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ezzye
November 1st, 2004, 01:06 AM
The worldwide web was once wondrous. Then it became commercialised. Then came file sharing. It was not commercial but depended on users’ goodwill and was an excellent way for young and old to discover and explore music. This marked the end of the compact disc era and the start of the MP3 download era.

Napster was king. It was free and had millions of users innocently sharing music. The sharing was done privately one to one directly between home internet users. Then the US judiciary shut it down. Big business and the government told the public that file sharers were pirates and that the law could stop them.

The selfless act of privately sharing files with friends was theft like stealing from a shop. Only instead of physical goods intellectual property was being stolen, the copyright owner’s rights were being infringed.

The effect of this was to make privacy a dirty word. Big business wanted to snoop on its customers. They said to protect them from music pirates and poor quality unauthorised products and services. They want to see into your home, on to your computer hard disc to check if you have been sharing any of their property with your friends. They want to find out your name and address from your internet service provider (ISP). They reassure us, the public by saying, “If you aren’t guilty you have nothing to fear.”

The protection of copyright and other types of intellectual property benefits everyone. If someone uses their time and creative energy to create a song, book, theatrical play or film then they should own it and be able to benefit from it commercially. But how far should that protection go.

US law states that using copyrighted works, "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not copyright infringement."

This type of fair use is an exception to copyright. But how far does fair use extend? Is making a back-up copy of a compact disc on your computer, theft or fair use? Is sharing your compact discs with family and friends, copyright infringement or fair use? Is sharing the personal contents of your computer privately with a social acquaintance free of charge, piracy or fair use?

Are we allowed some privacy to do as we want for no commercial gain or is privacy no longer allowed? Yet freedom of speech depends on privacy. Do we trust big business so much that we are prepared to allow them to access our personal details so that they can track where we go and what we do online?

In the movie Jurassic Park the creator of the park said, “Life will find a way.” It is the same with internet file sharing whatever the barriers put up by government and big business people will find a way to exchange information in a secure, private and efficient way. This is what people want and we live in a democracy. The internet cannot be un-invented.

This is borne out by the figures. Since July of 2004, the internet file sharing population has jumped by 15% despite the lawsuits brought about by the recorded music industry. (ITIC, IT Innovations and Concepts, a Canadian research firm specializing in piracy and file-sharing trends.) One of the main drivers for broadband is file sharing. The range and number of files that are available to download from other internet users’ computers using file sharing is far greater than those offered from commercial download services such as iTunes. Consumers recognise this and so vote with their feet.

Yet artists need to be adequately compensated for their work. Without copyright there would be no music or movie industry. Copyrighted works and the rights to their exploitation belong to their creators. These rights are valuable. So it is fair that the rights owners solely should decide what rights to sell for what price. When you buy a compact disc you only buy the right to listen not to distribute the music on it. A consumer would have to pay much more to purchase the right to use the music in say a movie. It is up to the copyright owner to set the price for each right. They own it. It is their property.

File sharers are not opposed to copyright but don’t think that their privacy should be invaded to protect the rights of copyright owners. Non-commercial personal sharing of files directly between individuals during social activities in the privacy of their own homes should be allowed. In a free society privacy should be a right that everyone enjoys in their personal and social life.

Ensuring artist are compensated is a separate issue. There are many ways to achieve this without invading home internet users privacy.

For example, a duty could be charged on recordable CD ROMs and broadband connections. The revenue generated could then be distributed to copyright owners to compensate them for the partial loss of their rights caused by broadband and recordable CD ROM use.

File sharing should not be a crime. It is a spontaneous social service set up by a community of internet users for other online users. It is like a library but instead of sharing books, files are shared. What are missing are the necessary regulations to ensure that copyright owners are compensated. That is what is needed.

The private non-commercial sharing of files should be deemed fair use. The ability to communicate privately over the internet is needed to preserve a free society. Countries with repressive regimes such as China and Saudi Arabia monitor and restrict what their citizens can access over the internet. We are born with our right to privacy. We should not give it up lightly.

So how should the rights of copyright holders to receive financial compensation for the use of their works and the right to privacy of home internet users to share files within their online community be balanced. Copyright depends on consumer consent. So the solution should involve consent. When coercion is used to solve social problems, we all suffer. It usually fails to achieve its aims instead it reduces the rights and freedoms of all.

Government could pass laws forcing internet service providers to disclose the personal details of users using home computers suspected of sharing copyright material. They could ban file sharing by monitoring internet use to prevent it. In the end all internet traffic could be monitored not just for words relating to bomb plots or terrorist conspiracies but for words like “Eminem” or “Beatles” that hint at the sharing of copyright material. Then what next, monitoring emails to stop tax evasion, domestic violence or recreational drug use?

How far will the invasion of our privacy go? Already, our shopping transactions are monitored by loyalty card systems, journeys by close circuit TV and soon our identity by ID cards.

Say your teenage son or daughter has been downloading the latest Eninem compact disc track, from another teenager friend while at home in their bedroom. Do you really want your internet service provider to be forced to tell third parties your personal details to enable them to sue you?

Will it soon be illegal to use any technology that allows the user to communicate securely and privately with other internet users? Some restrictions of privacy are needed for national security and to prevent certain major social ills like paedophilia. The music and movie industry are important money earners for the country.

However, the right of citizens to privacy is more important. They need to find other ways, other than coercing the public, to get paid. The entertainment industry depends on the goodwill of the public. They should not be attacking their best current and future customers through the courts.

Government must get involved to ensure that both copyright owners and internet users are treated fairly. What prevents this is the fact that both the movie and music industry are run by a small number of very large corporations.

These have a vested interest in preventing change and the development of technology. They want to ban file sharing as it reduces their power by allowing new competitors to enter their market. They want more restrictive laws to protect their dominant position and to reduce the effect of technological change. They want to slow down or prevent the move from physical to electronic media.

For internet users the real solution would be to water down copyright by extending fair use. This would stimulate creativity and benefit everyone. Fair use could be strengthened in legislation. In a similar way to how the government legislates in favour of public service broadcasting. The Fair use exception to copyright could be extended to include the non commercial sharing of files when done directly between individuals at home.

The problem is that the government does not like intervening in commercial markets. Also, both the music and movie industries have powerful lobbies that aim to protect and strengthen their position. Their press releases are widely reported linking file sharing to lost sales and therefore lost jobs.

However, qualitative research has found that, no-one trusts their claims of lost sales and lost jobs. In fact, even those people who do believe the figures reported largely aren't concerned because of the general perception of the huge profits these industries make and the perception that this is the result of ripping off the general public.

In the US since last September, the recording industry sued more than 4,100 file sharers for damages of up to half a million dollars each. At least 600 of those cases have been settled for approximately $3000 each.

These cases depended on internet service providers providing the private details of alleged copyright infringers. The record industry is planning to take similar action in the United Kingdom. If this happens what users do in the privacy of their own home on their computers will come under the scrutiny of outside parties. Ordinary law abiding middle class parents and their children will be criminalised for the non commercial sharing of music on to their computers with their online friends.

Recording a movie or a music clip on a video recorder (VCR) at home is allowed as it is not for profit only convenience. It is essentially deemed fair use of copyright material. There are no police raids on VCR owners to check what they are recording and for how long they are keeping recordings. File sharing should be in the same position if it is private, non-commercial, done at home directly between individuals. An individual’s right to privacy is more important than copyright and should therefore have greater protection.

I want the freedom I was born with. In a free country privacy in our personal and social life should be an absolute right. The state should only breach an individual’s privacy to protect society from terrorism or some other major social ill, such as paedophilia. We should not have our privacy invaded to enable the recording industry to maximise its profits.

Sorry for such a long post but I had to get this off my chest.

Siskabush
November 1st, 2004, 03:11 AM
1. Make CDs worth the 20$, or drop the price to 5$

2. Stop offering sub-standard music downloads. You can get 256Kbps Mp3's off of BitTorrent.

3. Maybe offer other genres of music in CD stores. All you see is Nu-Rock and Pop these days.

4. Stop radio censorship so other artists/local artists/genres can hit the airwaves. If you love hearing JLo and Britney spears 24/7, then tune in. If your sick of it, cook a nice CD.

5. Consumer relations is king for business. Stop suing the crap out of your consumer base, and maybe start building good relations with a fair and balanced copyright. Me and my friends are going to release our works on BitTorrent + P2P networks. Our beleif is music/video should be able to be available to anyone, even if you dont have the money. If you want to own an official copy with bonus features + the cool book, then buy it after you try it. If not, thats fine. Keep the download and show it around.

Simple simple. You can build a loyal fanbase by making your works available to anyone.

aqlo
November 1st, 2004, 04:41 AM
ezzye you may be interested in the ongoing project to make digital copyright obsolete at thebighack.org. Here's a copy of the RFC (http://offsystem.sourceforge.net/RFC.php).

Psilaxs
November 1st, 2004, 05:00 AM
ezzye you may be interested in the ongoing project to make digital copyright obsolete at thebighack.org. Here's a copy of the RFC (http://offsystem.sourceforge.net/RFC.php).

And over a year later where's the progress? Too many idea people and not enough programmers (well none actually)

Afn
November 1st, 2004, 05:57 AM
The worldwide web was once wondrous. Then it became commercialised. Then came file sharing. It was not commercial but depended on users’ goodwill and was an excellent way for young and old to discover and explore music. This marked the end of the compact disc era and the start of the MP3 download era.


Sorry for such a long post but I had to get this off my chest.Electronic distribution is a revolutionary change to distribution of content, and as every net connection or node goes online, so does the potential for content to be non-commerically swapped and non-professionals to create professional and semi-professional works of art to compete with established industries. (www vs. publishing)

There is a public benefit to sharing information. Imagine a world where you do not have access to share what you find important. If people need to get paid for producing content, then a better system needs to be found.

1. Universal access to material. If it is digital it can be transfered to people, and that transfer of content is of greater value than restricting access.

2. Compensation pool for artists and/or universal basic income.

I prefer a 2% to 5% content tax, like a income tax, and with this tax make all content searchable and available digitally for transfer by citizens. Commerical use could still be negotiated and unregulated.

You would still have copyright registration, but after say, 2010 all works must have a digital version that would be FTP'ed to the library of congress and then would be available to everyone.

Universal digital access is the real issue. We need to protect access to information. Imagine a world where you have no access. Where a system of perfect control is created by restricting access to information to people who are accepted by the corporation. The corporation that owns information, controls lives. Will your life be the next to be excluded?

eivioolla
November 1st, 2004, 07:29 AM
Without copyright there would be no music

Nonsense. Music has existed thousands of years, intellectual property laws have not. There would be less music, but bigger percentage of it would be made by true music lovers instead of businessmen. It would change into quality over quantity.

notbob
November 1st, 2004, 07:35 AM
as long as i can get it for free, who cares about legality?

there are all sorts of laws on the books--none of them can prevent anything. people will do what they want, whether it's legal or not, be it speeding on the freeway, jaywalking, taking drugs, or internet downloading

try as anyone might, even the most perfectly concieved law can't stop anything (it wasn't the creator of jurassic park, it was the chaos theorist, but it's true--life will find a way)

crackerjacker
November 1st, 2004, 11:22 AM
Laws are always going to be broken. What gets me is that laws are always changed or favored on behalf of the rich .

Psilaxs
November 1st, 2004, 02:07 PM
Laws are always going to be broken. What gets me is that laws are always changed or favored on behalf of the rich .


Who should the laws favor? The poor? They have nothing to protect, nothing to invent, nothing really to offer. They don't employ anyone, they do not create the car you drive, or manufacture the goods you use everyday. They do not make the food you eat, or plant the crops which it came from. Having all or most laws favor the poor would be akin to having your pitbull guard the dust bunnies in your house rather than your real valuables.

Psilaxs
November 1st, 2004, 02:09 PM
Electronic distribution is a revolutionary change to distribution of content, and as every net connection or node goes online, so does the potential for content to be non-commerically swapped and non-professionals to create professional and semi-professional works of art to compete with established industries. (www vs. publishing)

There is a public benefit to sharing information. Imagine a world where you do not have access to share what you find important. If people need to get paid for producing content, then a better system needs to be found.

1. Universal access to material. If it is digital it can be transfered to people, and that transfer of content is of greater value than restricting access.

2. Compensation pool for artists and/or universal basic income.

I prefer a 2% to 5% content tax, like a income tax, and with this tax make all content searchable and available digitally for transfer by citizens. Commerical use could still be negotiated and unregulated.

You would still have copyright registration, but after say, 2010 all works must have a digital version that would be FTP'ed to the library of congress and then would be available to everyone.

Universal digital access is the real issue. We need to protect access to information. Imagine a world where you have no access. Where a system of perfect control is created by restricting access to information to people who are accepted by the corporation. The corporation that owns information, controls lives. Will your life be the next to be excluded?


I have come to the conclusion that you read WAY too many cyberpunk novels.

notbob
November 1st, 2004, 02:59 PM
Who should the laws favor? The poor? ... they do not create the car you drive, or manufacture the goods you use everyday. They do not make the food you eat, or plant the crops which it came from (and harvest them)n.b.....

they actually do all of those things, disproportionately in fact

if you don't protect them, you crush the very backs that big business get their livelihood from

eivioolla
November 1st, 2004, 03:36 PM
they actually do all of those things, disproportionately in fact
if you don't protect them, you crush the very backs that big business get their livelihood from

For once I can agree 100% with notbob. Why would a rich person bother to invent or to do anything for that matter, he's already rich.

tMoD
November 1st, 2004, 04:14 PM
And over a year later where's the progress? Too many idea people and not enough programmers (well none actually)

The progress and programmers are here (http://www.thebighack.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=941). I'll be the first to admit it's been slow going.

As for the true answer to the question, how would you fix all our p2p legal problems? DOGSTER!

SuitablyTwisted
November 1st, 2004, 04:18 PM
Well, we rich people are like everyone else. We want to be more rich. And since we have the money to invest, we are able to create that wealth. I do have to agree with notbob on the disproportionate number of poor people involved in manufacturing and agriculture, though. If I didn't take care of my employees, I wouldn't have a business.

Psilaxs
November 1st, 2004, 09:05 PM
they actually do all of those things, disproportionately in fact

if you don't protect them, you crush the very backs that big business get their livelihood from

I guess me and you have completely different ideas when it comes to certain words or phrases. When I say the word poor, I mean homeless, or people who may have a semi part time job doing whatever but not really contributing as they cannot even make it week to week. When I say poor i mean POOR, not people that have a job and work almost everyday. Corporations/wealthy do need some degree of protection, look how sue crazy this nation has become, that's just one example.

Sorry if by poor you thought I meant middle lower class, or even lower class.

notbob
November 1st, 2004, 09:14 PM
I guess me and you have completely different ideas when it comes to certain words or phrases. When I say the word poor, I mean homeless, or people who may have a semi part time job doing whatever but not really contributing as they cannot even make it week to week. When I say poor i mean POOR, not people that have a job and work almost everyday. Corporations/wealthy do need some degree of protection, look how sue crazy this nation has become, that's just one example.

Sorry if by poor you thought I meant middle lower class, or even lower class.

well, they sure as hell are nowhere near rich

Bytronix
November 1st, 2004, 10:31 PM
Personally,
I liked the internet a whole lot better before the web even existed. But I think that will change with time.
As for the survival of P2P, it will survive. In a new standard. "Open Secure P2P". It will take a long while for the transformation to happen. Might not even be in my lifetime at the rate things are going. But it will happen. And in the end, both home and large commercial resource providers and content creators (& maybe maintainers) will profit from it. That's what Kazaa should have turned into but failed to do so because of irresponsibility and greed at the top. Open source software should (and I think will) hopefully solve this problem over time. And can probably even work with DRM such as included in Microsoft Windows. Maybe I'm being a little rosey eyed. But I really think this can happen. Especially with Fedora Linux starting to get as good as it's getting. As for P2P as it is now, it must go. That's my opinion. Free stuff (and even good free stuff) will always remain. In large quantity. It used to be there and got destroyed. By greed. And maybe immorality.

Kazaa sucks. Not for what they are. But for what they did to what could have been a good thing.

I'm possibly disenchanted. But I don't really see them making enough effort in my opinion to improve things.

Other P2P right now is all a copy of the same old thing. It all works, but it's complete anarchy and chaos. Sure, you can get free music from it. But the quality sucks compared to what it could have been. Plenty of quantity though.

What can artists do to protect themselves from P2P and piracy right now? Honestly, there's not much.

This will change with time though as bugs are fixed and viruses are killed.

How's this going to happen? With new standards. New protocols. New software.

Before the internet became what it is now, people would spend hours transfering small files over slow connections. Using protocols like xmodem. Then ymodem. Then zmodem. And speeds of modems increased as phone line quality improved. I sometimes feel that this constant innovation that once existed has come to a complete stop. But it hasn't. At least I hope not.

That old stuff is still out there and it still has some uses left. Sometimes to solve the problems in the present, using technology (and software) from the past to solve them is a great idea. Other times, hey, if you're up to it, start from square one. If you're doing something wrong though, sooner or later, it's going to catch up with you.

As an artist, with new material (or any material), if you're really worried about stuff getting into the wrong hands and you getting nothing for it, all I can suggest is that at first make sure that your material only goes to people you trust.

New artists probably have alot more to worry about then old artists. I can sympathise with them alot more. However, (as much as I like them - the older ones) I sometimes really have to wonder when older artists who already made their tons of money and built their personal empires are going to just give it up. This goes back to that greed thing. Ok, great. Save the planet. How? Your stock pile of cash isn't doing anything sitting in a bank account.

A Jehova's Witness told me that "Money" is "Protection". I don't know that I completely agree with that, but I think that there's only so much protection a person needs. I keep thinking of the old Sound Blaster animation when it first became the defacto sound standard. Earth, Wind, Fire, Water. Start with those. Go on a camping trip.

As for anyone who thinks they know me, trust me. You don't. Although, with time, that may change.
That's my 2 cents for now. All opinions posted subject to change over time.
Take care...

BTW: As for Apple, nice computers. Over priced.

ezzye
November 2nd, 2004, 02:43 AM
What about "fair use"?

"Fair use" is for example being able to use a VCR to time shift a TV program you don't have to ask the copyright owners permission it is "fair use" of copy righted material.

Surely we don't need to change copyright law we just need to extend "fair use".

So that when a large corporation uses copyrighted material such as music to make money they should pay for copyright (maybe more than now).

Maybe ISPs should pay copyroght holders, as one of the main reasons users buy their services is to share (get) copyrighted material. Users don't get their MP3s and DIVXs for FREE. Users have to pay their ISP - no payment, no connection, no download.

However, when an individual member of public wants to share a CD that they bought with their hard earned money with new and old friends on an internet connected computer from within their home it should be "fair use" within limits.

What limit maybe 50 K b/s max upload and 20 giigabyte of content :)

eivioolla
November 2nd, 2004, 03:13 AM
Who should the laws favor?

Perhaps the laws shouldn't favor anyone in particular. Perhaps they should be in balance and as equal as possible.

Psilaxs
November 2nd, 2004, 07:54 PM
well, they sure as hell are nowhere near rich

Compared to who though? The rich people in this nation? The lower class in this country have it better than 60+% of everyone else in the world, but that is going off topic; I understand what you are saying.

method
November 3rd, 2004, 03:22 AM
As I've said before... I'd demand that the copyright cartel prove how I've distributed the number of 'units of product' they accuse me of 'distributing'.

I'd also ask them to prove how I was supposed to KNOW that someone would illegally download a file from me on a network where the terms and conditions do not condone it.

It requires the action of the downloader for the crime to be committed, according to many p2p networks terms-and-conditions... I should be able to share files and people who are legally entitled should be able to use my files for backup purposes when they already have a license to posess that media.

My assumption is based on the terms and conditions of the network. It's up to some else to break the rules for the illegal activity to be instigated.

In some ways... it's like the INDUCE ACT is already in effect when it shouldn't be and people are being assumed guilty. Even the degree of 'damage' (and consequential demands for hundreds of thousands of dollars) is projected by the media industry itself.

With very little proof the RIAA/MPAA/etc. are being allowed to threaten people with information that is no more than mere speculation.

You are all guilty until proven innocent. Even if terms and conditions indicate that the blame should be focussed on the party that INSTIGATES the illegal-data-transfer.

I'd fight based on the fact that all the figures and claimed damages are projected by an industry that is simply aiming to make an example out of me by ruining my life over claims that are not fully substanciated.

On top of that...

P2P usage has risen.
RIAA sales have risen.

The increase in P2P is not directly relational to the RIAA sales (or lack of sales)... so it MUST be something else...

Every RIAA lawsuit is complete bullshit. Their own stats cross-referenced with the genuine statistics of p2p usage prove this.

The majority of p2p-related RIAA-successes in the courts are no more than a disgusting miscarriage of justice. - A legal system that trusts speculation and guesswork and rewards corporations at the cost of the publics welfare. - If you're going to accept guessing games as proof.. you should only accept them if they don't hurt the general public, and you should only accept them if there are no statistics to strongly contest those claims. Unfortunately, many judges and politicians are already bought out.

Fair-use??? - heh.. who d'ya think you're kidding?.. can't you see?... it may have been a civil right in the past but money has bought that freedom.

Peace!!

Afn
November 3rd, 2004, 06:02 AM
Personally,
I liked the internet a whole lot better before the web even existed. But I think that will change with time.

The web does two amazing things. 1. Allows anyone to publish in large quanities that before the web needed a substantial capital investment. 2. Depresses the sale of printed material because of the volume of the web.

If the web was physically in print, it would require a dumpster load of all new books to be dumped at the library of congress every day with all new content.


Personally,
As for the survival of P2P, it will survive. In a new standard. "Open Secure P2P". It will take a long while for the transformation to happen. Might not even be in my lifetime at the rate things are going. But it will happen. And in the end, both home and large commercial resource providers and content creators (& maybe maintainers) will profit from it.
I think, no. Information is going decentralized and most of the profit in information will be eliminated.

Yes, some new works will be profitable, Yes some IP creators will be paid and paid well, but the day of creating a 120 page book and expecting readers and a market are forever over.


Free stuff (and even good free stuff) will always remain. In large quantity.
That is the problem! Systems Iike reviews on amazon.com cut into profit by pointing people to the best source on a topic. There are many websites that are better resources than print could ever be or become. The free stuff is going to make commercial printed and electronic media obsolete, except for a few producers, and the few that are profitable will be monopolies (majority) and a few lone wolf's. (imoho)


Before the internet became what it is now, people would spend hours transfering small files over slow connections. Using protocols like xmodem. Then ymodem. Then zmodem. And speeds of modems increased as phone line quality improved. I sometimes feel that this constant innovation that once existed has come to a complete stop. But it hasn't. At least I hope not.

The rate of change is increasing. M$ obsoletes the product every 3 years. That is very fast compaired to several decades ago when product lifespans were measured in 5 to 20 years.

Innovation is occuring, but mostly on the big dollar corporate level. It takes alot of money to start a product and bring it to market. We all know of great products that did not make it in the real world. Great software, Great platforms.... products of all types.

The modern world runs on oil, if we have oil supply problems, then the modern world will come to one hell of a grinding painful stop.




As an artist, with new material (or any material), if you're really worried about stuff getting into the wrong hands and you getting nothing for it, all I can suggest is that at first make sure that your material only goes to people you trust.


The dirty secret of riaa/mpaa and publishing industries is the promotional free copy. They use or used free copies to sell real copies. Since the net, a million websites, radio, television and now dvd, videos, people are all competing for your time.

If the publishing industry can bribe...er...condition you to expect something new and free, and get you hooked, they have won a major battle in creating a market. People who like to listen to the free and will be thinking about owning some of what is given to them.

That system of free promotion and special access to promote works of art is in dire trouble because once an artist goes on a show, some fan can copy the show and put it up on the internet. (ex: John Stewart on Crossfire)

More people downloaded the torrent than watched the show when it was live.

Again, who has access. Why is access important. Should providers prevent access so they can profit from collecting, creating and distributing information?

I say no. In an information based world, information is more important than restriction of the information for profit.

So books, dvd's and the web loose much of it's value. As millions of producers go online, so will the inablity of content producers to make a compelling product sell or break even.

Interesting post. P2P will increase and information will triumph over the evildoers who want to restrict information in any form. (A page from King Bush's playbook.)