Browser Speed Comparisons

[g-smooth2k]

Source: DSL Reports (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/60244)

Slashdot points to an independent browser speed comparison that compares CSS rendering, cold and warm starts, table rendering, script execution, as well as multiple image display times. The result? Opera is the fastest browser for Windows. Firefox and IE are similar, though the former gets the edge on security.

Source: How to Create (http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html)

What is this about?
There is a speed war on the web. Browsers compete on many fronts; security, standards support, features and speed. Most people are aware of which major browser fails on three of these, but one of them is still open for grabs. Speed.

Many organisations and users try to claim that their browser is the fastest. The Opera site claims that Opera is The Fastest Browser on Earth!. The Mozilla site claims that Firefox 1.0 empowers you to browse faster (faster than what?). Mozilla itself is quoted as being an alternative to Microsoft IE and it's faster to boot. Apple's Safari pages claim that Safari loads pages more quickly than any other Mac web browser (although they failed to show any results for Opera, and their charts fail to show results for pages that contain images). Internet Explorer users often claim that they use it because of its speed, as the alternatives take longer to start and load pages.

Opera and Firefox users are quite vocal on the subject, but none of them can actually show any research to back up their statements, ususally just saying "X takes way longer than Y to start" or "my friend uses X and it is much slower on his computer than Y is on mine". Those that did try more than one usually say "X just felt faster than Y when I tried them" (although this may refer to familiarity with the individual user interface - something that I do not cover here). I have even heard people comparing Firefox and Opera, then realised they were referring to Opera 6 (even though historically, Opera 6 is about equivalent to Netscape 4), something that was replaced with a completely new engine long before Firefox even existed.

Well, I've had enough of these unfounded arguments. I present my research. This is an honest, unbiased view (or as unbiased as I can be). Unlike most people, I not only test all the browsers, I test them all on the same computer as each other - grouped into Linux, Mac and Windows (using the same or equivalent hardware for each). This, I hope, gives an accurate comparison, not only of the browsers compared with each other, but for those that work on multiple platforms, it also gives a fairly accurate comparison of the different optimisations for each platform.

Summarise
So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems.

On Mac OS 9, no single browser stands out as the fastest. In fact, my condolences to anyone who has to use one of them, they all perform badly.

These results are drawn from my tests as shown above, and are confirmed by my personal use. Please do not send me hate mail saying I have insulted your browser or whatever. If you get different results, try doing what I did. Perform a set of tests like these that cover the major areas of use. Make sure you do it unbiased, cross platform, using the same or equivalent spec on each (make sure you use the same amount of RAM in each). Once you are done, don't tell me about it. Publish your own results, as I have done, with a discussion of why you did each test and what it represents. Facts and figures are everything. Oh, and don't just say "I couldn't get it to install so I didn't bother" - you have no idea how much work I put into getting all these browsers to install on these operating systems (as my wife and the IRC community would be able to testify to). If you can't get it to install, then that is your problem, it says nothing about speed, and simply makes your results incomplete.

[Rajarius]

Saw this. Opera, even though it IS the fastest (admit it), is not as secure or compatible as Firefox. I'm not really looking for speed anymore. Saving an extra 2 seconds is not worth it if I am constantly under attack by malware or whatever.

[Betamax]

All Opera really needs is some Ad-block type function and a better in-page search function, and maybe some plug-in support for weather reports etc. The tabs work much better than in Firefoxand it has M2, the built in e-mail client. I'll wait for the next Opera before I switch back.

///

[Stownplayer]

Get a good firewall and all your excuses not to use opera are useless. Opera does block the majority of pop-ups and the in page search function is powerful. What are you talking about "a better in-page search function". CTRL F is all you have to do. Opera is very secure. No browser is perfect and firefox has many flaws also. Firefox and opera are head to head on security but opera kicks ass in speed, ease of use, and integrated email client.

Firefox takes too many add ons and configuration changes before it can even come close to running like opera. Opera pretty much runs perfect out of the box, although you probably want to change the skin and views to your preference.

[shawners]

IF you could COMPLETELY REMOVE I E From being in the interface in windows... AND Have firefox installed as a factory browser. It be merged into it and can operate just as fast with no ad windows displaying.. YET they havent seen what I E can do when you have spyware that attaches to the browser and hijacks it all the time.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Firefox is frankly, lame. The gecko engine is still very much third rate, the technology being buggier and slower than other browsers and rendering many pages in an inferior way.

Opera isn't supported by many websites so opera users will need to keep returning to IE to view pages properly.

Internet Explorer is by far the most superior browser which will view absolutely any web page and because the code is designed to work along with windows it is far faster and smoother with a way shorter loading time.

By all means, try the rest - but you should always come back to the best.

[Stownplayer]

never thought i'd hear anyone other than bill gates say that ie is the best. JESUS!!! By the way, i only use ie for a couple of sites. Opera opens the rest just fine. IF webmasters would stop making pages so they can only be viewed in ie then there would be no problems in the first place. Opera is the best. Besides, you many factors that make a browser the best not just how many pages it can open successfully.

[mfgbypooter]

I have firefox installed but rarely use it for precisely the reasons you mention, grab. Instead I mainly use Avant Browser, which is an IE shell that offers the tabbed browsing and has ad block etc. On my machine it loads and runs faster than firefox or bare bones IE. You don't have to fuck with all that plugin bullshit of firefox either. I never have a pop up or pop under, and I also keep my hosts file up to date so I never see 99.9% of any ads I don't want to see. The only time I really ever run IE is to use windows update for patches etc. Firefox to me is waaaay overated. Firefox & Opera you still have to fall back on IE for some pages. For my money and ease of use, I'll stick with Avant. If anyone is interested check it out.

http://www.avantbrowser.com/


.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Apps like avant, slimbrowser, myIE etc aren't really browsers - they are just skins for Internet Explorer.

[infringer]

Used Opera Used Firefox but for some odd reason I still like IE the best...

-infringer-

[Betamax]

Get a good firewall and all your excuses not to use opera are useless. Opera does block the majority of pop-ups and the in page search function is powerful. What are you talking about "a better in-page search function". CTRL F is all you have to do. Opera is very secure. No browser is perfect and firefox has many flaws also. Firefox and opera are head to head on security but opera kicks ass in speed, ease of use, and integrated email client.

Firefox takes too many add ons and configuration changes before it can even come close to running like opera. Opera pretty much runs perfect out of the box, although you probably want to change the skin and views to your preference.

Stownplayer,

The page search function in Firefox is much better because you don't have to type in the whole word and press enter before it tells you that the word you typed is not on the page. For example, if you where to search this page for 'supercalifragilisticexpelidocious', you would only have to type 2,3 or 4 letters before Firefos would tell you that the word isn't on the page whereas in Opera you'd have to type in the whole word and press enter before you could confirm whether or not the word was on the page.

I don't think you know what Ad-block is. Ad-block is not a pop-up stopper (this is automatic in Firefox) but rather a tool which allows you to block a wide variety of ads; all types of banner ads, annoying animated-gif avatars, flash ads, basically everything. It makes browsing so much more pleasant beacause pages are render in less space, are less distracting and less bandwidth is consumed. There is something similar which, called Ad-muncher, which will block ads in all your browsers, but I'm not that experienced with it.

That all said, there is a lot that I still like about Opera. Such as the z/x forward/back g to toggle images, the option to block all animated gifs, functional tabs ( as opposed to Firefox tabs, which are barely functional even with TBP).

Hope I'm not forgetting anything.

:

[Abyss00]

...The gecko engine is still very much third rate, the technology being buggier and slower than other browsers and rendering many pages in an inferior way.
...
Internet Explorer is by far the most superior browser which will view absolutely any web page and because the code is designed to work along with windows it is far faster and smoother with a way shorter loading time. ...
grab_grab_the_haddock your post seems to be a couple of years out of date.


Used Opera Used Firefox but for some odd reason I still like IE the best...

-infringer-
My friend had this problem too. He went to the doctor to find out what was wrong with him. Seems he was addicted to viruses and popups. Poor guy just didn't feel like he was getting the whole web browsing eXPerience without them.

[Betamax]

It must be said that, in terms of speed, Firefox + Ad-block absolutely kills both IE and Opera, so if your primary interest is speed than Firefox + Ad-block is the way to go.

>

[muffenme]

:fire

I use IE, Netscape, Firefox, and Opera and for most part they are all good browsers. IE is good as long as activex and scripts aren't enable or as less activex controls is disable. I use both Firefox and Opera as my main browser.

:hole

[g-smooth2k]

IE rendering engine based Browsers
Crazy Browser (http://www.crazybrowser.com/) is pretty good a browser that uses the IE rendering engine.
What is Crazy Browser?
Crazy Browser is a 100% real free freeware.
It is fully multithreaded and it means that you can open several web pages simultaneously in one session.
It is customizable, providing options for changing the way Crazy Browser looks and operates.
How can I see another language on the Crazy Browser screen?
From the View menu select Languages, and then choose the language you'd like to use.
Don't see your language on the list? Click here (http://www.crazybrowser.com/translations.htm).
Is Crazy Browser spyware?
Crazy Browser is Freeware, not adware or spyware!
Crazy Browser will never send any data to us!
How to make Crazy Browser my default browser?
On the Tools menu, click Default Browser -> Crazy Browser.
Outlook Opens a Hyperlink in Internet Explorer even though Crazy Browser is my default browser.
It's a bug of Microsoft Outlook 2000 or IE 5.5, for more information click here (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q269093).
What is your business model?
This is a non-commercial product. It doesn't bring me any profit.

Tips
Crazy Browser is not IE plug-in or add-on,
it just uses IE rendering engine to render the Web pages.
Programming is not so easy, I have been developing Crazy Browser for two years.
Crazy Browser doesn't support IE plug-ins, e.g. Google toolbar.
Most IE plug-ins work with a single Webbrowser/IE only,
but CB can open several web pages simultaneously,
it's impossible to make these plug-ins work correctly with CB.
But you can type the information you want to find in the address bar,
then press Alt + Enter to do a Google search.
There is no small icon option.
There is no static name.
There is no mailing list.
There is no forum.
Grey color means the URL can't work offline.

MyIE2 (http://www.myie2.com/) and Maxthon (http://www.maxthon.com/) are good browsers that are popular or is downloaded and used by many users.
Also MyIE2 and Maxthon is based on the IE engine.

Avant Browser (http://www.avantbrowser.com/) is another browser that is really popular and it is based on the IE rendering engine.
What is Avant Browser?
Avant Browser can be best described as a custom web browser application.
Avant Browser is a standalone application designed to expand services provided by Microsoft Internet Explorer.
Is Avant Browser spyware?
No, Avant Browser is not spyware.
Avant Browser does not collect any information from users.
Is Avant Browser free?
Yes, Avant Browser is absolutely free!
Avant Browser is freeware.
You can use it for free, no registration is required, and there are NO limitations whatsoever.
However, if you wish to express your appreciation for the time and resources
I've expended developing and supporting it over the years, I do accept and appreciate monetary donations.
If you wish to make a donation, please click here (http://www.avantbrowser.com/donate.html). Your support will keep Avant Browser alive and powerful.
Does Avant Browser come with a uninstaller? Do I need to uninstall the old copy before I install a new version?
Yes, Avant Browser comes with an uninstaller.
It's suggested to uninstall the old copy and reboot your computer before installing a new version.
Does Avant Browser modify settings of Internet Explorer?
The end-user is able to use Avant Browser to modify the home page and bookmarks of Internet Explorer.
But Avant Browser doesn't modify other settings of Internet Explorer,
though there are internet settings that may be modified such as the browser identification string.
Is Avant Browser a secure browser?
Yes, Avant Browser is secure.
Since it's based on Internet Explorer, Avant Browser is as secure as Internet Explorer.
Avant Browser supports all SSL secured websites.
Avant Browser's encryption length is the same as Internet Explorer's.
Why can I not access backward/forward dropdown menus?
To enable history backward/forward dropdown menus, Internet Explorer 5.5 or higher version should be installed.
Why does Outlook Express always open links in Internet Explorer?
This is a bug of Outlook Express.
Please upgrade Outlook Express to version 6.0.
How does Avant Browser work?
Based on services provided by Microsoft Internet Explorer, Avant Browser renders and navigates HTML.
How does Avant Browser improve Internet browsing?
Avant Browser is an Application built with MDI (Multiple-Document-Interface) technology.
With MDI technology, fewer system resources are used,
web page loading is faster, and all opened pages can be easily controlled at user's pleasure.
What is the Integrated Search Engine?
Avant Browser is integrated with Yahoo/Google, the most powerful search engine in the world.
User can search the internet with Avant Browser directly, without opening Yahoo/Google's homepage.
What is the system requirements for Avant Browser?
You will need a Pentium 166 PC or higher, 16MB RAM or more.
The operating system should be Windows 95, Windows NT, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows ME or Windows XP.
For Windows 95 systems, IE 5.5 or higher version should be installed.
For Windows NT systems, Service Pack 6 and IE 5.5 should be installed, and IE 6.0 are recommended.

For ideal performance:
A user should have at least Windows 98 and Internet Explorer 6.0 installed, and Windows 2000 installed if at all possible.

Tested System:
AMD K6 400 / 64 Ram / Windows 95 / Internet Explorer 5.5
Pentium II 333 / 64M Ram / Windows NT + Service Pack 6 / Internet Explorer 4.01
Celeron 500 / 128 Ram / Windows 98 / Internet Explorer 5
Celeron 1.7G / 128 Ram / Windows 2000 / Internet Explorer 5.5
AMD K7 800 / 256 Ram / Windows XP Home Edition / Internet Explorer 6
Pentium-4 2.4G / 512 Ram / Windows XP Professinal + Service Pack 1 / Internet Explorer 6 SP1
I have more questions - whom should I write to?
Please send your additional questions to author@avantbrowser.com .

.

[FrozenShadow23]

IE supports some shitty made up CSS and doesn't support all the real CSS that Firefox does. IE doesn't have support for blocking popups (out of the box) and is very suseptable to malware, as we all know. It also doesn't have tabs support.

I personally don't care about a lil' bit of speed. I love the configurability of firefox and pretty much everything about it. I've tried Opera several times and found it's stability lacking. I've tried several different versions and all have died on me after a few months. Now, I keep my computer running well, so I can't blame it on that, as everything else works like new.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

It seems some people here are happy to wallow in ignorance, ignoring the rock solid evidence which shows firefox is lame.

>>>>>"IE doesn't have support for blocking popups"

Fallacious. service pack 2 provides a first rate pop-up stopper.

>>>>>" very suseptable to malware"

Only for a complete idiot who allows his browser to download any old rubbish and doesn't keep up to date with patches.

>>>>>"It also doesn't have tabs support."

Sure it does.You just choose the option which tells your explorer to group all the IE windows together in the taskbar.

[Malakai1911]

IF you could COMPLETELY REMOVE I E From being in the interface in windows... AND Have firefox installed as a factory browser. It be merged into it and can operate just as fast with no ad windows displaying.. YET they havent seen what I E can do when you have spyware that attaches to the browser and hijacks it all the time.

http://nuhi.msfn.org/

You can "COMPLETELY REMOVE"... Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Windows Media Player (but can leave the codecs installed if you want!), Movie Creator,... almost everything.

Or if you have Windows installed already you can use XPlite... but that is so-so, nLite is a much better method.

[Malakai1911]

>>>>>" very suseptable to malware"

Only for a complete idiot who allows his browser to download any old rubbish and doesn't keep up to date with patches.

>>>>>"It also doesn't have tabs support."

Sure it does.You just choose the option which tells your explorer to group all the IE windows together in the taskbar.

Uh... IE has what are commonly called "buffer overflow" exploits. You dont have to click a damn thing to get spyware, and even latest patches don't fix everything. Here's a remote exploitable buffer overflow in our friend ActiveX that has been unpatched since August 2003 ( http://secunia.com/advisories/9534/ )

Also, the tabs support was a reference to Internet Explorer not having firefox/mozilla like tabs, and I'm sure you knew that before you responded.

[Betamax]

It seems some people here are happy to wallow in ignorance, ignoring the rock solid evidence which shows firefox is lame.

>>>>>"IE doesn't have support for blocking popups"

Fallacious. service pack 2 provides a first rate pop-up stopper.

>>>>>" very suseptable to malware"

Only for a complete idiot who allows his browser to download any old rubbish and doesn't keep up to date with patches.

>>>>>"It also doesn't have tabs support."

Sure it does.You just choose the option which tells your explorer to group all the IE windows together in the taskbar.

The thing about stopping pop-ups is that the first pop-up exploits are almost always (I feel like saying 100%) for IE. I had about 3 pop-ups when using Opera for about 6 months (just remembered that Opera has that nice option to 'open only requested pop-ups') and none since I've started with Firefox, yet you can be sure that they'll find some way of pushing pop-ups through with IE, partly because it's the most commonly used browser, but also beacuse of its design.

That grouping-windows thing is nothing like tabs and it's always the first thing I turn off when I use an XP machine. I think the idea behind it was to save space on the taskbar when using multiple windows/apps, but then I just hate clicking and then selecting when I could have just selected without having to click first.

<>

[FrozenShadow23]

Grouped windows aren't tabs. I don't like service pack 2. And, as was said before, exploits make it so you don't need to do any downloading yourself to get the malware, the security holes do it for you.

[Exedus]

Firefox is frankly, lame. The gecko engine is still very much third rate, the technology being buggier and slower than other browsers and rendering many pages in an inferior way.

Opera isn't supported by many websites so opera users will need to keep returning to IE to view pages properly.

Internet Explorer is by far the most superior browser which will view absolutely any web page and because the code is designed to work along with windows it is far faster and smoother with a way shorter loading time.

By all means, try the rest - but you should always come back to the best.

WOW, that had to be one of the dumbest responses I've seen in a long time. I hardly ever post here, I just browse, but this needs to be addressed.

IE does NOT render HTML, CSS, or any other web code better than Firefox. IE is LAZY!! Get that.....LAZY!! You can make all kinds of HTML mistakes and IE will usually ignore them and still render the page. Firefox and Netscape are very strict when it comes to web standards. You have to check your work. you NEED to make sure it's HTML 4 compliant.

Look I'm not trying to BASH IE. I'm simply giving my point of view as a professional web developer. IE only pages are sloppy and lazily coded. Get back to basics. If everyones browser was standards compliant we wouldn't have these issues.

[cpugeniusmv]

First, let me say that I'm not going to directly respond to any one post in this thread, because I know I will go off on a tangent about how much I like SP2. Don't get me started.

Internet Explorer is an okay browser with some default options that make it easy to become a victim of exploitation. If someone knows how to disable ActiveX controls (or even just when/what should be allowed to install), they're already quite a bit safer. As a web developer, I have run into some problems that could probably be easily fixed. Example: IE doesn't support the min-height attribute on divs. There are many more quirks that I won't go into, but it's a hassle to have to create hacks for this and that just so it will work in Internet Explorer.

Firefox is pretty neat, and it's the browser I use every day. I don't have much to say about it other than tabbed browsing is convenient (can be added to IE with third-party programs), I like mouse gestures too (also addable). Adblocking is neat (can be added to IE). The main reason I use firefox is because I often switch between Windows and Linux systems throughout the day, and I like having something familiar between both operating systems. It helps me work better.

I don't have an opinion on Opera--I haven't used it for more than a few minutes. Apparently it's a fast browser. I'll have to try it sometime.

P.S. I like SP2. A lot.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

WOW, that had to be one of the dumbest responses I've seen in a long time. I hardly ever post here, I just browse, but this needs to be addressed.

IE does NOT render HTML, CSS, or any other web code better than Firefox. IE is LAZY!! Get that.....LAZY!! You can make all kinds of HTML mistakes and IE will usually ignore them and still render the page. Firefox and Netscape are very strict when it comes to web standards. You have to check your work. you NEED to make sure it's HTML 4 compliant.

Look I'm not trying to BASH IE. I'm simply giving my point of view as a professional web developer. IE only pages are sloppy and lazily coded. Get back to basics. If everyones browser was standards compliant we wouldn't have these issues.


Compliancy is unimportant to the end user. All that matters is that you can view pages properly. You can view everything great in IE, while many pages hardly work in firefox. I'm sure firefox has compliant coming out of its ass, but if it wont allow me to view the pages i want to why should i use it?

I understand that you are a little green in this area, but i always enjoy helping out a n00b.

[Mels_Smileys45]

I havent had an issue with web browsing with Firefox since the early betas.


Try what ya want and stick with what ya like. If ya like shit wallow in it. Dress up a turd and do a dance with it. Don't be suprised if you wake up smelling like poop.

[shawners]

Face it.. WIth Internet explorer.. It's the biggest reasons why you have to use spybot - adaware to remove the crap that filesharing programs put on.. I can not remove all the crap on there.. The software made wont remove it or completely dump it. I have to format my hard drive and reinstall it.. AND Then I E can easily be messed with... anything that makes spyware or adaware, attaches to Internet explorer. Nothing has attached itself to firefox. All the pages on websites get shown. I never will revert to opening I E when i get four popup windows before the browser launch.

[cpugeniusmv]

Face it.. WIth Internet explorer.. It's the biggest reasons why you have to use spybot - adaware to remove the crap that filesharing programs put on..
If filesharing programs put it there, how is IE involved? It's not.
I can not remove all the crap on there.. The software made wont remove it or completely dump it. I have to format my hard drive and reinstall it.. AND Then I E can easily be messed with... anything that makes spyware or adaware, attaches to Internet explorer. Nothing has attached itself to firefox.Do you use any extensions? There will be spyware extensions. A way around the system will probably be found. There are a lot of clever minds out there. All the pages on websites get shown. I never will revert to opening I E when i get four popup windows before the browser launch.
IE is a fine browser. It doesn't allow anything to install without the user's approval. I know a lot of users ignore the warnings, but that's what the Information Bar in SP2 is supposed to help with.

[Malakai1911]

It doesn't allow anything to install without the user's approval.

My, aren't we authoritave.

http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/simplebind.asp
http://freehost19.websamba.com/shreddersub7/cmdexe.htm

And lets not forget phishing
http://secunia.com/internet_explorer_address_bar_spoofing_test_popup/

Still feeling confident? I've got hardware buffer overflow protection and I still wont run IE on my system ( http://nuhi.msfn.org ).

[cpugeniusmv]

My, aren't we authoritave.

http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/simplebind.asp
http://freehost19.websamba.com/shreddersub7/cmdexe.htm

And lets not forget phishing
http://secunia.com/internet_explorer_address_bar_spoofing_test_popup/

Still feeling confident? I've got hardware buffer overflow protection and I still wont run IE on my system ( http://nuhi.msfn.org ).
I meant via ActiveX controls.

Also: Who's to say this isn't possible in other browsers? It just hasn't been done yet.

[cpugeniusmv]

http://hightechmagazine.com/managearticle.asp?C=140&A=5912

[cpugeniusmv]

http://news.com.com/Reversal+Next+IE+update+divorced+from+Windows/2100-1032_3-5577263.html?part=rss&tag=5575731&subj=news.1032.5

[Malakai1911]

http://hightechmagazine.com/managearticle.asp?C=140&A=5912

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2005/02/15/firefox_to_disable_idn_support_as_phishing_defense .html

Existing users can disable IDN, whereas the next release (1.0.1 and 1.1.x) will have IDN disabled by default (but the functionality will remain for users who require IDN support, but warn the user of possible risks when enabling it).

[Malakai1911]

http://news.com.com/Reversal+Next+IE+update+divorced+from+Windows/2100-1032_3-5577263.html?part=rss&tag=5575731&subj=news.1032.5

"How the browser gets packaged--whether it's with a service pack--has not been nailed down. There is going to be a Service Pack 3 (of Windows XP). That's not a surprise. How that relates to (IE 7's release), we haven't figured out yet."

So, force a service pack to upgrade to possible safe surfing? They dont know yet.

[cpugeniusmv]

"How the browser gets packaged--whether it's with a service pack--has not been nailed down. There is going to be a Service Pack 3 (of Windows XP). That's not a surprise. How that relates to (IE 7's release), we haven't figured out yet."

So, force a service pack to upgrade to possible safe surfing? They dont know yet.
What's your point?

[Malakai1911]

My point? By the time IE7 comes out, Firefox 1.1 will have landed (using the new Gecko 1.8 core). The only problem will be that IE will be just as insecure as ever.

"The company plans to target phishing scams in two main ways. First, the new browser will look for techniques commonly used by such scams, such as having Web links that don't match the text of the hyperlink, as well as links that point to numeric Web addresses. Microsoft also plans the equivalent of a blacklist, which would identify and call out URLs associated with known scams."

- Blacklists wont work, firefox has had a whitelist based approach for a long time when it comes to installing extensions, has relatively good cookie handling, and the firefox extensions make it powerful.
- Having web addresses that dont match the hyperlink? Mozilla Thunderbird added that very anti-phishing support already.

[evilmegaman]

Compliancy is unimportant to the end user. All that matters is that you can view pages properly. You can view everything great in IE, while many pages hardly work in firefox. I'm sure firefox has compliant coming out of its ass, but if it wont allow me to view the pages i want to why should i use it?

I understand that you are a little green in this area, but i always enjoy helping out a n00b.

It may be unimportant to the end user yet, What about all them website designers? afaik it can be quite tough to make something display in every web browser perfectly. If the end user uses a browser they like, And get to a page that doesn't display right, What do they do? leave.

[cpugeniusmv]

My point? By the time IE7 comes out, Firefox 1.1 will have landed (using the new Gecko 1.8 core). The only problem will be that IE will be just as insecure as ever.

"The company plans to target phishing scams in two main ways. First, the new browser will look for techniques commonly used by such scams, such as having Web links that don't match the text of the hyperlink, as well as links that point to numeric Web addresses. Microsoft also plans the equivalent of a blacklist, which would identify and call out URLs associated with known scams."

- Blacklists wont work, firefox has had a whitelist based approach for a long time when it comes to installing extensions, has relatively good cookie handling, and the firefox extensions make it powerful.
- Having web addresses that dont match the hyperlink? Mozilla Thunderbird added that very anti-phishing support already.
I am by no means comparing IE to Firefox, I'm simply stating that IE is relatively 'okay' when it comes to security. And it will improve with time.

[Exedus]

Compliancy is unimportant to the end user. All that matters is that you can view pages properly. You can view everything great in IE, while many pages hardly work in firefox. I'm sure firefox has compliant coming out of its ass, but if it wont allow me to view the pages i want to why should i use it?

I understand that you are a little green in this area, but i always enjoy helping out a n00b.

Well compliancy should be important to the end user. Without web standards the job of web developers like myself becomes a living nightmare. My job would be so much easier with IE out of the picture. IE doesn't even support CSS2 standards. Where's the suport for transparencies and PNG images?? They don't even support some standards that have been around since 1998!! I understand that you don't care. You just view the websites, you dont create them. That's why people use it. They think wow this page works on IE and not on firefox so I guess that means IE is better. WRONG! It means that someone went to the trouble to make sure thier site is actually coded properly and IE doesn't like it.

So MS just anounced that they are going to have a beta version of IE7 out this summer. Hooray!! You think that good ol Bill would be rushing this out to market if it weren't for Firefox? I doubt it. This competition is good for the industry. Without it we would all be using the current version of IE until Longhorn comes out sometime in 2010. The fact that you would even use the term Noob to describe me in your post only sreves to solidify my view of you. Please try and be inteligent with your responses.

[Potato]

Nobody's going to convince anyone of anything here. People are going to use what they like, regardless of what some test shows, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

The fact that you would even use the term Noob to describe me in your post only sreves to solidify my view of you. Please try and be inteligent with your responses.

I'm not interested in making your job easier; maybe if you worked harder in school you would have a proper job.

Internet Explorer is by far the best browser in terms of speed, ease of use, resource usage and reliability. Anyone who disagrees is a fool.

BTW - If you want to sound "inteligent" the least you could do is spell the word properly.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Nobody's going to convince anyone of anything here. People are going to use what they like, regardless of what some test shows, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

Nonsense: I have already received private messages from a number of individuals thanking me for clarifying this issue for them and imparting to me that they are now set to dump firefox and use Internet Explorer (but not with any of that avant crap, which is just a waste of space).

[evilmegaman]

I guess I am trying to say that web developers need some sort of common ground to work on. Without it. Websites are a jumbled up mess!

[Exedus]

I guess I am trying to say that web developers need some sort of common ground to work on. Without it. Websites are a jumbled up mess!

I could not agree more. Common standards would make things much easier if everyone stuck to them.

As for that "real job" comment from grab grab......well that's just low man. Does it make you feel good putting others down. I'm just trying to state my opinion, nothing else.

I'm wondering what you might consider a real job then. I did go to school. 6 years of it. I have my BA majoring in marketing and a 2 year diploma in design. So then if my job doesn't meet your high standards, what would you suggest I do for a living?


Update: Grab Grab, I'd also like to hear your arguments for the items I mentioned in my previous post. I will agree that IE starts faster and uses less resources, but a lot of that is due to the fact that's it's built into winXP. So what do you say about IE not being standards compliant? Don't you think that web standards are important? You also can't argue that IE is more secure. Now I know that much of that has to do with the fact that IE is more popular but that is besides the point. For the moment Firefox is much safer to use.

[cpugeniusmv]

I agree that web browsers and sites should conform to the standard, but the average person doesn't care. If he comes upon a website that doesn't look like it's supposed to, he says "Man, this is a stupid website." whether it's the browser's or the coder's fault.

[Exedus]

I agree that web browsers and sites should conform to the standard, but the average person doesn't care. If he comes upon a website that doesn't look like it's supposed to, he says "Man, this is a stupid website." whether it's the browser's or the coder's fault.

That's my point exactly. People mistakenly think Firefox is a bad browser because some sites don't work properly when in actual fact they DO conform to web standards. So who's fault is that then? The developers? IE has all kinds stuff that just isn't needed that is IE only. They need to get rid of it as it is all useless anyway and just focus on conforming to web standards. Everyone would be better off.

[Malakai1911]

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=6096

IDN Browser Spoofing issue will be officially resolved... without needing to just turn it off by default!

[Hardryve]

It always go back to the preferences of the indiviual more than anything else. Some have to have speed over graphics or reverse, and yet some like the suite's of the kitchen sink with all the appiances at their quick reach. Firefox unofficial-builds for speed are optimized just for that appeal, I personally use bangbang023's versions. Then we have the all to forgotten KMeleon although uses the gecko engine but unlike the Mozilla families is bloat free and can throw down sites just as fast if not faster than any browser out there Opera included. IE and it's clones have an edge though I think especially Maxthon over Slimbrowser for accuracy but reversed when needing speed, as Slimbrowser smokes Maxthon, again depending on what OS and and all the different variables.I found that Opera was a runner but like Mother Mozilla has the kitchen sink included and personally don't use all those appliances all the time. Not saying I don't but when I need to get some where quick and edit on a forum of my own or elsewhere I want speed first, graphics second.

Now I would think that most will agree on this: that when it comes to the bookmark department "Firefox" stands unmatched by any browser including Opera. That feature is excellent out of all the others. I have seen some sites that offer you a way to make your own custom browser (although I cannot recall them which I wish I could) which then you could possibly incorporate all the goodies from each of the running browsers into a stealth performer. IE, if it had tabbed browsing (without the clones: Slimbrowser, Maxthon, Avante, AceExplorer, and all the rest) it would be the hemi of all browsers especially for Window users as the trident engine is so throughly weaved into Gates construction of the Window OS's. But there's hope for the future of IE. Netscape I haven't had any experience as it says it utilizes both the gecko and trident engines together in their compulations. But I don't personally like "AOL" so of course that is just my prejudice to deal with. Lynx the text browser is something I would be interested in for lightning quick renderings of info when you don't need all the glorified graphics along for the haul. But I'm not sure if it can be used in Window builds. Unix has always had my attention because of their insistent professionalism and complete accuracies, strick but their hard to beat. Would love to have a browser that uses Unix components on Windows. I know about cygwin as it is needed in compiling Mozilla and for KMeleon as well.

KMeleon is coming along probably as the most personal browser for the user to change anything about the way in which KMeleon performs. Good subject this is, as the browser is an important feature online, double duh heh? No seriously I check as many browser versions as I have room, I have 3 versions of KMeleon that I use and on board is the Firefox bangbang023 latest along with the Mozilla beta's, Slimbrowsers latest, Maxthon and a spare AceExplorer and of course old faithfull (have to have it if your running Windows OS) IE.

But all in all they all have there fine points and bugs, but to each for different reasons thankGod we have choices right? And you can have more than just the conventional default browser for an your OS. You have space and ram have as many as you want and enjoy each experience with what ever you use them for. Me I'm always looking for other browsers to beta or alpha check their features and weight them all against each other, have to have some niches right? Thanks to the guy that started this thread, as I love these kinds of threads that enable the pros and the novices to gain more insight into the vast black-whole world of virtual imagination and all at our convenience when that sudden impulse rips us all to venture back online and cram more info into the crevases of that grey matter known as the human computer of mankind, appreciate this thread man

Many thxs, it was interesting

Keep searching and learning,

Hardryvehttp://img238.exs.cx/img238/2819/thanks6bo.gif

[silentscream]

firefox + RIP suits me

i dont have to ever see anything i dont want

sorted