NO Kiddie Porn on ANts

[ezzye]

Ethics are not normally thought about when developing a file sharing applciation but ANts so simply and powerfully protects user PRIVACY that I think it needs to be considered.

No file sharing application can CREATE social problems but good ones should help to alleviate problems.

Users should be able EASILY to screen out undesirable search results. ANts should ship with a default White and Black List set to include MP3 only and to filter out known kiddie porn terms. The USER, then dependant on their situation can edit or delete these lists.

I would like to see ANts rolled out to universities campuses in US and UK but what is going to be an obsticle is the current content of network.

What is needed is password protected white and black list so that the USER can decide (rather than other users) what they see in search results.

White and Black lists are filters for serach results that a USER sets.

A white list, lists the terms or words that are allowed to be in a search result. So by their nature they are very restrictive. For example users exchanging satellite receiving card keys may have a white list allowing only items containg the word "key".

A black list, lists the terms and words that are not allowed to be in a search term. So by their nature are less restrictive. For example for uses in public place black listed words could include: querty, lolita, illegal and "barely legal" etc

Real freedom comes from choice so users should be allowed to choose.

ANts has given users their privacy back what it now needs is to give them the tools to choose what results they see in queries.

ANts website quotes the following


"I worry about my child and the Internet all the time, even though she's too young to have logged on yet.
Here's what I worry about. I worry that 10 or 15 years from now, she will come to me and say 'Daddy, where
were you when they took freedom of the press away from the Internet?'"
--Mike Godwin, Electronic Frontier Foundation

I too worry about my children.

[Christoph]

true...black list should be avaibel for p2p programs.but white lists?then the idea of p2p would die.there is also a problem with white lists,the music industry could say,if you make a black list for bad words(kiddy porn etc.) you can make a blakc list for our protected music!
no kiddy porns and bad killings on internet would be great.but how will you end this things on a free network?

[AussieMatt]

If you can control content on a network then you have lost to the likes of the RIAA and MPAA then they go after the developer even though grwen isnt in the US the Federazione Industria Musicale Italiana could as he is in Italy .Kazaa is going through the same thing at this very moment in Australia. The Australian Record Indusrty Assocition is in court today with Kazaa to prove Kazaa can control content on the network.
If you are debating about child porn if a file isnt requested on Ants it going to be hard to find it becuse of the routing technique ants uses makes it hard to find less popualr files as they dont end up in Distriuted hash tables as often and thier route is hard to find .Freenet seems to have become a haven for child porn on the net becuse its pretty much unusable for anything else .So the best thing is use this network as you would any other .

[ezzye]

If you can control content on a network then you have lost to the likes of the RIAA and MPAA then they go after the developer even though grwen isnt in the US the Federazione Industria Musicale Italiana could as he is in Italy .Kazaa is going through the same thing at this very moment in Australia. The Australian Record Indusrty Assocition is in court today with Kazaa to prove Kazaa can control content on the network.
If you are debating about child porn if a file isnt requested on Ants it going to be hard to find it becuse of the routing technique ants uses makes it hard to find less popualr files as they dont end up in Distriuted hash tables as often and thier route is hard to find .Freenet seems to have become a haven for child porn on the net becuse its pretty much unusable for anything else .So the best thing is use this network as you would any other .


For once AussieMatt you have mis-read what I have posted.

I did not say control content on the network all I said was to give the user the ability to filter search results to exclude or include specified words and/or phrases.

This is not revolutionary.

But it would enable me to promote this software to everyone without having to constantly defend myself because when they did a search for MP3 it finds dozens of copies of mother and son incest which have been labelled mp3.

When this happens in other file sharing software the standard reply is to report the person sharing such dubious content to authorities as you can easily find their ip.

You can't see their ip on ANts.

On ANts you have to live and let live.

But that does not and should not mean that you have to see these dubious items in innocent search results.

To me that is the tyranny of the few on the many.

It's no biggie but it would allow me recomend it to more users if it had this feature.

[AussieMatt]

Ok then they try target the users by getting the Fed's involved who have far more resources and less legal barriers in thier way than a Industry Assoiation does and they try and crack the network.It happened in the US with a DC Connect community why not throw a tonne of federal resources from the Justice department at Ants .The RIAA and MPAA lobby US senators like Orin Hatch and tell them that p2p in general is a haven for child porn and terrorist propaganda.John Ashcroft ,a rabid fundementalist cristian who is Attorney Gerneral of the US at the momnet ,approved going after p2p users becuse of his own cristain belifs and the propaganda the entertainment assoiations gave him, he would prefer ther be no porn on p2p he covered up classic naked statues in the Justice department becuse they offended him.
FIMA could make Grwen put in filter lists through legal threats and actions if he has them implimented on the network for users its important that Ants remains open source and the current source code is shared by every user so if thier is a legal problem we have it also a development team needs to be crated so one developer isnt targeted by the Authorities or Industry Associations .

[Malakai1911]

It's called skipping over the files that are undesirable. If gay porn comes up in a search result and you find it offensive or abhorrent, you skip it. Same thing here, easy to do.

[muffenme]

:fire

I can think of one problem to this, a file not marked as kiddie porn could slip though therefore it is imposable to filter out kiddie porn. eg Young nudies 001.jpg, under jackson age 001.gif. The word child, kid, kiddie, etc don't apear. The second one has under age in it but is broken up by a last name. The only way kiddie porn can be stop is in two way, get the people who make this stuff, 2 is to have someone check each image that a person has and banning that person for having kiddie porn. They haven't found a way to do either one so we are going to still have kiddie porn even if it not called kiddie porn.
If they could find a software that the p2p could use to check the picture for this type of porn then the RIAA, MPAA, etc would have them check for matterral that they don't want on the p2p also and you would end up with no good files being shared.

:hole

[AussieMatt]

Ants already uses the Lucene Search Engine and if you use the Lucene Syntax you can search and include or exclude results using the correct Lucene Syntax, so you would be better educating people how to use this syntax intaed of talking about black and white lists .Grwen did suggest he may make a wizzard for Lucene searches in the future so word exclusion/inclusion lists may be able to be saved by the user.
For more infomation on Lucene Searches look in the Ants Tutorial in Uplaoding and Downlaoding

[ezzye]

Uh hum. I think you are making this into a bigger issue than it is.

All I want is a filter. I already carefully construct searches in ANts like: "+abba +greatest +hits" and I still get dubious files in the results because some people like to add popular search items to the names of their files so THAT THEY COME UP IN INNOCENT SEARCH RESULTS.

I have no problem with this. I can cope. As a previous poster said you can just skip over it - ignore it.

However, It does not reflect well on me when I recommend ANts to the guys at work and some of them try it and what they get is the normal results PLUS dubious files.

I know dubious files is not what ANts is about and I sure all Zeropaid posters also know this but the average techie guy in the street might get the wrong idea when confronted by these files.

What does he do then - he can't find IP of the source. There should be an easy way to ignore these results. So that if they come up it is because someone has made a conscious decision to seach for such items.

It is not a biggie.

ANts is great I just want everyone else to think so as well.

Privacy is a right and I'm not challenging that - I just want to be able to filter my search results without having to construct a monster complex string!

[Malakai1911]

Uh hum. I think you are making this into a bigger issue than it is.

We weren't the ones who are declaring this ordeal a tyrrany.

[aqlo]

I'm going to try to break this down systematically, so as to not confuse the different issues involved.

a) Sure ants should have user-filtering, and not just + and - but filter lists exactly like you are describing. A lot of the actual working useful p2ps have this sort of stuff already, and they are very beneficial.

b) But that has nothing to do with the reason you cannot "promote this software to everyone", you can't do that without resistance because it is FUCKING SPAM and we were sick of that already, why do you not get that? All your whiney posts everywhere trying to prey on fear and ignorance are unacceptable, they are going to be unacceptable no matter what. The reason people focus on the kiddyporn right now is because it annoys and frustrates you, and that is what you deserve, a taste of your own medicine. Stop making posts like this http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=23662 and grow a personality, the way things stand right now every time you post another 20 people or so opt to pass on this product and that is a damn shame, new products are interesting unless someone comes to your door and tries to shove them in your mouth at gunpoint.

c) Free speech, and particularly technical solutions to repression of speech, carry with them the burden of forms of expression that we might find abhorrent. Law enforcement makes use of the pictures that you are objecting to to find and rescue children at risk several times a year, it always makes the news, yet somehow people never get the message. The cops themselves have run numerous sites and groups promoting this content as a form of entrapment. People will NOT stop hurting children just because we close our eyes and pretend that it is not happening; we just won't be able to catch them as easily.

[ezzye]

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
aqlo - Good try at trying to shut this thread down by making it into a flame war.

BTW this is the ANts forum - A forum for users to discuss ANts.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[3rdgen]

But that has nothing to do with the reason you cannot "promote this software to everyone", you can't do that without resistance because it is FUCKING SPAM and we were sick of that already, why do you not get that? All your whiney posts everywhere trying to prey on fear and ignorance are unacceptable, they are going to be unacceptable no matter what. The reason people focus on the kiddyporn right now is because it annoys and frustrates you, and that is what you deserve, a taste of your own medicine. Stop making posts like this http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=23662 and grow a personality, the way things stand right now every time you post another 20 people or so opt to pass on this product and that is a damn shame, new products are interesting unless someone comes to your door and tries to shove them in your mouth at gunpoint.

I agree with aqlo. I think ezzye should be banned for SPAMMING.

We don't want to hear about crap like ants at zeropaid.
:devil2

[tsafa1]

The reason why napster was shut down is because it was prooven that their could theorticaly filter and censor files. Then everyone moved to decentralized p2p to make it imposible to filter files. One weekness in that is that fileshares could be held accountable for what they share. so the final solution is ad-hoc p2p (middle-man).

So now you guys are talking about going back to square one?!?!?!?! Right now Gwrens defense is that he just built a p2p program and he "does not know" how to filter copyrighted material. If he were to find a way to filter kiddie-porn then obviously that same aprouch can be aplied to music and movies. he would be creating a potential problem for himself and potential moving ants back to the age of napster.

[Psilaxs]

Uh hum. I think you are making this into a bigger issue than it is.

All I want is a filter. I already carefully construct searches in ANts like: "+abba +greatest +hits" and I still get dubious files in the results because some people like to add popular search items to the names of their files so THAT THEY COME UP IN INNOCENT SEARCH RESULTS.

I have no problem with this. I can cope. As a previous poster said you can just skip over it - ignore it.

However, It does not reflect well on me when I recommend ANts to the guys at work and some of them try it and what they get is the normal results PLUS dubious files.

I know dubious files is not what ANts is about and I sure all Zeropaid posters also know this but the average techie guy in the street might get the wrong idea when confronted by these files.

What does he do then - he can't find IP of the source. There should be an easy way to ignore these results. So that if they come up it is because someone has made a conscious decision to seach for such items.

It is not a biggie.

ANts is great I just want everyone else to think so as well.

Privacy is a right and I'm not challenging that - I just want to be able to filter my search results without having to construct a monster complex string!


What ever happened to just ignoring what you do not want, then sort alphabetically. So you can skip over "kiddie" "young" "nude" "whatever you find offensive"

Contrary to popular belief, people do not need machines to do EVERYTHING for them.

[Legin]

Why would "barely legal" be filter? The general idea there is to have pictures of individuals 18-21 years of age or so. Perfectly legal.

And any kind of list regardless of color would be easily defeated. The amount of words you would have censor would be ridiculous. You couldnt possibly keep up. Would you censor "teen"? Or what about foreign words like "kinder"? Or even more daunting, all the Japanese terms that must be in use. Youd have to get a list of popular child porn words and phrases for every language. Seems like an exercise in futility, really.

Then you have the fact that they can easily change the words they use to describe the file. Word would get out eventually what the new porn search terms are. Or they can mis-label the files entirely to "britney_spears_gets_socomized.jpg" or whatever for a file that has nothing to do with Britney Spear.

[wonderboy2005]

The entire nature of P2P is to get around censorship. If you try to repeal that concept, then there is no point.

I know thats not what you're trying to do, but if such a plan were put into action, filtration is effectively taking place.

A better option - one that most new P2P apps already use - is allowing the use of white/black lists, but they start off blank. The user should be the only one to control what the user sees. Don't like it? go back to watching TV.

[aqlo]

the reason for filtering "barely legal" is because the normal user is wanting to screen out the whole kiddyporn theme, not just the actual illegal content. The problem is annoying unwanted results, not a legal side-show where we have to respect the technicalities. Fuck the technicalities, if a person is searching for songs and getting their list filled with "mother-son incest" as above, then they don't care whether legally speaking it is a "real" mother and son, or just a may-december theme, they still dont want it.

I've been convinced about the dangers of the developer setting the standard for what is on the default list though, legally this is risky and also not his job. A compromise might be for the users to submit their most-used exclusions for consideration to the ANts forum, with a final list being collated and provided by the forum leaders for interested users.

I'm still not sure how a "white list" would work, it obviously couldnt be an AND group so I'm assuming it would be an OR, as in only include results that contain "mp3" OR "mpg" OR "mpeg" OR whatever etc. If there is someone still alive here who understands this question better, please feel free to correct me.

[wonderboy2005]

white list - ONLY search results with one or more words in this list will appear

black list - search results containing one or more of these words will NOT be displayed.

atleast thats how I understand it...

[Martijn86]

I sure hope you can remove stuff from your blacklist.. I dont wanna miss out on my daily 18yo lesbian action! *giggle.
No seriously.. can you edit those lists yourself or are others deciding what I can download or not?

[wonderboy2005]

I sure hope you can remove stuff from your blacklist.. I dont wanna miss out on my daily 18yo lesbian action! *giggle.
No seriously.. can you edit those lists yourself or are others deciding what I can download or not?
The idea that most apps use is blank lists. the user has to add words if they want them blocked. so yes, they are editable.