PDA

View Full Version : do u think russia is right in doing this to ukraine



crackerjacker
December 29th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Ukraine rejects Moscow gas loan offerViktor Yushchenko, president of Ukraine, on Thursday night rejected an offer of a $3.6bn loan from Russia to pay for a big increase in gas prices by Gazprom, the Russian energy company.


President Vladimir Putin had earlier said Moscow was ready to extend a loan to Ukraine in an attempt to resolve a damaging dispute three days before a Russian deadline to turn off gas supplies to Ukraine.

“We are very grateful for the proposed large credits, but Ukraine does not need them,” Mr Yushchenko said, according to Reuters. “Ukraine will pay with its own money at a price set in a comprehensible, objective fashion.”

Russia's demand that Ukraine should pay nearly five times more for Russian gas is part of a wider move by Moscow to end subsidised supplies to former Soviet republics and has provoked the biggest rift between the two neighbours since last year's “Orange Revolution” in Kiev.

That brought to power Mr Yushchenko, who has turned Ukraine's gaze towards the European Union and Nato and wrenched it out of Russia's orbit.

The dispute will threaten gas shortages in western Europe, if Russia carries out a threat to reduce the gas it pumps into the massive export pipeline that crosses Ukraine from January 1, and Ukraine continues taking out gas for its own needs.

By doing so, however, Russia would risk damaging its claim to be a reliable energy supplier, just as it takes over the presidency of the Group of Eight industrialised nations with energy security as a main theme.

The European Commission said on Thursday the reliability of Russian supplies was “of the highest priority” and it was watching the Russian-Ukrainian dispute closely.

Mr Putin, in televised remarks, told Ivan Plachkov, Ukraine's energy minister, that Russia was prepared to lend “a huge sum” to Kiev to ease the shift to market prices.

“We are ready to provide a loan on commercial conditions directly to [Ukraine's national gas company] under the guarantee of one of the international banks, European or American,” the Russian president said.

Mr Putin added that subsidised gas supplies had been acceptable while Russia and Ukraine were part of a planned economy but no longer reflected economic realities. Russia was not prepared to subsidise Ukrainian businesses or foreign companies on Ukrainian soil.

Mr Yushchenko has said Ukraine is ready to move to market prices over a period of years. But he said yesterday Kiev would “never accept” the price of $220-$230 per 1,000 cubic metres Russia is demanding for next year, up from $50 this year. “This price is a provocation,” Itar-Tass news agency quoted him as saying.

Gazprom, Russia's natural gas monopoly, earlier said it had signed a deal to buy more gas from Turkmenistan, second-biggest producer among the former Soviet republics, by more than 50 per cent to 30bn cu m next year.

Analysts said that would leave less spare Turkmen gas available to Ukraine to cover any reduction in Russian supplies. Ukraine, which uses about 80bn cu m of gas annually, buys 25bn cu m from Russia and 36bn cu m from Turkmenistan, which all flows through Gazprom's pipelines.

But Ukraine said it already had a contract with Turkmenistan to buy 40bn cu m of gas next year.
source

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/02a28a74-7894-11da-a356-0000779e2340.html

cheapprick
December 29th, 2005, 04:02 PM
Russia shouldn't be expected to subsidise Ukranian gas prices. Ukraine should suck it up.

mcovey
December 30th, 2005, 12:07 PM
Russia shouldn't be expected to subsidise Ukranian gas prices. Ukraine should suck it up.
very true.

I wish more people thought this way about our own government. Stop subsidizing and taking over the private sector (schools, mail, healthcare, retirement plans, etc.)

Just let the people choose how to spend their own money, don't tax the hell out of them and spend it on what 51% think is OK.

cheapprick
December 30th, 2005, 05:13 PM
I actually disagree with you there.

I think a gov't has a responsibility to make sure its populace is looked after in those examples.

mcovey
December 30th, 2005, 10:33 PM
I actually disagree with you there.

I think a gov't has a responsibility to make sure its populace is looked after in those examples.
See.. I think they don't have a responsibility because it's not MY responsibility to look after people. And how does a government pay for all that, with a big chunk of MY money. There is no compelling reason for me not to just not pay any taxes, and pay for my own damn things. The populace has it's own responsilbility to look after itself, just as I do for myself, myself and nobody else.

I see you're Canadian though, so you're probably a bit more used to the government running your life for you and deciding what you do than I am.

cheapprick
December 30th, 2005, 11:03 PM
lol. An American should never claim another country's citizenry is being told what to do.

Thanks to my gov't a guy can go from a family that grosses 12k a year in childhood to law school as an adult.

the great one
December 31st, 2005, 01:02 AM
See.. I think they don't have a responsibility because it's not MY responsibility to look after people. And how does a government pay for all that, with a big chunk of MY money. There is no compelling reason for me not to just not pay any taxes, and pay for my own damn things. The populace has it's own responsilbility to look after itself, just as I do for myself, myself and nobody else.

I see you're Canadian though, so you're probably a bit more used to the government running your life for you and deciding what you do than I am.


LMFAO!And you don't think your government decides what's best for you?Get real!!!

lifehacker
January 1st, 2006, 05:55 PM
Let me explain the situation for those who are not fully aware of it, or at least how I see it. Ukraine has been trying for years to break free from under the Russian shadow which has been dominating their country even though the Soviet Union is gone. Earlier Ukraine made an attempt to join the UN to try to become more independant from Russia. This attempt was doomed from the very beggining and was an incredibly dumb thing to do. Russia being the largest gas provider in the world and the main provider of gas for all European nations immediatly started raising Ukranian gas prices. As Russia kept threating to raise the gas prices stating that it was in the interest of the Russian economy, the prices they wanted Ukraine to pay became much larger than any of the other European gas clients Russia has. Eventually Russia's Putin ordered the prices raised so high that Ukraine is unable to pay. Russia then not to be seen as starting a conflict by other nations offered Ukraine a loan of money to pay for the new high gas prices. Ukraine rejected the offer. Another problem Ukraine is facing is that other nations will not come to its aid because of the Russian gas monopoly. So Russia now stopped pumping gas to Ukraine and left the whole country without any gas....