Ants needs a Bit-Torrent plug-in

[tsafa1]

Ants is an anonymous p2p program with swarming and partial file sharing capabilities. Te preogrammer, Gwren, has said that it is torrent ready and only needs a plug in to support torrents. He is too busy improving the core protocol to do it now.

It should not be hard or any good programmer (which i am not) to do. All you need to know is java and be familiar with how torrents works. Ants is open source.

The anonnymous nataure of ants might be just what bit torrent needs.

[Hornet]

This is the same crap I deleted from the Slyck forums just a few minutes ago...how interesting.
Slycktom - not so slyck - this is the Bit torrent forum. You know where bit torrent users discuss technical bit torrent developments such as a bit torrent plugin for a proxy network (ANts).

I thought news sites like Slyck were meant to be fair and balanced.

Instead of flaming why don't you make a sensible comment, like pointing out that azereus bit torrent client is also written in Java and is opensource, like ANts and so Tsafa should contact its developers.

It seems that journalism is dead at Slyck.

I think Zeropaid has taken over; the biggest, the best and the most impartial.

Hornet

[Watchmen]

Slyck was perfectly justified in removing this from their forum. This post would be more appropriate in the Ants forum then there would be no objection.

[Watchmen]

This is interesting. why did you delete your post, SlyckTom?

[Slycktom]

I didnt delete my post, it must have been modded out. Ironic actually :-D

[aqlo]

Right, I was thinking just the other day, damn this torrent isn't slow enough
:mellow

[Hornet]

Right, I was thinking just the other day, damn this torrent isn't slow enough
:mellow

LOL


Slyck was perfectly justified in removing this from their forum. This post would be more appropriate in the Ants forum then there would be no objection.

I agree this post would be better in ANts forum on Zeropaid.

No need to post to Syck as 1)Don't have ANts forum and 2)Even if they did they would remove post, lock thread, ban user and accuse him of spamming :) and 3)They hate anonymous p2p in the Syck fiefdom.

Hornet

[The Hunter]

Point one, dont involve slyck in this discusion, IE no trolling other forums. Now it was not personal, but as I received a complaint about your post I removed it. So you can blame me. I just didnt want any back and forth fighting between the sites. Again it was not a personal thing in the least.

[AussieMatt]

In Toms defence he has shut down topics that are against Ants and annonymous p2p on his forums .
The original post should'nt have been posted on many p2p forums and should of been posted in the Ants forum first and then if there where disscussion maybe post in another forum, because most people that interested in the development of p2p apps will read the appropriate forum if they so wish.
It is a shame that people cant disscuss annomous p2p without there being alot of flaming from a handfull of users back and forth .

[The Hunter]

Oh Im not knocking Tom at all, and think he runs a great site. Im just trying to prevent this back and forth crap.

[Hornet]

Ants is an anonymous p2p program with swarming and partial file sharing capabilities. Te preogrammer, Gwren, has said that it is torrent ready and only needs a plug in to support torrents. He is too busy improving the core protocol to do it now.

It should not be hard or any good programmer (which i am not) to do. All you need to know is java and be familiar with how torrents works. Ants is open source.

The anonnymous nataure of ants might be just what bit torrent needs.

Aussiematt could we get back on topic here :)

We need your vast knowledge, clear thinking, diplomatic ability and research genius to solve this one.

Tom's OK he can stand up for himself he doesn't need you to defend him :)
(So don't be distracted)

Is it possible to add a bit torrent plugin to ants?

Could the developers at Azereus do it?

Thanks in advance

Hornet

[tsafa1]

My commet was posted in the Bit-torrent forem because I felt that this would benefit Bit-Torrent more then Ants given the attacks on SuperNova. Also because this would have to be developed by bit-torrent programers who know how bit-torrent works. I do not expect Ant people to know how to make torrents.

Hornet, thank you for telling me that Azereus is an open source Java bit-torrent client. That is exaclty the information i was looking for. I will do a google search and try to find the right person to email. If anyone knows, please post here.

[AussieMatt]

Azurues has a guide to using TOR on thier website with so im sure they are working toward to provide some sort of annominity in Bittorent already .

http://azureus.sourceforge.net/doc/AnonBT/

[AussieMatt]

Looks Like grwen is alrady onto this plugin so let the developers sort it out

http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1189812&forum_id=377614

[Hornet]

Good spot AussieMatt.

Hornet

[Siskabush]

Ants is an anonymous p2p program with swarming and partial file sharing capabilities. Te preogrammer, Gwren, has said that it is torrent ready and only needs a plug in to support torrents. He is too busy improving the core protocol to do it now.

It should not be hard or any good programmer (which i am not) to do. All you need to know is java and be familiar with how torrents works. Ants is open source.

The anonnymous nataure of ants might be just what bit torrent needs.

This sounds more like an ad for ANts then a thread for concepts.

[Hornet]

This sounds more like an ad for ANts then a thread for concepts.

Paranoid android - I bet you believe in every conspiracy theory going.

What I see is a p2p user asking bit torrent users to write a plug-in for his application.

Isn't this the type of post that zeropaid needs?

BTW before you start to worry I am just making an observation about your post not posting an ad about.......


Hornet
I am also a happy guy

[ABC_thellookoflove]

version 007 means:

jetiants is torrentready
jetiants has a nice gui
jetiants is stable
jetiants has a library for other p2p apps of the second generation.

but what ants do not have is: MEDIA!


We need a torrentplugin for swarming (Antzureus), or a connection to limewire or javamule.

Otherwise users will go back to where they find the media.

the age of testing mozart file should has gone now!

[Psilaxs]

Why does every fan boy of the newest networks want plug-ins for everything, just run bit torrent, running Bit torrent through ants will not make it anonymous. Bit torrent is NOT an anonymous network.

[Watchmen]

okay but wouldn't this defeat the purpose of ANts? The impression given me was that ANts was supposed to be for anonymity...not against it..by implementing a public protocol such as BT into ANts it seems you would risk giving up some of that security, no?

[Watchmen]

Also thanks for clearing up the reasoning behind why you posted this originally to the Bittorrent forum instead of Ants. That seems reasonable but keep in mind that the way in which is was worded it seemed like you were asking for BT plugin for ants rather than an ANts plugin for BT. Hence the controversy.

[tsafa1]

I got some feedback from Azureus. They are working on something anonymous with I2P. Thats good.

[tsafa1]

My thought is if someone can develope one realy good anonymous p2p program that gains a significant amount of users, then the RIAA/MPAA may stop their anti-p2p efforts. The reason? When it becomes clear to the RIAA/MPAA that users have a good anonymous alternative, they will reason that they have no posble chance for suscess. The best they could hope to do is shift users to that one program. If they have no theoretical chance for sucess, then they should by all logical reasoning drop their lawsuit actions. Then all p2p will be safe, even Kazaa. Remember they have to justify their expenses to their investors.

So I don't care who is finaly sucessfull, Ants, Mute, Winny, IP2, Nodzilla, Freenet as long as one is. It just so happen that at the momownt i see the most progress on a daily basis from Gwren at Ants.

[Watchmen]

My thought is if someone can develope one realy good anonymous p2p program that gains a significant amount of users, then the RIAA/MPAA may stop their anti-p2p efforts. The reason? When it becomes clear to the RIAA/MPAA that users have a good anonymous alternative, they will reason that they have no posble chance for suscess. The best they could hope to do is shift users to that one program. If they have no theoretical chance for sucess, then they should by all logical reasoning drop their lawsuit actions. Then all p2p will be safe, even Kazaa. Remember they have to justify their expenses to their investors.

So I don't care who is finaly sucessfull, Ants, Mute, Winny, IP2, Nodzilla, Freenet as long as one is. It just so happen that at the momownt i see the most progress on a daily basis from Gwren at Ants.

that's cool...nothing wrong with that. Are you the same tsafa from the es5 forums and the same one who used to post here before under the name tsafa?

Edit:
"Tsafa" never posted to the es5 forums. I was mistakenly associating the nick 'Tauta' with this user's name. My mistake and its obvious from looking at his join date for zeropaid that he is indeed the same Tsafa we are familiar with from his numerous comments in the news section of zeropaid.

[crackerjacker]

Why does every fan boy of the newest networks want plug-ins for everything, just run bit torrent, running Bit torrent through ants will not make it anonymous. Bit torrent is NOT an anonymous network.

hmm a nice but plug would do justice for them too.
peace

[ABC_thellookoflove]

we do not need a plug for ants
we need a plug for azureus

ants will never has a 2-generation plugin, if azureus is willing to implement something.

[tsafa1]

In light of the anticipated Bit-torrent crackdown, I hope some or the bit-torrent programmers take a serious look at this posible solution. If nothing else they can use the http tunnel in ants to seed there network.

I also think that this pending crackdown may be a deversion to stir things up and expose them, it is not usual for law enforcement agencies to pre-annouce their activites. I doubt it will happen now, but it will happen.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

azureus has a new plugin system with new version from today 2.2.
so ready for an ants plugin.

the project page for this plugin see

http://sourceforge.net/projects/antzureus/


So ants doe sNOT need a bt-plugin, but azureus needs an ANTS plugin.
the project has already a projectpage.

jave developers should join the project.

[tsafa1]

quote from the azureus forum:

Also torrent search would be nice for ants
but it have to search all three
.torrent filename,
torrent name and
files inside torrents.

Because torrent name and .torrent filename can be anything you set them.

>I would recommend, that gwren is making a search category for these three torrent extensions

Torrents, which are maide with www.torrentaid.com contain an ed2k hash, this hash shoudl be found as well by ants inside the torrent.

So.-.- lucence search cache should give back as well a hash queryhit for hashes inside torrents, which were made with ww.torrentaid,com

the sha2 hash coudl be mentined as well as well as the filename of the torrents mediafile.

Gwren we need this for the next update please.

thanks

[tsafa1]

d00d why are you listed as the author of Ants here (http://freshmeat.net/projects/ants/)?


That is WRONG. I will attemp to contact the site and change that. Thanks for pointing it out. Someone probably say one of my posts on zeropaid and missintepeted.

[tsafa1]

If anyone in this forum made that post. Please change the info. It requires a password to change it. I don't want whings to get messy.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

there is a draft for anonymous bittorrent out with anonymous
downloading and seeding

>
>first draft of antzureus RFC 1.0.0.1. is out
>https://sourceforge.net/projects/antzureus/
>comments are welcome
>


In a message dated 1/14/2005 6:45:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, <cefn.hoile@bt.com> writes:

[ANtsP2P]

there is a draft for anonymous bittorrent out with anonymous
downloading and seeding

>
>first draft of antzureus RFC 1.0.0.1. is out
>https://sourceforge.net/projects/antzureus/
>comments are welcome
>


In a message dated 1/14/2005 6:45:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, <cefn.hoile@bt.com> writes:

I've read the RFC.

So can ABC or anyone else explain:
the size and format of bittorent partials (chunks)
the hashing scheme used for Bit Torrent (chunk size and type of hash)
what format is going to be used for common parials i.e partials that can be used in both BT and ANts P2P

BTW ANts uses a tree hash system with two layers: a root hash and many sub hashes over fixed size chunks (320k). The root hash is computed over these sub hashes.
The system is a special purpose tree hash adapted to fit ANts net needs... it is not an implementation of any standard tree hash system (tigertree or whatelse).

I suppose that by "swarming common partials" the RFC writer means that BT and ANts plugin will work co-operativley to download different common partials (chunks) with no duplication?

Does BitTorrent protocol uses 256 KB chunks?
Does BitTorrent use cryptographic hashing (SHA1) of all data?
Does Ants use SHA1 to hash its chunks and root?
So are you suggesting chunk size of 1600 KB for common partial?

Good to see you doing some work ABC_thellookoflove rather than just rehashing the same ideas over and ever again.

Have you looked at how the edonkey 2k bit torrent plugin works? :fire

[ABC_thellookoflove]

For the purposes of transfer, files are split into fixed-size pieces which are all the same length except for possibly the last one which may be truncated. Piece length is almost always a power of two, most commonly 218 = 256 K (BitTorrent prior to version 3.2 uses 220 = 1 M as default).

pieces maps to a string whose length is a multiple of 20. It is to be subdivided into strings of length 20, each of which is the SHA1 hash of the piece at the corresponding index.

http://bittorrent.com/protocol.html

> BitTorrent protocol uses 256 KB chunks

dont think it is flat hashing over the full file piecies map ?

ants does not use sha1, Gwren should implement this, but he is very futile to implement magnet links.

is 1600 the common base then?

This all is a very lat project step, but you are right, this has to be more detailed.

Orphan from ed2k bt plugin can help!

Maybe the chunk size shoudl be as well regarded in spite of ed2k partials of shareaza edonkey emule and bt-ed2k-plugin.

If ants is swarmable with mute and mute is hybrid with emule, then this comes ito the frame.
(as well see aich hash for emule).

We need a definition of the chunksize, yes.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

ok I installed ed2k BT plugin once again and tested it.
I read the RFC too and the main strategic claim is, to get seeding and releasing into 3. generation, so that (whole) 2. p2p generation is leeching. Strategically, if the ed2k BT plugin has as well the ants network inside, all would be brought back to ed2k, the MOTHER. Would be a hard job for orphan to code this java network in c++ and then as well inside the Ed2k BT plugin in the tab of BT "overview".
But strategically it would be great for the network and the client. code that could be used for gaim fs plugin as well. Though antzureus´ gui will be made quicker with eclipse.org

[ABC_thellookoflove]

òk this is the most read thread, yes we need a combinition of ants and bittorrent,
but not in the ants client, this is "downgrading".
We ned second generation BT app "Upgrading", this means to implement the ants protocol.
See this thread, about azureus integrating the ants protocol.
this is the right way. not ants client with a BT plugin, we need ViceVersa a BT app with an ants plugin, see here:
http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=25963

[tsafa1]

This needs to come out of the Bit-torrent community as a plug-in for their program.

The hashes in ants work similar to torrent seeders. And ants already has partial filesharing. In Ants we can post hashes in the anonymous http tunnel for people to search by.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

ants has a big bug, and this is, that the ed2k hash is not sahred remote.
only ants links are shared remote, so swarming from all, bt and ed2k will not work,
Why is the ed2k-link hash not reomote shared ?

[tsafa1]

i don't fully unserstand what you mean. geive me an example.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

if you open up the remote library with notepad editor, you see the filename plus md flat hashing, so the ants link hash.
BUT NOT THE ED2K HASH. So searching for the ed2k hash needs to travel around till you find the source. but it is not in the remote shared library. This should be done as well into the remote shared index, then hash searches will find much more quicker a neighbour of a source.

[tsafa1]

i sent an email to gwren on this