Bias

[Liberator]

I noticed that one of the mods on this Gnutella forum is Sephiroth,a self proclaimed dedicated fan of Bearshare,which in itself is no bad thing,except I have read numerous posts of his in the past that put down anything in the Gnutella world that wasn't Bearshare.
I also noticed that another mod is Morgwen who in the last few months does nothing but slag off Bearshare due to his differences with Vinnie and hatred of so called spyware.(fair enough)
I just hope that this forum doesn't degenerate into an egotistical war between these two and that this forum serves it's main purpose which is to help/educate/enlighten members of the ever growing Gnutella community.

Not forgetting Ryoko...I always enjoy reading your posts in the various news items @ Zeropaid.Spread your wisdom here.


Oh yeah,I forgot to say that this Gnutella forum,IMO,could do with a Gnutella News section,or Gnutella General section,as opposed to just the clients.

[Morgwen]

I told my opinion about every client with so called "bundled" software, not just bearshare...

About what you call egostical war, don´t fear something I am tired about these off topic discussions... I support the clients I like... this is Sephiroth`s forum!

Morgwen

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Morgwen
... this is Sephiroth`s forum!

Morgwen

Morgwen,this is your forum as well,in fact this forum is all of ours.
Good to see you here btw,I for one appreciate your continued support of all things Gnutella,on http://www.gnutellaforums.com/ your knowledge of Gnutella has taught me loads.

[Morgwen]

Originally posted by Liberator

Good to see you here btw,I for one appreciate your continued support of all things Gnutella,on http://www.gnutellaforums.com/ your knowledge of Gnutella has taught me loads.

Thanks I am here to help! :wings

Morgwen

[TheVinnMan]

Originally posted by Morgwen
I told my opinion about every client with so called "bundled" software, not just bearshare...

I have a serious question for you Morgwen.

What would you think (hypothetically speaking of course) of a version of BearShare which had no bundled software, and no third party ads (i.e. advertisements served by IP addresses not owned by Free Peers, Inc.).? This version would have all the same great features as BearShare.

A serious response is appreciated.

[Morgwen]

You mean the bearshare PRO? I think its Ok, but this should be the only concept then!

I said my opinion about Limewire too, they have now a PRO version but I don´t agree with their third party stuff!

I have no problem with the software itself, my problems are the third party stuff and Vinnie, but my problem with him is personal!

But I think every user should decide which software he want to use, and my part is to tell the people which possible risk there are included! I know many bearshare user don´t agree with my opinion but can people ALWAYS agree?

Morgwen

[Renesis]

Making people pay to be free of spyware and ads is BS. It should be illegal anyway, and the use of it is decieving and only serves to show the true colors and intentions of the developers to the informed p2p user.

I've used Bearshare and Limwire, didn't really think either experience was anythink worth getting excited about, and far from being one I would pay money for. If you think that mine is a minority opinion, you have lost touch with the users that supported the network when it was young, and have offended them with your devious sortware. Your'e no better than the corporate dipsh-ts at Sharman.

Users would be much better off with a quality client, free of charge, no spyware, no ads, uncomprimised functionality, made by a developer who isn't concerned as much with his wallet. Swabby's Gnucleus puts your clients to shame, and the works of the good dr. are a gift to the p2p community.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Renesis
Users would be much better off with a quality client, free of charge, no spyware, no ads, uncomprimised functionality, made by a developer who isn't concerned as much with his wallet. Swabby's Gnucleus puts your clients to shame, and the works of the good dr. are a gift to the p2p community.

So users what the latest P2P development and the very best programming yet they want it completely free? Something has got to give and its either program quality or being "free." Users must keep in mind that whatever purposes they use the program is up to them.. The programs themselves work kinda like an internet search engine so if users use it for illegal purposes the same way you can find warez on search engines then its that user's responisblilty and not the developers. Why should programmers be held responisble and not be able to support themselves just because the users decide to use the program for illegal purposes. I think that this whole File Sharing programs must not get paid is really just an excuse by users who feel guilty and really IMO shouldnt be using a File Sharing program in the first place if 'illegal" content bothers them..

Gnutella is an open network and yet it still hasnt been able to overtake some of the propierty closed networks out there.. And has some time to go yet.

Most people have the delusion start back in the days of Napster that if everything is open sourced and free then trade groups like the RIAA cant sue those programs.. That not is true because trade groups arent about just suing people.. The "threats" on P2P are on multiple fronts.. Lawsuits, Digital Rights Management, legislation etc..

As for the works of people like dr.damn all im going to say is that i wouldnt be looking at the "clean" programs for any actual P2P development. Clean programs do not advance the development of p2p at all.. and when you think about it gives networks like fasttrack more users, and files because it lets people use the network who wouldnt otherwise so its actually in a way helping those networks..

[Renesis]

Dude, I'm not against developers getting paid. I'm just thinking of the users. Bearshare and LimeWire are basically saying pay for our software that you have become accustomed to, or deal with ads and spyware. Not pay for this because it is quality. I have a problem with that.

Also, why pay for something when you can get a quality product for less? There are better values out there for the p2p user. Justify your arguement by saying I have a guilty consience for illegally stealing materials I don't have a right to, or some other crap, but any way you look at it, free is better then $10. Yeah, the devs gotta look out for their wallets, but so do I. If they wanna turn this into a business thing, then I'm going for good quality at a cheaper price from a source I can trust.

Sephiroth, you didn't really address the use of spyware by these companies. I'm wondering if you think it's use is a good thing?

As for the works of the dr., I don't see his hacks as a form of development. Just fixing what shouldn't have been. And I agree with you that they will make the networks better. I have no problems with the networks. Just the nature of some of the clients and their developers. Like I said, they're a gift to the file sharing community.

[Sephiroth]

Actually Bearshare & Limewire are offering the ability to pay for an ad-free verison because users request for it because they like the program but dont want ads in it.. Its not forced on people because the free verisons are still there.

I wasnt talking specifically about you when i posted about guilty consiences. Pretty much most of P2P is deathy afraid of the trade groups like the RIAA which is exactly what they want.. How many people would share as much or support filesharing if they didnt feel threatened? Its because of that people take it upon themselves to "save p2p" but they fail to realize that its not whatever wild scheme a person comes up that will truely "save p2p" its them.. P2P needs to growand expand and it needs more people supporting it than some elborate plan...

I think the whole spyware issue is more of an issue than it should be. Now its more of a marketing ploy than anything classic example is when morpheous was on fasttrack they were "spyware free" and yet installed Brilliant Digital..

People who make clean verisons IMHO are in no position to make decisions of the people who actually made the program.. If they want to make those kind of decisions then they should make their own program. I think that clean verisons aid the programs they were put out to "punish" more than anything and since they do nothing to advance P2P it is not a gift to file sharing.

[Renesis]

You don't think that AquaLime is an improvement over LimeWire? And as far as not being in a position to make decisions for the devs in LimeWire's case, then they could've just not made the source open. You would think that when they did that, they wanted people to use their program as the basis for something better. That is the point of the whole open source thing, isn't it?

Or do you like it more when the corporate mofos at MusicCity just tacks there name and icons to a great client, bundle it with spyware (which you have already proven you don't care about),and calls it theirs? Being that they haven't made any attempt to keep the Gnuke engine in their client up to date, I don't see how that's an improvement.

Spyware may not be that bad now, but it's more likely just a foreshadowing of what the future will hold, but to a much greater extent, if it isn't stopped soon. Excusing something because it's just a marketing ploy has got to be one of the stupidest arguements I've ever heard.

And Bearshare just sucks. The best way to help keep the network healthy while using Bearshare is to uninstall it.

[Sephiroth]

Your open source examples are bad ones because thats what open source allows.. All the "clean" verisons with the exception of freewire are of Closed source programs. As for open source you tell me is the purpose of open source just to recompile a program and do nothing but change its name?

Spyware may not be that bad now, but it's more likely just a foreshadowing of what the future will hold, but to a much greater extent, if it isn't stopped soon. Excusing something because it's just a marketing ploy has got to be one of the stupidest arguements I've ever heard.

Funny i hear trade groups like the RIAA/MPAA say almost the exact same thing when talking about file sharing..

"Spyware" has changed alot in the past few years.. Your also ignoring the fact that cilent side programs arent always needed to track someone and collect information. The internet was not made for hide and seek so total privacy is something that really cant be obtained.. With the pay options by some programs it shows that programs are giving people a choice which is more than what people had in the past..

Expecting the best and expecting it all for free as in beer is outright selfish. You try programming 40 hours a week full time on a program, give it away for free and try to pay your bills..

Its great that you had to throw in a nice bearshare remark too.. Like all the other claims that bearshare hurts gnutella they arent true in that i think some of the other developers would know and complain. I mean they found out about Qtrax2 pretty quickly but nothing about Bearshare..

Everyone thinks that all the other programs except the ones they use suck..

Anyone who partcipates in gnutella servent pissing matches are narrow minded because they assume two things.. They assume that gnutella is the best p2p network which it isnt(yet).. And they assume that the file sharing universe revolves around gnutella which it doesnt..