Use http tunnel to eliminate fakes

[tsafa1]

Ants has an HTTP tunnel that allows users to host webpages anonymously. In short people would install a program like "apache 2" and then share html files in the server directory of apache. Other users would then go to the "http server" panel in ants and hit the refresh botton to get a list of available servers (if any). you then activate that server by right clicking and then rigt clicking again to open with your browser.

These webpages can contain anything that you can put on a webpage from text to thumbnail pictures. You can also copy and paste File Hashes. As people become familiar with your server and gain the servers trust, they will know that hashes posted on your website are not fake.

Since this server is within ants and the data is routed via ants protocols it is just as anonymous as the files you are sharing. And since no one can know the true location of this server it can not be taken down like some other intenet based stes that were closed.

Another way of looking at this is that each person can set up his own anonymous bulletine board with hash Files.

[tsafa1]

I copied and pasted the following from a server on ants with instructions on how to set up a server:



The Apache server will become the link between the html file you will create and Ants P2P program. This will allow you to share any files you create anonymously with the world.

First you will go to the Apache website: http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi

Go to the download section and find: Win32 Binary (MSI Installer): apache_2.0.50-win32-x86-no_ssl.msi

After it installs, click on the .msi file to install. You will get an info page-hit next.

Now you will get an interesting page that might look scary because it asks for domain names and e-mail address. Fear not, you can make on up. Just type it in the right form.

For network domain, enter something like: lotsofporn.com

For server name, enter something like: www.lotofporn.com

For administrator email address, enter something like: madman@lotsofporn.com

underneath that you will see two options. Leave the default: All users on port 80 as a service-recommeded.

Hit next button

Pick typical setup and hit next to install. After installation you should see apache running in your task try. leave it alone. You are finished setting up your Apache server.

Go to your web browser and type in: http://127.0.0.1/

You should get a page telling you that you Apache installation was successful.

Now you have to configure Ants, which is simple. Go to the settings panel and click on: open http service. Enter proxy port: 8080 and local port: 80

Home page for now will be: index.html

Now Ants is ready. Apache is ready. All you have to do is create a webpage.

Let's do something simple. Find a .jpg picture of a naked girl. Copy and paste it the following directory on your computer: C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs

You can delete all the other files in that directory. You don't need them, you will create your own. Effectively this will be your share directory. Both the picture and the html file you will create must be in this directory. So now that the picture is in this directory go back to dreamweaver. In the toolbar you will see a green icon with a tree on it. Click on that. Now browse your way to the place where you saved the picture: C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs

Click on the picture and hit ok. You should now have it on your page. We are finished. This is just a simple test. Go to the top menu and save your file. Click: file; and then: save as. You will name this file: index.html

If you remember this is the Home Page name we typed into Ants. So for now any file you save must be in that directory with the name: index.htlm

I almost forgot to mention, in Ants under the Home Page field, you could enter a description for people to see. It can be anything you want. (example: free porn for all !!!)

That's it. Now go into the IRC channel and tell someone to refresh their servers and try to open it with their browser. If they can, you are now a WEBMASTER !!!!!

If they can't tell them to make sure their browser has been configured correctly. To do that tell them to go to the settings page and click on: Browser Location

Then click your way to your browsers executable. For me it is: C:\Program Files\mozilla.org\Mozilla\mozilla.exe

You may have a different browser.

To view an http server, first click on it. The right click and hit activate. Then right click again and hit open with browser.

I have one favor to ask of you. When you start publishing your own webpages, please copy and paste these instructions at the bottom somewhere so other people can also learn to set up their own anonymous webpages.

Thank You

[tsafa1]

Also please know that HORNET has a built in webserver. If you use Hornet, you do not need to install apche. Just copy your htlm file to the webserver directory inside the Hornet directory.

Much thanks to Bitzbreaker for simplifing things a bit. (note: hornet is based on ants 0.6.9 and works on a seperate network. You will anly be able to connect to people in the hornet chat room.)

[tsafa1]

If you have set up an http server the best way for you to test it is to install another verion of ants on your desktop. You can not have two JWS so you should download and install the developer version from the source forge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/antsp2p/

It is very important that you change the port number to any thing other then 4567. You can not run two ants on same port number. You can use anthing else. use 3501 for example. If you have filrewall remember to open port 3501 and 3502, in this case. Also you can not enter IRC with same name. So if you Like to use Bozack as you chatname, on your second ants you should use Bozack2. This way we can keep track of how many people are really on Ants.

You will set up the browser in your second ants and you can even enter the html file name and open a poxy server in the second ants. You will now be able to server from either ants. You can refresh the http servers and open them.

You can even go a step beyond that and search files you know you are sharing and dowload from yourself. Here you will see the potential of ants. You will see swarming at wild speeds up to 500 kb/s. Because now you are transfering files via the internet and also within you own computer. Just make sure you pick a diffrent download directory. Here you will see that ants is not limited by anything other then bandwith.

[tsafa1]

When you install two ants on one desktop and transfer fiels between them, Ants thinks you are on a Local Area Network.

[Stownplayer]

ok, i'll try that in one sec.......

[infringer]

Ahhh yeas ants seems to have a great potential indeed needs a larger user base but definate potential for sure.

-infringer-

[Psilaxs]

Stownplayer has the same sentiments as i do. let me try that out real quick and tell ya how it goes. People will not try ants nor take it seriously until it is as simple as point click download.

I would rather deal with the cliques of people on filetopia than go through all that, and believe me, getting files on filetopia is damned near impossible if you are an unknown.

[tsafa1]

People will not try ants nor take it seriously until it is as simple as point click download.



I very much agree with you. My hope is that once Gwren finalizes the protocol, other programers will modify Ants so that it boots from simple webhost caches and then give it a simple Kazaa like interface. Ants is open source, so not only is it legal to modify it, but you will also get help to do it :tilted

[zeroshadow]

Internal anonymously websites are a very good idea. People will be able to host their own links just like those ed2k link sites that are so nice for eDonkey.

Thanks for the How To above tsafa1 that helped out a lot setting it up.

One thing you seemed to have got is that people should block incoming http traffic to their apache server all traffic needs to be going through Ants only to remain anonymous.

[crackerjacker]

hmm proxies are slow
but hell its better then nothing.

[tsafa1]

One thing you seemed to have got is that people should block incoming http traffic to their apache server all traffic needs to be going through Ants only to remain anonymous.


That is the one aspect of this whole thing that i do not have a handle on. Could someone please post a detailed explanation. I have run an http website and then tried to access it via regular internet from google and was not able to, how is this vulnerable? I could also use more info on picking and setting up a firewall. Zonealarm drove me nuts. Gwren says open ports 4567 and 4568, ZA did not give those options. I need something i can relate to GW's instructions. Also what ports do i open in order to publish http webpage?

Thanks Much

[fnordprefect]

tsafa:
If you don't configure your webserver to not respond to external port 80 requests then anyone you knows your IP (and you have been spreading it around a bit, plus it would be trivial to obtain it from IRC/gwebcache) can just point their browser to: http://yourIPhere and bingo! goodbye anonymous webpage, hello lawsuits.

You can block access in 2 ways, most webservers will have an option to restrict port 80 access, and you should limit it to 127.0.0.1 or "localhost" only.

Alternatively, you can use the program controls in Zonealarm to block port 80 access from the Internet zone.

You don't really need to bother opening ports with Zonealarm. When a program attempts to initiate a connection or listen on a port, ZA will ask you for permission and if you click Yes and tick the Remember option) then it's taken care of.

So, if you have Ants running happily and install your webserver, then block the webserver from responding to non-localhost requests then Ants people will make requests through the Ants port/s.
The Ants program contacts the webserver which responds since your Ants program is running on localhost.

That help?
If anyone catches a mistake in my instructions please don't hesitate to post a correction. This is an important topic.

[eivioolla]

hmm proxies are slow
but hell its better then nothing.

Yeah, damn those slow foreign proxies, surfing via them is such a pain...
http://img176.exs.cx/img176/7428/slowproxy4bz.jpg

It's not like you need to be lightning fast to view a simple web site that this topic was about.

[shawners]

User base isnt lacking for say, it needs people to share a 100 percent of the things they have on thier hard drive..

[Krell]

User base isnt lacking for say, it needs people to share a 100 percent of the things they have on thier hard drive..

Did you just say that?

.

[AussieMatt]

At least in the Ants setup it gives you the option to share files or a directory unlike another new so called distributed network that has been over hyped even more than Ants .
Leechers in ants contribute upload bandwidth for routing ,searches, network fuctions as everyone is a 'supernode' so if a fast nodes slots are all full with connections the data has to go through someone else and this is usualy the leechers node .

[tsafa1]

You can block access in 2 ways, most webservers will have an option to restrict port 80 access, and you should limit it to 127.0.0.1 or "localhost" only.

Do you or anyone know how to do this with apache?

Alternatively, you can use the program controls in Zonealarm to block port 80 access from the Internet zone.

You don't really need to bother opening ports with Zonealarm. When a program attempts to initiate a connection or listen on a port, ZA will ask you for permission and if you click Yes and tick the Remember option) then it's taken care of. [/COLOR]

Ants shows up as JWS in Zonealarm. I am guessing that i should say yes to allow JWS to connect, but that i need to no, for port 80, how do i do that. There are 4 JWS in there, whitch is which is which. I'm guessing one for IRC, one for ants, sone ofr something else? Also two for apache in there. should they be turned on too?


When i started zonealarm i lost all my peers.

So, if you have Ants running happily and install your webserver, then block the webserver from responding to non-localhost requests then Ants people will make requests through the Ants port/s.
The Ants program contacts the webserver which responds since your Ants program is running on localhost.

explain this concept of a localhost. What is the alternate?

Thanks very much for your help

[fnordprefect]

You can block access in 2 ways, most webservers will have an option to restrict port 80 access, and you should limit it to 127.0.0.1 or "localhost" only.

Do you or anyone know how to do this with apache?{/quote]

Not off the top of my head, try searching the Apache.org website/forums.

[QUOTE=tsafa1]Ants shows up as JWS in Zonealarm. I am guessing that i should say yes to allow JWS to connect, but that i need to no, for port 80, how do i do that. There are 4 JWS in there, whitch is which is which. I'm guessing one for IRC, one for ants, sone ofr something else? Also two for apache in there. should they be turned on too?

If you only have one instance of Ants running, it should have a green circle next to it to indicate it is running now. But you don't want to alter any settings for Ants, you want to alter them for Apache, which will have it's own listing.


When i started zonealarm i lost all my peers.

...

explain this concept of a localhost. What is the alternate?

Localhost just means your own PC.

PM me and we can take it to email if you like.

[zeroshadow]

It's not like you need to be lightning fast to view a simple web site that this topic was about.
Yeah, the web pages with text only or text with a few small images take almost no bandwidth to load. As soon as the developer gets some time to work the bugs out it it should be a really nice feature.

[tsafa1]

Version 0.9.4 released - http tunnel fix

Transfers now stop if browser is closed.

get jws version here:
http://www.myjavaserver.com/~gwren/Ants/antsp2p.jnlp
or installer here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/antsp2p/

[crackerjacker]

Version 0.9.4 released - http tunnel fix

Transfers now stop if browser is closed.

get jws version here:
http://www.myjavaserver.com/~gwren/Ants/antsp2p.jnlp
or installer here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/antsp2p/

hmm just a quick question if someone is actually hosting an anoymous web server via ants and if there is only one file source available, how can this be anoymous?

*just curious*
hmm
and to add to this if there is only one source for this file and u as an individual is running a web server, people would need a hash link or whatever to obtain this information, so no way it could even be anoymous, especially when one source is sending the file, and that is one file. Hence no relay proxying can be exhibited with respect to this file being sent.

[fnordprefect]

Because, the data is transpported via Ants to your browser so you can't tell what the real IP address of the hosting PC is.

For someone who claimed to be able to break Ants' anonymity/deniablity, you seem to know very little about it.

[crackerjacker]

Because, the data is transpported via Ants to your browser so you can't tell what the real IP address of the hosting PC is.

For someone who claimed to be able to break Ants' anonymity/deniablity, you seem to know very little about it.

hmm I know more then u could imagine.
u obvious dont understand the question and right off the back u dont know what the hell i am talking about, because if u did, their is no way that it could be anoymous ok.

so get real
i know what i am talking about. i am no newbie ok

and what i am stating once again
hmm just a quick question if someone is actually hosting an anoymous web server via ants and if there is only one file source available, how can this be anoymous?

*just curious*
hmm
and to add to this if there is only one source for this file and u as an individual is running a web server, people would need a hash link or whatever to obtain this information, so no way it could even be anoymous, especially when one source is sending the file, and that is one file. Hence no relay proxying can be exhibited with respect to this file being sent.

[aqlo]

CJ once the thingie comes from this single-source deal, doesn't it then slowly work its way through ants to you? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but I think you ask ants for the "website" name and it gives you the content much the same way it does a file. Am I missing something?

[crackerjacker]

CJ once the thingie comes from this single-source deal, doesn't it then slowly work its way through ants to you? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but I think you ask ants for the "website" name and it gives you the content much the same way it does a file. Am I missing something?

Lets see.
If their is one user that is sharing their rare file via ants and has a web server, then the hash can be giving out for the file , but the original person who is sharing the rare file can be the only who will upload the file originally, which in turn will leave no anoymity because no one is proxin or relayin the data on behalf of another user, so their is no anoymity.

even if there were two users, 500 users, 1000 users there is still no anomity either because u can easily sniff out the ip addresses of the users sending the data man from that original point.

hmm

[eivioolla]

The point is that the hash links are provided in anonymous manner. ShareReactor didn't share the files, only the hash links. It's up to other users, not the hash link provider, to share the actual files, which is not anonymous if it's done in regular networks.

[fnordprefect]

Crackerjacker has no idea how it works.

OK: So you are an RIAA spy and you see a page hosted on Ants. You activate the built in proxy and view the page, with all it's copyright infringing goodness.

You are monitoring your node's traffic naturally. Now, how do you know that the IP address sending you the data is the original sender and not just a relaying proxy, answer is: You don't because the data is coming through the AntsNet which is an adhoc network composed of proxies.

[crackerjacker]

Crackerjacker has no idea how it works.

OK: So you are an RIAA spy and you see a page hosted on Ants. You activate the built in proxy and view the page, with all it's copyright infringing goodness.

You are monitoring your node's traffic naturally. Now, how do you know that the IP address sending you the data is the original sender and not just a relaying proxy, answer is: You don't because the data is coming through the AntsNet which is an adhoc network composed of proxies.
Um ants is not anoymous therefore your statement is not valid.
If you wanna be smart and objective you would stop talking useless stuff.
You can present facts, but u obviously didnt.
Personally i know ants is not anoymous, and I dont care if u or anyone else says it is, I will always say it isnt, because I know the real truth.

The point is that the hash links are provided in anonymous manner. ShareReactor didn't share the files, only the hash links. It's up to other users, not the hash link provider, to share the actual files, which is not anonymous if it's done in regular networks.

hash links are just hashes of files, the point or issue that the files being uploaded are not anoymous.

Ants isnt anoymous anyways, if u wanna believe that is fine.

[eivioolla]

hash links are just hashes of files, the point or issue that the files being uploaded are not anoymous.

Yes but the issue is also that sites that provide hash links are being closed down by the MPAA. That is what the topic was about. ANTs is too slow to share the actual files, but web sites are small and could easily be shared in this manner.

[fnordprefect]

Um ants is not anoymous therefore your statement is not valid.
If you wanna be smart and objective you would stop talking useless stuff.
You can present facts, but u obviously didnt.
Personally i know ants is not anoymous, and I dont care if u or anyone else says it is, I will always say it isnt, because I know the real truth.

hash links are just hashes of files, the point or issue that the files being uploaded are not anoymous.

Ants isnt anoymous anyways, if u wanna believe that is fine.

You tell me to present facts, but all you've presented here is assertion. Lets have some facts then. If you can't present some facts backed up by more than just someone's say-so in your next reply to this thread, I and everyone reading will know you are full of it.

[Abyss00]

CJ once the thingie comes from this single-source deal, doesn't it then slowly work its way through ants to you? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but I think you ask ants for the "website" name and it gives you the content much the same way it does a file. Am I missing something?
No you are not missing anything that is exactly right. The website files are transfered to your through the same anonymous method as the normal files.


Um ants is not anoymous therefore your statement is not valid. ...
Personally i know ants is not anoymous...
Good joke but it would have been better if you could have worked your title, "blow it out of your arse" in there somehow.

[crackerjacker]

You tell me to present facts, but all you've presented here is assertion. Lets have some facts then. If you can't present some facts backed up by more than just someone's say-so in your next reply to this thread, I and everyone reading will know you are full of it.

I dont need to prove to you that its anoymous, since its a known fact, who are you trying to kid!
I wont reply no more to this because you dont know anything.
The only ones full of it is *ants* if you dont like my opinion to bad its true.
I know what is anoymous ant this isnt.

[crackerjacker]

No you are not missing anything that is exactly right. The website files are transfered to your through the same anonymous method as the normal files.



Good joke but it would have been better if you could have worked your title, "blow it out of your arse" in there somehow.

hi troll or say clone. u to chicken to post as your real name?
i wont respond to u either.
u can blow it out of your ass.

i am glad you like my avatar because it truely signifies what i think of vapor programs that claim anoymity when there is none, so u kindly blow it out of your arse.

last response from me cuz i have no time to play games.
i presented my opinion and u and whomever wants to state i am wrong, when i know what i am talking about.
so go head clone aid or whatever and u and your 30 little ants users embark on the next so called generation p2p .

haha
nuff said
and i do offer u a nice cup of stfu.
cheers

[fnordprefect]

I dont need to prove to you that its anoymous, since its a known fact, who are you trying to kid!
I wont reply no more to this because you dont know anything.
The only ones full of it is *ants* if you dont like my opinion to bad its true.
I know what is anoymous ant this isnt.

Thankyou for making my point for me.

[Abyss00]

u to chicken to post as your real name?
Abyss00 is just as much my real as crackerjacker is yours.
If you ment accounts I have only one with Zeropaid, ask an admin or someone that can see the IPs.


i am glad you like my avatar because it truely signifies what i think of vapor programs that claim anoymity when there is none, so u kindly blow it out of your arse.
Better, "vapor programs", "anoymity when there is none" definately better you got the blatant disregard for facts going on good, but you lost me with the avatar thing since I was talking about your title not avatar and I have never seen your avatar, but you did work the title in after all and you are "kindly blow it" too. I would say a 7 out of 10.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/abyss00/buthead.jpg

[crackerjacker]

Abyss00 is just much my real as crackerjacker is yours.
If you ment accounts I have only one with Zeropaid, ask an admin or someone that can see the IPs.



Better, "vapor programs", "anoymity when there is none" definately better you got the blatant disregard for facts going on good, but you lost me with the avatar thing since I was talking about your title not avatar and I have never seen your avatar, but you did work the title in after all and you are "kindly blow it" too. I would say a 7 out of 10.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/abyss00/buthead.jpg


http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/images/buttons/reply_small.gif

[crackerjacker]

Abyss00 is just as much my real as crackerjacker is yours.
If you ment accounts I have only one with Zeropaid, ask an admin or someone that can see the IPs.



Better, "vapor programs", "anoymity when there is none" definately better you got the blatant disregard for facts going on good, but you lost me with the avatar thing since I was talking about your title not avatar and I have never seen your avatar, but you did work the title in after all and you are "kindly blow it" too. I would say a 7 out of 10.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/abyss00/buthead.jpg

its avatar title whoope i forgot to add teh avatar title *i said avatar thing* so u can blow it out of your arse.
btw just for the record you can say whats good to you, and i will say what p2p program is good for me.
nuff said

[crackerjacker]

matter of fact just to be cool about it u can use what ever p2p program u want but i have the right to say if the program ants is not anoymous its my right to say it, u can tell me i am wrong. i will just say what i feel is real.
no more on my end.
peace

[Abyss00]

and i will say what p2p program is good for me.
If Ants is so good for you why spend so much time posting here?

[Abyss00]

matter of fact just to be cool about it u can use what ever p2p program u want but i have the right to say if the program ants is not anoymous its my right to say it, u can tell me i am wrong. i will just say what i feel is real.
no more on my end.
peace
Of course you can say whatever you want. But considering the amount of documentation and discussion on both the Mute and Ants websites and other places you need to back up with you say with at least a little fact or you sound like the ES5 crap that was full of wild claims and no facts.

[crackerjacker]

If Ants is so good for you why spend so much time posting here?
lol do u know what kinda questin u just ask me?

hmm

[aqlo]

Ok I get the argument now. The "website" is received through a proxy chain, giving it more protection than a normal real website like say suprnova.com had. This is at a cost in time just like downloading content, but the cost is negligible because a list of hashes or links is so much smaller than actual songs and movies. On the other hand, once you get an eAss hash or a .torrent or whatever, the person actually seeding or sharing that file does not benefit from the proxy chain at all, they have all the liabilities that they always had. Essentially, ants is being offered as protection for the tracker or linker, not the actual sharers; i e a pseudo-anonymous replacement for suprnova, but not for bittorrent itself. In a case like this, whatever protection you have when searching for the torrent or hash disappears as soon as you start downloading because you are sharing partials using whichever network the file is on, not the ants network. Got it?

[Abyss00]

lol do u know what kinda questin u just ask me?

hmm
No idea. I am totally innocent. Yep. :D

[Abyss00]

Ok I get the argument now. The "website" is received through a proxy chain, giving it more protection than a normal real website like say suprnova.com had. This is at a cost in time just like downloading content, but the cost is negligible because a list of hashes or links is so much smaller than actual songs and movies.

Yeah, the website can be just text listings of hashs. Even on a slow program those will download fast. Hopefully the latest fix in 0.9.4 will help out the http speed some. Normal link site like suprnova and eDonkey link sites have no protection, but the website through Ants have better protection then anything I know of except Freenet. I2P and Tor are both also working on anonymous http.


On the other hand, once you get an eAss hash or a .torrent or whatever, the person actually seeding or sharing that file does not benefit from the proxy chain at all, they have all the liabilities that they always had. Essentially, ants is being offered as protection for the tracker or linker, not the actual sharers; i e a pseudo-anonymous replacement for suprnova, but not for bittorrent itself. In a case like this, whatever protection you have when searching for the torrent or hash disappears as soon as you start downloading because you are sharing partials using whichever network the file is on, not the ants network. Got it?

Yeah, that is right, but the hash file can also be an ants file and would then be anonymous. But currently the Ants betas are still downloading pretty slow so large files are hard to download.

[fnordprefect]

matter of fact just to be cool about it u can use what ever p2p program u want but i have the right to say if the program ants is not anoymous its my right to say it, u can tell me i am wrong. i will just say what i feel is real.
no more on my end.
peace

You seem to be unaware of the difference between knowing a fact, and feeling something to be true.

There is a difference, a very important one at that.

[crackerjacker]

You seem to be unaware of the difference between knowing a fact, and feeling something to be true.

There is a difference, a very important one at that.

No you dont understand what u deem to be fact, is not.
lets get real u can easily obtain persons ip address when they sending the file.
that is the bottom line, nothing rocket scientist about this.

just facts
lol

[Abyss00]

u can easily obtain persons ip address when they sending the file.
Ok, you are right if I send you a file you will know my IP.

But if I proxy the file to hell and back how are you going to be able to know what my IP is then?

And don't forget that the number of proxies it takes to get to hell and back is always changing.

[eivioolla]

There is no point arguing with cj, she has been repeating the same mantra with nothing to back it up for at least a year in every single thread even remotely related to 3rd gen apps. The best way is to simply ignore it. Forums could use an IRC type ignore list...

[Abyss00]

Ant is not completely anonymous, nothing is, but it is anonymous enough that they can't tell if you live in hell and just proxy things or if you are really the one sending the file.

[Abyss00]

There is no point arguing with cj, she has been repeating the same mantra with nothing to back it up for at least a year in every single thread even remotely related to 3rd gen apps.

And here I thought cj was just trying to cover up how good for her Ants really was by joking about it. :;)

[crackerjacker]

There is no point arguing with cj, she has been repeating the same mantra with nothing to back it up for at least a year in every single thread even remotely related to 3rd gen apps. The best way is to simply ignore it. Forums could use an IRC type ignore list...

thats a lie eivioolla i already stated what needed to be stated in past threads.
there is no 3rd generation applications, but hey if u wanna say 5 th or 100 millionth generation for all that matter its cool.

btw eiviolla are u affiliated with es5?
hmm i dunno seems the spam is quite similiar

[crackerjacker]

Ant is not completely anonymous, nothing is, but it is anonymous enough that they can't tell if you live in hell and just proxy things or if you are really the one sending the file.

the truth tho is its not anoymous, remember riaa/mpaa have people logging ip addresses. if u feel that ants is safe fine, but point is its not.

eh whatever floats your boat. just because u dont want to hear what i say, which is truthful that is your right but i have nothing to prove to no one.

i will however state that its all good.
hmm do i have ants in my pants, haha
whatever

u call it anoymous, i call it a lie

[Abyss00]

the truth tho is its not anoymous, remember riaa/mpaa have people logging ip addresses. if u feel that ants is safe fine, but point is its not.
Ok so you don't feel that ants is safe and I did admit that Ants is "not completely anonymous". So tell me this, what p2p program do you think is safer then Ants, less likely to get busted while using, and harder to link UL/DLs to IPs? It only needs to be opensource and have betas available to test. I would be happy to test out any program that is safer then Ants.

I am currently using Freenet, Ants, Mute, I2P, Winny, GNUnet, Waste, and a private DC hub. All of which are known to be safer then your average p2p app.

I would never touch programs like ES5, Kazaa or Exeem.


i will however state that its all good.
hmm do i have ants in my pants, haha

I knew Ants was good for you.

[tsafa1]

i thought we came up with a good definition that everyone was happy with in saying that Ants gives you denability is an American or European style court system. You have denyability because people can not tell if you are uploading, downloading or just proxying information. In most of the civilized world you are not repsonsible for what is transfered through your property without your knowledge (proxying) . If you live somewhere where p2p is illegal or it is illegal to proxy (like Iran) then ants can not protect you. If you are a terroist, that falls outside the court system, into the war department and again Ants can not protect you.

It is fairly safe to say that on ants you are safe to trade music and movies because they won't send commando's after you to kill you and hide your body.

Did i leave anything out?

[infringer]

Heh one thing is that its the most annoymous thing that there is to date as far as open networks go that are not private.

-infringer-

[fnordprefect]

No you dont understand what u deem to be fact, is not.
lets get real u can easily obtain persons ip address when they sending the file.
that is the bottom line, nothing rocket scientist about this.

just facts
lol

More nonsense from CJ.

I don't "deem" anything. I accept claims made by the Ants programmer based on available evidence. If some better evidence to the contrary comes along, I'll revise my opinion of Ants. Your pontificating has so far not included any such evidence.

You state something as fact (and then later admit that you "feel it to be true", as if that means anything) but do not back it up. It might even be a fact, but until you can back it up with solid evidence then it's nothing but hot air.

A sends a file thru Ants to B. You are saying that it is easy for B to obtain the address of A. That would be true if the file was going directly from A to B.

On the Ants net, files move through proxies. e.g. A to X to Y to B. So B can only know the address of Y in this scenario.
Now it's quite possible on the Ants net that there is a direct connection and the file is going directly from A to B.
But, and it's the crucial but... you have no way of knowing whether the address you have just harvested is the sender A or proxy Y.

It's really a very simple concept CJ. If you can't point out the flaw in this model then it will be just more evidence that you are full of it. I'm getting tired of your trolling.

[CactusChris]

The discussion is around the word anonymous - and because of the IRC and webcache ip lists that are available CJ objects to the word. In truth she is probably correct - which is why Tsafa added the denyability ststement. It is safe to say that so far no-one has been able to link a file to an IP address because of the use of proxying Virtual ip addresses in use. In that way (accessing files) the use of ANts becomes anonymous - but users can be seen to be on the ANts network.
bloody semantics....
Regards
Chris

[fnordprefect]

Yeah, it's a bit too nuanced for someone of CJ's elementary debating skills.

option 1: Glass half full.
option 2; Glass half empty.
CJ: "Hey, I ordered a cheeseburger!"
/Larson

[aqlo]

Cheeseburgers are good

[crackerjacker]

Cheeseburgers are good
cheese burgers are good though.
I like onions on mine yum and some ketchup

[tsafa1]

This is what Gwren said regaurding routing in a discusion:

Someone said> The routing will naturly find the closest path.

Gwren:
I never said this!
I always talked about LESS LOADED PATH... the less loaded path could be
one path passing through 5 nodes even if you are DIRECT CONNECTED to
your source. It depends on the net state in every moment and on the
messages being routed in your neighborhood.

This should also solve the Nate's doubt about "programs that perform
direct connections on regular basis", you should agree that ANts is not
one of them... cuz of the less loaded policy and the randomness of the
walk: having any kind of activity on some of your neighbours (condition
needed to not perform the walk) doesn't mean you are directly connected
to your sources... you perform upload and download in MUTE without being
direct connected, isn't it? So in ANts it's the same, you can easily
find a neighbor configuration that let you have activity WITHOUT being
directly connected to your sources. Actually you can also find such a
configuration but where you ARE directly connected to a source. So in a
few words, you cannot tell it... that is exactly what we want! No clues
about your neighborhood!

[CactusChris]

Has this got any bearing on trying to ensure that we are secure???
http://www.stealth-attacks.info/

Perhaps this technology could be used to fight MIM attacks.

Regards
Chris

[fnordprefect]

The Slashdot (http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/22/215209&tid=172&tid=95) hordes didn't think much of it.

[Abyss00]

This thread really needs to be sticked or pinned because of the tutorial in the second post.

[tsafa1]

i agree this belongs at the top