burning Audio CDs - what max. speed?

[d.crowley]

I am going to get myself a new LiteOn 48x CD-RW drive, and I was wondering at what maximum burning-speed you still achieve perfect quality with audio CDs... I am using Memorex 40x-CDRs.

Currently, I record at 8x speed, but of course I'd like to switch to something >24x to speed up the process of burning ~300 audio CDs...

any experiences / opinions?

[lion7718]

You should stay at a slow speed, to avoid getting a coaster.

[notbob]

go as fast as you can, if you get coasters or hear clicks, go slower--work backwards until you get to the point where they work best for you and your computer

[DiddlySquat]

I just got a Lite-On 48x12x48x really cheap. So far its worked great. I only made 2 coasters (but that was because of the disks i was using). The max speed for most CDR disks are 32x but now they have came out with 48x CDR's. It rocks. Even if you cant burn at 48x you can still make a full CD in under 5 min. :cross

[AnimeDood]

Originally posted by DiddlySquat
Even if you cant burn at 48x you can still make a full CD in under 5 min. :cross
i burn a full cd in under 5 mintues all the time with my 16x.

[tree hugging hippie crap]

i got a cheap 40x12x48 burner, and the max i burn audio cd's is 16x. i figure if i'm in such a hurry that i cant wait 5 minutes to burn a cd full of free music then why bother downloading mp3's. i burn my data discs on crappy cd's at 40x. i dont care if they turn to coasters really. heck of a deal buying 50 cd's, sending in upc code, and the company reimburses ya. go officemax. by the way, why do retailers wanna give me a 4 year warranty on a piece-of-sht cd burner? i said, "15 dollars, heck ya. i'll break it in 2 years i promise". by then there will be like 180x burners or some crap.

[notbob]

at 24x on my 2ghz computer i can burn one in 1.5 minues

[CCSDUDE]

<<<<< Perfection freak, I burn at 8x no more then 8x.....an most of the time it's 4x

Burn at 16x if your in a major hurry but stick to 8x it's a good deep burn an scratchs won't kill the CD really fast like with 16x+



Peace all, Later.

[Power Penguin]

CCDude, I didn't know the burners burnt at different depths depending on what speed you burn at! Interesting.

[gorphon]

its very interesting... can you show us where you found that ccsdude?
Im sure most all of you know about the diminishing returns you get as you increase speeds... its much like that extra gigabyte of ram that you'll never ever use because of constraints placed on other bits and bobs in that box with all the whirring noises coming out...
I bought myself a pacific digital 32x12x48 with which I burn at 24x speed regularly and never once have I made a coaster... except on those occasions that I am running too much in the background and freeze up this old POS I got here. additionally, it will overburn and will except 90 and 99 minute discs, but only burn these at 8x.

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by gorphon
its very interesting... can you show us where you found that ccsdude?
Im sure most all of you know about the diminishing returns you get as you increase speeds... its much like that extra gigabyte of ram that you'll never ever use because of constraints placed on other bits and bobs in that box with all the whirring noises coming out...
I bought myself a pacific digital 32x12x48 with which I burn at 24x speed regularly and never once have I made a coaster... except on those occasions that I am running too much in the background and freeze up this old POS I got here. additionally, it will overburn and will except 90 and 99 minute discs, but only burn these at 8x.




Think about how a CDR is created......an burn 1 disk at 24x-32x an one at 4x-8x you'll see the difference.


Slower speed means the laser hit's the spot longer so it "cooks the disk more" in a manner of speaking (a dumb manner but a manner none the less). They try to get the same burn by upping the lasers power but it rarely works as planned - depending on the media you use. You can end up with a CD that gets dust on it an can't be read or a disk that can be danced on an still read.....it all depends on the media....yada yada yada


The laser reflects off the disk an reads 0 or 1 - indent or not on a normal stamped CD - so the darker the 0 or 1 is the better it can read even with major scratchs. Slower burn darker 1's darker 1's mean better read's better reads mean more reliable CD's ....... it's not about the speed at which your PC can kick out the info to the buffer an all that shit. It's about the end product. Rather have a CD that'll last me atleast 6 months then a shitty CD that's going to be a skipping coaster within a week or 2 of use....so I'll burn my disks slow




Peace all, Later

[gorphon]

the logic is certainly sound, very interesting man... I always wondered why some of my discs could handle me, a pen knife, and 24 hours worth of frustration and others were finished after spending a day outside of acase... and now I have an answer. very cool man...

[CCSDUDE]

Shit....in my rush I left out some shit....I'm a dumb fuck LOL

Ok well, it also depends on the speed rating on the media...if you try an take one of those "high speed" 32x disks that are strictly meant for 32x drives an burn it at like 8x you'll kill the disc.....Lost some CDRW's that way it lit. over burns the disk in a bad way.....the whole disc becomes all 1's LOL if you look at it up close nothing reflects anymore.....the dye in them is a lot more sensitive to the laser...yada yada yada LOL


Also the way I said what I said was off.....LOL 0 is untouched so it doesn't burn that bit 1 would be burned an changed to dark. 1 an 0 on an off blah blah blah


Anyway I majorly suck at explaining shit so check this link out....

http://www.cdrfaq.org/


I didn't get what I've been saying from there I read up on it in a shit load of books I picked up on sale. $4.99 for what once was $60+ suits me just fine.

But anyways enjoy the faq




Peace all, Later

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by Will Rae
CCDude, I didn't know the burners burnt at different depths depending on what speed you burn at! Interesting.


LOL By deep I meant deep in color.....good sarcasam though :shy

[notbob]

nope krell is right--its all total fucking bullshit

a laser doesn't write like a pencil--darker if you push harder--it shoots a beam with precision at whatever its rated maximum is

now if you tried to burn at 16x on a 4x burner, your logic would work, of course that doesn't work, so the point is moot

[Rickio]

when you buy your burner, get out the manual and read what that manufacturer recommends for your model.

From what I have read media is not as glitch free beyon 24x , that is fault of media and not burner.
Just buy quality media and your likely have no problems.

Peace!

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by notbob
nope krell is right--its all total fucking bullshit

a laser doesn't write like a pencil--darker if you push harder--it shoots a beam with precision at whatever its rated maximum is

now if you tried to burn at 16x on a 4x burner, your logic would work, of course that doesn't work, so the point is moot

Ok.....for anyone who thinks this is bullshit....get you head checked out....

You have a disk.....it has dye in it....the dye changes from transparent to opaque depending on the laser hitting it or not.......1 or 0 blah blah blah.....

No disk is perfect....EVER.....so some media works better at a slower speed. So that one 1 on the disk is getting hit by the laser LONGER at slower speeds since the disk is spinning at a slower RPM. An that insures the 1's are written totally. You CAN get a weak burn if you use shitty media an burn it to fast since what it's writing isn't getting exposed to the laser long enough. That's why when you burn a disk at oh say 16x a few scratches can do just as much damage as a shitload of them on a disk burned at a slower speed. In short the info on this disk is clearer to the reading laser when it's burned slower....

Believe it or not...I really don't give a shit if you do or don't LOL try it if you want....

BTW NotBob......by your logic if you burned a disk at 4x on a 32x CDRW drive your disk would be a coaster in no time.....but that's not how it works........the laser changes its power level based on what speed you select. If that didn't matter don't you think you could burn at 1x 2x 3x 4x all the way up in place of just 4 8 12 16 ect. It's a combo of the drive motor being able to run at that exact speed an the lasers power......you can't get the drive motor to run constantly at a certain speed so the whole 2x 4x 8x shit is like giving leeway plus it's cheeper to make a laser that isn't THAT exact in what it does. An FYI some places sell faster writers with the firmware set for a slower speed....but in reality it's a faster drive (they do this because it's cheeper to make 1 model an change firmware rather then making an testing 5 different models) so you MAY be able to burn at 8x on a 4x drive an maybe 16x on a 12x drive. Provided you get the right firmware for the drive. An yes a laser does write like a pencil......the longer you hold a laser on something the more it heats up/burns/changes. An do explain how you come up with the concept that by my logic a 4x burner can burn a disk at 16x......I'd like to hear it.


An I'll say this one last damn time! When you burn the disk what the laser burns turns dark/black/whatever an it can't reflect the shit behind it....thus making a pattern of reflect don't reflect ect ect ect. Which lays out the unburned spots to be read by the laser on a CD reader...... in effect it creates a 2d version of what a stamped CD is....so the stronger the burn the clearer the separation between reflect no reflect are.....which means it has an easier time of it even when it's scratched....


Nuff said.....



Peace all, Later

[Sephiroth]

Cd Burning speeds depend on two things the speed of the cd recorder and the speed supported by the media(cd-r or cd-rw) If you try burning a cd faster than that cd supports then it might work but in most cases it would nt burn right. If you burn at or below(although i dunno why unless your burner cant go faster) then the cd will burn perfectly fine.

When i do burn cds i do it at 16x since that is as fast as my cds support and they have all burned fune.

Speed is just the rate that data is burned.. If you burn at a high speed then the laser would burn more powerful than at slow speed also the cd-r is handled to be burned at higher speeds. If it was based on how long the laser was exposed then any cd burner should be able to burn at any speed which is not the case.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

ive been burning discs at max speed (24x) ever since i got my burner, because i didnt know any better. ive burned i guess about 200 discs, and had maybe about 10 coasters, but each one could be put down to something stupid i did , trying to burn an unsupported format etc rather than trying to burn too fast. the music sounds just fine too, and i aint had a problem with any of my other discs.

[Power Penguin]

I believe what CCSDude said. I wasn't using sarcasm earlier by the way, I'm just dumb.

When you look at chemical reactions, like a candle burning, it is more pronounced if you leave it longer. Chemistry takes time, we all remember shit burning up in those dishes at school, don't we?

What I have learnt from this is not to burn 24 media at 4 or 8, as it could "overbook" the disk?

Likewise, I've learnt that if you put 4 media to burn at 24, speed it's just not going to take, as the media is too slow to react.

[Power Penguin]

What your saying though, is that a 4* will last longer than a 24*?

If your using 24* media, won't it just "overcook" at 4.

From what you've said, I'll take the reading on the disk. If however I get two quoted speeds: "32, and 24 compatible" then you've gotta assume that 24 will give a better result!

Perhaps 4 and 24 were too extreme i.e. too far apart.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Originally posted by Krell
If you think I need MY head checked . . . all the better for you.

If you want dispute my 30 years in physics and as an Electronics design engineer, so be it. So I had Melles Griot overnight me their latest catalogues back in the 80's and 90's, while you were watching Sesame Street, what can you care about it?

Speaking to the Chief Design Engineer for Sony America regarding the use of the Infrarded laser diodes used in CD Players, as it would be run thru a columnated lens assembly to increase breadth and reduce intensity doesn't get me a cup of coffee.

My knowledge of propogation times, slew rates, jitter, D/A conversion, will never realistically get me laid.

I have written more white papers than books or articles many of you have read.

( btw sephiroth, thx for that patient and accurate explanation )
So, CCSDUDE . . . please stop trying to convince us that you know about the (holds fingers in air) " laser " . . . . you are a lay person, and an outside looking in.

show off :p

[Power Penguin]

OK Krell, who do I believe, CCSDude who has put something forward, or you?

What is your theory anyway?

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Originally posted by Will Rae
OK Krell, who do I believe, CCSDude who has put something forward, or you?

What is your theory anyway?

like krell i dont trust theories that i havent seen the practical justification for. im gonna keep burning at max speed, not because i think CCS is wrong but because it works for me.

I believe CCS when he says he read up on this, but books can often be misleading or just plain wrong (believe me, as a teacher ive had plenty experience of unbelievable errors in textbooks) .

i go with krell, if only because i wouldnt have the nerve to question those credentials lol

[Power Penguin]

Here's what happens when you have to remove a half-on label from a cheap 30c/20p CDR...

[Power Penguin]

Those are my frilly knickers underneath, there.

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Cd Burning speeds depend on two things the speed of the cd recorder and the speed supported by the media(cd-r or cd-rw) If you try burning a cd faster than that cd supports then it might work but in most cases it would nt burn right. If you burn at or below(although i dunno why unless your burner cant go faster) then the cd will burn perfectly fine.

When i do burn cds i do it at 16x since that is as fast as my cds support and they have all burned fune.

Speed is just the rate that data is burned.. If you burn at a high speed then the laser would burn more powerful than at slow speed also the cd-r is handled to be burned at higher speeds. If it was based on how long the laser was exposed then any cd burner should be able to burn at any speed which is not the case.



I never said it was based on that, the dye can only change so much so it's not like you can speed up how fast the chemical reaction takes. That's all I have to say , think whatever you want but I know what I'm talking about....I've seen it an done it you can't change the fact that for some people burning at a slower speed makes a better disk (an I'm not talking about hardware or CPU speed problems just the finished disk being better). Go burn them side by side 8x an 16 or 24x then compare them....it's obvious even to the naked eye that the slower burned disk has a cleaner burn on it an the dye has changed slightly more then it has in the 24x burn. It's an all around better disk an it'll last longer in the sense that each bit has been burned as much as it can be theres no one bit got half way done so it's slightly opaque an can still reflect.



Krell: Hmmm lets see....in "laymans" terms burning a disk at 1x seems a lot smarter then burning one at 32x considering the fact that the size of each bit in the disk is extremly small....so why - in laymans terms - in gods fucking name would you wish to burn the disk faster when you know for a fact that what it's doing needs to be on the ball with little room for mistakes. As for the book, I said books.....not book. I have a shit load of time on my hands when I'm at work so I read my ass off...many books on many subjects. While it's true that some books can get the facts wrong how can you say that when 5 books all say the same thing. An many "techie" buds agree an have found it to be true that a slower burn does make a better disk. Not because of the system cranking out the data or the cpu changing the mp3 into wav on the fly but because the actual disk (the brand does't really matter its the burn on the disk is IMHO) is better it's clearer to the cd read laser when its burned slower because each bit was fully changed from transparent to opaque without question....I doubt you can say that for most highspeed drives....considering they change speeds while writing to get to that 32x mark.....you can even see it! One part of a 32x written disk is dark another is a tad lighter then it goes dark again......in laymans terms it's obvious that a slower burn makes a better disk to the naked eye an in real world situations......so yall do whatever you want but i'll stick to waiting 20-40 minutes for a disk......
BTW I never watched that shitty show as a child.....so what is your theory? Or fact or whatever you wish to call it. Give some details on exactly what you mean. Since what you said drifted towards PC preformance rather then the actual specs of a CDR disk being burned an changed.....what do you have to add/say about that? I'd like to hear it - no sarcasm here........so do tell.

Rocket 'sky-in-tist'? who me? NO NO!

Also, how many of you burn backups at 24x?

Will: Damn what brand of disk is that? Never had that happen or was able to get the layers apart. As for the disk speeds, I really don't bother looking since they all work at slower speeds - the disk I fried while burning at a slower speed was a CDRW (one rated for 32x an nothing less LOL) not CDR never had a problem with CDR. Never really liked CDRW LOL Rather spend 2 cents on a CDR an know it'll never be written over then 2 bucks for CDRW which can be formated.....




Anywayz I'll stick to my way of doing things yall stick to yours.





Peace all, Later

[jona100]

"Slower speed means the laser hit's the spot longer so it "cooks the disk more" in a manner of speaking" no offence but that is absolute crap!, so what you are saying is that faster speeds burns means the data is less likely to stay burnt in the disk and somehow less likely to dissapear or move elsewhere!, deteriated play on disks is variable to the quality of the blank cd you are burning onto. Once the data is burnt in, its in for life!, deteriated play will only occur on cheapo disks which tend to flake the silver and therfore the data off.

I have burnt a tower records worth of audio cd-r's at 40x with not a single coaster and they always played perfectly.

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by jona100
"Slower speed means the laser hit's the spot longer so it "cooks the disk more" in a manner of speaking" no offence but that is absolute crap!, so what you are saying is that faster speeds burns means the data is less likely to stay burnt in the disk and somehow less likely to dissapear or move elsewhere!, deteriated play on disks is variable to the quality of the blank cd you are burning onto. Once the data is burnt in, its in for life!, deteriated play will only occur on cheapo disks which tend to flake the silver and therfore the data off.

I have burnt a tower records worth of audio cd-r's at 40x with not a single coaster and they always played perfectly.

What I said was a stupid play on words.....what I meant was it changes the spots it needs to change in a manner that makes them clearer to the read laser on a CD player or a CDROM - read my last 2 posts before this one......an for the last freakin time! I'm NOT talking about coasters or how fast a system can burn a disk! I'm talking about how reliable that disk will be in the future....an HMMMMM I didn't know CDR disks were burnt for life......an seriosuly stop putting words in my mouth.....I didn't say the data wouldn't stay there....now your just making shit up. What I said was when you burn at a slower speed the laser gets a chance to fully change the dye from transparent to opaque thus making that CD a lot clearer an easier to read (from the CD drives POV). I didn't say that data would just go away. God some people......also I find some cheepo disks to be better in some ways to high priced shit....

[Power Penguin]

It's a "White Label". "Limited Edition" no less (because they all spontaneously self combust on the factory shelf, probably)

Manufactured by Prodisc. "Oh, of course, Prodisc" you say noddingly...

"Who?".

CENSORED FAILED HUMOR TEST IGNORE PREVIOUS WORDS

Small Print :

Ah! Leah is here and high standards of humor are now required. I have a thread devoted to me, and I'm embarrassed.

All potential posts have to be approved by Comedy Central, and blessed with the spittle of a famous comedian, with at least one 1/2 hour TV show to his name.

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by Krell
ok, this is the LAST time I will say this . . .there is no dark . . darker . . . darkest . . . ohhhh look mommy . . this one is only 1/2 baked. . .

There is " hit " and there is " not hit " those are your 2 choices. I have already addressed where the weakneses are in burning, everyone else gets it.

In terms of the speed in which the laser changes the substrate, your 32X is SO freakin slow . . . . its like measuring in eons.

Burn as fast as your system can do successfuly, thats it.

Everything is analog........even a CDRW drive! So that hit or miss shit is true but it's not exact......it's true that its either on or off - black or can reflect - but each bit on the disk isn't exactly the same! So one bit may darken more then another if you burn at a slower speed it may even it out an get them all fully blocked out.....

That's the LAST thing I'm going to say on this - burn at whatever speed you want, I'll stick to slow an steady.....BTW most PC's can burn at 32x+ just fine you don't even need to be in the 1ghz range to burn that fast......

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by Will Rae
It's a "White Label". "Limited Edition" no less (because they all spontaneously self combust on the factory shelf, probably)

Manufactured by ProDisc. "Oh, of course, Prodisc" you say noddingly, "Err...Who?", you add.


Cheepest I've seen - OfficeMax disks an comp usa....TRASH best cheepo disks I've used were white disk 100 pak Verbatim 80min disks.....never heard of prodisc LOL

[gorphon]

never fear! I, for one, have little doubt that you are up to the task.
and krell, what does it mean when my disks burn a kinda deep flourescent mauve color? should I be worried?

[PowerMan57two]

my burner is 24x.... and I record stuff at top speed.. 24x thats 3,600KB/sec... and everything turns out fine for me.. all my burned tuff turns out perfect only takes like 3minutes to burn the cd

[mr1337pants]

I haven't had my "high speed burner" for more than two years yet so I can't comment on longevity of discs burned at different speeds, but I have detected no difference in redbook audio quality when burned at 1X, 4X, 8X, and 16X. My finicky car CD deck is more sensitive to differences in media quality than rate at which the disc was burned.

So I'll bookmark this thread and check back in a few years and report whether the CDs still play (damn I hope so) :cross