How Can New Safer P2P Get Developed As Users Don't Want to Support

[ezzye]

Why do users hate new ideas (new safer P2P applications)?

To quote 3rdgen:
None of these programs are practical, hardly anyone has tried them and no one is going to try them as they will probably never work. All we get from some of these applications is SPAM (remember ES5).

How can safer P2P programs be developed without user support?

Are there no P2P users out there who could help test and add content to new safer P2P systems?

What do new P2P applications such as ANts and the rest need to do to get developed?

A fully developed ANts should be faster than edonkey and winMX and nearly as fast as Bit Torrent (as progs such as ANts use torrents). But that is not currently the case.

They are slower than current applications and contain little content.

However they do make the RIAA and MPAA's life difficult by obscuring the source IP of files.

[ABC_thellookoflove]

if any java bittorrent app implements ants as a hybrid protocol, then we get media and partials.

[notbob]

Why do users hate new ideas (new safer P2P applications)?

To quote 3rdgen:None of these programs are practical, hardly anyone has tried them and no one is going to try them as they will probably never work. All we get from some of these applications is SPAM (remember ES5).



How can safer P2P programs be developed without user support?

Are there no P2P users out there who could help test and add content to new safer P2P systems?

What do new P2P applications such as ANts and the rest need to do to get developed?

A fully developed ANts should be faster than edonkey and winMX and nearly as fast as Bit Torrent (as progs such as ANts use torrents). But that is not currently the case.

They are slower than current applications and contain little content.

However they do make the RIAA and MPAA's life difficult by obscuring the source IP of files.

the same problem exists elsewhere--how do you push something inferior (that may have marginal benefits) on someone when they have something they like better?

give a kid a choice between broccoli and candy and you will see what i mean


"anonymous p2p" has many downfalls, and few benefits (and even then, the benefits are sketchy at best, even if they were proven, which they have not been)

they are without a doubt the safest, but only because they have no users and the media companies could never justify the expense of attempting to sue their users when kazaa still has an infinite supply of sheep to slaughter

(how much has advertising and scientific evidence of nutritional superiority affected broccoli sales? i'm sure candy would outsell it 1000 to 1 even if unadvertised)

[Slycktom]

How Can New Safer P2P Get Developed As Users Don't Want to Support

You answered your own question. Necessity is the mother of all invention. Right now there really is no need for "new safer P2P." Many people are safe on DC and the Newsgroups and lightyears from the vulnerabilities of ED and BT.

[AussieMatt]

No to mention the many WASTE meshes out there my mesh has a contant 20 or more users on it with 1 TB of content or more depending if it gets to 30+ users somedays with constantly changing material availible.

[aqlo]

Why do the users have to carry you? Napster didn't get 50 million users overnight because someone was going around whining about how they should try it and they were betraying the movement and hurting the future and so forth if they didn't. Gnutella didn't get 50 million downloads the day Napster died because somebody told us we had a moral obligation to use it. Waste didn't propagate through every p2p network the same day the site for it got taken down because trying it out was the only way to shut up the trolls spamming it.

They succeeded because they were good. Bring us something good, something whose main attribute is something other than "even slower and with less content than Frost". We will eat it up. Keep telling us we need to re-arrange the odds of getting busted so as to be virtually nil rather than virtually nil, at a cost of hours and hours waiting for crap that never comes because there are too many links in the chain to not have some weak ones, and we will keep ignoring you.

We only ignore you when you are dull, in other words.

[ezzye]

SlyckTom:

You answered your own question. Necessity is the mother of all invention. Right now there really is no need for "new safer P2P." Many people are safe on DC and the Newsgroups and lightyears from the vulnerabilities of ED and BT.
AussieMatt:

No to mention the many WASTE meshes out there my mesh has a contant 20 or more users on it with 1 TB of content or more depending if it gets to 30+ users somedays with constantly changing material availible.

I can't say I disagree with either of you, AussieMatt or Slyck Tom.

But you are expert users who have shopped around.

What about the newbies and non technical people?

When will bog standard ordianary P2P programs protect user privacy?

Probably no time soon the rate development is going (to answer my own question).

P2P should be for everyone not just the enlightened few on their elite DC hubs and WASTE meshes.

Sure I could do that but I prefer to be involved in something that "eventually" will benefit everyone (just like youselves AussieMatt you're help ANts development and SlyckTom you helping P2P development by running a P2P news site).

That's my choice - to support P2P by participating in developing technologies that protect user privacy.

Other users make other choices.

[riderx]

No to mention the many WASTE meshes out there my mesh has a contant 20 or more users on it with 1 TB of content or more depending if it gets to 30+ users somedays with constantly changing material availible.

Waste is based on a encrypted trusted userbase. If its your immediate family and only your close friends you know that the waste network is totally anoymous, with respect to your family and friends. So no need to worry about being busted in a waste network.

You just cant log into someones waste network without a key,ip address etc.
With a waste type network you dont have to worry about anoymity, unless the person u trust adds someone else.

But you have the option to add that person to your trusted list if your broadcasting your key.So dont broadcast your key.* kinda fuck to do that, since you trust the other person your adding, but you never know sometimes thats what you got to do protect you*

Btw I have always trusted the people I had in my waste network hub.

So you can avoid the pitfalls of someone fucking you over in a waste network. However their are also times when you can get screwed by being trusting someone else you have no business trusting.




Well their are times when you arent anoymous in a waste network.

Now in the event as people put it these days, some basterd from the riaa or mpaa use social engineering techniques to get into a waste network then you are fucked, once they are trusted into your so waste network, your not anoymous.

That is why their is a saying goes, watch your ass and dont fall for that bullshit. If someone befriends you on a p2p portal and they are to friendly etc, you better watch your ass too.

oh btw i trust myself :) i also trust my other persona crackerjacker *hehe* of course who couldnt trust themselves?

On a side note newsgroups are totally safe and you have no need to worry about being bustered by those monopolistic pigs from the riaa.

cheers
-woot-

[notbob]

What about the newbies and non technical people?



P2P should be for everyone not just the enlightened few on their elite DC hubs and WASTE meshes.



public p2p has always been for newbs

private p2p has always been for the enlightened elite

however those 2 groups are not mutually exclusive, it just requires a little effort on the part of newbs, something that the people still stuck on kazaa or winmx will never do

google has the answers! there is no need to settle for shitty p2p

[AussieMatt]

I love you rider LOL

[crackerjacker]

I love you rider LOL

u are evil.
nuff said :)

[Christoph]

public p2p has always been for newbs

private p2p has always been for the enlightened elite

however those 2 groups are not mutually exclusive, it just requires a little effort on the part of newbs, something that the people still stuck on kazaa or winmx will never do

google has the answers! there is no need to settle for shitty p2p
on many hubs of DC I saw Riaa members!so do you realy think it is secure?
:tol

[notbob]

on many hubs of DC I saw Riaa members!so do you realy think it is secure?
:tol


first off, how do you know?

second, those are public (or private and run by idiots)

private is not just dc--there are private IRC channels, waste, ftp etc, and that's where the good shit comes from, not kazaa or winmx

it's only as secure as the people who run the hub

[AussieMatt]

DC Hubs with secured SSH tunnels can be just as secure as seucred passworded WASTE meshes .

[tsafa1]

The bottom line is speed at any cost. Just like when you dirving. Everyone speeds despite knowing they may get a ticket and have insurance rates go up, including myself. After you get pulled over you whine and mone to yourself and everyone around you. The a few days later you are speeding again.

I support Ants, Mute, Winney because I am impressed by the technology and theory behind it. When i want a new movie I go to Edonkey or Overnet, for new mp3 it run to fasttrack or gnutella. lawsuits i don't care about. I would replace my harddrive and deny every downloading a thing with my very last breath.

I support anonymous technology because it actualy has the potential to beat the RIAA/MPAA. If it was commonly accepted that some programs are lawsuit proof the RIAA/MPAA would drop all legal actions against users for all p2p programs. In such a case the CEO's would reason that the most they would accomplish by suing is move people from one network to another and there would be no point to that.

For this to happen we don't need 3 million users on Ant's or mute, all we need is a few thousand. The program would then be poplular enough to merrit consideration from the RIAA/MPAA and they can begin doing their statigic calculations as to how to preceed.

[crackerjacker]

DC Hubs with secured SSH tunnels can be just as secure as seucred passworded WASTE meshes .

um u dont need ssh tunnels for a dc hub if only you have trusted users, friends u known for years, or whatever you are safe.

Unless through social engineering they get into a private hub, but that aint going to happen this day and age, because in order to know about a private dc hub, u have to be invited in.

So really there is no need for ssh tunneling etc, if u ask me.

Waste can be trusted too.
look at my response above, under riderx.

u know
peace

[crackerjacker]

on many hubs of DC I saw Riaa members!so do you realy think it is secure?
:tol
With respect to public dc hubs, anyone can pretend to be a regular p2p user, but in reality they can be working for the riaa etc.

A public dc hub is not safe.
You cant compare a private hub, where people know each other, to a public hub, where people do not know each other.

a private hub is safe, as u know everyone.
a public dc hub, is where anyone can lurk.
peace

[AussieMatt]

CJ I should of mentioned secure from outside snooping like that from your ISP or a RIAA bot trying to read packets.

[notbob]

The bottom line is speed at any cost. Just like when you dirving. Everyone speeds despite knowing they may get a ticket and have insurance rates go up, including myself. After you get pulled over you whine and mone to yourself and everyone around you. The a few days later you are speeding again.



people are willing to take risks to go faster

thanks for proving my point for me

CJ I should of mentioned secure from outside snooping like that from your ISP or a RIAA bot trying to read packets.

encryption is not a solution

thanks to the patriot act, using encryption is grounds for FBI investigation, and they can just go in your house and look at your computer while you aren't home

see http://www.factcheck.org/article259.html , and see letter c)

to build a case, they'd say "there's a lot of encrypted messages from that computer, judge, and we think there is a threat that they'd destroy the evidence before we could determine if they are evil hackers."

computer hacking is terrorism thanks to the patriot act

[tsafa1]

people are willing to take risks to go faster
thanks to the patriot act, using encryption is grounds for FBI investigation, and they can just go in your house and look at your computer while you aren't home
see http://www.factcheck.org/article259.html , and see letter c)


I read it. Thats a real streachbut anything is posible, but if they are gona bend the law to that extent their are lots of other laws that they can bend too, and they would if it a matter of stopping an impending terroist strike. I do not think that the FBI would be willing to put its reputation on the line to stop you from downloading Harry Potter. This goes back to what I had said that Ants can protect you from civil legal actions but not if you plan on being the next Dr. Evil.

[toadster123]

i always wondered what was so bad about share ratios??? are mpaa peoples gonna share movies too??? i would guess not.. but i dunno...

i understand that this wouldnt really work with bittorrent ..but with DC or whatever... u could only be allowed in if you uploaded something first... (that would have to be checked i guess)... hmm now i am starting to see how this could be easly gotten around...

o well... if your using a waste group or whatever,... i guess u could only allow people to join after they upload stuff (like for example.,. you could give them an upload account only at first) then after they upload some stuff.. and it is checked by an admin... then they would get full account..
[or maybe people aready do this stuff, besides ratio ftps of course]

[notbob]

I read it. Thats a real streachbut anything is posible, but if they are gona bend the law to that extent their are lots of other laws that they can bend too, and they would if it a matter of stopping an impending terroist strike. I do not think that the FBI would be willing to put its reputation on the line to stop you from downloading Harry Potter. This goes back to what I had said that Ants can protect you from civil legal actions but not if you plan on being the next Dr. Evil.


if the RIAA etc have to deal with "anonymous" p2p, the fbi is going to be the way to go

look at what the FBI is doing right now to link sites for the MPAA