Why Linux will never be popular

[The Hunter]

I thought I would give Linux a try, but after looking around, it plainly requires too damn much work to ever be considered user friendly. I looked at Damn Small Linux, and there are a lot of versions, now where do you extract them to? How about a version you can download, and burn, and the os actually installs and works without tinkering with it. This is not sour grapes, but if they ever expect to become more popular, it needs to be simpler.

[Auggie2k]

Noob friendly is the term I like. I've tried it and I like the many options you have, but it is a lot of work.

[RACKnRAIL]

I thought I would give Linux a try, but after looking around, it plainly requires too damn much work to ever be considered user friendly. I looked at Damn Small Linux, and there are a lot of versions, now where do you extract them to? How about a version you can download, and burn, and the os actually installs and works without tinkering with it. This is not sour grapes, but if they ever expect to become more popular, it needs to be simpler.

I feel your pain dude. I still don't get it either. I was using Mandrake. I somehow managed to d/l a file, but it took me another 3 hours to find it on my HD. LOL!

My friend at work (Linux Guru) has tried helping me. He insists how much better off I'll be, when it takes him 3 days to read about it...another 3 days to do it....and finally, he's got something to work. Now that's efficiency.

[nightshadow]

Have you tried SUSE or Gentoo by any chance, I've found them to be easier then most and fairly graphically.
But no matter what linux flavor it still takes effort for a lot of simple tasks.

[Theinfamousone]

I hate it when people COULD make something easy, but for some reason they just didn't feel like it. Usually it looks like they went out of their way to make it complicated...sighs...I used Lindows for a while and that looked ok, but when you have to run wine and winex and all that garbage...well...

[Krypt0]

http://www.xandros.com/

East transition/addition/dual boot to windows XP

----------|Links for the lazy|----------
Download Xandros Desktop OS Version 3 (http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_download.html)
Check out some Screenshots (http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_screenshots.html)

[The Hunter]

I have been checking into it more, and I may mess with a live version, but for what I do windows is much simpler, and actually works out of the box.

[nukehella]

http://www.xandros.com/

East transition/addition/dual boot to windows XP



Yeah I've got that on a dual booter downstairs.I'm anxiously waiting for Xandros 4.0 to come out.
Also there is a new Knoppix live DVD due out any day now,I have the unofficial version thats floating around but haven't tried it (this version)yet

[The Hunter]

I just loaded the live version of SOHO 5.1.2 and everything went fine, except it could not find the net. Any feedback?

[TheBlackSails]

Ubuntu is also a good noob-friendly distro.

[lifehacker]

Yes ubuntu is probably the simplest Linux but its still not easy. I myself use fedora core 4 Linux but I had a friend who could help me out whenever I had problems or questions when I was just starting to learn Linux.

I dont know if many Linux users want Linux to become popular. Being not very widespread can also have a positive effect not only a negative one.

[The Hunter]

True, but Im looking for a live version that will 1 actually recognize my drivers, and 2 find the darn net. SOHO found my drivers fine, but could not go online. I liked the look, and feel, but Im wondering if the problem was me or the os. I was told that when I hit the login screen to use user=root, but it flashed by so fast i had to go with the default.

[tackdaddy]

i have always wanted to try it but i feel that i have enough things going on in my life to try and figure out how to use a new OS. 99 % of everything i learned on the computer is self taught and that took long enough.

[The Hunter]

Some of mine is self taught, a hella lot was Krell taught., but Im trying to stay open minded. Its not easy when 98se, and xp can find and load everything so the whole system actually works, and so far I have not found a Linux Live cd that can find the net. I really want the free stuff to work, but so far it has just been wasted disks, and time.

[number9]

I'LL tell you whiners why linux wont ever be popular! Because you would rather spend your time in a forum qvetching about a better os than you would going online to any of the THOUSANDS of free linux websites that would teach you a thing or two about it---like linuxquestions.org or frank's corner---thats why!
Windows takes advantage of people's natural laziness and inertia---every version of it that has EVER COME OUT has scores if not hundreds of errors--which they tell you the latest service pack will fix (instead the service packs are primarily for inserting yet more stoogeware into a system already BURSTING with it). But because you are already somewhat familiar with micro$oft's os---you stay with it--even though most of you know what a bunch of thieves, liars and dirty tricks artists M$ is.
I got one word of mercy for you bleaters----suse
Its so noob friendly that if you cant figure it out then youre just TOO LAZY to eat!
RENOUNCE UNCLE BILLY!
CAST THE EVIL M$ FROM THY HARD DRIVE!
REPENT! REPENT! REPENT!
LINUX! LINUX! LIIIIIIIINUUUUUUUXXXXXX!!!!! ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

Wow.

Welcome to Zeropaid, number9.

[The Hunter]

Umm, blow me. Im looking, and trying, but the steaming piece of dung needs too many pieces to actually work. I can install 98se, and it will work, and has worked already for 2 years without formatting. most Linux users seem to be installing much more often. You are missing the idea of installing an OS. When you install it should actually work. Get the point? I want it to work, and am trying to make the bugger work, but so far it does not, and hell even ME would install, and actually run. If you want to feel LEET and play with yourself, I mean OS to finally see a desktop so be it. I did not start the rudeness, but can easily chuck it back. Im working on learning Linux, are you working on manners?

[CRLocky]

Can I request a blow too?

[The Hunter]

you can request, but not recieve. LOL
Im sorry for me getting pissed, but When Im making an effort to learn, i hate an asshole proving the reason why we find most Linux users to be asses. They arnt, but it is the ones like the previous poster that make us want to make the choking motion.

[mountain_rage]

Theres alot of good that can come out of linux but it does have alot of ground to work on. First off there needs to be a collective driver server where all clients can download up to date drivers and install them for you. The other problem is a lack of standards, all clients use differnt sub programs and are compatible with only certain programs. What the linux comumnity needs to do is start to work together rather then against each other. Another major problem is lack of support from hardware makers, its getting better but its still lacking. Relying on 3rd party drivers especially for main parts isnt very good.

A few other notable problems would be lack of a stanrdard interface, theres no reason not to make a standard for all platforms that can be changed after installation. They also need a graphical interface for alot of the command bassed option(again give both options if you like command bassed you can use it). There needs to be more optomization, often I found that things that could be automated were not automated for the sake of costomizability, sure its nice to be able to compleatly modify the platform but why not give us either option.

To say linux will never be popular is stupid to say in my opinion for this simple reason. There are no limitations to what linux can become, the only limitation is on those willing to program for it. Mac os x is bassed off unix as linux is and its a very popular and efficient platform, some would even argue better then windows. So to say that it will never be popular just doesnt make sense.

The good points I would say going for linux is how open it is. Unlinke windows you shouldnt have problems with proprietary formats that can only be read by one company's software/hardware. Another things thats nice is the fact that no one can force and option on you, if people are fed up they can simply remove the setting. You simply have full access to your machine.

[nukehella]

How about a version you can download, and burn, and the os actually installs and works without tinkering with it. This is not sour grapes, but if they ever expect to become more popular, it needs to be simpler.

here's the link to Knoppix 5
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linux-Distributions/KNOPPIX-Live-DVD-2621.shtml

I've used the last few releases,haven't tried this one yet.The previous release recognized everything I ever threw at it.This version is supposed to be pretty easy to install to your hard drive(I've never done that with Knoppix),but it's supposed to be just OK as an installed OS.It's as a Live distro that it rules.This version is supposed to make it easy to write to your NTFS files.
Anyway with this all you have to do is burn it and boot with it.If you don't install it to your HD and just run it off the DVD(which is easier and leaves your MBR and God knows what else alone) you'll need a second optical drive(internal or external) if you want to burn anything.

[bobhss]

Agreed nukehella, I like the Live Knoppix CD(s). They've always worked for me (booted up fine, let me get online)

[que-em]

i had a problem also where no linux distro could get a internet connection. i tried mandriva, linspire, ubuntu/kubuntu, suse, mepis, knoppix and never a connection. after some long searching on google i found out that my linksys ethernet card was indentify itself incorrectly therefore linux didn't know how to deal with it. i ended up going to newegg to specifically find a card that would work with linux and windows, bought the dlink card, installed it and then fired up the ubuntu live and the problem was solved.

[The Hunter]

I may have to do that to get it to work, but Im seriously wondering if its worth the trouble. I wouldnt be doing it for stability, as I had 98se running for over 2 years with no problems, and this install of xp pro is way over a year, but I would have to check the actual install date to know how long it has been running. The simple fact that I can install 98, and xp and everything works, including my connection with no tinkering is a big plus for me.

[nightshadow]

If your interested I could donate you a dlink nic that has worked with every version of linux I have tried.
I'll have to check the inventory but I'm sure there are a few lying around after I upgraded my lan last.
Nothing fancy just some 10/100TX, really they are not even worth my effort to sell.

[The Hunter]

Thanks, and I will let you know how I make out with my latest downloads.

[Lehk]

Yes ubuntu is probably the simplest Linux but its still not easy. I myself use fedora core 4 Linux but I had a friend who could help me out whenever I had problems or questions when I was just starting to learn Linux.

I dont know if many Linux users want Linux to become popular. Being not very widespread can also have a positive effect not only a negative one.

not easy?

when i replaced my mother's dead hard drive i installed ubuntu that night so she could brows the web and stuff, ubuntu is far easier to install than windows, and i have a lot more experience working with windows.

[Potato]

A friend of mine uses VMWare for his Linux playing.

[The Hunter]

It is easier if you know what you are doing, and I dont when it comes to Linux., but Im trying to give it a fair shake. SOHO is now running from the live cd, and is running fast enough for me to be modding at 2 sites. I dont have the mail working yet, but 1 thing at a time. Do I like it? Who knows, but at least its running, and now working. I rebooted the modum while loading the live cd, and it connected.

[nukehella]

I was running fedora in VmWare but it was kind of clunky.
Also having Windows available on a second PC while you are learning linux is a big comfort.

[evilmegaman]

if you really want to get to know linux hunter, I REALLY reccomend installing it to the hard drive. Ubuntu's very easy. It's 100x easier to install than windows XP is. I guarentee that. you just have to use your brain and say "I can't use the mouse during the installation" to yourself fifty times until it's clear ;)

[The Hunter]

All I have is one pc, but if I can get comfortable with SOHO, Im going to install it on my 8.4 gig spare. Im using removable bays, so I would be able to change the os quickly.

[shawners]

The "scene" folks try to help you all out. They use underscore or dots in a filename. Some operating systems have problems opening files with spaces in the file name..
like hostel.dvdrip.xvid., instead of hostel dvdrip xvid.

[muffenme]

I tried some Linux but they lack several things including a device manager, a way to simply install/uninstall software. It still need work to make it simular to Windows 95.

[The Hunter]

For now Im going to just try and become a bit more used to it, and the tricky stuff can come later. The fact that its free, and running off the cd with no installed crap is a plus. If Mr Gates made a live cd it would come with warning to get an IE critical update. LOL

[maynoth]

well autopackage www.autopackage.org is working on making software installation easier....

wine www.winehq.com is getting better every year...

maybe they will get a device manager in a few years

I think in 5 years ubuntu will replace windows.... if wine evolves enough to run 95% of windows software bug free then why would you waste your time with MS.

[nukehella]

Hunter's going about it the right way.Walk before you run,etc.I'd be lost without Windows but I keep slogging away with Linux when I feel like it.After a while my learning curve and Linux developement will intersect and I'll be free at last.

[maynoth]

a few more years nuke... a few more years.. I have seen linux grow exponentially over the past few years...
if it could ever reach critical mass, where enough people were helping to code and fix bugs etc... it would snowball out of control and destroy MS..... I wish someone would really fund projects like wine and autopackage to speed their development..

[Psilaxs]

It honestly is not worth it, I have played with linux so many times and every time was let down by the billionth version promising to work effeortlessly. It is like liver, no matter how it is cooked it still sucks (yet we try it again anyway).

When I instal an operating system and cannot get my damned video drivers to work within 5-10 minutes screw it. And i have found when seeking help with linux you get snobbish assholes with a better than thou attitude because you are deprived of the required "leetness" to run the damned program (i don't dare call it an operating system)

[Krell]

It honestly is not worth it, I have played with linux so many times and every time was let down by the billionth version promising to work effeortlessly. It is like liver, no matter how it is cooked it still sucks (yet we try it again anyway).

When I instal an operating system and cannot get my damned video drivers to work within 5-10 minutes screw it. And i have found when seeking help with linux you get snobbish assholes with a better than thou attitude because you are deprived of the required "leetness" to run the damned program (i don't dare call it an operating system)

You'll never know the joys of telling your friends you stayed up all night re compiling your kernel! (for everything you ever have to do with it)

usr\bin\fuxord

.

[Psilaxs]

You'll never know the joys of telling your friends you stayed up all night re compiling your kernel! (for everything you ever have to do with it)

usr\bin\fuxord

.

Thats exactly it, I appreciate the tinkering aspect of it, I love to tinker, but when i want to jump on my PC and actually DO SHIT, Windows is the place.

[The Hunter]

I feel the same way.

[The Hunter]

Here is something else that is very annoying. As a newb, I was under the assumption, that if a live cd worked, that I could install the os with no problem. Not so as the os is whole different can of worms.

[pimpinaman]

I'm glad Hunter is posting his play by play with Linux, for someone looking to get into it, this thread will be awesome. Someone who knows their way around the windows enviroment pretty well, and trying out Linux.
Keep trying Hunter :)

[The Hunter]

The term Operating System infers that it actually operates. A more apt term would be, a Do It Yourself Kit, as every time I ask if something will just install, and work, the answer usually is well you have to get this, and try that. I have more important things in life, like breathing, getting out in the sun, and turning on the pc and actually having it work.

[Krell]

When Linux emerged, I told people that it would never take off in the mainstream, because the average user will not be able to install and maintain it. Most techies have trouble with it.

They gloated at how small the installation size was . . then once they worked on it a while, and said "see how much more user friendly it is?" the installation size was the same or more than Windows.

The point is, that you get what you "pay for" and you pay for what you get.

If you want something strippy and light, get W98 or XP lite, if you want an OS that has more features, epect it to be larger and have more complications.

Considering the size of XP Pro, it is very stable and robust, and a lot easier to install and manager than any Linux disribution.

So is free or open source really better? Not when it's larger, they charge for it anyway and it takes your left nut to try to do anything with it.


.

[The Hunter]

What Im going to do, is install 98se on my 8.4 gig, and if I want to run Linux, it will be from a live cd that I know works.

[maynoth]

Krell,

I agree linux sucks atm, but just imagine if it had 50% market share on the desktop arena... Imagine if everyone was actively coding to fix bugs, trim code bloat, add new features, etc. If it could ever reach that level it would evolve way past any commercial os.

[The Hunter]

Its going to keep sucking, unless they stop trying to make more doityourself kits, and actually code something that works.

[Krell]

Krell,

I agree linux sucks atm, but just imagine if it had 50% market share on the desktop arena... Imagine if everyone was actively coding to fix bugs, trim code bloat, add new features, etc. If it could ever reach that level it would evolve way past any commercial os.

It's already a commercial OS, it would just be MORE of one, with the same over priced 3rd party software and security holes. Linux is on the same road as the MS products, and a chief complaint, or observation of mine is that you cant be all things to all people. The more that the OS is required to do, the more one expects, the larger it gets.

With the processing speeds and RAM available now, I think the answer lies in lean coding and linking. I posted an article a few days ago that was hot off the press, stating that 60% of the Vista code has to be rewritten.

No amount of free-lancers and hobbiests are going to be able to produce a product on the order of XP or Vista in your lifetime, it would take the coordinated resources of a company such as Google that can drive this, and put the fundage where it needs to be.




.

[nightshadow]

If it had 50% percent of the market it would just suck for that many more people. Mostly because most of the market is not into contributing. The whole contribution paradigm only gets more complicated on a large scale when people are not making enough money to cover the time and energy they spend giving back to the project especially when there are easier ways available.
I like GNU/linux, I really do, but if it wants to take over the world the distributions are going to have to get organized and start working together and with developers synergystically. To much effort, not enough pay, for freeware or even the low level commercialization that is becomeing more normal for developers.
You're definately hitting the nail on the head there Krell.

[teh_n00ber]

I have recently installed Mandriva 2005 but couldn't find much to do with it. Internet worked which was useful but media editing and creation wasn't really possible (well maybe it was but it was too much of a hassle). I've also used KNOPPIX Live CDs and a SUSE 10 Live CD (which looks amazingly good). I tried to install this one on a seperate 25 Gig partition but my Hard Disks weren't recognised...which is a shame as I think I could really have gotten into that one. (though internet didn't seem to work on the Live CD (DVD actually) I tried)

[The Hunter]

Instead of all these different flavours, that always have problems, why not make a vanilla flavoured IE, basic one that works.

[nukehella]

it would take the coordinated resources of a company such as Google that can drive this, and put the fundage where it needs to be.

.
I'd like to see that. Interesting thought,what put you on to it?

[evilmegaman]

Hunter: I am sorry to say but your negative words towards linux don't speak for all forms of linux. In fact, You say you're using SOHO, But I don't even know what linux that is! All it means to me is, "small office/home office" But If I have to guess, I am guessing you mean vector linux.

Anyhow my point is, You're basing your criticisms on something that is not the true thing. You're using a Live CD. It's close, But there is so much to do in linux, A live CD lets you do about half. You may argue this isn't true. But If you want to download programs, learn a lot of stuff and such, you MUST install it to the hard drive. And I would also reccomend a distribution Where you KNOW it's not going to be easy. using a distro That claims to be easy, will just make you frustrated.

Therefore:

If you want to really know what linux is all about:

a) Go at it with an open mind
b) Try to start with a harder distro, for when it's easier, you're limitting it.
c) Be prepared to use your resources! And ask questions when you have one. you're (probably) not a super genius so don't try to be one! We all have stupid questions that we must ask. Why avoid it?
d) best resource is IRC especially when using a smaller distro
e) *shameless plug* linuxp2p.com I think will be a better place to argue and stuff. Dablade's awesome.

btw just want to point out that not everything you guys say is completely invalid at all, A lot of them are quite correct.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Linux COULD go mainstream if it was given about 20 years for society to be more computer saavy

[The Hunter]

Sorry, but it was VL SOHO-5.1.2, and I tried PCLinuxox, and it locked up my pc so I had to reboot to get the cd out. Why should we have to be bloody geeks to use an operating system. Im sorry if I sound harsh, but its not just me if you read this thread. Some of us actually have lives, and do not intend to spend them trapped inside trying to learn different versions that dont work, unless you are 1/2 programmer.

[The Hunter]

Yes it is Vector.

http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9386&highlight=livecd

[evilmegaman]

Sorry, but it was VL SOHO-5.1.2, and I tried PCLinuxox, and it locked up my pc so I had to reboot to get the cd out. Why should we have to be bloody geeks to use an operating system. Im sorry if I sound harsh, but its not just me if you read this thread. Some of us actually have lives, and do not intend to spend them trapped inside trying to learn different versions that dont work, unless you are 1/2 programmer.

That brings me to my next point: Linux wasn't made to "just work" Just because it's an OS doesn't mean it will be like windows. Honestly I think we are quite spoiled (windows users) Like I said you have to go in with an open mind always expecting the worst

[The Hunter]

I did go into it with an open mind, and Im quite happy to tinker, but to actually have a basic Operating system to start with would be a plus. Just the basics and then we could mess it up to our hearts content. Some people need an operating system that actually does work out of the box.

[The Hunter]

PS, Im not dissing anybody that uses Linux, more power to them.

[Krell]

you have to go in with an open mind always expecting the worst

Actually that is the end result of most people that have already tried it a few times


.

[The Hunter]

IMHO, just going and installing a totally foreign OS to learn on is not the way to go. Some versions of Linux rely more heavily on command lines, and I do not think they would be noob friendly in the least.

[mcovey]

I could use it daily.

I choose Windows because I had limited system resources and windows is an OS that I actually understand how to strip the bloat out of and run small apps on.

Linux takes more memory etc. and feels more swampy.

I've used it daily, now I use it as a server.

[The Hunter]

Megaman Im honestly trying it. I was running Knoppix_V3.6 in german, although it was supposed to be the english version. I did get it online, and post elsewhere. I tried Damn Small Linux, but had a connection problem. That Im sure I could work out, but I had a problem with the speed, probably related to the compressing, and uncompressing of files. It may be how I was doing things, and Im going to look for a way around this. You should know me well enough by now to know that when Im doing something like this, and posting at the same time, Im being brutally honest, including my frustrations. If I see something that annoys me, and I feel causes problems I will voice it.

[nukehella]

Get torrents for knoppix in sizes from 1 CD to a DVD here-make sure you get one that ends in EN, not DE
http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/

[The Hunter]

Thanks, but I already have one incoming.

[multi]

hey hunter with the knoppix you were trying
try F2 at the boot prompt

knoppix lang=us


some other knoppix cheat codes:

knoppix lang=cn|de|da|es|fr|it|nl specify language/keyboard
knoppix lang=pl|ru|sk|tr|tw|us specify language/keyboard
knoppix gmt Use GMT-based time
knoppix tz=Europe/Berlin Use this timezone for TZ
knoppix atapicd Do NOT use SCSI-Emulation for IDE CD-Roms
knoppix alsa (or alsa=es1938) Use ALSA sound driver (at your own risk)
knoppix desktop=fluxbox|icewm Use specified WM instead of KDE (1)
knoppix desktop=kde|larswm|twm Use specified WM instead of KDE (2)
knoppix desktop=wmaker|xfce Use specified WM instead of KDE (3)
knoppix screen=1280x1024 Use specified Screen resolution for X
knoppix xvrefresh=60 (or vsync=60) Use 60 Hz vertical refresh rate for X
knoppix xhrefresh=80 (or hsync=80) Use 80 kHz horizontal refresh rate for X
knoppix xserver=XFree86|XF86_SVGA Use specified X-Server
knoppix xmodule=ati|fbdev|i810|mga Use specified XFree4-Module (1)
knoppix xmodule=nv|radeon|savage|s3 Use specified XFree4-Module (2)
knoppix xmodule=radeon|svga|i810 Use specified XFree4-Module (3)
knoppix 2 Runlevel 2, Textmode only
knoppix floppyconfig Run "knoppix.sh" from a floppy
knoppix myconf=/dev/sda1 Run "knoppix.sh" from a partition
knoppix myconf=scan (or config=scan) Try to find "knoppix.sh" automatically
knoppix home=/dev/sda1/knoppix.img Mount loopback file as /home/knoppix
knoppix home=scan Automatic search for knoppix homedir
knoppix no{apic,agp,apm,audio,ddc} Skip parts of HW-detection (1)
knoppix no{dhcp,fstab,firewire} Skip parts of HW-detection (2)
knoppix no{pcmcia,scsi,swap,usb} Skip parts of HW-detection (3)
knoppix pnpbios=off No PnP Bios initialization
knoppix acpi=off Disable ACPI Bios completely
knoppix usb2 Try to initialize USB 2.x controller(s)
failsafe Boot with (almost) no HW-detection
knoppix pci=irqmask=0x0e98 Try this, if PS/2 mouse doesn't work *)
knoppix pci=bios Workaround for bad PCI controllers
knoppix ide2=0x180 nopcmcia Boot from PCMCIA-CD-Rom (some notebooks)
knoppix mem=128M Specify Memory size in MByte
knoppix dma Enable DMA accelleration for ALL IDE-Drives
knoppix noeject Do NOT eject CD after halt
knoppix noprompt Do NOT prompt to remove the CD
knoppix vga=normal No-framebuffer mode, but X
knoppix blind Start Braille-Terminal (no X)
knoppix brltty=type,port,table Parameters for Braille device
knoppix wheelmouse Enable IMPS/2 protocol for wheelmice
knoppix nowheelmouse Force plain PS/2 protocol for PS/2-mouse
fb1280x1024 Use fixed framebuffer graphics (1)
fb1024x768 Use fixed framebuffer graphics (2)
fb800x600 Use fixed framebuffer graphics (3)
knoppix keyboard=us xkeyboard=us Use different keyboard (text/X)
knoppix splash Boot with fancy background splashscreen
+ animations + progress bar **)
knoppix toram Copy CD to RAM and run from there
knoppix tohd=/dev/hda1 Copy CD to HD partition and run from there
knoppix fromhd Skip checking for Knoppix on CD-ROM
knoppix fromhd=/dev/hda1 Boot from previously copied CD-Image
knoppix bootfrom=/dev/hda1 Access Image then boot from previously
copied CD-Image (enables booting from
NTFS / ReiserFS) ***)
knoppix bootfrom=/dev/hda1/KNX.iso Access image, boot from ISO-Image. ***)
knoppix knoppix_dir=KNOPPIX Directory to search for on the CD.
knoppix knoppix_name=KNOPPIX Cloop-File to search for on the CD.
knoppix testcd Check CD data integrity and md5sums
expert Interactive setup for experts

NEW Kernels and Options in version 3.4:
knoppix26 [Options...] Boots with Kernel 2.6 (2.4 is default)
expert26 [Options...] Same for expert mode
knoppix26 acpi=off Disable ACPI configuration in Kernel 2.6
memtest Run memtest86 instead of Linux

F2 at the boot prompt and put them in like knoppix nodma vga=nomral lang=us

found them here:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15668&highlight=lang+de+lang+us

[nukehella]

hey hunter with the knoppix you were trying
try F2 at the boot prompt
[/B][/COLOR]

Now that's what is needed here.Someone who actually knows what they are doing as opposed to those like me who are learning.Hunter has probaly gotten enough generic advice and is approaching the point where he will have specific questions.
Damn all this linux talk has got me motivated.I think I'll hook up a USB optical drive and burn some DVD's with Knoppix.

[multi]

hunter and i have been chatting on this same subject at
P2PC (http://www.p2pconsortium.com/index.php?showtopic=6617&view=getnewpost)

i remembered vaugly about the different boot time cheat codes
and did a search at the knoppix forum
ie. the highlighted text(?&q= lang+de+us) (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15668&highlight=lang+de+lang+us)


searching for linux stuff can help get you search techniques down pat
either that or drive you fucking insane or both

[Lehk]

IMHO, just going and installing a totally foreign OS to learn on is not the way to go. Some versions of Linux rely more heavily on command lines, and I do not think they would be noob friendly in the least.

Fedora is very noob friendly, so is ubuntu.

when you start going away to smaller distros you need to be experianced with *nix to get much done, or be willing to spend a lot of time learning

[The Hunter]

So far Im finding Knoppix V4.0.2 pretty intuitive, and not very hard at all.

[waqasr]

i have installed PClinuxOS through VMware couple of days ago and i found its
installation easier than windowsXP.
now comes the difficult part......!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_scra

[The Hunter]

Thats an interesting thought, and one I know I cant echo yet. Im so used to installing windows that it just comes so easily. ( usually that is, as shit happens ) Im going to do a lot of studying on different live cds, and then make a list of what I do, and dont like about each version. Im also going to play around to try and get the ones that didnt want to work actually running. From that experimentation i will make a choice as to if i go further, and if so what version Im going with.

[nukehella]

Yay!! Hunter is going to write us a tutorial in his spare time.

[The Hunter]

LOL, more of a trials, and tribulations. Im also interested in some feedback as to how those here set up their personal Linux installations. IE # of partitions, allocated amount of drive space, and so on. I have my reasons for asking this.

When i first started reading about Linux, the main thing that intrigued me was the talk about being able to use an older pc, and have much more speed from a less bloated installation. IE, being able to make good use of an older pc that folks found too slow. Now Im really wondering if the focus has been lost or what. Much of the talk Im hearing now is, " well it wont run fast on that old pc ". Now this is not a knock against any comments, but more to get feedback, as I feel there is too much mumbojumbo, and not enough straight from the shoulder stuff.

[The Hunter]

As i linked my discussion at p2pconsortium here, here is a link back there, so we can all see the different help, and comments.

http://www.p2pconsortium.com/index.php?showtopic=6617&st=0

[Roadblock]

I decided last September that I was tired of being bent over by Uncle Bill. I had always said that when WIndows started playing too nice with Hollywood, that would be my incentive to learn Linux.

Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am far from an expert on Linux or WIndows, so if I can do it, anyone can. I had a lot of help from P2PC members like BoaR, MamiyaOtaru, Multi, posiomike, greffov and others, but mostly it was trial an error, reading posts at various Linux websites (the ubuntu/kubuntu community is a FANTASTIC resource), and persistence. I have now completely replaced XP with Linux as my OS of choice. I can do everything in Linux that I did in WIndows, including news groups. The only reason I keep XP on my system at all, is so I can keep up with it enough to help out friends and neighbors when they get stuck.

My current Linux OS is SImply Mepis 3.4-3, a debian deritive. Before that, it was Kubuntu and PCLinuxOS. I can recommend all of them. I disagree with the folks that say Ubuntu is great for newbies. While being a great Linux distro, there are many others I would recommend trying first. That being said, ubuntu/kubuntu was a great learning experience for me. There are so many things you have to do for yourself, that the others do for you automatically.

If anyone is interested, I also have a thread at P2PC (http://www.p2pconsortium.com/index.php?showtopic=5422) that I started back last September. It's several pages long and by now a little dated, but still an excellent resource for anyone considering taking Tux for a plunge. ;)

[The Hunter]

Thanks for jumping in with your thoughts my friend. It is your move that got me curious, and the fact that you are having fun doing it is a plus.

[Roadblock]

No problem old friend. :-)

(I really just popped in to give krell a noogie :-D)

[evilmegaman]

roadblock, you mean to tell me you're a linux user now???? This is insanely great news! Congratulations on the choice ;)

[Roadblock]

Yes sir, I am an obnoxious Linux fanboy now. (well, I guess I was always obnoxious, but now as a Linux user. :icon_tong)

Lovin it too. :icon_thum

[multi]

about the size of the main partition
at first 5-10Gb was plenty, but over time i have had to go back to windows
and bump up the size (one time considerable ass bleeding did ensue *see BoaR's warnings on partition magic :) )
anyway now it 50Gb..

so go with a little bit more than you think you will need if you can spare it

[Krell]

*I am not endorsing this and I have no affiliation whatsoever with this person. I post this in the spirit of this thread for you to observe and discuss if you wish.*



http://crystaldawn.net/ebay.php

This was my Ebay description that I used on Ebay for an item titled "Windows XP Pro Alternative". Due to the increased fees of Ebay, they have become to greedy for my blood and thus I'm now offering this on my website ONLY. The ebay version sold for $9.99 + $7.00 Shipping. But since I no longer have to pay the ebay fees, I can now offer this for $10 flat which INCLUDES shipping. Click the Buy now button to get this amazing OS that I created myself. This is NOT a distrobution you've ever heard of before as it's my own creation. The name of it is CoulKat OS.

US Residents $10.00 Outside the US $15.00


This is an image of the CoulKat OS that you would receive.

This is an example of running another OS within a window while running CoulKat OS at the same time using Qemu/Vmware-Player.

This is an example of running another OS within a window while running CoulKat OS at the same time using Qemu/Vmware-Player. Here you can see the evil empire desktop.
VMWare-player is so fast that you can even run games at full speed in it! Here I am playing Warcraft 2 ;)
You do not always have to use an emulator to play games! Check out this screenshot, it shows me playing Neverwinter Nights NATIVELY. There really are some awesome games made for CoulKat OS, NWN is one of them.


. . . .

Please note that while 100% of the applications on our DVD are FREE, this does not mean that you can just go download something and expect it to have all of these great apps, because frankly, nothing exists that is this comprehensive. As you can see by just the shear number of applications we have, this is just the tip of the iceburg. There are also 1000's of other applications that we havent listed here that are in our synaptic repository. Another perk of this auction is that you will get to use private Synaptic Repositories that are never busy. We've taken A LOT of time to put all these pieces of software together into a complete, usable OS for you to enjoy and made it look pretty along the way. So while the software itself is free, our time to put it together is at least worth a couple pennies ;). We also support our OS, so you will get support along with this auction.

Another note, we DO NOT ALLOW ISO DLing due to the ease of Paypal fraud with items that have no tracking number.

http://crystaldawn.net/ebay.php




.

[waqasr]

I decided last September that I was tired of being bent over by Uncle Bill. I had always said that when WIndows started playing too nice with Hollywood, that would be my incentive to learn Linux.

Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am far from an expert on Linux or WIndows, so if I can do it, anyone can. I had a lot of help from P2PC members like BoaR, MamiyaOtaru, Multi, posiomike, greffov and others, but mostly it was trial an error, reading posts at various Linux websites (the ubuntu/kubuntu community is a FANTASTIC resource), and persistence. I have now completely replaced XP with Linux as my OS of choice. I can do everything in Linux that I did in WIndows, including news groups. The only reason I keep XP on my system at all, is so I can keep up with it enough to help out friends and neighbors when they get stuck.

My current Linux OS is SImply Mepis 3.4-3, a debian deritive. Before that, it was Kubuntu and PCLinuxOS. I can recommend all of them. I disagree with the folks that say Ubuntu is great for newbies. While being a great Linux distro, there are many others I would recommend trying first. That being said, ubuntu/kubuntu was a great learning experience for me. There are so many things you have to do for yourself, that the others do for you automatically.

If anyone is interested, I also have a thread at P2PC (http://www.p2pconsortium.com/index.php?showtopic=5422) that I started back last September. It's several pages long and by now a little dated, but still an excellent resource for anyone considering taking Tux for a plunge. ;)

Yup RoadBlock i went through that thread and found it very interesting and useful!!
and its bcoz of u i installed PclinuxOS.
God bless! :icon_thum

[Roadblock]

Thanks bud, glad I could help. :icon_thum

PCLinux is a really sweet Linux distro. Incidently, that is the distro that is being used by the person who posted krell's ebay post. Not sure about selling a free os, but they seem to be just trying to recover postage & handling mostly so it isn't as bad as it sounds. If I was going to pay for it, I believe that I'd send the money to Texstar (http://www.pclinuxos.com/page.php?1) though. He's the daddy of PCLinuxOS. :icon_salu

[vixenk]

LOL, more of a trials, and tribulations. Im also interested in some feedback as to how those here set up their personal Linux installations. IE # of partitions, allocated amount of drive space, and so on. I have my reasons for asking this.

When i first started reading about Linux, the main thing that intrigued me was the talk about being able to use an older pc, and have much more speed from a less bloated installation. IE, being able to make good use of an older pc that folks found too slow. Now Im really wondering if the focus has been lost or what. Much of the talk Im hearing now is, " well it wont run fast on that old pc ". Now this is not a knock against any comments, but more to get feedback, as I feel there is too much mumbojumbo, and not enough straight from the shoulder stuff.
I tried starting off on Ubuntu, but I agree with what someone else here said - Ubuntu isn't quite newb friendly yet, especially if you end up with driver issues as I did. I then went to Mandrake 10, which ended up being perfect *for me* to start out on, and later on upgraded to Mandriva 2006. I really like Mandriva as a beginner distro... it comes with more than enough packages for everything which can all be optionally installed so you have plenty to play with out of the box if you want, and you can do practically anything in the OS - even in installation and configuring your drivers - the "easy" way or the "hard" way... so it's pretty good for learning at your own pace without having to shoot yourself in the foot so to speak. The reason this was good for me is because I can be completely ocd when it comes to finishing a task/learning something new, and the last thing I need is having constant issues that cause me to stay up for days trying to learn enough to fix them *it doesn't help any either that I'm not a monkey - I won't type commands that are given to me unless I understand what they're doing*... there's also the factor I decided to completely wipe XP off my hdd so I wouldn't be as tempted to go back to it and use it *I loathe reinstalling an OS*.

It's a hard learning curve, for sure, but using an "easy" distro helps lighten it some, although you shouldn't at all go into an easy distro expecting it to be as easy as Windows. You're probably going to go through at least a couple of days in which you want to just kick your box. For me, it took about a week to finally start settling in and catching on to things. There are still times I feel like kicking my box, but it's worth feeling that way now because the feeling you get when you finally figure something out is just incredible. I mean, did you ever find yourself jumping up and down screaming with joy because you finally figured out how to do something insanely stupid in Windows *like install a piece of software*? Linux will do that to you, and the sweet spot is that meanwhile you gain a better and clearer understanding of how an OS works. One of my friends once said, it's like the ultimate game for hardcore gamers, lol. *he was joking, but in some odd way, he had a point*

Ok, sorry for that long essay, but I guess I just wanted to let you know, I know exactly where you're at and how it feels. I'm only a month into Linux, so the memory is still fresh. Just hang in there, and eventually, you might just end up loving it more than you ever did Windows. :)

K, for the system files partition I use 5 gigs, and am using 3 gigs of it *I have a ton of programs installed*. For my home partition, I use the rest of the hdd *the home partition is kind of like the My Docs folder in Windows, only it holds almost all of your application/system settings as hidden files*. Plus I have a 1 gig swap partition. Max ram usage I usually get up to is about 200 mb under your typical usage *browser, im client, music*.

[Roadblock]

Execellent advice, and good points vixenk, I wholeheartedly agree. :)

Incidently, for those that might not know, PCLinuxOS was originally an off-shoot of Mandrake/Mandriva. It also includes a little Debian. Ubuntu/Kubuntu is getting more user friendly for newbs, especially with last weeks release of Ubuntu/Kubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake Alpha Flight 6. I still recommend it for those who are ready to make the jump from n00b to intermediate Linux learning. ;)

[Krell]

Execellent advice, and good points vixenk, I wholeheartedly agree. :)

Incidently, for those that might not know, PCLinuxOS was originally an off-shoot of Mandrake/Mandriva. It also includes a little Debian. Ubuntu/Kubuntu is getting more user friendly for newbs, especially with last weeks release of Ubuntu/Kubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake Alpha Flight 6. I still recommend it for those who are ready to make the jump from n00b to intermediate Linux learning. ;)

You know what, all that mumbo jumbo alone is enough to make people steer away from Linux.

Mandrake begat Mandriva, who begat Debian, who Begat Ubuntu, and was no more.

And in the land was also Kubuntu . . .


*yawn*


Just make it fucking work already


.

[Roadblock]

Come on Krell, how do you really feel?!?! (lol) J/K

I do understand your point. For a long time, Linux geeks didn't really want folks to understand. It allowed them to feel special I suppose. But as I said earlier, that is becoming less and less the case. Linux isn't for everyone, but I think with projects like Ubuntu/Kubuntu, there is a real effort to reach out to the masses.

[multi]

thats why i liked hunters old avatar of the bsd deamon copulating with tux,
they had a baby and it was gentoo :)


http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=588&slide=7&title=gentoo+linux+2006.0+screenshots

[MorphineInduced]

I wouldnt say linux is that difficult to learn I mean each one of us learned how to run windows and even if you have a problem with linux it doesnt seem that it is any more difficult to fix than windows..... I dont think it will really become a main stream competitor with windows just for the simple fact that if you ask most of the people that run windows anything they are still hung up on the spyware and yet have trouble even running the software to get rid of it ... Linux isnt bad but even with concentrating on making one distro instead of the several that are out there all you will come up with is another company like microsoft ... ya for the most part the software would stay open source but they would still want money for there distros and that would just be the start of things .... its not like some companies arent trying towards this but who knows only time will tell

[noneya]

You know what, all that mumbo jumbo alone is enough to make people steer away from Linux.

Mandrake begat Mandriva, who begat Debian, who Begat Ubuntu, and was no more.

And in the land was also Kubuntu . . .


*yawn*


Just make it fucking work already


.

Those are all programs running on linux... They are not different versions of linux but different programs you can run on linux. Each one has different features for different targets, decide what you want from an os then pick a distribution package that is best suited for your goals.
The tinkering is a result of the lack of manufactures hardware support, and not a flaw in linux. If more hardware support was available then linux "would be" in the same class as windows.
If you have never had problems with windows then you have not been using it very long! I have been using windows since 3.1 to xp and have never had one of them run perfectly. I have been using a linux system for only a few months and it is also not perfect, however somethings I have noticed that I like better is how linux uses memory and if a program hangs I don't have to reboot because of the way linux works my system is not crippled and the progam that is messing can be terminated.
@Hunter once you have done your tinkering your done you have a working operating system... Surely you tinker to some extent when you get or install a new windows box to get it just the way you like it.

[SoreVexed]

I thought I would give Linux a try, but after looking around, it plainly requires too damn much work to ever be considered user friendly. I looked at Damn Small Linux, and there are a lot of versions, now where do you extract them to? How about a version you can download, and burn, and the os actually installs and works without tinkering with it. This is not sour grapes, but if they ever expect to become more popular, it needs to be simpler.

First off, if linux was designed for "Novices" and other people who know only how to use the programs included with their computers, (but not build, troubleshoot and tinker with like with the way linux is already)
then it WOULD be as popular as windows. Linux was designed with two things in mind: Open Source, and Development. Its free and you can make your own programs and even your own operating system with it. (Saying you have the time and patience for all the code you will have to enter, and other misc. problems)

I'm not bashing you dude, I am just saying that its linux and the people who adore it dont need it to be popular. Sometimes, when I fix the repetitive problems with people's computers, i wish they would just swich to macs, but then id be outta a job, because i hate the things. (even though linux will run on them)

Personally, i have designed my own graphical version of linux for a seven screen system (though i have not fully bugged it out) and i love it. once you know the code and commands, its a breeze.

[The Hunter]

Well, going by the way it is sometimes hyped, IE as being so easy to use, and if you cant use it you are ridiculed, I simply had to make this thread. Although I would love to be able to use it, for now it is simply the lack of time that prevents me from giving ti another go.

[SoreVexed]

You should try again. or better yet, go and get a book on it. thats how i had to learn version 5 and after that everything was kinda etched in stone. i have a few books on it one of which is prety easy to find:

Linux Unleashed
Linux Bible

try em' you will get it dude. besides, linux has more free stuff included than mac or windows and comes in more handy...office 2003 cost me like $500 and linux has most of the same tools included with the three cd's you burn. plus, if you can find it, there is a REALLY COOL version out there called Knoppix. its basically linux that runs from the cd-rom. it works best when it has a good stable system running 650mhz or faster and at least 128mb of 200mhz+ ram. I run it on a 933mhz P3 with 768mb of 333mhz ram and it runs like a pro. you can even run it on a system that already has an operating system installed. (which comes in handy at libraries if you dont like mac or windows). I use that cd-rom more than i reformat my computer.

im not entirely sure you can find Knoppix on the website where you can also download linux, but i know its still out there. along with boot and nuke and a few other very useful tools, (which i will not list) it makes a nice little travel hack.... ....i mean PACK.

[INSERT DISCLAIMER HERE] heh he

[cpugeniusmv]

I was going to post something profound, but then decided against it.

Windows sucks.
OS X sucks.
Linux sucks, too.

I think everyone should use whatever they are able to use most effectively. For many people that's Windows, even if only because it's what they've used from the beginning. If Windows is a hiderance to productivity, they will switch to something else. It'd probably be a Mac before Linux simply because of the greater mindshare.

That said, I'm a computer geek. I like messing around with computers. I got bored with Windows, so I use Linux.

Crap. That was profound, wasn't it?

[Broccoli]

Nice to see you came out of your hole to post, cpu.



On topic, people aren't going to use Linux if they don't have the time and patience to learn something different. They might try it for a while then decide that going back to whatever OS they were using before is just easier because it's what they're familiar with.


Linux is popular. Who said it wasn't? Bunches of people use it. It's just not shoved down peoples' throats like Windows is.

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

Quite the defensive Broccoli today, aren't we?

[SoreVexed]

i dont like macs because they are a pain in the a$$ to get service done for if they are under warranty. although i will say that a good mac laptop runs linux/unix nicely. id rather have a nice ibm for that matter. macs are redundant and they dont catch as many viruses than windows. but then again, now that they are running intel chips... ( GAG ME!!! ) they will be more suceptable to attacks. aint life a peach? i dont get many viruses with my rendition of linux/unix hybrid... mainly because all the system files are unique. but if you are going to make ur own operating system or hybrid just for good virus protection, i guess you might as well be a mac user....lol mac is too easy for me. point and click and its done. i guess i just like a good challenge, or maybe ive been in linux and nix systems too long.

Its nice to finally see some life in your trollish bones cpu. even if u use a mac.... (joking)

[smith100]

try linux sue live ns and ease just make a new partion on your hdd and install it there as esese as that
:)

[nukehella]

try linux sue live ns and ease just make a new partion on your hdd and install it there as esese as that
:)

. Yeah

[helios171]

Hopefully, most of you will shy away from Linux because you read these horror stories. There are many of us who became wealthy fixing the MS system called Windows. Look...I advocate PCLinuxOS. We have installed well over 1000 systems in a year and a half and have 12 year old kids and 84 year old great grandmothers using it. And they installed it on their own...its so simple, even...well never mind. Some people never cease to amaze me in their laziness and ignorance.

Linux is developed by us who want a better system for our children and ourselves. I personally do not want to do business with a convicted felon, and I question anyone who does. Let me ask you something. Why did MS get into the Antivirus business and begin selling Windows Defender? Isnt the problem at their feet in the first place? Isnt their cobbled together system the reason so many people attack it? Why isnt Windows defender a part of the OS free of charge?

Those of you who defend MS just go right on ahead and keep doing what you are doing. My company charges 75 bucks an hour to fix your screwups and here is the funny thing...We use Linux to do it.

Take some time and actually read instead of cry because its hard. Its not hard...its just different. The things that make Linux different is what makes it safer. You think not? Lets exchange real ip addresses. Then, you can email me and ask for your computer back. I can show you one real good reason to switch, but the sad part is that you won't...even when someone rapes your box and owns you...most of you will just reformat and put MS right back on there...

Some distros are harder than others. The oine I mentioned works straight out of the box for 90 percent of those who try it. Your only hurting yourselves by staying with MS...but then again, some would rather endure the pain than expend a few hours learning.

thats sad.

[axlman]

I have a friend who knows Linux, Unix, and those others and after watching him set things up, etc. It's way to much code and commands. I wouldn't mind learning Linux because it would help me land better paying jobs here in the Tech. field, but it's way to time consuming.

[helios171]

Axlman...what you saw was the raw power of linux...didnt you read above? All linux distros are not the same...you think we have 84 year old women doing all that? they just point and click...just like in windows. Two basic differences. The programs are called different things and you install them from one central place and you have thousands of choices...AND all the drivers work. You arnt using the right one is all. I have nothing to sell and nothing to gain...in fact, I am helios from lobby4linux and have helped hundreds of people personally.

This is how important Linux is to me.

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/65616/index.html

If you are truly interested, email me and Ill get you started. I am a noob on this board and no one will listen to me, so you can come back and let them know what you found out.

seriously...if you want to break the chains and dont want all that "command line stuff" I am the guy to help you.

google helios or lobby4linux and you will see

Oh...there are three real differences, not two. You dont pay a dime and dont have to use anything pirated...and you have much less chance getting busted by the riaa using Linux.

h

[evilmegaman]

Axlman...what you saw was the raw power of linux...didnt you read above? All linux distros are not the same...you think we have 84 year old women doing all that? they just point and click...just like in windows. Two basic differences. The programs are called different things and you install them from one central place and you have thousands of choices...AND all the drivers work. You arnt using the right one is all. I have nothing to sell and nothing to gain...in fact, I am helios from lobby4linux and have helped hundreds of people personally.

This is how important Linux is to me.

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/65616/index.html

If you are truly interested, email me and Ill get you started. I am a noob on this board and no one will listen to me, so you can come back and let them know what you found out.

seriously...if you want to break the chains and dont want all that "command line stuff" I am the guy to help you.

google helios or lobby4linux and you will see

Oh...there are three real differences, not two. You dont pay a dime and dont have to use anything pirated...and you have much less chance getting busted by the riaa using Linux.

h

Why would you say you have much less chance getting busted by the RIAA? I can see you having less chance of getting busted by DMCA... but not RIAA...

btw I've seen you around before on one or two linux sites I believe.. Probably on the PCLinuxOS sites.. but yeah it's nice to see you on zeropaid :). Oh and just wondering, who was having driver issues?

[BigRIGG]

Linux wont be popular because its way of use and installing things, its way to hard for basic newbies, I personally love Linux (SUSE and Mandrake) I showed my friend that knows things (about windows) and he was lost, sure thats how most people are. Most people dont want to learn a new OS when windows just them justice, but little do they know when they figure it out, theyd love it Im sure, at first when I started ot venture outside windows I was fuggin lost, but forums are your friend, hardest thing for me was figuring out how to install programs and use the terminal..but thats a pice of cake, guess its like learning to drive a semi, hard with all the gears but practice makes perfect. :)

[Jau_Peacecraft]

i love how some people forget that if you were raised on GUI, more than likley you'll end up staying with GUI instead of linux, which uses both GUI and CPL. And yes im refrrring to that experiment that one guy did with people who never used a computer before and teacihng them how to use CPL; i would post a link but i forgot where it is. They should make classes where you can get reconditioned to get used to CPL; Id imainge thta would make linux not only easier but a lot more fun/interesting to deal with.
I also hate it when people who elite linux users say "oh people are just being lazy". Uh no, I fucking have classes, social life, etc. I really dont have time to get a headache about learning how to install something in linux when i got a fucking paper due tommarow morning or Im surrounded by people who are into Mac's (and i hate crapintoshes).
Yes im also saying linux would be easier / cooler to learn if a friend offline was into it [however gay/noob the concept of a buddy system is]
Also as time goes by Im learning little by little about Windows, so Im already trying to figure whatever about a certain OS, getting into linux puts me in a position to re-learn everything and then when I ask pepole what distro I get 15,000 repsponses. There was also a study on how too many choices is bad for the brain, alas, once again no link.


That said, I'll still give linux a shot whenever I have time. I did have some fun with knoppix's live cd, but then again, fun was just using it like windows and not getting too lost; I didnt use it like a typical linux user would. Linux prolly just needs a lot of time before it can be popular. I mean the mac is becoming popular, im sure when everyone gets tired of trying to emulate a smug 22 yo who drinks frappchinos all day and looks retarded in commercials with his smart ass quips they'll move on to something else.

[smith100]

where do you get the appz from for linux

[unknownpersonage]

where do you get the appz from for linux
you get appz on linux useing package managers which download stuff from internet stores called repositorys and then configure and install it for you and can upgrade or remove software as well
if you want to know more take a look at this
https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html

[vixenk]

i love how some people forget that if you were raised on GUI, more than likley you'll end up staying with GUI instead of linux, which uses both GUI and CPL.
Just so you know, there are distros out there now that require no use of cpl. Obviously you'll have to resort to cpl and/or editing configuration files if you want to do any heavy troubleshooting, administration, or changes, but then again the same is true of Windows.

They should make classes where you can get reconditioned to get used to CPL
Agreed, sort of. I think they should focus more on kids how things work as opposed to just teaching click this to do that in Windows. The fact that they do that irritates me to no end - they're not teaching computer skills, they're just teaching memorization skills. I don't care if they teach kids on Windows or Linux or Unix or BSD or Mac or whatever. Just so long as they teach them what goes on underneath the surface so things make sense to them. This used to be a really big focus in schools - they knew that some of those kids they were teaching would be the ones making the software and hardware one day that they were using. Now it's like all of that is taken for granted.

[Kabifff]

I think it's directly related to the whole "culture of abuse" thing. We, as humans, need abuse. We hate windows, we bitch about it, but we keep it. Us Americans are stupid. Gas is 4 dollars a gallon and we still buy and drive one person around in an SUV.

[Boomer The Dog]

Oh, not me, I love Windows, to me it's part of the greatest advance of my generation, an easy-to-use personal computer and the internet for millions of souls. Bill and Microsoft were in the right place and time to help make this happen, and the people people took to it.

You can do almost anything with Windows, and get rid of the objections with tweaks and custom builds that you can make yourself.

Nothing bad on open source, command line interface, Firefox, Linux, Vorbis, etc., bring them all on!

[kdemetter]

trust me , linux can be very easy . just take a look at the newest ubuntu

to install it , all you basically have to do is read and click next .
in about 15-30 minutes the installation is complete , and nearly everything works ( only real difficult thing is installing propietarty drivers , they work fine but you have the follow the forums so it's a little bit more work . but they are working on making that easier)

to isntall something , you can use a graphical manager wich downloads and installs everything automatically . you also receive updates to your system automaticaly .

bottom line is , Ubuntu is a lot more user friendly than Windows .

But , and this is most peoples real problem , it's not windows . and it never should be .

You will only like Linux if you want to try a new OS , not if you are looking for a free clone of Windows .

It won't be as popular as Windows , because people only want Windows like stuff . and linux will never be exactly that way.

[The Hunter]

I see some folks dont get my point. It is a totally different enviroment, and many people want/need a lot of handholding during installs.