The fundementals of Anon p2p

[freethenet]

P2P has a huge following and therefore a huge budget to follow and sue.

This is a commercial move , relies on lawyers, middlemen,and has an negative exponential effect on efficiency.


That is, the easier you get your files, the easier it is to stop (sue), and more lucrative it is to the (dare I say it) LOST law hammers, and the worse a download speed.

I do not condone artist infringements, but I have no connection with the artist, so will only connect to Media companies selling someone elses produce. This is not good for anyone.

There is no such thing as anonymity, as there will always be a recipient, or a donator.
All that can be done digitally is to increase the initial cost to the interlopers.
This is where anonymous P2P arrives.

Suppose it is a price of freedom. You will pay for it in inefficiency in your P2P system in the future, as you have done in the past. Whether it be napster, morpheus, torrent, donkey,bear/file whatever, *lockbuster.et al.

What is very bemusing is the zeropaid "clan" ,those with a few thousand posts. " giving it large" re. P2P without realising their heirachy is very much numbered. A lot of your external links have fallen foul due to the topic stated above.


Please do not mention phrases such as "Fan boy" or "In the pocket" nor "It does not work" in the alogorithmic zone, or you will appear stupid, and will have no where to go. Which I predict will lead you to the removal of anonymous networks from your forums as a result of apathy.

I do hope you prove me wrong.
:upside

[The Hunter]

What i humbly require is proof. As I am getting a lot of files as we speak. When one speaks of such things as anonymous, I have never seen it proven. When a program is pumped more than the handle on a dry well why wouldnt we be very cautious? We have been hit with many of the we are the next "read super replacement filesharing program", but they have all fallen short. Very much so IMHO. For now my job is to keep any spam, from being overloaded here. Read Spam means any thing overhyped, and with such a small userbase as to not support proper testing.

[The Hunter]

We are not a bunch of tight asses here. Just give us something to run with besides someone posting that so and so said something on another frigging forum. What is there for files? How does the speed compare to the # of users online? Now Im still wondering about the security, as it hasnt been proven, and this friendly bunch here are my main priority, as i want none of their asses busted trying a new program.

[notbob]

i think he intended to say anon p2p is b.s.

and he's right

either it's a troll post to piss off the crazies, or he is (as you imply) getting ready to wow us with his sales pitch

[Watchmen]

Do you feel a proxy makes you anonymous?

[freethenet]

I am pleased you are gettign a lot of files. As zeropaid is a filesharing portal ,I guess you know exactly the media ownership at the uploading end.

It must be a shock to you to now know the /bbs text in the URL is router blocked in governmental public areas as "chat". Is that not censorship? I think so.

Annonymity and Ambiguity should not be merged.
There is no such thing as annonymity, as communictaion requires at least 2.


New modalities do attract positive young sparks, which detract from the real issues particularly in Anon P2P.

New networks will not flourish, using terms as others state "super replacement".
It is a bandwidth compromise no matter which way you look at it. The engine of ants is academic. However can be utilised by file sharers somewhat effectively. Do not use Anonymous P2P if a quick hit is needed. It will not satisfy.

Good luck moderating.

[The Hunter]

it would depend on where it is from, and if the records are able to be made available by a court order.

[Watchmen]

it would depend on where it is from, and if the records are able to be made available by a court order.

Exactly. It depends on those two things: 1)where its located and 2)what type of proxy..is it a transparent proxy or an anonymising one.

[The Hunter]

Son a quick bit is not what i get. Tonight i downloaded over 2 gig, and as of yet where i live the riaa can kiss my sweaty you know what. PS I aint a young spark, so you can skip over that one also. apparently you are not as wise as you think, or you would know where i live. Also dont try the wise old sage routine, as i have seen it many times before grasshopper.

[Watchmen]

Son a quick bit is not what i get. Tonight i downloaded over 2 gig, and as of yet where i live the riaa can kiss my sweaty you know what. PS I aint a young spark, so you can skip over that one also. apparently you are not as wise as you think, or you would know where i live. Also dont try the wise old sage routine, as i have seen it many times before grasshopper.

This post left me scratching my arse and wondering what in blazes you meant.

[The Hunter]

It was a reply to freethenet. Just scroll back up.

[Watchmen]

It was a reply to freethenet. Just scroll back up.

I thought you were flaming me. I figured out after the second post made by him that it was a 'troll post' and even considered stating something to that effect. Usually I ignore such posts and it works great.

[The Hunter]

i know what it is, and Im not flaming you in the least. As to him when replying to someone on as topic such as this you need to know their location, and possibly even some of the law of said country. For now im moving on, as i have other chores to attend to.
Peace

[notbob]

i say ban him

too much rooting around--get to the point already, rather than repeating the obvious

[Watchmen]

Im not flaming you in the least.


okay. :) I thought it seemed oddly out of place for you...doesn't fit well with your disposition to do something like that. It's all good. :gj

[Watchmen]

i say ban him

too much rooting around--get to the point already, rather than repeating the obvious

I hope you mean the other guy.

[Hornet]

I am pleased you are gettign a lot of files. As zeropaid is a filesharing portal ,I guess you know exactly the media ownership at the uploading end.


I think the fact that Hunter is downloading gigabytes of media files is missing the point.

I would hope that most members of ZP know more about P2P than the average internet user and so could do the same. (I also use winmx and bit torrent as well as ANts)

Casual users do not want to think what do I need to do not to get sued by the RIAA/MPAA they just want their files. Hence, Kaaza is the second most popular file sharing system.

So as the climate becomes more hostile casual file sharers will migrate to "safer" clients either private or public as they do not want to think about the technical details of safer file sharing with exsisting clients (like not allowing share folder to be browsed or not downloading popular content, using private hubs etc). If they can't migrate they will stop file sharing.

Currently there is NO SAFE client as all current p2p clients either don't hide your IP or are very complicted and slow to use.

What ANts is about is to develop a fast easy to use safe client.

As I'm sure notbob will say in reply post, we are not there yet.

But the speed increases due to recent developments such as random walkers and clustering have been substantial.

I too have gigabytes of mp3s and videos all downloaded from ANts.

The Hornet project is separating the GUI from the core and redesigning it to make it SIMPLE to use like emule.

Gwren (the hardest working developer on Earth - new updates daily) is continuing to improve the routing protocol to further improve download speed.

Remember it's been done before - in Japan - by Winny - Fast Anonymous downloads - or does that not count as it was not in USA?

The events of the last few days shows again that P2P needs to develop if it is going to survive as a mainstream activity.

People want safe easy to use p2p so that they can enjoy their file sharing experience without worry - in the privacy of their own homes.

Sure there are private hubs for the few but not for the masses.

Hornet

[The Hunter]

You totally missed my point, it is safe for me as of yet, as we pay a surcharge on our blank CDs here to compensate the starving artists.

[DigitalJunkie]

Ants may be safer now by using anonymous proxy, but they can also make law to ban use of anonymous proxy. So you're still breaking the law, unless we can convice them it's a lie that entertainment industries are losing money all because of files sharing & not because of bad management, outdated business model, bad contents. They are lying to their shareholders & others, so they can maintain their positions! Until everyone can see thru this, just like the war on drug. They are not winning the war, they are costing money for you & me!

[Watchmen]

lol @ "starving artists" and "downloading gigabytes of content from Ants"
I don't think Hunter was using the ants program to download the gigabytes of content he mentioned.

[The Hunter]

No i wasnt, not by a long shot. Although I may try it eventually, after more development.

[Hornet]

Ants P2P may be safer now by using anonymous proxy, but they can also make law to ban use of anonymous proxy. So you're still breaking the law, unless we can convice them it's a lie that entertainment industries are losing money all because of files sharing & not because of bad management, outdated business model, bad contents. They are lying to their shareholders & others, so they can maintain their positions! Until everyone can see thru this, just like the war on drug. They are not winning the war, they are costing money for you & me!

DigitalJunkie you are right that ANts P2P does not make P2P legal but it does stop people from being sued until the day that P2P is granted full fair use status (probable never).

Remember the RIAA closed down Napster but haven't succeeded in closing down either emule of Limewire etc not because the law changed to make p2p legal after Napster was closed down BUT because technology changed.

Technology (decentralised p2p) moved P2P applications (most anyway except for Bit Torrent link sites) out of the reach of the law.

So now they are suing individuals that use p2p because technological development have stopped them going after the applications.

What is needed now is a new p2p client for the masses that stops ordinary file sharers from being sued.

(So NOT ANts P2P in its present form as although its anonymous and fast enough it is complicated and not user friendly.)

You are right such a anonymous p2p client won't make p2p legal but it will protect its users making it safe for them to file share.

The RIAA will then find another way to attack file sharing and then technology will move on again and so on.

So Hunter, Notbob and other ZP experts:

Can technology stop the RIAA current wave of law suits?

Will p2p ever be safe again - like in the good old days?

Will p2p file sharing remain a mainstream activity or will legal action and a bad press drive it to being an underground minority activity?

Hornet

[DigitalJunkie]

Hornet,

Do you know why MPAA is attacking web sites & servers, it is because they are losing! They know they can't sue millions of people downloading everyday, and they can't sue p2p networks & applications. So, they are blaming file sharers for their own incomptence in gererating more profit for shareholders. I only wish the public knows the truth! They can't sue their way out of this.

[notbob]

Can technology stop the RIAA current wave of law suits?

Will p2p ever be safe again - like in the good old days?

Will p2p file sharing remain a mainstream activity or will legal action and a bad press drive it to being an underground minority activity?

Hornet


like hunter already said, it doesn't need to

canada is covered through taxes, and i'm in private hubs off their radar

i couldn't care less whether the general public is able to share files, i am, so screw them

[Watchmen]

like hunter already said, it doesn't need to

canada is covered through taxes, and i'm in private hubs off their radar

i couldn't care less whether the general public is able to share files, i am, so screw them

Then why do you fight so vehemently to attack programs such as ANts and other anonymous p2p networks which are working so hard to help others who don't live in Canada or have access to these private hubs?

[AussieMatt]

I think Notbob is on a a WASTE mesh if my memory serves me right .WASTE 2 will have multisource and swarming and maybe the ability to scale larger than it already can ,thats the word from Eric the WASTE project admin.So it could be a vaible alternative for small groups .

PS funny sig Watchmen nice to see your a Ants 'fanboy' now ha ha

[notbob]

Then why do you fight so vehemently to attack programs such as ANts and other anonymous p2p networks which are working so hard to help others who don't live in Canada or have access to these private hubs?

what some see as an attack is simple logic really

ants is overcomplicated, wastes bandwidth, and has almost no content, so why would people use it? especially kazaa/supernova refugees used to clicking a link and getting a file

ants etc. are not private, they are redundant, and in reality no better than a kazaa etc., just slower and shittier

[The Hunter]

I agree with notbob, especially about complicated programs. Hell I dont even want to dick around with a program I need a manual for.

[Watchmen]

@notbob - what about mute and freenet? What are your impressions of those networks and I have to ask:

Have you actually tried Ants? If so which version and do you have the latest java installed on your system?

@Hunter - I agree totally and I also recall you saying something to the effect of 'Gui means shit to me...I'm more interested in Content and can I get what I want."

So is it safe to assume if Ants had the content you would use it?

[The Hunter]

Im not big on java programs, but if it had reasonable speed, and was not complicated to use I might. The reasons for simplicity are not difficult, as I share with many very close friends, that would not use a complicated program.

[AussieMatt]

Most peole cant work out how to exchange keys and get thier correct IP to set up WASTE

Some people that have java installed and know how to set up thier ports say that Ants is easy .The problem is lack of content and sources because its a small network and not everyone is sharing so that means if your not uploading you are probably routing so in a way Ants is anti leach.

Anyway the only way this network will grow is more users that will only come with a more friendly interface for the Newbs and kazza/emule refugees and give them somthing they are familar with in the p2p world but grwen is more interested in making the client work before he wants to mess with the GUI .
Improved routing that is being worked on now that ants clusters nodes and a dedicated userbase that are willing to beta test and run the client on a daily basis may help Ants stability .
For most users It would be better for you to wait till Ants is out of beta and then you may get what you want out of this client and network.

[Watchmen]

Im not big on java programs, but if it had reasonable speed, and was not complicated to use I might. The reasons for simplicity are not difficult, as I share with many very close friends, that would not use a complicated program.

I understand. I hated java at first also..because I found the interfaces to be "clunky" and unintuative then I tried one that I really liked. The interface wasn't clunky or unattractive and I've really come to enjoy it.
If you ask a programmer why he would chose java over other programming languages the answer would probably be portability or the ability to be used on a wide variety of different operating systems...not just limiting yourself one particuliar OS like windows.

I have my preference of p2p programs and applications as well and haven't mentioned the ones I use. I do not use ants but I have been studying the technology behind it which is why I asked earlier in this thread if you trusted proxy servers and considered them to be safe.

Ants from my understanding relies on something called silly enough 'onion routers' which are proxy servers voluntarily ran by who else: geeks. It's part of something called the I2P project and has to do with privacy and anonymity.

Originally it was meant so that users in politically restricted countries such as China and elsewhere could have unfiltered access to world news. Haven't studied enough about the proxying method used in Ants to know just how anonymous it really is.

[notbob]

@notbob - what about mute and freenet? What are your impressions of those networks and I have to ask:

Have you actually tried Ants? If so which version and do you have the latest java installed on your system?

@Hunter - I agree totally and I also recall you saying something to the effect of 'Gui means shit to me...I'm more interested in Content and can I get what I want."

So is it safe to assume if Ants had the content you would use it?

why would i mess around with that crap when i can already get whatever i want at good speeds?

p.s. i think mute and freenet are wastes of hard drive space too. "anonymity" is not worth the hassle right now--maybe when everybody has swedish and korean style 10/100 internet the negatives will be offset by the benefits, but i'm not waiting 20 years to get that (or paying 10,000 bucks a month to get it today)

[Watchmen]

why would i mess around with that crap when i can already get whatever i want at good speeds?

p.s. i think mute and freenet are wastes of hard drive space too. "anonymity" is not worth the hassle right now--maybe when everybody has swedish and korean style 10/100 internet the negatives will be offset by the benefits, but i'm not waiting 20 years to get that (or paying 10,000 bucks a month to get it today)

Then you are not qualified to comment on this technology.

[The Hunter]

He said I think, that does not mean that he is not qualified to comment on it, as he has been in filesharing a long time, and has also used a lot of programs.

[AussieMatt]

Watchmen Ants does'nt use onion routing or mixes it uses Ant based routing which is based on this paper http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/57701.html .

Heres a simple description of how Ants and MUTE work

Both of these systems work through the same basic antnet (http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/57701.html) routing, providing some degree of anonymity based on the threat model of providing plausible deniability against a simple non-colluding adversary. With the antnet routing, they first either do a random walk or a broadcast search to find some peer with the data or identity desired, and then use a feedback algorithm to optimize that found path. This works well for applications that merely want to know what other people around them have to offer - "How are y'all doing" vs. "Hey Alice, how are you" - you basically get a local cluster of nodes that can share files with and maintain some degree of anonymity (though you don't have much control over who is in that group of peers).

[Watchmen]

He said I think, that does not mean that he is not qualified to comment on it, as he has been in filesharing a long time, and has also used a lot of programs.

I'm not against him voicing his opinion..just pointing out that its 'unqualified opnion' in that he has put forth no effort in testing or trying out any of the programs mentioned.

[Watchmen]

I'm not against him voicing his opinion..just pointing out that its 'unqualified opnion' in that he has put forth no effort in testing or trying out any of the programs mentioned.

and apparently I have the wrong opinion as well. Aussiematt I read about all this stuff from links you provieded in the past. These new links are yet even more reading for me to have to do and so I will.

[notbob]

I'm not against him voicing his opinion..just pointing out that its 'unqualified opnion' in that he has put forth no effort in testing or trying out any of the programs mentioned.


what's unqualified?

i tried them, they sucked, i deleted them--i'm not going to use a program that sucks out of some high and mighty principle, and neither are most other users

so are you ants' monyak? to hornet as filehoover and aussiematt's sharepro?

or are tsafa1 and ezzye the sharepros? i get confused

[Watchmen]

Watchmen Ants does'nt use onion routing or mixes it uses Ant based routing which is based on this paper http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/57701.html .



That page has nothing there. Please link me directly to the content you wanted me to see so as not to lead to me having to guess the correct content.

[Watchmen]

what's unqualified?

i tried them, they sucked, i deleted them--i'm not going to use a program that sucks out of some high and mighty principle, and neither are most other users

so are you ants' monyak? to hornet as filehoover and aussiematt's sharepro?

or are tsafa1 and ezzye the sharepros? i get confused

I was under the impression you haven't tried them that's why I used that term..hehe got it from some law show tv...can't remember if it was the prosecution or the defense who was cross examing a witness on the witness stand and i think the witness said something to the effect of, 'that guys crazy' and the defense lawyer said you're no psychiatrist so you're unqualified to make that call.

I used it similiarly although naively and for the record I respect your comments and enjoy your opinions...unless of course they ground me rather abruptly then I lick my wounds, recognise the value of what was said and go on about my business. :)

[AussieMatt]

Ok watchmen heres the image link http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cachedpage/57701/1

Also the MUTE website has some good documnetation on Ant Based routing
http://mute-net.sourceforge.net/howAnts.shtm

And a bit about security
http://mute-net.sourceforge.net/howPrivacy.shtml

Jason the developer of Ants has far more documnetaion then Grwen does but he is a profesional student and English is his first language .

Its easier to program crypto and p2p apps in java also ive been told becuse of the prebuilt libaries and Suns work on the , JAXTA project . Microsoft developed thier Pastry project that uses a Round Robin type system and mixtets in Java before they tried to port it to C#.

[AussieMatt]

notbob has to resort to flaming again how inteligent of him .

[notbob]

notbob has to resort to flaming again how inteligent of him .

in retrospect, i guess he's the monyak, and you are the johnboy5501--he's the "convinced convert", to your "chipper optimist"

i love how applicable es5 references are to any spamtastic "next best thing"

[AussieMatt]

looks like you are spaming this forum with your flames

[notbob]

looks like you are spaming this forum with your flames


trust me if i was flaming you, you'd know about it

p.s. what happened to the original troll who started this thread in the first place?

[Watchmen]

so are you ants' monyak? to hornet as filehoover and aussiematt's sharepro?

or are tsafa1 and ezzye the sharepros? i get confused

Notbob, I did not notice this until after the fact. I am familiar with those names having been a longtime reader of the forum here even way before the registration date showing on my username so I can appreciate the humour in those comments.

I hope tsafa(1) is reinstated if he and crackerjacker can get along without attacking each other personally. I haven't seen any posts by Ezzye here in what to me seems like a very long time.

I was always under the impression Monyak was a Sharepro alias especially from all the voice over ip stuff he posted. I've been just as suspicious of all the ants posters here as you are but it seems like you are the one trolling here now.

I get the fact that
a)you don't like the program
b)its marketing
c)anonymity claims

but to consistently attack the people attempting to make legitamit posts discussing the technology and ideas involved in securing safety and anonymity in filesharing shows plain stupidity.

You come across very ignorant to me in your inability to embrace ideas you don't agree with by not being able to entertain these thoughts without accepting them.

I've spoken with Hornet and AussieMatt privately asking both to please resist the urge to flame you and others back who may not approve of Ants. I now ask for you to do the same.

Look where this thread is posted...It is in the proper section as approved of by the mods and admins...The Ants section of the forum. I was equally as weary at the amount of spamming done by overzealous users excited about the program and the technological aspects behind it. I haven't contacted the worst offenders as that is not my place to do so as a registered user with equal rights as any other registered user to the forum.

Its my hope that peer pressure will persuade those overeager to express themselves concerning Ants specifically to take their cue from the collective conciousness of the community here at zeropaid and refrain from promoting Ants in any other threads or news comments outside of the forum specifically created for such posts as a courtesy to all members and a semblance of respect.

It would not bother me if the Ants forum its self was excluded from having its posts displayed prominently on the front page everytime a thread is bumped or a new post is made in similiar fashion to how the Zeropaid Polls forum also does not display there.

I am interested in the technical aspects behind anonymous filesharing programs and would like to see such discussion encouraged here. I hope you and others will allow us the same courtesy as we extend to you.

So I make another call for the Ants supporters to only post in the Ant forum regarding Ants and I ask whomever can make it happen to stop new and bumped posts from being displayed on the front page.

It would really be a shame if all talk of anonymous p2p were banned due to the actions of an overzealous few. There's some substance to these claims and that is why I ask that you please allow the Ants "team"/forum to remain.

[Siskabush]

Notbob, I did not notice this until after the fact. I am familiar with those names having been a longtime reader of the forum here even way before the registration date showing on my username so I can appreciate the humour in those comments.

I hope tsafa(1) is reinstated if he and crackerjacker can get along without attacking each other personally. I haven't seen any posts by Ezzye here in what to me seems like a very long time.

I was always under the impression Monyak was a Sharepro alias especially from all the voice over ip stuff he posted. I've been just as suspicious of all the ants posters here as you are but it seems like you are the one trolling here now.

I get the fact that
a)you don't like the program
b)its marketing
c)anonymity claims

but to consistently attack the people attempting to make legitamit posts discussing the technology and ideas involved in securing safety and anonymity in filesharing shows plain stupidity.

You come across very ignorant to me in your inability to embrace ideas you don't agree with by not being able to entertain these thoughts without accepting them.

I've spoken with Hornet and AussieMatt privately asking both to please resist the urge to flame you and others back who may not approve of Ants. I now ask for you to do the same.

Look where this thread is posted...It is in the proper section as approved of by the mods and admins...The Ants section of the forum. I was equally as weary at the amount of spamming done by overzealous users excited about the program and the technological aspects behind it. I haven't contacted the worst offenders as that is not my place to do so as a registered user with equal rights as any other registered user to the forum.

Its my hope that peer pressure will persuade those overeager to express themselves concerning Ants specifically to take their cue from the collective conciousness of the community here at zeropaid and refrain from promoting Ants in any other threads or news comments outside of the forum specifically created for such posts as a courtesy to all members and a semblance of respect.

It would not bother me if the Ants forum its self was excluded from having its posts displayed prominently on the front page everytime a thread is bumped or a new post is made in similiar fashion to how the Zeropaid Polls forum also does not display there.

I am interested in the technical aspects behind anonymous filesharing programs and would like to see such discussion encouraged here. I hope you and others will allow us the same courtesy as we extend to you.

So I make another call for the Ants supporters to only post in the Ant forum regarding Ants and I ask whomever can make it happen to stop new and bumped posts from being displayed on the front page.

It would really be a shame if all talk of anonymous p2p were banned due to the actions of an overzealous few. There's some substance to these claims and that is why I ask that you please allow the Ants "team"/forum to remain.

Well, maybe you should help your cause and ask these damn spammers/marketers for Ants to shut the fuck up. You say youre bothered by the Ants spam, but like the program, and want others to try it.

Do your part to paint a better picture for Ants if you like it that much. Help shut the spammers up.

[Hornet]

Well, maybe you should help your cause and ask these damn spammers/marketers for Ants to shut the fuck up. You say youre bothered by the Ants spam, but like the program, and want others to try it.

Do your part to paint a better picture for Ants if you like it that much. Help shut the spammers up.

Pathetic Siskabush I did not know that you owned ZP and that it was not longer a file sharing portal.

ANts is updated nearly daily - we have the hardest working developer on the planet that is why we have so many posts

OR would rather p2p developed at a slower pace or not developed at all?

Hornet

[notbob]

OR would rather p2p developed at a slower pace or not developed at all?

Hornet


what part of "nobody gives a shit" don't you understand?

ants has 20 users, and if development stopped and it closed, there would still be approximately 6,999,999,980 in the world who couldn't care less

ants is not the only p2p out there

[Hornet]

what part of "nobody gives a shit" don't you understand?


notbob do you suggest stopping all P2P development because you don't care as you've already got your

Or should we just stop the developments you don't like?

You were probably saying that no more p2p development was needed when Napster was around.

Do you or have you recently used a public file sharing network?

If not why do you post on ZP, the file sharing protal?

Hornet

[notbob]

notbob do you suggest stopping all P2P development because you don't care as you've already got you

Or should we just stop the developments you don't like?

You were probably saying that no more p2p development was needed when Napster was around.

Do you or have you recently used a public file sharing network?

If not why do you post on ZP, the file sharing protal?

Hornet

making filesharing public has without exception ruined it

if it's public, it's available to anyone, and 9 times out of 10 those are the people who add nothing to the system

i post here because i want to, and i don't need your permission

[mojo-ris-in]

:santa Wow glad to know things haven't changed much since I last posted. It seems like we just supplanted one overhyped network for another one but the story is the same as are the players albeit with different nicks. Makes it seem like I haven't missed a beat.

A word to the ants fanboys. Overhyping a network here will never bring you users. It'll more than likely turn off people from ever trying so by posting in every forum you're hurting yourself more than helping. Let the program do the talking and you'll get your users, especially if it works as promised.

BTW Merry Christmas notbob and Curtis. Good to see you guys still fighting the good fight.

[Wolfie]

Wow glad to know things haven't changed much since I last posted. It seems like we just supplanted one overhyped network for another one but the story is the same as are the players albeit with different nicks. Makes it seem like I haven't missed a beat.

lmao

Good to see ya Mojo. Its been a while. Happy holidays. :)

[rainbowdemon]

Hey, Mojo!! How have you been, man?

[mojo-ris-in]

Thanks guys I'm good. Hope your Christmas was good.

I read a lot here just don't post much anymore as I kind of got burned out with all the fanboys before. Now I don't have to respond all the time and I kinda like that freedom :blah

Good to see some of the old regulars though :)

[The Hunter]

Yeah man it really does me good to see you here. This place is still interesting, and did you see the cast of idiots, I mean wonderful folks we got modding here now? LOL

[mojo-ris-in]

LOL I have noticed your "crack" staff. Seems like you got a good crew.