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View Full Version : Time to dump MP3s? - BBC News


View Full Version : Time to dump MP3s? - BBC News


Malicious Intent
July 12th, 2004, 05:57 AM
Time to dump MP3s? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3886405.stm)

MP3 was a great audio format in its day, argues technology analyst Bill Thompson, but that day has passed.

I was sitting on the train the other day indulging in a bit of unconscious iPod flaunting - constantly readjusting the little white buds in my ear, checking track names as an excuse to remove the shiny white toy from my pocket, that sort of thing - when I noticed that the person opposite me had a different sort of digital music player.

There was no way to tell what he was listening to, but even if it had been something very cool, I could not have suggested that we swap some tracks and share our libraries, as none of the digital music players made to date will let you.

The record companies would not like it, as they would say it was piracy to share the odd track with a friend.

The hardware manufacturers themselves probably would not support it either, as it would mean working together and agreeing standards in what is an intensely competitive market.

And even if we could have copied the files, my train companion was probably a Windows user and listening to music stored using Media Player's WMA format, so I would not have been able to play his stuff anyway.

Apple, which makes the iPod, has decided that it would be bad for business to make their customer's lives easier by letting them listen to WMA files and wants us to stick with their format, called AAC, instead.

We might, after all, decide not to buy music from their online music store, or another hardware manufacturer might come up with a nicer, cheaper or better player than theirs.

Music shares

There is a convenient myth that markets are about giving people what they want. But at the early stages of any new technology, when the desire is not there because nobody really knows what is being offered, they are much more about grabbing customers and locking out the competition.

And at this stage in the development of portable music players, when most people are not that interested in them or cannot afford them, it is about trying to be in the best position when the mass market breakthrough happens.

That means not giving the early adopters what they want, like players that can play any format and are easy to upgrade.

One format that almost every player can cope with, of course, is good old MP3.

Originally developed in 1988 and adopted as a standard by the Motion Picture Experts Group (Mpeg), ISO-Mpeg Audio Layer-3 (to give it its full name) was chosen by a number of programmers looking for ways to take large music files off CDs and rip them for storage on their computers.

The resulting files were small enough to be traded over the net, and MP3 was the format used by Napster and other file-sharing and peer-to-peer networks in the late 1990's.

It is still the one format that almost anything will play, a fact that has given it a lease of life it really does not deserve.

There are many things wrong with MP3 and only one thing right.

The right thing is that it does not come with any form of digital rights management.

Sound advice

Once you have got an MP3 of a song you can copy it, share it, burn it to disc, play it on as many portable devices as you want and, crucially, write or download software to convert it into any other format you fancy.

The wrong things are that it is old and no longer up to the job. In order to keep file sizes down MP3 encoding loses a lot of data, a lot more than modern formats, and this shows in the quality of the listening experience.

The way it compresses files and plays them back means that the music too often sounds awful on anything but tinny laptop speakers or cheap earphones.

We cannot let some sort of techno-nostalgia get in the way here.

There is no reason to defend MP3, no reason why everyone who currently listens to MP3s stored on their hard drive should not move to something significantly better.

And there is no reason why older MP3 players should not be upgraded to play newer and better formats, including the open source Ogg Vorbis.

Windows alternative

New formats do not have to come with rights management, so the key benefit of MP3s for music fans remains.

I have already copied all of my old CDs to my iTunes music library where they are stored as AAC files, but I can copy them, play them and burn them to CD without restriction.

It is only music I buy from an online music store, a temptation I have so far resisted, that is limited.

I could do the same if I was using Microsoft's WMA.

My friend Tony, obsessed with the highest fidelity "lossless encoding" of his music, has a multi-gigabyte setup for his digital music and uses WMA. He simply converts his files to the format needed for his portable players when required, even using MP3 if he has to.

Part of the problem is that MP3 has become shorthand for digital music in the press, especially in the non-technical press where talk of formats and standards and encoding rapidly confuses the journalists, never mind their readers.

A catchy technical-sounding abbreviation, one that was burned into public consciousness as Napster rose and fell, is a lot easier to write than "digitally encoded music and any associated codecs".

Although we might be stuck with the term for some time to come, I hope we will not actually be using this old, unsuitable and rather inadequate file format for much longer.

In the early days of Napster I remember hearing a parody of Dire Straits' Money for Nothing, which included the refrain "I want my MP3".

Now it should at least be "I want my AAC", without any DRM, of course. Our ears deserve better than a format from the last millennium.
__________________

Bill Thompson is a regular commentator on the BBC World Service programme Go Digital.

LostinTranslation
July 12th, 2004, 08:47 AM
I don't think the guy knows what he is talking about.

What about VBR encoding?

I mean if he's listening to 64kb or 128kb mp3s then ok those do suck but if they're encoded right they're great.

Nice article btw.

CCSDUDE
July 12th, 2004, 08:54 AM
I don't think the guy knows what he is talking about.

What about VBR encoding?

I mean if he's listening to 64kb or 128kb mp3s then ok those do suck but if they're encoded right they're great.

Nice article btw.

Mp3's do suck...good extractions an quality encoding at a proper db level with a high bitrate do sound pretty good, but ogg mpe ac3 and even AAC beat the hell outta most mp3's floating around, and with less effort!

Ne007
July 12th, 2004, 09:00 AM
Mp3's do suck...good extractions an quality encoding at a proper db level with a high bitrate do sound pretty good, but ogg mpe ac3 and even AAC beat the hell outta most mp3's floating around, and with less effort!


But what if they don't play in any peripherals that you have? I'm sticking to mp3's for now...I can't tell the difference, and they play in everything I have (car stereo, dvd player, mp3 player, portable stereo). I don't think I'll be switching anytime soon.

I'm not going to go thru the hassel of converting....

LostinTranslation
July 12th, 2004, 09:22 AM
Mp3's do suck...good extractions an quality encoding at a proper db level with a high bitrate do sound pretty good, but ogg mpe ac3 and even AAC beat the hell outta most mp3's floating around, and with less effort!


Yeah i'm not saying the others are bad. But I think the key to what you are saying is "most" if you go on kazaa and download some mp3s they are not going to sound very good.

But if you go and download some VBR lame encoded mp3s I would find it pretty hard to tell the difference between them and other "good" formats.

Maybe it's just me.

:;)

rebirth
July 12th, 2004, 10:53 AM
eh, I keep my iPod, and mah thousands of MP3s, and tens of AACs, so, shove it BBC.

random
July 12th, 2004, 11:18 AM
mp3s won't be going anywhere soon unless ppl start ripping in different formats and then spreading them :D

mp3s have become mainstream and until something else also becomes mainstream and replaces them, nothing will change

method
July 12th, 2004, 12:36 PM
Either way... this is probably just an attempt to push people onto DRM'd platforms. MP3's may have downfalls but for the majority of content out there you'll need to be able to listen to mp3s.

This argument is about as good as saying that it's time for browsers to stop using JPEG and GIF as the primary formats.

It's bullshit to push people onto DRM'd content... don't believe the hype.

That said... I fully support OggVorbis formats too. I just detest any data formats that are restrictive 'coz of DRM. (Let alone any bloat that may be assoicated with that!!!!)

Siskabush
July 12th, 2004, 01:11 PM
I recall many people saying AAC is crap.
And honestly, I cant tell the difference between CD quality and mp3.
Lots of mine are encoded at 256.

shawners
July 12th, 2004, 01:36 PM
mp3s are compatable. But these new players that are released need to able to update the system inside to play many more files.. Like later a mp3 player needs to play ogg files.. and then higher quality, and then FLAWLESS audio. What about each MP3 player, has a way to transmit the files through the air, kind of like walkie talkie.. It could check its file and make sure it got all packets.. or be like with merged with a phone, you dial the number and it transmits.. Mini modem or something. Were you dont have to have a cord to dangle around to hook it up to.

Smashed
July 12th, 2004, 01:50 PM
I don't think the guy knows what he is talking about.

What about VBR encoding?

I mean if he's listening to 64kb or 128kb mp3s then ok those do suck but if they're encoded right they're great.

Nice article btw.


Yeah you're right, this guy is completly clueless! He's spent too much time mincing around with ipods, macs, etc and probably doesn't appreciate the detail. MP3 is still a good format, it still works and it's quality is acceptable if encoded properly. A properly encoded MP3 is better than CD quality, but if you're ripping from a CD then your ripped version will only be as good as the media it originated from! To say it was developed in 1988 and is now defunct is complete rubbish. The serial and parallel ports on PC's are still used today (not so much now because of BlueTooth and USB) and they go way way back. Just because something is old, doesn't mean it's useless and needs to be thrown away!

notbob
July 12th, 2004, 02:31 PM
"My friend Tony, obsessed with the highest fidelity "lossless encoding" of his music, has a multi-gigabyte setup for his digital music and uses WMA. He simply converts his files to the format needed for his portable players when required, even using MP3 if he has to."


anyone who would use "lossless" and "WMA" in the same sentence would have to have no clue what they are talking about

Dark Messenger
July 12th, 2004, 06:49 PM
"My friend Tony, obsessed with the highest fidelity "lossless encoding" of his music, has a multi-gigabyte setup for his digital music and uses WMA. He simply converts his files to the format needed for his portable players when required, even using MP3 if he has to."


anyone who would use "lossless" and "WMA" in the same sentence would have to have no clue what they are talking about

i know..it cracks me up to..better than reading Dilbert sometimes. ;) :D

dock0184
July 12th, 2004, 07:14 PM
Now it should at least be "I want my AAC", without any DRM, of course. Our ears deserve better than a format from the last millennium.

Bill Thompson is a complete idiot. :shoot
Not only has he never heard of >128kbps bitrates, he's actually attempting to push us towards another lossy medium. :finger

shawners
July 12th, 2004, 07:33 PM
what about THIS!!! .. Say you and your mp3 player was walking down the road.. ANd you played most of your collection of music.. and want some more music, you simply plug your wireless phone up to it.. and connects.. download new music to your player.

CCSDUDE
July 12th, 2004, 10:08 PM
"My friend Tony, obsessed with the highest fidelity "lossless encoding" of his music, has a multi-gigabyte setup for his digital music and uses WMA. He simply converts his files to the format needed for his portable players when required, even using MP3 if he has to."


anyone who would use "lossless" and "WMA" in the same sentence would have to have no clue what they are talking about

I felt that was too obvious, I also wonder why you took it...

Funny as hell though... "Yo Tony! Pirate me a disc of dem Dubbya M Ehhhs, dey r0x0x0x0z."

notbob
July 12th, 2004, 10:20 PM
I felt that was too obvious, I also wonder why you took it...



just that he is credentialed as the "expert" in this "article"--my friend tony, who has several GB of WMA files, instead of "acoustics expert so and so" or "sonic engineer dr. whoha"

if you are trying to make a point, and are a professional journalist (maybe) credentials matter

CCSDUDE
July 12th, 2004, 11:10 PM
just that he is credentialed as the "expert" in this "article"--my friend tony, who has several GB of WMA files, instead of "acoustics expert so and so" or "sonic engineer dr. whoha"

if you are trying to make a point, and are a professional journalist (maybe) credentials matter

I just assumed you'd go for a more tongue in cheek point of debate/attack.: )