at the time).

Hezbolla SHOULDN'T be allowed to kill 1 Israeli. Hezbollah is ruthless and kills innocent Israeli civilians....We ALL Agree on this. But the point is that just as Hezbolla is to blame, Israel has a EQUAL Part in this. The point is that Israel is equally responsible - As "first world" country the tactics, and ruthlessness it uses is equal to that of what its opposition.
There is no clear cut beginning to the present fight as some are making here....this didnt start with hezbollah rockets....this are all part of a sequence of events thats been going on and on. Israeli opponents argue that the blowing up of Palestinian government building several weeks ago and an Israeli rockets killed women and children that were walking on a beach(read in a UN report summary). ....so its been back and forth......I know, I know " so its war and this is what happens in war".
But its always made to look like Israel Government is victim in the US media...it Really isnt....(Hamas and Hezobell certainly arent innocent!) Israelis civilians are Victims!, but the actions of its government and military are a violation of EVERY Human Rights document printed.
The Lebanese civilian population ARE Victims also....Lebanese generally are not into fundamentalism.....they had a long drawn out war in there country(80's) and dont want anymore....they wanted to move on...then Syria took control....sayin it was there to protect them...Now that Syria is out....they're getting bombed to no end.... Most Lebanese are moderate.....you'll notice this...I have yet to come across a Lebanese that doesnt like to drink, smoke, and go clubbing all night long....Young and Old Lebanese love to party....and it would be VERY VERY hard to find a Lebanese women covered with that black robe(?) on. In fact most Lebanese women are drop dead gorgeous, and dress like it. Most of the top clubs in DC are owned my Lebanese. Again the point is that they aren't fundamentalist nor do they really want any part of this fight.... Lebanon ISN'T Saudi Arabia or like some other hardcore middle east countries....thats why its a shame....they really had hope after syria left in Nov 2005.... Lebanon has booze, casinos, and a night life equal to Ibiza before the fighting in the 80's.
I agree that this is war and that there will always be causalities, but if one is making the argument that this retaliations (vast indiscriminant destruction&400 Lebanese deaths) is an appropriate reaction by Israel (to the 2 soldiers being kidnapped and rockets fired during the first week)......THEN the US military should have Blown IRAQ to Kingdom come by now.....There hundreds of US soldiers that die cause of the fact that militants are hiding in populated area...Why doesnt the US Military Just Bomb the Craps out of those towns....why do they go door to door lookin for militants, Why cause no would stand for blowing up populated civilian targets(no one here in the US or abroad would agree with this).

As stated earlier:
Witness the creation of fundamentalisim and anti western sentiment.....
Its true.....the kids that are witnessing the deaths of their moms and siblings...these 13days of hezbolla rocket firings and Israeli bombings are leaving a fertile soil for seeds of fundamentalist ideology to take root for the next 50 years. unfortunately this back n forth is gonna be around for a long time.

mountain_rage

July 24th, 2006, 09:11 PM

america messed up in putting isreal in palistine. i agree with u dwarfbaby but look at jordan and egypt bot arab countires. they have a peace treaty with isreal. the truth i just want everything to end as soon as possible i got friends and family there. this needs to end half a million people r homeless now.
Um america didnt put Israel in Palestine, it was a collective decision by the UN to create a jewish state after the 2nd world war. The reason for giving jewish people a place to call their own was to prevent a repeat of ww2, they could now defend themselves when being threatened. The land was to be split half for the arabs and half for jews and Jerusalem was supposed to be shared because it is significant in both religions. Now if you want to get technical the jews were the original owners of the land 3000 years ago and were kicked out by the romans, so theoretically the palestinians were living on the jews land but whatever.

I agree that this is war and that there will always be causalities, but if one is making the argument that this retaliations (vast indiscriminant destruction&400 Lebanese deaths) is an appropriate reaction by Israel (to the 2 soldiers being kidnapped and 4 rockets fired during the first week)......THEN the US military should have Blown IRAQ to Kingdom come by now.....There hundreds of US soldiers that die cause of the fact that militants are hiding in populated area...Why doesnt the US Military Just Bomb the Craps out of those towns....why do they go door to door lookin for militants, Why cause no would stand for blowing up populated civilian targets(no one here in the US or abroad would agree with this).

And the united states did bomb the hell out of iraq before going in with ground troups, they even hit targets such as the red cross if my memory serves me correct. (sorry it was in afganistan the the redcross was bombed)
http://www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s393024.htm

But they did do alot of bombing runs in Iraq before going in, it was on tv just about everyday on live coverage. You could see bombs going off everywhere.They have also killed many civilians while in Iraq and raped some women so I wouldnt sujest comparing the israel lebanon war to the US invasion in iraq. Doesnt help your point.

whatdahell

July 25th, 2006, 12:12 AM

Dam...there you go again. TWISTING the facts, Putting a SPIN on these innocent death(both sides) and attempting to Rationalize it.......U're so good at keeping up your pretentiousness on this forum. Wow such skills in copy n paste from wikipedia.... With such stats, c/p skills, having "lived" is so many countries.... I have to give into your argument. I'm only a poor, inbreed, un-traveled, Texas redneck....yeah you wish....blow your spin and smoke some were else....not gonna work here....try this at your high school debate team.
How FAST can your google up the word Pretentious?

Here is what I said earlier:
"see the images of the blocks and blocks of rubble....the bodies below them..LOOKS LIKE a massive earthquake hit and continues to do so EVERYDAY."

Here is your response or blah, blah, blah....
You want some numbers of earth quake casualties? Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes First Ill read some of them to you: Shaanxi Earthquake- 830,000 people, Ningxia-Gansu, China- 200,000 people, Tsinghai, China- another 200,000 people. Peru- 66,000 people Tangshan earthquake- 262, 000 people. Sumatra earthquake- 283,163 people. This conflict would be a moderate earthquake at most (5-6 on the scale). And you call me misinformed.

First do you READ..... Really do understand what u READ! I said LOOKS LIKE an earthquake...meaning "the appearance of". It was a comparison of numbers! do u speakinze englize(with an accent). You read these statements and come up with your own argument and debate it on and on....like fighting your own shadow...ok before you wikipedia me this analogy cause you didnt get it...here is another one like a dog chasing it own tale...But at least dog knows when to stop. By the way one of my favorite NYTimes columnist said the same after WTC(just for u ...thats the World Trade Center) bombings said "ground zero looked like the remnants of an earthquake"

You seem to be looking just at this event and not history 400 civilian deaths is still a very small price for a war. What was the cose of WWII? 62 million people. Thats a lot. What was the death toll of WWI? 15 million. What is the cost of Darfur? 181,000 people. What was the cost of the An Lushan Rebellion? 36 million people. Mongol conquests? 30-60 million people. Conquest of Ming China (Manchu)? 25 million people. Taiping rebellion? 20- 50 million people. See this for some more numbers of death tolls in wars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_toll
You can count 400 civilian deaths (even though its less than 400 right now) as barely anything compared to most of the wars up to these days.

Again u so good...Great stats.....Ok its not 400 deaths then...its like you say 329...does that make you feel better, does that help you sleep at night....
You said "You seem to be looking just at this event and not history 400 civilian deaths is still a very small price for a war" Listen LifeCracker the nearly 400 deaths may not mean anything to you...it may be a "VERY SMALL NUMBER", but if EVEN ONE of these deaths was from your family or friends you WOULDNT BE ON HERE intellectualizing this. You would be the first one crying your bleeding heart out, about how precious that one life was, just as you are one here delivering the one sided argument....trying your best to appear unbiased and innocent spectator just stating your referenced facts .

whatdahell, do you want me to send you my internet browsing history so you can check on it? Im in Germany right now. I watch CNN, BBC and local German news channels to get a clear picture from different perspectives. Then I look up data and info on the internet. I am very well informed of what is happening from all perspectives- both European, American, Israeli and Arab. Keep reading.

I would encourage reading rather than watching "around your world in 60 seconds". Iif tv then...
I actually prefer german news DW-TV over BBC. So BBC is biased, but CNN isn't right. So as long as it agrees with your view its unbiased. BBC could be biased, but the major European news media outlets tend to have coverage of middle east events that is equal ( if not greater than) than of BBC.
Regarding CNN's bias: Look if I was a blue colored person and if me and large number of my blue friends worked at news organization(with a majority of blue folks)...i would expect the "blue perspective" to come out in stories and coverage rather than anyother group or race. that is human nature. Thats how it is. This is true of CNN( there is a large number that are of Jewish descent). Thats all cool. But just cause the media doesn’t cover it or only covers one side doesn’t mean it right or that lives on the other side are of less value. I'm not sure if there is a large number of Arab or those of Arab descent in BBC. The BBC is pretty much pure upper well to-do proper English (with the occasional Indian International News anchor). I did look into this many yrs back, but I my self didn’t find it. If you find it let me know.

And you assume Im Israeli? Im Russian. And Im in Germany right now. I lived, not visited but lived in Ukraine, Russia, France, Germany, USA (RI, California, MA). And visited almost every many many other countries. I get the views of many many people, of the huge Turkish population of Germany, of the huge Muslim population in France, of the Russian Orthodox population of Russia and Ukraine and that of the American public. Im well informed of what is currently happening.

Look I'm not sure what you are or what you're not, NO do I care, but you do have agenda and you are trying to TWIST/SPIN this towards one side, very TACTFULLY. I have no problem with any group, but I dont like seeing this constant spin put by any strong political group, whether its Israeli, Cuban, or Saudi to influence the US government and then say its in our best interest. There are millions being spent right now to the 2 big Public Relations companies to spin this war to the american public(Just as the Kuwaiti Govt did after they got invaded by Sadam) . There are a lot of Russians of Jewish descent here in the US, esp NY. Two of my closest friend during my stay when I lived in Brooklyn were russian(jewish).
Wow since your beating your chest of how many places your lived....How do I reply to this. What do I say...Well since this is a pathetic attempt to let us know how world renound you are...I'm forced to respond in kind....well I "lived" in not visited Birmingham, UK/ Paris /Gothenburg, Sweden / Ulm, Germany/ Cuidad Bolivar, Venezuela/ St Vincents / toronto / Valancia, Spain / Muskat, Oman / Puerto Rico / Dominica / Goa, India / Shanghai, China / Guadalajara, Mexico/ Antwerpen, Belgium/ US- TX, CA, NY, NJ, FL, IL, KS/.... well thats all I can recall right now....now does this Chest Beating make me more world renowned...more in tune to world opinion...
What you're saying is completely inaccurate(your statment"you get views of many, many people")[World]....outside of the US, opinion of the middle east conflict lays more blame at Israel's feet( no they dont say the arab neighors are innocent or correct). Whether its south america, Germany(were u are now), or China many believed that Israeli was once was the victim, but more Israel tactics and brutality has lead many to think its more a big bully being allowed to do what ever it chooses( due to US silence).

whatdahell

July 25th, 2006, 01:07 AM

first of all, Israel is America's ally. Secondly, America and Israel are fighting the same opponents: America is fighting against terrorism and Israel is fighting against terrorism.

I replied with...

If you know history as you claim...Its Israels opponents that have become ours. In the early days Arab countries didnt like us or hate us...Infact the US was seen as a new fair voice in the world that had been over run by the old colonial powers. We had nothing to do with this Israel-Arab conflict until very strong Israel political action groups in the US pushed the US to weigh in... this is one of the ways in which we got involved in the region(Besides oil)

Great, now all you need to say is that Israel is the cancer of this world. Your opinion here reminds me of the Iranian president. So its Israel's fault too that September 11 occured? And Iraq too?

Wow “cancer of the world”….Um…so I’m an Anti-Semite now ….I was waiting for this..…what a cheap attempt to shade this argument with “type casting” Do your fellow high school classmates fall for this one. Again do your smoke and mirror routine elsewhere. And you act like you have no side...ahhh....
Living in America If one say anything against the US government or its president…its said that its my right my freedom of speech…or one gets called a conservative or liberal. BUT say anything against Israeli methods or disagree with its point of view…and one gets type cast as anti-Semites. How do you say or prove the opposite….just shut up…HELL NO.
Its like those that disagreed with the OJ Simpson verdict(I personally don’t care for it)…were called a racist….how is one say anything to the contrary…”Wait I have black friend” Well I already said I have Jewish friends. One of my favorite fish dishes is jewish. I’m I PC now? The point is this, attempt to type cast and label so that you can get people to shut up is only gonna work for so long. If you don’t believe that one of the strongest lobbying groups in DC is Israeli/Jewish League go google it! Better yet if your so well traveled trek down to DC a attend a few functions( many open to students)

This will be my last statment..and I'll be out of here...I just couldnt let you get way with this crap of putting your mtv sound bites and spin on here. Both sides have deaths, the lives on both side are of equal value, both side have guilty parties, hezobella is attacking innocent Israeli civilians, but so is Israeli army, don’t get on there trying to spin this like Israel is the innocent party. And the retaliations is not justified response by this first world nation belonging to larger community of civilized nations.

And the united states did bomb the hell out of iraq before going in with ground troups, they even hit targets such as the red cross if my memory serves me correct. (sorry it was in afganistan the the redcross was bombed)
http://www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s393024.htm

But they did do alot of bombing runs in Iraq before going in, it was on tv just about everyday on live coverage. You could see bombs going off everywhere.They have also killed many civilians while in Iraq and raped some women so I wouldnt sujest comparing the israel lebanon war to the US invasion in iraq. Doesnt help your point.

Yes, mountain_rage US did bomb Iraq and Afghanistan…..the bombing was strategic(or so claimed)...but it was nothing like this…not blocks and blocks of civilian housing. My point in that statement mountain_rage was that with the current number of US soldiers dead, the escalating US causalities everyday(I know Iraqi’s have far greater), the suicide bombers, and roadside bombs….then the US should now have earned enough ”rights” to Carpet Bomb or Nuke All of Iraq( this is based on the argument, that this is war and those with bigger weapons can do as they choose if provoked).

Peace to Israel’s, Arabs, and Persian. All this fighting over “holy land and religion…all in the name of god….what god wants this… I’m out of here.

whatdahell

July 25th, 2006, 01:25 AM

Here is interesting article: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5186012.html
Hey LifeCracker...I can cut n paste too. Not as good as u, but catchin up....

"Google caught in anti-Semitism flap"
Search site Google has been drawn into a controversy during the week of Passover over a search listing that directs viewers to an anti-Semitic site when they enter the keyword "Jew."

The dispute began several weeks ago, when Steven Weinstock, a New York real estate investor and former yeshiva student, did a Google search on "Jew." The first site returned was Jew Watch, a site filled with short articles focusing on alleged Jewish conspiracies and other anti-Semitic topics, with headings such as "Jewish Controlled Press" and "Jewish Mind Control Mechanisms." The administrator of Jew Watch did not respond to an e-mail message requesting comment.

Weinstock has launched an online petition, asking Google to remove the site from its index. He said if Google receives 50,000 requests to remove the site, it will comply. As of late Tuesday, the petition had about 2,800 signatures.

"Google is the No. 1 search site, and the fact that the first search result would yield an anti-Semitic site is all too common in a growing era of increased anti-Semitism," he wrote in his introduction to the petition.

The petition site appeared to have been hacked on Wednesday, however. Clicking on links to view or sign the petition brought up pages with pornographic images, plus the message, "This guestbook is for The most LAMEST petition ever."

Google spokesman David Krane said the company's search results are determined by a complex set of algorithms that measure factors such as how many sites link to a given page. The company can't and won't change the ranking for Jew Watch, regardless of how many signatures the petition attracts, he said.

"Google's search results are solely determined by computer algorithms that essentially reflect the popular opinion of the Web," he said. "Our search results are not manipulated by hand. We're not able to make any manual changes to the results."

Krane said the ranking for Jew Watch is largely based on changing vocabulary patterns. "Jew" has been used less and less in mainstream society since Word War II, replaced by less culturally loaded terms such as "Jewish person." Google searches for "Jewish," "Jewish person" and "Jewish people" are all topped by pro-Jewish sites, including a number of Jewish dating services.

That's still not good enough for another online organization, however, which has launched its own effort to push Jew Watch off Google via "Google bombing," a technique that exploits Google's search methodology of basing rankings on how many sites link to a given page. Daniel Sieradski, through his influential Web log Jewschool, is urging visitors to pepper any sites they control with links to the entry on "Jew" in online encyclopedia Wikipedia.

Numerous other Google-bombing campaigns, ranging from pranks to a serious attempt to raise awareness of slain Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, have emerged, since Google began dominating the search market.

Krane said he wasn't familiar with the Jewschool campaign but that Google typically discourages such tactics to manipulate search results.

kerjodando

July 25th, 2006, 10:28 PM

Israeli bomb kills UN observers

Four United Nations observers have been killed in an Israeli air strike on an observation post in south Lebanon.

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said he was "shocked" at the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the post.

Israel has expressed "deep regret".

see Israeli bomb kills UN observers on BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5215366.stm)

origin

July 26th, 2006, 01:00 AM

all this is pointless isreal is power hungry hezbollah is fighting a battle/undeclared war that they know there is no concievable way to win. i sit back in amazment how long this will go on without becoming a actual war breaking out in the middle east and the real middle east crisis from years ago will re awaken. deeply saddening but true.

l8

Christoph

July 26th, 2006, 02:11 AM

God bless them!Its unbelivebal!
Thats why WAR IS NEVER GOOD!And there are always other ways to go!

kerjodando

July 26th, 2006, 12:48 PM

Israel is not trying to intentionally hurt civilians. If Hizzbollah hides its rocket supplies, has its offices and many of its people in the middle of Beirut its almost impossible to take out the Hizzbollah without hurting the population. If the Hizzbollah really cared that much about the Lebanese people they would move out to prevent more civilian casualties. Instead they hide behind the Lebanse population waiting for media to support their cause and heavily critisize Israel because of civilian casualties.

Example of Israel war crimes lifehacker that you will not see on US news:

Israel troops 'ignored' UN plea

UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.

The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling, diplomats familiar with the probe say.

The UN report says each time the UN contacted Israeli forces, they were assured the firing would stop.

A senior Irish soldier working for the UN forces had warned the Israelis six times that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff, Ireland's foreign ministry said.

Had Israel responded to the requests, "rather than deliberately ignoring them", the observers would still be alive, a diplomat familiar with the report said.

It has rejected accusations made by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan that the targeting of the UN position was "apparently deliberate".

From BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5217176.stm)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_conflict_in_lebanon/img/6.jpg

Hooah

July 26th, 2006, 12:59 PM

Terrorists do not target civilians either...
And how can you tell the difference between the "innocent" civilian and the terrorist? If a "innocent" civilian harbors a terrorists, are they the same? When a terrorist throws down their weapons, are they magically civilians again?

DigitalJunkie

July 26th, 2006, 01:15 PM

The point is bombing kills anyone, firing them is same as you don't care! "Guns don't kill, people do", doesn't it?

Jared Moya

July 26th, 2006, 04:08 PM

Example of Israel war crimes lifehacker that you will not see on US news:
]

I agree with u that the killings on both sides are shameful and so seemingly unnecessary, but I thinks it funny how groups like Hezbollah FROM BEFORE A SINGLE SHOT IS FIRED have already committed war crimes by quartering it's "troops" amidst civilians. And again they fire almost exclusively on civilians. Wheres the outrage at them? Is the UN trying to stop them? Hell no. What's the UN doing there in the first place? Its a frickin war zone, did nobody tell them? Figures the UN wouldnt have a clue about anything going on on the gorund.

The UN and everywhere else, in a long tradition of anti-semitism could give 2 shits about the Israelis. They ALWAYS side with the TERROR groups and never those that fight terror. The US is another perfect example.

If your Black or a Jew you better forget about the UN watching your back. Look at Africa (read Rwanda, Darfur, Sudan, Somalia, etc, etc) as another example of the UN taking a so-called stand against terror. And the biggest F U move on the UN's part is that for anything to get done, the real guys and gals who have to go into frickin timbuktu to take care of John Q Asshole is the gold ol' U. S of A and we'll still get shit for it as being the "world's policeman."

I wish what we could really do is move Jerusalem brick by brick to like Canada (our crazy cousin) and then build a big ass wall around us both and tell the whole world to eat shit and take care of themselves for a change. Let them all cut and shoot each other to smithereens while we relax and get fat... :) I dont know, thats my 2 cents.

mfgbypooter

July 26th, 2006, 04:25 PM

Example of Israel war crimes lifehacker that you will not see on US news:Seems funny how I saw that same shit on US news but lifehacker won't.

*

mountain_rage

July 26th, 2006, 05:49 PM

So Israel had some friendly fire misshaps, so did the united states, but it never raised much of a stink, I dont think the president ever even appologised for the mishap.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/

Jared Moya

July 26th, 2006, 07:00 PM

Heres about the recent death of those 4 UN observers.

UN officials said Hezbollah guerillas had been operating in the area of the post near the eastern end of the border with Israel, a routine tactic to prevent Israel from attacking them.

We did repeatedly in recent days say (to Israel) that this was an exposed position, that Hezbollah militants were 500 meters (yards) away shielding themselves near UN workers and civilians," UN humanitarian chief Jan Egeland said. "That's why it is so inexplicable that what happened happened.

And what they are really doing by shelling important targets in Lebanon, ie infrastructure such as the INT airport etc., is to make it so unpalatable for the Lebanese to go about their daily business that they will finally get rid of Hezbollah in the South.

Its like this, you cant have an armed force ruling the Southern part of your country and attacking other nations and not expect any repercussions. Itd be like the Minutemen or something here attacking Mexico and the rest of us going "Why did uh Mexico attack us?" Duh.

If the Lebanes dont like whats happening THEN GET RID OF HEZBOLLAH! Case closed and Israel wouldnt have a leg to stand on to justify its incursion into Lebanon. Think about it. I love how these people trip out when Israel defends itself because every time they give them a reason to in the first place. If you want to be as peaceful and as intelligent as the holy Quran demands of its folowers than a take a page from Ghandi's manifesto. HE BEAT THE BRITISH EMPIRE WITHOUT LIFTING A FINGER IN VIOLENCE.

If the Palestinians, Hezbollah, whoever is truly tired of Israel's attacks and incursions THEN QUIT ATTACKING IT, pure and simple. Its been under constant attack from its conecption in th 40's and its obvious why. If they lose once they're done, finished, exterminated. Think the world will care about the jews? Hell no, just as they dont care now.

If the Palestinians, Hezbollah, again whoever, were really smart, which they're not in my opinion, theyd focus on building schools, infrastructure, etc and not on weaopons and missiles. Hezbollah does this to an extant, what with clinics, schools, etc., but think if ALL THEIR EFFORTS were spent on the betterment of their people.

The main point here is that Hezbollah attacked Israel and captured 2 soldiers. They basically gave Israle carte blanche to go in and get rid of them. If they hadnt done this Lebanon would be fine, and it strikes as totally ignorant why Lebanese people just dont get it. You cant have an army in your country attacking somebody else and not expect to be held accountable for it. Thye say "well they are good because they got rid of Israel in 2007". Thtas even umber, as the only reason Israel was there in the first place was because of, once again, Hezbollah.

Oh, and dont forget who killed 241 of our Marines trying to help the Lebanese out in 1984. Yep, you guessed it, Hezbollah. So I say F U Hezbollah, and u reap what u sow.

DigitalJunkie

July 26th, 2006, 11:12 PM

kerjodando

July 26th, 2006, 11:30 PM

Sorry, soulxtc! But, I don't care for Israelis tactics either! If Israelis publically announce that Lebanese are the real victims & Israel will help them now & in the future. Then, maybe I'll think Israelis was not bombing Lebanese civilians just for defending Israel! Sympathy for Israelis? I don't have it right now.

I agree with you DigitalJunkie I do not care for the Isreali or Hizbullah tactics but Israel is the civilised country. So like I would from the US I expect more.

NOT THIS - Israels Attrocities to pay for those done to it (this barbarism to combat barbarism!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP2cuAPG_3g)

OR THIS

Israel does not blame all Lebonese but kills or Lenonese then tries to blame fate or says it has no choice. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJJm7B6AKuc)

Israel wants to join the EU. What a joke that is - they have invaded and occupy their neighbours territory. Also, they have and are still bombing refugee camps in Gaza.

I am planning to go to Israel next year, as two of my friends are Jews (i.e. from Russia converted to Judaism to get a passport and some free land). The guy drinks like a fish and neither care about religon. So I hope the war is over by then. I don't mind the threat of terrorist attack as we are use to it already in London.

Note: In UK we take the civilised route. We did not relaliate for 7/7. We talked and things got better.

Note: We also talked to the IRA - the current education minister in Ireland is a former IRA terrorist responsible for killing many UK citizens in indisciminate bombings.

And now for that small story.

Israel is attacking schools and killing children. And yes they did know it was a school and it was targeted. You see it was a Hizbullah school with Hizbullah children.

Who said children are innocent.

Two Israeli missiles last night struck a seven-storey building in the centre of Tyre injuring 12 people, including six children, hospital officials said.

The building was used as a Hizbullah community centre and included a school.

In Gaza, Israeli forces killed 21 Palestinians, including three children.

From the UK Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1831110,00.html)a serious national newspaper.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_conflict_in_lebanon/img/9.jpg

bobhss

July 27th, 2006, 12:06 AM

And now for that small story.

Israel is attacking schools and killing children. And yes they did know it was a school and it was targeted. You see it was a Hizbullah school with Hizbullah children.

Who said children are innocent.

Form the UK Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1831110,00.html)a serious national newspaper.

Here's the same story only a little different:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Mideast_Fighting_Tyre_Attack.html

TYRE, Lebanon -- Israeli warplanes destroyed an empty building containing the offices of Hezbollah's south Lebanon commander in this southern port city Wednesday, and 12 people in a nearby structure were wounded...

The target was seven-story building housing the office of Sheik Nabil Kaouk, the Hezbollah commander in south Lebanon.

Why do the two stories seem so different? I'd say bias in UK media against Israel, but that'd just be a guess.

Jared Moya

July 27th, 2006, 12:16 AM

isreal just wants the lebonese land. the paris of the middle east.Ne007 has good eyes he sees all.

Israel wants Lebanon? C'mon KB, tell me you donr belive that. If so, this is a perfetc example of the insane hysteria that plagues the Middle East mindest, they can no longer tell fact from fiction because theyve made up so many lies about Jews that they cant tell the difference anymore

The bottom line is that Lebanon has reaped what is has sowed. Thats right Lebanon has gotten what it deserves, I said it.

WHy is this? Because they have allowed an INDEPENDENT ARMY, Hezbollah to exist in S Lebanon and act however it pleases. So, considering things were OK until this ARMY decided to attack Israel, yes they attacked first, its no wonder things are no longer ok. If your country attacks another you better expect to be attacked in return.

The PM of Lebanon has said well "Hezbollah is ok because they kicked Israel out of S Lebanon the first time." What they dont tell youis that Israel was there only because it got tired of Hezbollah attacking all the tim. Hmmm, deja-vu allover again right?

Israel's strategy, and rightly so, is to make the people of Lebanon realize that they do have an army on their southern border that keeps attacking others WITHOUT PERMISSION of the Lebanese Govt. You cant hav your cake and eat it too.

You cant say, "well its cool if they are there so long as they attack Israle and leave us alone," as long as they are ON YOUR TERRITORY your are responsible for their conduct. And by basically blockading the country their making the Lebanes make a choice, war or peace, but Hezbollah must lay down its arms and the Lebanes have to take responsibility for its country.

As far as bombing this neighborhood or that neighborhood, well tough shit. Tell Hezbollah to quit behaving like little girls and hiding behind women and children. THATS A TRUE WAR CRIME in fact. Its illegal to hide men and arms amidst a civilian population.

It pains me that the people of Lebanon just dont get it, that if somebody attacks another country from your soil and you give him sanctuary your hands are just as dirty. Dont trip out when they pursue them and bring the conflict to your doorstep. Their only there because you allowed the ones who started it to live there in the first place.

As usual, Jews never get a break. Im just glad they dont listen to anybody what to what they think and feel to be right.

The Jews want Lebanon? Give me a breaik, and maybe pass the joint your smoking I guess. Just like a "greedy Jew" to want everything right? Man, I m glad I aint Jewish. Dont think I could put up with all the bullshit and keep my sanity.

Here's the same story only a little different:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Mideast_Fighting_Tyre_Attack.html

Why do the two stories seem so different? I'd say bias in UK media against Israel, but that'd just be a guess.

You couldnt have made my point any better.

Whats retarded too is that everybody's crying for Israeli restraint. What the helldoes that mean? Do diddly squat and just let people attack them all the time? Do like the UN does and just let shit go down without a care in the world? When 500,000 were chopped to bits with machetes in Rwanda where was the UN? Nobody said a word really, but I bet if the aggressors had been Jews instead of blacks people wouldve tripped. Unless Jews were being killed, then it wouldve been "game on" again.

ADVICE TO LEBANON: Want to return to a normal life? Get rid of the idiots in the south muckin things up for you and dragging your country into a war you cant stomach nor desire. Until the, forget cappucino afternoons on the waterfront.

lifehacker

July 27th, 2006, 02:37 AM

please if you dnt watch something else besides cnn then dnt talk. try al manar the news channle that got hit by isreal. is that an accidenttry al-jazerratry nbntry syria open ur eyes to more than cnn.
and

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
go there then see wut u gatta say
You say that CNN is biased yet you watch Aljazeera and expect to get the real picture. Aljazeera is an arab news channel and very strongly biased when it comes to the Israeli conflicts. Same with al-manar. Try a news channel in a non- muslim country like Germany. They have good news. If all you watch is arab news channels, you should be the one not talking.

america messed up in putting isreal in palistine. i agree with u dwarfbaby but look at jordan and egypt bot arab countires. they have a peace treaty with isreal. the truth i just want everything to end as soon as possible i got friends and family there. this needs to end half a million people r homeless now.
Israel was not placed into that area by America but by an international descision in the UN after WWII after a 2/3s pro Israeli vote was achieved. And where would you place Israel. Arab leaders at that time proposed Madagascar. Iran's president believes it should be a part of Germany. Yet Israel has no interest in any of those two places. Just like for the Muslims, to them Jerusalem and the land Israel is holy. And when it comes to the "Who was there first conflict" it were Jews that inhabited the land 3000 years ago.

God bless them!Its unbelivebal!
Thats why WAR IS NEVER GOOD!And there are always other ways to go!
Thats not true, there are conflicts such as many of the middle eastern ones that can not be resolved diplomaticly. A cease fire can be achieved but sooner or later the same probelm will reappear. Not everything can be solved with diplomacy.

Example of Israel war crimes lifehacker that you will not see on US news:
kerjodando, I suggest you watch some news other than BBC. You state that you will not see some things on US news that you will see on BBC but on BBC you dont see some things you see on CNN. I watch both and I suggest you do the same instead of only getting BBC's point of view on the conflict.

Here's the same story only a little different:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...re_Attack.html

TYRE, Lebanon -- Israeli warplanes destroyed an empty building containing the offices of Hezbollah's south Lebanon commander in this southern port city Wednesday, and 12 people in a nearby structure were wounded...

The target was seven-story building housing the office of Sheik Nabil Kaouk, the Hezbollah commander in south Lebanon.

Why do the two stories seem so different? I'd say bias in UK media against Israel, but that'd just be a guess.
Thank you for pointing that out bobhss. kerjodando, I highly suggest that you read and watch other news than BBC before you decide to comment on middle eastern conflicts.

What the Lebanese government needs to understand is that if they dont want to get bombed, they need to understand that they are supposed to be responsible for what happens on their land and if there is a terrorist orgnization in Lebanon it is their obligation to handle it. If Lebanon is unable to do this and control their own land, somedody else will.

Back to the bombings and innocent civilian deaths: Hizbollah hides behind the population exactly so that people and news channels will support critize Israel for "innocent unneeded civilian casualties." If the Hizbollah would have the balls to stand up and fight Israel like they swear they are doing and will do there would be almost no civilian casualties. This is war. There has been no war in the history of mankind without civilian casualties. Israel needs to show Hizbollah that it will not accept any aggression or attack without retaliation and that everybody who decides to fuck with Israel will pay the price.

Christoph

July 27th, 2006, 04:31 AM

and

You say that CNN is biased yet you watch Aljazeera and expect to get the real picture. Aljazeera is an arab news channel and very strongly biased when it comes to the Israeli conflicts. Same with al-manar. Try a news channel in a non- muslim country like Germany. They have good news. If all you watch is arab news channels, you should be the one not talking.

I recoment N-TV:
http://www.n-tv.de
http://www.n-tv.de/61215.html (Live-Stream)
EuroNews:
http://www.euronews.net/ (on the left site you can stream it, the stream can be choosen in 5 languages
N24:
http://www.N24.de
www.n24.de/tv/streaming/ (Live-Stream)

Jared Moya

July 27th, 2006, 08:29 AM

TEHRAN (Reuters) - A group of hardline Iranian students left for Lebanon on Wednesday pledging to help Hizbollah fight Israeli forces there, witnesses said.

Iranian hardliners have made great public show of recruiting volunteers for "martyrdom-seeking operations" in recent years, but there is no record of any of these Iranian volunteers taking part in attacks in Iraq, or against Israel.

"The Prophet Mohammad's army is on its way to fight against the Zionists," chanted some 50 volunteers at Tehran's Behesht-e Zahra cemetery, where a large tree-lined area is dedicated to Iran's "martyrs" killed in the 1980-88 war with Iraq.

"A group of 200 volunteer students will be dispatched to Lebanon via Turkey. We are leaving Tehran today by bus," Amir Jalili, a spokesman for the group, told Reuters.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/26072006/325/iranian-hardline-students-leave-fight-israel.html

Hmm, yah Iran's not involved.

kerjodando

July 27th, 2006, 08:33 AM

Jared Moya

July 27th, 2006, 08:46 AM

WOW students - NOW that is really scarey LOL :)

Uh, 19 - 23 year olds with guns.....who do you think fights the wars in this world? Thats the age group my friend.Shit, I joined the military when I was 17.

With those idiots doesnt take a genius to starp sto strap a few grenades on your chest, pull the pin, and slam into something :"Jewish."

BTW....read this.......and just hope u dont live in Spain.

Al-Qaida deputy calls for worldwide war on Israel Agencies
Thursday July 27, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

Osama bin Laden's deputy issued a worldwide call today for Muslims to rise up in holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza, until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,,1831648,00.html?gusrc=rss

Keep thinking all these guys aren't nuts.

kerjodando

July 27th, 2006, 08:53 AM

Uh, 19 - 23 year olds with guns.....who do you think fights the wars in this world? Thats the age group my friend.Shit, I joined the military when I was 17.

With those idiots doesnt take a genius to starp sto strap a few grenades on your chest, pull the pin, and slam into something :"Jewish."

BTW....read this.......and just hope u dont live in Spain.

Al-Qaida deputy calls for worldwide war on Israel Agencies
Thursday July 27, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

Osama bin Laden's deputy issued a worldwide call today for Muslims to rise up in holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza, until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,,1831648,00.html?gusrc=rss

Some of my best friends are muslim (goes to mosque on Fridays).

I also have Jewish friends (goes to synagogue on Fridays). That's how come I'm going to Israel.

I live in Hackney in London (don't go to church on Sundays but do eat pork :0 ).

They are just normal people like you.

Who cares what Al Qaida says - NO ONE IS LISTENING except you.

It's all bull shit.

People are people.

Muslims don't listen to that crap I suggest you don't either.

It is scare mungering.

Careless talk / defeatest talk cost lives. LOL :)

All these guys - some of them are my friends - muslim or Jewish they are people. Belonging to / believing in a religion does not make you NUTS!

mfgbypooter

July 27th, 2006, 09:13 AM

I Thank God every day for not allowing me to believe in a religion.

"There, except for the Grace of God, go I"

*

Jared Moya

July 27th, 2006, 09:16 AM

Some of my best friends are muslim.

All these guys - some of them are my friends - muslim or Jewish they are people. Belonging / believing in a religion does not make you NUTS!

You know this reminds me of that line that "Some of my best friends are black." I think when u keep track of them mentally based on such characteristics something's wrong. I couldn't tell u the religion of half my friends.

[b]

Who cares what Al Qaida says - NO ONE IS LISTENING except you.

!

C'mon, now, I doubt AL-Qaeda's making all those tapes just for lil' ol' me. Are ALL muslims listening? Of course not. Just like not everybody listens to that retard Pat Robertson. Do a lot of people though? Of course they do. Don't fool yourself, Al-Qaeda has a lot of followers and to hear that they envision a Spain to Iraq Muslim theocracy speaks volumes about their ultimate goals.

Wheres Saladin when u need him?

Christoph

July 27th, 2006, 10:31 AM

@Lifehacker:The solution is to kill civilians?War will always kill innocent people.America showed how terrible it can be and germany showed it in past....fuck we should stop war.

Jared Moya

July 27th, 2006, 10:44 AM

@Lifehacker:The solution is to kill civilians?War will always kill innocent people.America showed how terrible it can be and germany showed it in past....fuck we should stop war.

Of course it aint, but when Hezbollah hides behind them like little pussies you try to do the best u can. Of course war sucks, maybe somebody should try to tell Hezbollah to knock the shit off and stop attacking Israel in the first place. Dont forget, HEZBOLLAH ATTACKED FIRST, and the last time I checked they are the ones firing rockets EXCLUSIVELY AT CIVILIANS INDISCRIMINATELY. So u tell me who the bigger jerk is.

Stop war? Of course, now if only it was so easy. Tell the arab countries and terror groups they finance to stop attacking ISrale and then the war would be over. Remember too, that most arab countries still dont recognize Israle and are committed to its complete and total destruction.

What are they supposed to do? Be a big wimp and let themselves be attacked all the time and not do diddly-squat? I wish I was a Jew Id lend a hand.

Lets not forget to about all the crazy shit these guys make up about the Jews, that they drink the blood of children, the Elders of ZIon BS, that they hate Muslims, etc, etc. Maybe somebody should tell them about all the Muslims that live in Israel proper and in fact are members of the Israeli Knesset (Parliament). Too bad reason's a one-sided coin these days.

In the end, u want a ceasefire Lebanon? Tell Hezbollah to disarm and give back the soldiers they KIDNAPPED. Case closed. Until then, enjoy life indoors just like Northern Israel thanks to good ol' Hezbollah, those crazy rootin-tootin rocket-firin' cowboys. Yeehaw!

lifehacker

July 27th, 2006, 01:23 PM

I also have Jewish friends (goes to synagogue on Fridays). That's how come I'm going to Israel.
Ugh, Jews got to synagogue on saturdays...:icon_rr:

Who cares what Al Qaida says - NO ONE IS LISTENING except you.
It's all bull shit.
The Americans didnt listen to it, and look what happened on Sep. 11. I agree that most of it is empty talk, but sometimes they do mean it.

All these guys - some of them are my friends - muslim or Jewish they are people. Belonging to / believing in a religion does not make you NUTS!
Finally something we both agree. :icon_comp There are people in all religions that say stupid things yet that does not mean that all members of that religion believe in what one fanatic said and support him/her.

@Lifehacker:The solution is to kill civilians?War will always kill innocent people.America showed how terrible it can be and germany showed it in past....fuck we should stop war.
Killing civilians only causes harm, we all understand that. Yet if the Hizzbollah hides behind these civilians what do you expect Israel to do? If Hizzbollah places its fighters, weapons and rockets in appartment buildings in the crowded areas of Beirut particularly for the reason of causing as many Lebanese civilian casualties as possible, what do you do? Do you sit back and let Hizzbollah rain down rockets, and kidnapp Israeli soldiers? The outcome of not doing anything would be disastrous for Israel. Not only will attacks continue but Israel's lack of retaliation will inspire others and there will be a major escalation of attacks. Israel has to retaliate to show that any attack against the state will not be left unpunished.

This war will not end from a cease fire. The war might end temporarily if Hizzbollah is destroyed and might not occur ever again at all if Lebanese government troops are in control of their territories but the wider conflict will still not end here, It can not and will not end until the anti-Israeli propoganda used in almost every Arab state will stop. If governments in Syria, Iran and other countries stop supporting anti-Israeli propoganda it will stop the reckless hate many citizens feel for Israel. The lack of understanding each other is much needed in this conflict and until anti-Israeli propoganda is stopped it can not be achieved.

Jared Moya

July 27th, 2006, 01:47 PM

Dude, I found the funnist picture that sums up this thread beautfiully.....(or oddly ugly :P)
(Jared's my first name BTW)

http://www.secularstudents.org/files/agree.jpg

Canadian wrote of militia's presence, 'necessity' of bombing

Joel Kom, with files from Steven Edwards, CanWest News Service, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Thursday, July 27, 2006

The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "shield" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.

Those words, written in an e-mail dated just nine days ago, offer a possible explanation as to why the post -- which according to UN officials was clearly marked and known to Israeli forces -- was hit by Israel on Tuesday night, said retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie yesterday.

The strike hit the UN observation post in the southern Lebanese village of El Khiam, killing Canadian Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener and three others serving as unarmed UN military observers in the area.

Just last week, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener wrote an e-mail about his experiences after nine months in the area, words Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie said are an obvious allusion to Hezbollah tactics.

"What I can tell you is this," he wrote in an e-mail to CTV dated July 18. "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both (Israeli) artillery and aerial bombing.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50

Unsueable Davey Brown

July 27th, 2006, 04:37 PM

I'd like to quote this little bit from the article also. It says a lot about why there's so many civilian casualties.

That would mean Hezbollah was purposely setting up near the UN post, he added. It's a tactic Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie, who was the first UN commander in Sarajevo during the Bosnia civil war, said he's seen in past international missions: Aside from UN posts, fighters would set up near hospitals, mosques and orphanages.

DwarfBaby

July 27th, 2006, 04:45 PM

Yes, that's what they do. And that's why they're terrorists not freedom fighters.

Jared Moya

July 27th, 2006, 04:55 PM

Yes, that's what they do. And that's why they're terrorists not freedom fighters.

Godammit I love it when people see both sides instead of just Israel bashing all the time. Dont see Hezbollah dropping leaflets.

mfgbypooter

July 27th, 2006, 05:36 PM

http://www.secularstudents.org/files/agree.jpg

These two look like they want you to be the meat in their Jared sandwich.

*

DigitalJunkie

July 27th, 2006, 05:40 PM

Jared Moya

July 27th, 2006, 05:45 PM

I was not taking any side! I don't care for Hezbollah, if Lebanon gov. are strong enough to defend their own people. Then, they should tell Hezbollah to go away! What I didn't like about Israel's tactics, is instead going into Lebanon, they bomb the shit out civilians as well without sympathy or a helping hand. No wonder, people in middle east don't like Israel as neighbor. You want to stop the cycle of violence, try different strategie(s) is may be better than using force as only option! I guess, they been fighting for so long. None of them can see, what they been doing are not working. Period!

The reason why civilians are gttin gcaught in the crossfire is because Hezbollah puts troops, arms, and weapons near schhols, mosques, hospitals, and residentail neighborhood beacsue they think Israel wiil be a wimp like the United States is and not go after them. If Hezbollah really cared about civilians theyd stop using them as shields.

Unsueable Davey Brown

July 27th, 2006, 06:36 PM

I if Lebanon gov. are strong enough to defend their own people. Then, they should tell Hezbollah to go away!!

That's the problem though, isn't it. They're not strong enough, or even if they are, they still don't. So if you're Israel, and Hezbollah is arming the border, sending rockets into your country, and abducting your soldiers who are guarding your side of the border, what do you do?

Even if you want to negotiate. Who do you negotiate with? Hezbollah? Hezbollah only wants one thing from you. It wants you to die.

DwarfBaby

July 27th, 2006, 06:53 PM

That's the problem though, isn't it. They're not strong enough, or even if they are, they still don't. So if you're Israel, and Hezbollah is arming the border, sending rockets into your country, and abducting your soldiers who are guarding your side of the border, what do you do?

Your right,

Syria just took its forces out of Lebanon last year and only because of world pressure and Lebanese protesters not because Lebanon had any real army to force them out. I do not believe Lebanon's fragile Government deserves blame for this mess as their chief objective was to form a stable society not battle gorillas bent on Israel’s destruction. Even now Lebanon's Government continues to criticize Syria and Iran as the original trigger to their current suffering by their continued support of Hezbollah. Although obviously they have no love for Israel either.

kokanezub

July 27th, 2006, 07:06 PM

If the Lebanes dont like whats happening THEN GET RID OF HEZBOLLAH!
let me tell u about lebanon. our army is weaker than detroit police. hezbollah are like a gang they have nothing to do with the government. so its kinda hard. thats y israel shouldn't be going all out on civilians it should get hezbollah alone.

also hezib would rather give their kids up before their weapons

DwarfBaby

July 27th, 2006, 07:16 PM

let me tell u about lebanon. our army is weaker than detroit police. hezbollah are like a gang they have nothing to do with the government. so its kinda hard. thats y israel shouldn't be going all out on civilians it should get hezbollah alone.

also hezib would rather give their kids up before their weapons

I agree a strong Lebanese Government would have been a better solution. But what do you think the Brit's would do if Irish terrorists started firing rockets at Liverpool or Manchester?

mountain_rage

July 27th, 2006, 08:52 PM

I think I figured out why there is so much hate and war in the middle east its freeking hot out there all the time. Ever notice how bad it gets in your city during a heatwave.

bobhss

July 27th, 2006, 09:20 PM

thats y israel shouldn't be going all out on civilians it should get hezbollah alone.

How do you get Hezbollah alone when they live right next door to the civilian? I can't shoot a missle at them because the blast will kill the civilian too? So I need to drop commandos in and have them kill only the Hezbollah in the house next door and not touch the civilians next to them?

I guess I'm saying the previous posts gave some insight on why it's hard to go after Hezbollah alone, they put their fighters/weapons next to civilian locations. If I'm Israel and want to attack the Hezbollah who are firing rockets at me then I'm going to send a bomb/missle and not my troops. In that way War is sloppy.

DwarfBaby

July 27th, 2006, 09:52 PM

How do you get Hezbollah alone when they live right next door to the civilian? I can't shoot a missle at them because the blast will kill the civilian too? So I need to drop commandos in and have them kill only the Hezbollah in the house next door and not touch the civilians next to them?

I guess I'm saying the previous posts gave some insight on why it's hard to go after Hezbollah alone, they put their fighters/weapons next to civilian locations. If I'm Israel and want to attack the Hezbollah who are firing rockets at me then I'm going to send a bomb/missle and not my troops. In that way War is sloppy.

Shit, what we need is a bunch of Jehovah Witnesses gone Evil with guns (Yes I realize they’re pacifists but that ruins my joke)

Do you except the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior. Why not? Oh your Hezbollah well here’s a tract/grenade describing the afterlife.

DigitalJunkie

July 27th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Take Pres. Bush as an example, he and Israelis were surprised that Palestinians supported Hamas not the corrupted by west the PLO. The reason, U.S. & Israel did not see the people at all to ask for support! You can deal with Hezbollah by dealing with people of Lebanon. It is important to seek support of people, even if you do not succeed at first.

I don't see, Bush & Israel's use of force as the only option!

kerjodando

July 27th, 2006, 10:38 PM

Has anyone seen what the American intellectual (who probably doesn't watch CNN) has to say about the conflict between the civilised world and the r*g he*ds as you americans would put it:

Noam Chomsky on New Middle East War click here for Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKq38COoTG8)

Avram Noam Chomsky (b. December 7, 1928) is the Institute Professor Emeritus of linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Chomsky is credited with the creation of the theory of generative grammar, often considered to be the most significant contribution to the field of theoretical linguistics in the 20th century. He also helped spark the cognitive revolution in psychology through his review of B.F. Skinner's Verbal Behavior, in which he challenged the behaviorist approach to the study of mind and language dominant in the 1950s. His naturalistic approach to the study of language has also affected the philosophy of language and mind (see Harman, Fodor). He is also credited with the establishment of the so-called Chomsky hierarchy, a classification of formal languages in terms of their generative power.

Outside of academia, Chomsky is far more widely known for his political activism, and for his criticism of the foreign policy of the United States and other governments. Chomsky describes himself as a libertarian socialist and a sympathizer of anarcho-syndicalism (he is a member of the IWW). He is generally considered to be a key intellectual figure within the left wing of the United States politics. According to the Arts and Humanities Citation Index, between 1980 and 1992 Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar, and the eighth most cited scholar overall.

wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky)

Chomsky was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the son of Hebrew scholar and IWW member William Chomsky, who was from a town in Ukraine. His mother, Elsie Chomsky (née Simonofsky), came from what is now Belarus, but unlike her husband she grew up in the United States and spoke "ordinary New York English". Their first language was Yiddish, but Chomsky says it was "taboo" in his family to speak it. He describes his family as living in a sort of "Jewish ghetto", split into a "Yiddish side" and "Hebrew side", with his family aligning with the latter and bringing him up "immersed in Hebrew culture and literature". Chomsky also describes tensions he personally experienced with Irish Catholics and anti-semitism in the mid 1930s stating "I don't like to say it but I grew up with a kind of visceral fear of Catholics, I knew it was irrational and got over it but it was just the street experience"

He's jewish so probably he is not anti-semetic
.
.
.
;-)

kerjodando

July 28th, 2006, 01:50 AM

C'mon now ragheads? "As the Americanes would put it?".

Sorry.

Really sorry.

I did not know that it was an offensive term.

We don't use it in UK but I hear it alot on US TV.

BTW We use the following terms for our neighbours here in UK without ANY OFFENCE being taken what so ever (however there are other terms that I will not list here that do cause offense.)

Scottish People - JOCKS
Welsh People - TAFFS
London People- COCKNEYS
French People- FROGGIES (They eat frogs legs)
German People- KRAUTS (the eat sour kraut)
French call English people le Rosbifs (Roast Beefs)
Irish People - PADDYS
Yorkshire People - TIKES
Italian Peoples- ITIES
Jamaicans/African People - BLACKS
Indian/Pakistanis -ASIANS
Red Haired People -GINGERNUTS
People with light hair - BLONDES
Americans - YANKS
Austrailians/South Africans -ANTIPODIANS
etc and so it goes

I thought the use of RH as it describes a form of dress was similar term of endearment in the states.

I really can't see why it is offensive can you please explain.

I take it a rag is a peice of cloth and head refers to wearing it on the head in the Arabian fashion.

Am I missing something here?

Christoph

July 28th, 2006, 04:41 AM

Of course it aint, but when Hezbollah hides behind them like little pussies you try to do the best u can. Of course war sucks, maybe somebody should try to tell Hezbollah to knock the shit off and stop attacking Israel in the first place. Dont forget, HEZBOLLAH ATTACKED FIRST, and the last time I checked they are the ones firing rockets EXCLUSIVELY AT CIVILIANS INDISCRIMINATELY. So u tell me who the bigger jerk is.

Stop war? Of course, now if only it was so easy. Tell the arab countries and terror groups they finance to stop attacking ISrale and then the war would be over. Remember too, that most arab countries still dont recognize Israle and are committed to its complete and total destruction.

What are they supposed to do? Be a big wimp and let themselves be attacked all the time and not do diddly-squat? I wish I was a Jew Id lend a hand.

Lets not forget to about all the crazy shit these guys make up about the Jews, that they drink the blood of children, the Elders of ZIon BS, that they hate Muslims, etc, etc. Maybe somebody should tell them about all the Muslims that live in Israel proper and in fact are members of the Israeli Knesset (Parliament). Too bad reason's a one-sided coin these days.

In the end, u want a ceasefire Lebanon? Tell Hezbollah to disarm and give back the soldiers they KIDNAPPED. Case closed. Until then, enjoy life indoors just like Northern Israel thanks to good ol' Hezbollah, those crazy rootin-tootin rocket-firin' cowboys. Yeehaw!
You are right!I mean at all, the Problem is that fucking nazi-germany( not today but 60 years before) was a terrible and very very bad country.They have killed and banished the jews.They needed a new home and it was, after long discussions at the UN, a part of Palistina.
The poor jews tried to find a playce and found a playce with other people...yea great dicision...well at all they had to defend this little place...but on this little place other people lived....mhhh you see at all its a problem wich germany made.I think we should give them land and space here in germany...its to late for that...but I see the barred responisibillity here in my country.
I hope we (the world) can olve this conflict.
On both sites a mother is crying when children don't come back home.

lifehacker

July 28th, 2006, 04:58 AM

He's jewish so probably he is not anti-semetic

Karl Marx, the founder of communism was Jewish and anti-semetic.

thats y israel shouldn't be going all out on civilians it should get hezbollah alone.
Im sorry but Israel does not yet have programmed bullets that look for terrorists. Hizzbollah specifically positions its weapons cache and men in public areas. There is no way to defeat the Hizzbollah without harming those surrounding them. Its impossible. No war is easy and there are always civilian casualties especially if somebody uses the civilians as human shields.

lifehacker

July 28th, 2006, 05:06 AM

kerjodando

July 28th, 2006, 05:56 AM

You are right!I mean at all, the Problem is that fucking nazi-germany( not today but 60 years before) was a terrible and very very bad country.They have killed and banished the jews.They needed a new home and it was, after long discussions at the UN, a part of Palistina.
The poor jews tried to find a playce and found a playce with other people...yea great dicision...well at all they had to defend this little place...but on this little place other people lived....mhhh you see at all its a problem wich germany made.I think we should give them land and space here in germany...its to late for that...but I see the barred responisibillity here in my country.
I hope we (the world) can olve this conflict.
On both sites a mother is crying when children don't come back home.

Very public spirited to take the blame but it is the new settlers in Palistine be they eastern european or american that are to blame. Colonist normal are resented by the natives - that is where the trouble starts.

You see History Repeats itself with a Vengence (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5222154.stm)

When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982, the initial pretext - reflected in the codename given to the operation, Peace for Galilee - was to push PLO guns about 40km (25 miles) back from the border, beyond range of northern Israel.

But the real agenda of then-Defence Minister Ariel Sharon in 1982 swiftly became clear, as Israeli forces raced to Beirut and besieged an Arab capital for the first time.

It was far more ambitious: to decapitate the Palestinian movement by destroying the PLO, to eject Syrian troops from Lebanon, and install a friendly government in Beirut which would make peace with Israel.

And so and so...........................................

Increasing resentment against the continuing Israeli occupation provided fertile ground for Iran and Syria to encourage the formation of a vehicle that was to prove both deadly and effective in driving the Israelis out: Hezbollah, which did not exist before the invasion.

And so and so...........................................

Israel has launched a stunningly violent attack on Lebanon with flexible but wide-ranging political ambitions, which are partly tied up with the perception that it is fighting part of its American partner's "war on terror".

Destroying Hezbollah is not possible. It is deeply rooted in Lebanon's biggest community. In alliance with the more moderate Shia movement Amal, it dominates Shia politics.

By inflicting massive damage on Lebanese civilians and the country's infrastructure, the Israelis apparently intended to exert pressure on the Beirut government to curb Hezbollah.

And so and so...........................................

In contrast to many previous bouts of violence, there has been an extraordinary lack of US restraint on the Israelis, who have this time pursued a course more violent than anything they have unleashed on Lebanon before.

And so and so...........................................

Any fixed presence would clearly act as a magnet for more attacks by Hezbollah and perhaps other Lebanese and Palestinian groups, rallying against a new occupation of Lebanese soil that would further bolster Hezbollah's raison d'etre as a resistance movement.

History repeating itself, again.

You see it is the actions of Israel, however well intentioned, that has caused the current crisis.

see the BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5222154.stm).

THE BBC IS NOT BIASED

News sources
The BBC News website is the internet arm of the biggest broadcasting news-gatherer in the world.
It launched in November 1997 and has since published approaching one and a half million full multi-media news pages, all but a handful of which are still available from the site's search engine (top right of almost every page).

Each page is published by the teams of online journalists based in the main newsroom in BBC TV Centre at White City, west London, at BBC World Service at Bush House in central London, in national and regional newsrooms across England, in Glasgow, Belfast and Cardiff and in an increasing number of the BBC's many international bureaux worldwide.

Much of the material is written by these journalists and the rest comes from writers in the BBC's specialist units, covering everything from business and social affairs to foreign news. Many of the BBC's correspondents operating worldwide also contribute as well as those at BBC Monitoring. Non-BBC journalists are frequently commissioned to contribute.

The BBC Sport website, produced by BBC Sport, is fully integrated with the BBC News site, using the same technology and delivery platforms and edited in partnership.

A wide variety of sources is used in the preparation of material - including BBC News, BBC World Service and a large number of internationally-recognised news agencies. They include the Press Association, Associated Press, Reuters and Agence France-Presse.

News Sources

Any content specified as Reuters content is the intellectual property of Reuters. Any copying, republication or redistribution of such Reuters content, including by cacheing, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and Reuters Sphere logo are trade marks and registered trade marks of the Reuters Group of companies around the world. The Reuters public website is accessible at:

Reuters
BBC Monitoring, based in Caversham in southern England, selects and translates information from radio, television, press, news agencies and the Internet from 150 countries in more than 70 languages.

BBC Values

BBC values

The BBC has signed up to these values:

Trust is the foundation of the BBC:
we are independent, impartial and honest
Audiences are at the heart of everything we do
We take pride in delivering quality and value for money
Creativity is the lifeblood of our organisation
We respect each other and celebrate our diversity so that everyone can give their best
We are one BBC: great things happen when we work together

Twelve Governors regulate the BBC, upholding standards and defending it from political and commercial pressures.

They set its objectives and report on its performance in their Annual Report to licence payers and Parliament.

Have you got anything similar in the US? We are really proud of the BBC in the UK. It is guaranteed independant, impartial and honest so it is as near to the truth as you can get. :)

lifehacker

July 28th, 2006, 06:32 AM

CNN has the exact same morals and states the exact same thing on their website. Their swearing of a 100% truthfull news broadcast means nothing whatsoever. You can show only side of the arguement and never lie but does not that mean that you are unbiased? Read this: http://www.socialaffairsunit.org.uk/blog/archives/000191.php
And this: http://bustingbbcbias.blogspot.com/
And this: http://www.labour-watch.com/bbcbias.htm
BBC stating that they are truthful means nothing whatesoever whether they are biased or not.

Jared Moya

July 28th, 2006, 08:18 AM

BBC aint biased? Ha ha ha ha. R U kidding me?

kerjodando

July 28th, 2006, 09:46 AM

BBC aint biased? Ha ha ha ha. R U kidding me?

Yes it is difficult to be impartial and neutral.

I know this as my day job is working for the Red Cross hence my interest in current affairs.

They are doing a good job in the Lebanon:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41939000/jpg/_41939884_lebhurt_afp416.jpg
A young Lebanese girl becomes another civilian casualty of the battle between Israel and Hezbollah.

Suppose should be grateful that it is Israel preparing to invade it is usually the US like in Afganistan, Iraq, Europe (though that was good as you saved our asses).

Who should the US invade next:

See this video from You Tube >>> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4WK1_KHR_c)

Have a good weekend

steevej

July 28th, 2006, 09:52 AM

hello everybody

lifehacker

July 28th, 2006, 10:02 AM

Who should the US invade next:

See this video from You Tube >>> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4WK1_KHR_c)

Have a good weekend
I saw that video some time ago and didnt know what to do cry or laugh: are so many Americans really that retarded?!

Jared Moya

July 28th, 2006, 10:32 AM

First off, I owe u an apology kerjodando, made a post, since deleted, that crossed the line into name calling and the use of poor language. I think I had been drinking, and as we all know drinking and politics just dont mix.

In any event, that YouTube video was dam funny, I especially like how people twice over confused Australia for France, Korea, and even Iran. One guy remarking in fact he didnt know that "Korea was so big"

I think it just goes to show how many idiots there are out there and why things get so muddled behind peoples ignorance. Places like this are then helpful for people to exchange facts, opinions, ideas, etc. and form their own EDUCATED conclusions. Gotta love that.

Anyways, again my apologies kerjodando, and I think on the youtube note I'll stay out this thread for a while, and especially in an effort to avoid "drunk typing" :)

derekb

July 28th, 2006, 11:04 AM

French People- FROGGIES (They eat frogs legs)
German People- KRAUTS (the eat sour kraut)
Irish People - PADDYS

i think you find these are offensive to the french, german and irish!

and personally i dont like being referred to as jock

Unsueable Davey Brown

July 28th, 2006, 12:32 PM

It's interesting how the perceived hatefullness of a name changes geographically.

For example the "R" word Kerjodando used is considered majorly offensive, and bigoted in my area - comparable to the "N" word in America. Curiously enough though it doesn't refer to Muslims here. It refers to Sikhs. OT, I know, just an interesting little bit of bigot trivia for ya.

kerjodando

July 28th, 2006, 12:45 PM

i think you find these are offensive to the french, german and irish!

and personally i dont like being referred to as jock

OK point taken.

Won't use them.

However, these terms are normally only used in jest or as terms of endearment.

However, I can see how they can be offensive if used in a spiteful hateful way.

BTW

No problem Soulxtc about earlier exchange you have to be prepared to take it if you dish it out.

And I do realise that the point I'm supporting is not the popular or official line.

But I must admit that the discussion has been very useful and entertaining.

BTW I've found something about the mini nukes and poison gas the Israelis are mean't to be using.

The mini nukes = depleted uranium war heads

and

the poison gas = chemical weapon shells.

I'm not saying it is true but check out these links:

Poisonous Gas dropped on villages by Israeli military in southern Lebanon (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060721&articleId=2788)

July 22/23, 2006 -- U.S. military intelligence sources have told WMR that the artillery shell shown below being used by an Israel Defense Force member in Lebanon, is a type of dual and multi-use weapon the neocons falsely accused Saddam Hussein of possessing. Although the canister artillery shell is marketed as an anti-land mine fuel-air bomb, its payload can also include the chemicals used in thermobaric bombs, white phosphorous weapons, and chemical weapons. Thermobaric bombs contain polymer-bonded explosives or solid fuel-air explosives in their payloads. Thermobarics use a fuse munition unit (FMU) such as that seen on the nose of the Israeli artillery shell. The shell penetrates buildings, underground shelters, or tunnels, creating such a blast pressure that all the oxygen is sucked out from the spaces and the lungs of anyone who happens to be in proximity. Israel's use of such "vacuum" weapons has been reported from across Lebanon.

The artillery shell below, with its FMU penetrator, can also be used to deliver chemical weapons, the use of which is also being reported from southern Lebanon. In addition, it can deliver white phosphorous, a substance that literally melts through skin but leaves clothing relatively intact. In Fallujah and elsewhere in Iraq, U.S. forces have used white phosphorous on civilians, leaving grotesque corpses as a psychological warfare reminder to the civilian population to surrender or evacuate an area. The photo from Sidon of a burnt and badly disfigured young Lebanese girl is a telltale sign of white phosphorous use by the Israelis. Similar photos from Fallujah were shown to this editor by a top investigative reporter for Italy's RAI television network.

U.S. military intelligence experts believe the ease at which the Israeli soldier is handling the artillery shell is an indication that the payload contains light-weight gas and not a fuel-air mixture or thermobaric bomb components. WMR continues to receive reports from Lebanon of depleted uranium shells being used by the Israelis. The New York Times today is reporting that the U.S. is stepping up its delivery of "precision-guided" munitions to Israel (see article below on Bush administration pre-planning for the Israeli invasions of Lebanon and Gaza).

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/IDFChem.jpg
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/sidon1.jpg PICTURE REMOVED AS TOO HARROWING FOR YOUNGSTERS

Israeli dual/multi-use WMD (left) and badly burnt body of young Lebanese girl with telltale signs of white phosphorous attack. (http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/)

Israel is now using poison gas and depleted uranium shells on towns in the south of Lebanon (http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_news&Number=294779091&t=-1)

ISRAEL OBLITERATES LEBANON BY CLUSTER AND VACUUM BOMBS AND WHITE PHOSPHORUS (http://www.islamonline.net/discussione/thread.jspa?threadID=1241&tstart=0)

So I'm not saying it is true but it's being talked about!

aqlo

July 28th, 2006, 05:39 PM

How do you get Hezbollah alone when they live right next door to the civilian
Don't be misled, it's worse than that and even apologists for terror like we see all through this thread know it. The real question is, how do we tell the terrorists from the "innocent civilians" who have them living right next to them and yet when you come looking for them they say Oh no, we have no Hizb u'allah here! How do we tell the terrorists from all the other people in civilian dress burning American and Israeli flags and cheering and laughing whenever another cowardly attack takes place? How do we tell Hezbollah from normal people in normal Arab clothing plotting the destruction of the free world?

Stop acting like there's any difference, that's how. Hezbollah is Southern Lebabon, just like the Republican party is the so-called "red states" in the US.

There are plenty of reasons at this late date for us to stop pretending that this planet is big enough for free societies and people who believe in Sharia law to share it. It isn't. Extinction is coming soon, for one side or the other. There's no more room for hesitation and confusion and misinformation, there's no more room for any civilized Muslims that might be left in the world to do anything except get away from those other Muslims as fast as they can. Don't look back, remember the story of Lot's wife. Separate yourselves from this abomination now or else stop acting surprised when someone happens to spill Abomination-be-gone™ on you.

kokanezub

July 28th, 2006, 06:35 PM

lifehacker i smell u man. u seem like u support the killing of civilians like that lil girl. im not taking sides im just saying fight hezbollah not the people. im sure if ur family was dieing ud see it differently. im not going to lower my self to your level by the way and say israel is this and that . im just going to say leave this war in gods hands because in a war like that there is no telling when it will officialy end and how many more will die.

and to all the people who hate arabs. thank you.

i like the way soulxtc says his posts. he speaks his mind in a positive way. its cool to hate hezbollah or israel. just dnt hate on the inocent people on either side.

bobhss

July 28th, 2006, 11:49 PM

It was far more ambitious: to decapitate the Palestinian movement by destroying the PLO, to eject Syrian troops from Lebanon, and install a friendly government in Beirut which would make peace with Israel.

And if they had succeeded in 1982 we wouldn't have a war today. Let's hope they succeed this time.

lifehacker

July 29th, 2006, 01:44 AM

lifehacker i smell u man. u seem like u support the killing of civilians like that lil girl. im not taking sides im just saying fight hezbollah not the people. im sure if ur family was dieing ud see it differently. im not going to lower my self to your level by the way and say israel is this and that . im just going to say leave this war in gods hands because in a war like that there is no telling when it will officialy end and how many more will die.
Kokanezub, I in no way whatsoever support the killing of innocent civilians. Civilian deaths are a tragic result of war and should be avoided as much as possible. I am saying that some things are unavoidable and impossible to prevent. Israel can not possibly take out the Hizzbollah without hurting stand-by civilians. Where are you getting the idea that I support the killing of civilians?

Irocks

July 29th, 2006, 05:30 AM

aqlo

July 29th, 2006, 06:52 AM

none can say that Iraq dosent have to do with it

Your link doesn't say crap about Iraq, none of the information about the Khaiber missile has anything to say about Iraq, no one in Iraq presently has the capacity to manufacture missiles, any missiles that might have been manufactured in Iraq in the past would be being supplied now by Syria or, less likely, Iran.

get the Lebanese Govenor (president whatever) to stop sitting on his a*s and start doing somthing about the Hizballa

Lebanon has both a president, Emile Lahoud, a military leader with close connections to Syria; and also a prime minister, Fouad Siniora, a businessman with a wide coalition in the Lebanese parliament. Neither of them have any control over Hezbollah, anymore than President Bush has any control over say the American Communist Party for example. There is some hope that Siniora or whoever succeeds him could at least mobilize some of the real Lebanese military to go down and do something about Hezbollah, but what they would do won't involve "telling", it will be about "shooting".

so dumb they shot some missles on Arabs!!! and killed 2 arab brothers aged 7 and 4
I think

It's a shame little children are dying, no matter what side they are on. It might not have to happen if there weren't so many cowards in the world.

You say you are Israeli, what's your unit? What's your rank?

kerjodando

July 29th, 2006, 07:06 AM

If you want to end this conflict then one of the best ways to do it is to get the Lebanese Govenor (president whatever) to stop sitting on his a*s and start doing somthing about the Hizballa and if he's got somthing against Isreal the we'll see to it that those "mini nukes and poisen bomb" land on his friggin house!!!

btw I have some other peice of evidence that Iraq is working with the hizballa I heard in the news that a rocket was fired towards a isreali ship there is evidence that it was an Iraqi MISSLE!!!!
now none can say that Iraq dosent have to do with it

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/28/mideast.main/index.html?section=cnn_world

and btw there are a lot of Isreali casulty's

Those Hizballa are so dumb they shot some missles on Arabs!!! and killed 2 arab brothers aged 7 and 4
I think

Lebanese Internal Security Forces said Saturday that 421 people have been killed and 1,661 have been wounded in Lebanon since the attacks began.(Watch a student recall treacherous trek to Beirut -- 3:57) (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/28/mideast.main/index.html?section=cnn_world) Per CNN

BTW using depleted uranium shells (mini nukes) is bad for Israeli Defense Force (the attacking Israeli Army) as well. Uranium pollutes basically everything forever. That is no way to treat G_d's earth. Watch this space for complaints from Israeli soldiers in the next few month coming down with "Gulf War Syndrome".

Unsueable Davey Brown

July 29th, 2006, 10:35 AM

kerjodando

July 29th, 2006, 11:53 AM

Where is this mini-nuke idea coming from. It keeps getting thrown out like it's an accepted fact. I can see why the Israelis might want to use bunker-busters, or what you're calling mini-nukes. They'd be handy in clearing out those tunnel networks. I just haven't heard any reputable news agency claiming they're being used yet.

So...link please.

Here are some mini nuke links (you pay your money you take your choice, believe or not believe?)
DEPLETED URANIUM WARHEADS GOING TO ISRAEL (http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=17475)
Israelis Rain Down Deadly DU On Lebanese Civilians (http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m25167&l=i&size=1&hd=0)
Neocons Ready to Send US Troops to Lebanon (http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m25089&l=i&size=1&hd=0)
ISRAEL AND HIZBULLAH MUST SPARE CIVILIANS Obligations under ... (http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=ENGMDE150702006)- Amnesty International USA
Lebanon/Israel: Urgent need for arms embargo on Israel and ... (http://www.amnesty.ie/user/content/view/full/6195)
First, Destroy the Archives (http://www.counterpunch.org/toensing07272006.html)
Lebanese resistance exposes limits of US-Israeli power (http://www.workers.org/2006/world/hezbollah-0803)
Depleted Uranium Situation Worsens Requiring Immediate Action By President Bush, Prime Minister Blair, and Prime Minister Olmert
Dr. Doug Rokke, PhD., former Director, U.S. Army Depleted Uranium project (http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m25045&l=i&size=1&hd=0)

However so what- the UK and US uses mini nuke in Iraq. However they seem to be harming our own troops more than the enemy!

grab_grab_the_haddock

July 29th, 2006, 04:30 PM

Kokanezub, I in no way whatsoever support the killing of innocent civilians. Civilian deaths are a tragic result of war and should be avoided as much as possible.

So you really think the Israeli's are avoiding civilian deaths "as much possible" ? Seriously, only a moron would buy that.

Unsueable Davey Brown

July 29th, 2006, 06:52 PM

Kerjo, Kerjo, Kerjo. tsk, tsk. You sent me to Uruknet for information. I can't believe you sent me to Uruknet for information. That's like sending someone to a white racist site for information on the second world war. Then you send me to some hysterical, far left, the sky is falling, Beirut Bob guy at Workers.org. You're joking right? The other links didn't say what you wanted them to.

Look I'll help you along on your search. Here's what we know from reputable media.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/mideastconflictarmsus

The US has been sending Israel Bunker-Buster bombs since 2005. The shipment was accelerated recently as a result of the lebanon conflict. The GBU 28 or bunker-buster can use depleted uranium, but it doesn't necessarily do so.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster.htm

So until you can give me a link to a reputable news organization, I'm going to say we do know the US has supplied bunker buster bombs to Israel. We don't know if these are the GBU 28s utilizing depleted uranium. We don't know how much, or on what targets bunker busters have been used.

(Oh and speaking of Uruknet. That site is freaking ridiculous. Did you catch that one bit where they were claiming to have photographs proving the use of depleted uranium. Earlier in the article they led you to believe they were talking about the GBU 28s. The picture was of a tank guy loading a tank shell. A GBU weighs 5,000 pounds. And where do they find those pictures of the mutated babies and children? If it wasn't so sad it would be funny)

Jared Moya

July 29th, 2006, 07:33 PM

So you really think the Israeli's are avoiding civilian deaths "as much possible" ? Seriously, only a moron would buy that.

What do yo call leaflets? You're the moron. Lifehacker ain't. Dont see Hezbollah droppijng leaflets before their rocket attacks. Still as one sided as ever heh Grab? What's up with Nutjob? Stil as nutty as ever?

kokanezub

July 29th, 2006, 09:31 PM

So you really think the Israeli's are avoiding civilian deaths "as much possible" ? Seriously, only a moron would buy that.
some one has common sence

soul , israel dropped the leaflets on a city and said u have 2 hrs to leave as the cars we leaving israel bombed the cars. come on dude i was in lebanon.i seen the terror.i see the plane drop like these anvils that just smash(i dnt no wut their called) i see red bullets flying in the air in a triangle like birds fly . u hear *dig dig dig dig dig* boooommm booooommmm boooom---vrrrooooommmmmmmmmm then shit falls off my table and my balls fall too. get one thing str8 tho i dnt support either side. i dnt support hizb or israel i just wanna see the innocent live.

cheapprick

July 29th, 2006, 09:56 PM

get one thing str8 tho i dnt support either side. i dnt support hizb or israel i just wanna see the innocent live.

I believe you for the most part. If you were really gunning for Israel you wouldn't even refer to its name.

What's your take on this discussion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAfowVcKL-k&search=daily%20show%20%2B%20israel

What do you think of the expert's take on Egypt's, Saudi Arabia's and Jordan's support of Israel's actions against Hezbollah?

bobhss

July 29th, 2006, 11:14 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAfowVcKL-k&search=daily%20show%20%2B%20israel

What do you think of the expert's take on Egypt's, Saudi Arabia's and Jordan's support of Israel's actions against Hezbollah?

Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan are more moderate Arab countries than Iran or Syria. Why would they want to see radical Islamic factions like Hezbollah become stronger? Hezbollah might not think they are being good Muslims and start attacking them (and cause trouble inside their countries.)

kerjodando

July 30th, 2006, 12:20 AM

************************************************** ************************************************** *************************************
VIDEO REPORT FROM MASSACRE AT QANA BY BBC UK*****CLICK HERE***** (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi?redirect=st.stm&news=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=5228266)
************************************************** ************************************************** *************************************

So you really think the Israeli's are avoiding civilian deaths "as much possible" ? Seriously, only a moron would buy that.

OK this is what the left wing israel hating terrorist supporting washington post says,

QANA, Lebanon (Reuters) - An Israeli air strike on a south Lebanon village on Sunday killed at least 35 civilians, including 21 children, witnesses and rescue workers said.

They said several houses in the village of Qana collapsed and that a three-storey building where about 100 civilians were sheltering was partially destroyed.
US newspaper website (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/30/AR2006073000040.html)

The BBC says something similar,

Initial reports suggest that displaced families had been sheltering in the basement of the three-storey building, which was destroyed.

Local emergency workers said there were many children among the casualties.

The UN says some 600 people - about a third of them children - have been killed by Israeli action in Lebanon since their operations began nearly three weeks ago.

A total of 51 Israelis, including at least 18 civilians, have been killed in the conflict, sparked by Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid earlier in July.

So Israel is winning 600 to 18 in terms of civilian deaths. [sick humour]

The Israeli strike destroyed several buildings in the village between Qana and the village of Aitit.

Reliable casualty figures are not yet clear, but first accounts suggest they may be very high. Sources in the Lebanese Red Cross say as many as 50 or 60 people may have been killed, and many others injured.
BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5228016.stm)

Are you getting this news in the US?

Now even the UK government has turned against Israel. This is what a government minister has said

Mr Straw, a former Foreign Secretary, made his comments in a statement after meeting the community leaders on Wednesday.

He said Israel, like any UN member, had a right to defend itself "proportionately".

But he added: "Kim was right to say if Israel are 'chasing Hezbollah, then go for Hezbollah... don't go for the entire Lebanese nation'."

He said Israel, like any UN member, had a right to defend itself "proportionately".

Mr Straw said he grieved equally "for all those innocent Israeli civilians killed in the conflict" and the "10 times as many innocent Lebanese, men women and children, killed by Israeli fire". BBC website

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41944000/jpg/_41944748_coffins416ap.jpg
A mass grave was dug in the Lebanese port city of Tyre as more than 30 victims of the conflict were buried in simple plywood coffins.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41944000/jpg/_41944740_tyremourningap220.jpg
Few mourners were at the burial, but the sense of grief was overwhelming.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41944000/jpg/_41944768_babyafp416.jpg
The dead included a one-day old baby. His mother also died. (Notice the red cross at the scene.)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41943000/jpg/_41943936_oil416afp2.jpg
Elsewhere, a fuel tank was hit in what Lebanon says is the biggest environmental disaster the Mediterranean region has known.

A second Qana Massacre?
In realms of biblical narrative, some believe it to be the scene of Jesus Christ's first miracle, turning water into wine during the wedding at Cana of Galilee.

In modern times, it was the scene of one of the bloodiest events of the modern Arab-Israeli conflict, the Israeli shelling of a UN base sheltering Lebanese civilians 10 years ago.

A UN investigation reported in May 1996 that the deaths at the Qana base were unlikely to have been the result of an accident as claimed by the Israelis.

The UN report cited the repeated use of airburst shells over the small UN compound, which sent down a deadly torrent of shrapnel that caused terrible injuries among the unprotected civilians.

The UN also noted the presence of Israeli helicopters and a drone in the skies over Qana which must have witnessed the bloodbath.

In the current round of Israel's bombardment, Qana has again been in the news - the scene of several incidents, such as the bombing by Israel of two Lebanese Red Cross ambulances (note: the Red Cross is meant to be in war zone) and the death of a young Lebanese photojournalist, Layal Nejib, also in an air strike on her car.

Israeli officials say leaflets had been dropped in the area warning civilians to leave their homes so it could conduct more anti-Hezbollah operations.

However, it seems clear that, with the number of civilian cars and convoys which have been bombed on the roads heading to Tyre, many residents chose to ignore the Israeli warnings.

BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5228554.stm)

Is no one in the States concerned about this?

Unbelievable - Christian towns being bombed by US weapons on a Sunday.

Does no one care?

lifehacker

July 30th, 2006, 12:56 AM

So you really think the Israeli's are avoiding civilian deaths "as much possible" ? Seriously, only a moron would buy that.
As I already said in this case it is very hard and almost impossible taking out Hizzbollah members without hurting the civilians who the Hizzbollah uses as human shields to hide behind. The only moron here is you if you dont understand this. What do you want Israel to do? Sit back, let Hizzbollah rain rockets down, kidnapp soldiers while Israel does not retaliate on the basis that they are afraid to hurt the civilians the Hizzbollah is hiding behind? That would be considered a victory, Hizzbollah would multiply as well as gain more supporters and be incouraged by the "victory" and Israel's inability to strike back. The only way to deal with the Hizzbollah is "we dont give a fuck where you are, well find you and kill you" Peacefull negotiations dont work. Israel is using as much caution as possible when taking out the Hizzbollah to limit the number of civilian casualties but they will not halt their attacks because the Hizzbollah are being pussies and hiding behind the civilian population.

If Israel does not strike back now, and not strike back hard not only will the Hizzbollah multiply and consider the attacks a victory but they will continue receiving arms supplies from Iran until in a few years they will have the capacity to hit larger cities in Israel like Tel Aviv as well as mount a much more powerful offensive/defensive. Sooner or later Israel would have to invade, and the sooner the better, both for the Lebanese civilians (the war will be shorter and less Hizzbollah fighters to fight) and for Israel.

cheapprick

July 30th, 2006, 02:04 AM

I think your picture bit is dirty pool kerjodando. They are there to solicit sympathies, which by themselves aren't a negative thing, but only for one side.

there are others to feel bad for too (http://images.google.com/images?q=wounded+israelis&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images)

grab_grab_the_haddock

July 30th, 2006, 05:53 AM

As I already said in this case it is very hard and almost impossible taking out Hizzbollah members without hurting the civilians who the Hizzbollah uses as human shields to hide behind.

This is one of the dumbest arguments supporters of Israel make. Hizbollah are a guerilla army, so they use guerilla tactics. You don't honestly expect them to come out and fight in the open against Israeli tanks and Apache gunships?

Launching attacks from concealed positions in civilian areas is a common tactic in guerilla warfare. It was used by the French to resist the nazi's and even by American's against the British during the revolution. I'm guessing you don't view the French resistance as a bunch of "pussies" hiding behind "human shields", although that was an argument nazi propaganda put forward to justify demolishing towns and murdering people, for example at Oradour-sur-Glane.

You are using exactly the same discredited argument used by the nazis to justify the killing of civilians. Well done lifehacker, you truly are in exhalted company.

What do you want Israel to do? Sit back, let Hizzbollah rain rockets down, kidnapp soldiers while Israel does not retaliate on the basis that they are afraid to hurt the civilians the Hizzbollah is hiding behind?

This is called the fallacy of the excluded middle. You wrongly present Israel's options as being a choice between two extremes: launching a terror war wiping out hundreds of lives, or sitting back passively and letting themselves be attacked. They always had more choices at their disposal. For example they could have funded and equipped the Lebanese army to carry out policing operations in the border area, asked for an international peacekeeping force to be organised, or (God forbid) actually release some of the Arab prisoners, many of whom are detained without a proper trial.

Widespread attacks on civilian areas should always be an absolute last resort, after every possible alternative has been completely exhausted.

Peacefull negotiations dont work.

I'm sceptical about this, I can think of a number of armed conflicts which have been settled by negotiation. Do you have anything to back this claim up ?

Israel is using as much caution as possible when taking out the Hizzbollah to limit the number of civilian casualties

Again, I'm quite sceptical. Israel have slaughtered hundreds of innocent men women and children. Do you have any evidence for this claim?

aqlo

July 30th, 2006, 06:34 AM

Hi Grab Bag, good to see you again.

Here's the part I don't understand, but maybe you can set me straight. Israel has killed about 600 people during 3 weeks of deadly war, by air and with ground fighting too. That strikes me as a ridiculously low number. We killed more people than that while we were still theoretically deciding if we wanted to fight Iraq or not.

Israel is destroying 10 city blocks for every missile fired into their territory, yet they have only killed 600 people. "Al Qaida" killed 3 times that many people taking out just one city block in one makeshift attack on New York.

Again, 3 weeks of high-power warfare, only about 200 civilian casualties a week. Dropping leaflets a day before attacks. Focusing consistently on property damage. 10 city blocks for every attack the Lebanese government fails to prevent being launched from inside their theoretically sovereign country.

People have made a big deal out of the fact that Israel destroyed some UN observers and aid stations in the course of this process. The UN for whatever reason thinks its a good idea to station unarmed observers in a war zone and leave them there even after they complain that the actual guerillas are hiding near them. It's a shame that people have to die for purely political reasons, but that's what the UN is apparently all about these days.

Again, 3 weeks of war, only 200 casualties per week. 10 city blocks per attack, only about 1 civilian death per city block. It seems very apparent to me that Israel is avoiding killing "innocent people" to an extent previously unknown in modern warfare. Yes, I understand that even one death is in some sense as bad as the end of the world. The Israelis understand it too, the Jews invented the concept. But if you want to make an omelette, you're going to have to break a few eggs. If we get involved in this war, if a multi-national force makes it in there the way George W and Tony Blair are campaigning for, I expect we will make more casualties enforcing the peace than Israel is making waging the war.

Do you get that? I would rather have Israel fight me than have the coalition forces protect me, less people would die. So how is it not obvious that the Israelis are avoiding civilian casualties to the greatest extent ever seen in modern war?

Make me smarter if you can.