Michael Moore's new film? Fahrenheit 9/11

[shaunsinger]

Has anyone seen it yet? I heard its unbelievable, I can't wait to see it. If you have it, please tell me where you got it. Thanks, Shaun

[Potato]

Double posting is unnecessary.

[rebirth]

Best Buy? it was released yesterday at Cannes, janett ;) :D

[shaunsinger]

yeah, obviously I'm new sorry. What happened was that I posted that other one, then realized this would be a more appropriate place. My bad. Does anyone know what forum would or site would be a good place to get this question answered? Once again sorry.
Shaun

[shawners]

have you ever read the book?? IT was an awesome book, i read it and did a book report on it many years ago for school.

[fmg00]

Actually i don't think the movie has nothing to do with the book, except for a little similarity in the title. The movie is supposed to show Bush family connections with Osama Bin Laden an other terrorists, among other things...
Great book anyway, i readed recently and founded it interesting, but still behind 1984...

[Cardinal Number]

Michael Moore suks, his last movie suks even worse, not only is it not funny but its got bad camera work, yikes!

PS: OT ---- any java code slingers in here? the forum seems to be nonexistent

[Miniver]

You probably wont see it here (US) until after the election. Disney is refusing to let Miramax distribute the film during an election year.

[fmg00]

Talk about freedom of speech....

[shawners]

Freedom to with hold the truth, freedom to keep away from all ears and eyes. I was thinking he was doing the book since it said Fahrenheit . Oh well. What i gather from others on here, as well as websites. The bowling from columbine was all staged up and not an actual documentry as what they would have you believe. Kind of like going around asking questions about guns and editing the stuff people say and putting other things in it like animation or fools that happen to own guns. Find every redneck in america to have a gun.. yet the real men who pride themselfs in bareing arms are not there.

[rebirth]

have you ever read the book?? IT was an awesome book, i read it and did a book report on it many years ago for school.
umm I think you are thinking of Fahrenheit 451. Awesome book..OK movie. The temperature at which paper burns...ooh I luff ray bradbury. if you wanna copy, PM me!

[beardedwonder]

I heard that it's 70% truth and the rest is slightly shaky, apparently (heard this on the radio) it's not really shocking for the rest of the world but people in the U.S. find this shocking because it shows a side of the administration that's been hidden so far. However i don't know cos i haven't seen the film!

I enjoyed (not sure if that's the right term) Bowling for Columbine but it's quite clear to see that the guy has very strong opinions and certainly wants to get rid of Bush so i think you must take his work with 'a pinch of salt'.

[neoufo51]

People are responding to it very well at Cannes and Moore is hoping for a summer release and a video release in October. (just in time for the election)

Maybe then some people will see that this president IS SO BAD that he is the only one in history ( I think) to have a feature film critizizing him DURING his term in office. Get Bush out of office!

[rebirth]

I concurr, neoufo.

[Potato]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

[Whistler]

ouch potato that was a major michal moore burn, though im sorta skeptical. Oh well, if I were american I would vote whichever way mike votes. (um, KERRY)

[bookmansour]

Moore, like everyone is entitled to his opinons
My opinion is that he is too preachy
He never just reports on a topic to try and get people to think...
Instead he forces what he beleives down your throat and tells you that if you don't agree with him your an idiot...
Not that I'm not an idiot, I just prefer to view things objectivly.... ...if at all possible
It screams of personal agendas and propaganda
Like most things self-inflated ego-maniacle writers and film makers put out there in the political stream of waste.

[MoonMan]

I've been looking for this movie to download as well. So far, not a trace anywhere.

If you manage to dig it up, pm me as well with the information please.

[Jim Morrison]

Michael Moore is too left wing liberals, as rush limbaugh is too right wing conservatives.

Both are Full of shit.
btw these dumass movies he makes should be on made for cable, not put out in theatres.
they only cost his fatass like 2grand to make, but people have to pay 8.50 to go see some shit we already knew.

[Induna]

But if people weren't interested in his opinions then they wouldn't pay $8.50 in the first place.

[Induna]

By the way there's a NOX release of this film.

[Cunning Linguist]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

And after you read those pages, Michael Moore talks abou them here:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

[YWD67]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

You may want to got to the home page(http://www.richardbushnell.com/) of the creator of the "Bowling For Truth", before you got to the website posted by potato. It gives you a little insight to the mind set and political one sidedness of the individual. Believe me there is nothing fair and balanced in his views on the use and owership of firearms. Basicaly anything that you want that is pro-ultra conservtive he has links for; plus two other sites that he has going himself.

[syntax]

Michael Moore is a mud slinging, flaming liberal. I wouldnt waste my time with this movie if the truth is what you are interested in getting. No wonder it did so well in Cannes, They're French. Enough said.

[cjules13]

Big fat boo on Michael Moore - and I'm not a Bush guy either. He does way more harm than good by distorting the facts and presenting misleading statistics. Be smart if you're going to consume his drivel, and take it for face value only - the guy is not very smart and not some sort of prophet.

[Afn]

Moore, like everyone is entitled to his opinons
He never just reports on a topic to try and get people to think...
It screams of personal agendas and propaganda
Like most things self-inflated ego-maniacle writers and film makers put out there in the political stream of waste.
Media has a responsiblity to be objective.

Moore made a low budget film called "Roger and Me" and that gave him celebrity and status.

More's work could be fantastic quality, but if you have the unfortunate experience of reading his material, you find that he takes a very good concept, "Dude what happened to my country?" and fills it with personal attacks and other nonsense. Good hardcore reporting is what is needed.

Factual based unbiased reporting causes social change. I define unbiased reporting as reporting being in the community interest.

Media has a responsiblity to be objective.

[tamarisk]

If he attacks people without proof, then they should take him to court.

If he shows proof then no problem.

[Burd]

I had one of my classes do some research (I'm a college English teacher) on "Bowling for Columbine." Every fact presented in the movie was confirmed. There were no "lies". As for presenting things in a certain order to make a point, that's called "editing," and that's what the director/producer is supposed to do; otherwise, you just have a random presentation which makes no point. The point is called the "theme," and every movie has a "theme." The "real man" gunowners were there, including the ulitmate one, Charlton Heston. And, everything he said, he really said. Actually, the whole point of the movie was not guns; it was Fear and how the media in the U.S. manipulates our citizens to consume by scaring us to death. (Duct tape and plastic sales soared after 9-11.) As far as our ever seeing this new one, I hope someone puts it in file sharing. I don't usually download movies, but I might give this one a try. The Bush Aministration is really into Censorship, as we all know. He and his cronies want to control every thing we see and hear. Be on guard, because our Freedoms are being stolen from us, and--just like in Germany in the 1930's--it's by our own leaders.

[Afn]

If he attacks people without proof, then they should take him to court.

If he shows proof then no problem.

People who have celebrity status have a higher 'burden of proof' when suing for libel.

The problem is with the framing of issues. It is fact that the Bush family made it's money in oil. Like it or not, energy and public policy in general will be pro-oil. You can not expect the Bush family to devalue it's oil holdings.

[cjules13]

Every fact presented in the movie was confirmed. There were no "lies".By who? Your class? Or some random sources they found? I don't buy it...

[Afn]

As for presenting things in a certain order to make a point, that's called "editing," and that's what the director/producer is supposed to do; otherwise, you just have a random presentation which makes no point.
It is called agitprop, propaganda and stacking the deck. The issue is framed from a single minded viewpoint that is flawed, in my opinion, because the presenter is only interested in truth as it relates to re-enforcing his ideological agenda.



Censorship, as we all know. He and his cronies want to control every thing we see and hear. Be on guard, because our Freedoms are being stolen from us, and--just like in Germany in the 1930's--it's by our own leaders.
You have to have money and support from the corporations that sponsor/pay for your trip through the election cycle. Do not expect anyone to give political contributions in large amounts and not expect anything positive in return.

Challenge your students to see through the smoke and mirrors of intellectual discourse.

[bookmansour]

BURD just because there were no lies doesn't mean there is no lies when it is "edited" in a misleading fashion...
Like that stupid E=mail that makes the round every so often about the leaders you would want
One smokes, drinks, is unfaithful to his wife, blah, blah, blah....
The other is healthy hates smoke, drink, drugs, and infidelity.
unfortunately he hated Jews, musicians, artists, gypsys, and countless others as well...

(first was JFK, 2nd was Hitler if you haven't guessed already)
It's misleading for the purpose of envoking a desired response or thought

And another thing... (as long as we're on a Hitler roll)
STOP COMPARING THE USA TO NAZI GERMANY

anytime you disagree w/ the politics of your country (or any country for that matter)
address your greivences like an adult
we are NOTHING like the nazis
Stop being so self-rightious

[c411Z]

man!, lazy cannies reviewers dont know how to make a CAM ?

[syntax]

Hey Burd if Bush and his cronies are so into censorship, why do they let the mainstream media bash the HELL out of them every chance they get. Im also with Bookmansour, stop calling the US a bunch of Nazis, there is absolutely NO COMPARISON.

[syntax]

Also Burd wasnt it during the Clinton admin. that someone named Tipper Gore (maybe the wfe of Al Gore I dont know) helped to lead a campaign to put the little sticker on the record albums. Sounds a little like censorship to me.

[bookmansour]

I HATE stickers....
They're sticky

[shawners]

I saw the clip of charlton being on there.. He nagged him to death and used a low tactic to get in his home so he can actually try to make him look like a putz. HIs questions and everything was planned out to attack him. How can people just take something as the constitution and say cause you want the right to bare arms.. your just a killer. IF someone stands up for what they believe and want to support. Let them. Guns dont kill people, people kill people. Yeah their is a lot less gun murders in the UK since guns are banned.. But how many people get murdered from people with Knifes, and bats?

[YWD67]

I saw the clip of charlton being on there.. He nagged him to death and used a low tactic to get in his home so he can actually try to make him look like a putz. HIs questions and everything was planned out to attack him. How can people just take something as the constitution and say cause you want the right to bare arms.. your just a killer. IF someone stands up for what they believe and want to support. Let them. Guns dont kill people, people kill people. Yeah their is a lot less gun murders in the UK since guns are banned.. But how many people get murdered from people with Knifes, and bats?

A lot less then firearms that is for sure. Can't recall that last time I heard of a drive by batting of someone , or someone sitting in the woods throwing knives at children over 100 yds away and killing several. Sorry Apples and oranges.

[hawkburn]

People are responding to it very well at Cannes and Moore is hoping for a summer release and a video release in October. (just in time for the election)

Maybe then some people will see that this president IS SO BAD that he is the only one in history ( I think) to have a feature film critizizing him DURING his term in office. Get Bush out of office!
Amen to that.

[SuitablyTwisted]

Fist lesson:
The First Amendment prevents censorship BY THE GOVERNMENT! Disney, as a private corporation is allowed to censor its own product. Besides, it was just a publicity stunt. The conversation occurred over a year ago, and a subsidiary of Miramax is handling distribution. Moore's film will be marketed & released to the bleating sheep of the Left, just as he intended. The First Amendment guarantees that the GOVERNMENT can do nothing to stop its release. If individual theater chains decide not to screen it, it is their prerogative. If Wally World decides not to carry it, it is their choice. If you decide to watch it, you will be free to do so, and the government will not impede your viewing pleasure.

[rebirth]

So, I actually like his shockumentaries. They're kinda funny...and they really expose underbellies of society. I can't wait to see Fahrenheit

[Burd]

I still challenge anyone to tell me one item that was presented as a fact in "Bowling For Columbine" that was indeed a lie. You won't be able to find one. The students in my class who did research on this film were of various political persuations. Some changed their minds after doing the research. Others didn't. Where did they do their research? In the LIBRARY. Ever hear of that place? It's one of the institutions of this country that is under attack by King George with his wonderful Patriot Act. He wants to know what everybody is reading, and the Librarian could be put in jail if s/he warns a patron that s/he is being investigated. Did you know that the Patriot Act was written long BEFORE 9/11? The terrorist attacks were used as an opportunity to rush it into law. How do I know this? Because I am allowed to do research. But, those who love King George so much don't need to to research. They just believe everything that the Bush Administration tells them. It must be so easy to have the FCC make all your viewing and listening choices for you. And, you're right...we are NOT Nazi Germany, because, unlike in Germany in the 1930's, there are people in this country who WON'T let it happen here! We're going to fight it every inch of the way.

[Burd]

Oh, and by the way, what makes some think that because I am cirtical of George W. Bush that I must be a Clinton supporter? Clinton screwed up, so that makes it o.k. for Bush to do what he's doing? Hardly. I voted for Ralph Nader the last go around. But, G.W. is messing up so badly that he's actually making the Democrats look preferable this time.

[Miniver]

you voted for nader...you practically put bush into office.

[shawners]

Fist lesson:
The First Amendment prevents censorship BY THE GOVERNMENT! Disney, as a private corporation is allowed to censor its own product. Besides, it was just a publicity stunt. The conversation occurred over a year ago, and a subsidiary of Miramax is handling distribution. Moore's film will be marketed & released to the bleating sheep of the Left, just as he intended. The First Amendment guarantees that the GOVERNMENT can do nothing to stop its release. If individual theater chains decide not to screen it, it is their prerogative. If Wally World decides not to carry it, it is their choice. If you decide to watch it, you will be free to do so, and the government will not impede your viewing pleasure.


Disney did a bad job of censoring Gay day at the park :P~

[shawners]

A lot less then firearms that is for sure. Can't recall that last time I heard of a drive by batting of someone , or someone sitting in the woods throwing knives at children over 100 yds away and killing several. Sorry Apples and oranges.


Remember Jack THe RIPPER??

[bookmansour]

So you agree we are NOT nazi germany...
But your delusioned enough to think that we are BECOMING a facist country?
Open your eyes! There is NO comparisson...
I'm not a Bush supporter either, but at least I'm smart enough to take things for face value...
Your afraid that the American people BLINDLY believe what the media tells them yet here you are on your knees before Moore...
(not a good place by the way)

Quit your pompous soap box banter...
You can't be that self righteous...
The "do as i say, not as i do" bullshit has to stop

Think about how hippocritical your statments are
Don't be defensive for the sake of defense...
Stop....
and think.


(p.s. this isn't written in anger nor should it be read that way...)

[Redneck4sure]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/


Nice post Potato!! :aim

[Afn]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/
The real issue of Columbine was never addressed. Poor children who were killed by two students. the REAL issue was and is PEER on PEER psychological and physical violence in our schools.

Frontline did a documentary on school shootings, and featured a kid who had a wierd name Kaus or something. This kid every day was the focus of verbal abuse, shoving, pushing, taunting, ect.

In retrospect, it was a no-brainer that he took a gun and got relief from this torrent of abuse.

Columbine was a message, made national stars out of the local law enforcement, giving talks to other agencies about Columbine.

Personally, I think the kids that got shot at Columbine deserved it. Untill we create a society that works for everyone, your going to see more of this.

[bookmansour]

Personally, I think the kids that got shot at Columbine deserved it. Untill we create a society that works for everyone, your going to see more of this.

The kids that were shot were'nt necessarily the kids that were "picking" on them...
The issue is parents no longer teach their children that that sort of behaviour is innappropriate
The school system is too "p.c." to punish kids,
and the kids never really learn how to deal w/ their problems...
I don't see how the shootings could have occurred if the parents were paying any attention to the kids...
The kids were planning for months and making videos in their room...

One last thing, I got picked on plenty as I'm sure half the nerds in here did...
It makes you stronger, you learn to deal w/ it, by either realizing that people are fools and don't know better, or by confonting the issue peacably.... or at least no more violent that a black eye...

[Afn]

The kids that were shot were'nt necessarily the kids that were "picking" on them... 1.



The issue is parents no longer teach their children that that sort of behaviour is innappropriate 2.

The school system is too "p.c." to punish kids 3.

and the kids never really learn how to deal w/ their problems... 4.

I don't see how the shootings could have occurred if the parents were paying any attention to the kids... The kids were planning for months and making videos in their room... 5.

One last thing, I got picked on plenty as I'm sure half the nerds in here did... 6.
It makes you stronger, you learn to deal w/ it, by either realizing that people are fools and don't know better, or by confonting the issue peacably.... or at least no more violent that a black eye... 7.
1. It was more than "picking" on them, it was daily psychological and in some cases physical abuse.
2. We are talking about peer on peer abuse every day. Some parents have issues that prevent social skills or are unable to meet the pyschological needs of themselves or their kids.
3. Schools never had good psychological traning program. I remember "up with people", what a waste of time. Then there was some multimedia slideshow sponsored by a soft-drink company. I thought how absurb that a softdrink company was sponsoring better pyschological health for teenagers.
4. Do you think if you were physically and psychologically abused every day or every few days for several years in public school, do you think you would love the people that made your life a living hell?
5. They were planning a solution to a serious problem, daily pyschological and some cases physical abuse.
6. Some families are well adjusted. Perhaps you grew up in a family that had serious problems, the last experience you want to have is daily psycological and physical abuse for just going to school to earn your diploma so you can graduate.
7. A black eye? That is battery.

[Induna]

How many people here own a gun? Do you feel safe without one?





btw, that NOX release I told you about. It's fake. I d/l the.txt file off ed2k.

"It's an uncompressed AVI file that lasts only 56 seconds and is the intro
to a UK film and only shows someone chopping an onion!

It is NOT the Fahrenheit 9/11 doco by Michael Moore!"


Shit.

[Redneck4sure]

As an old fart who successfully raised a son, (success defined as we both lived through it) I can say that the peer tormenting is commonplace and on that I think we all agree. I made him understand at a very early age that it was not acceptable and what I expected of his behavior. I made frequent trips to the school and often spent lunch with him. I never saw him engage in that type of behavior nor did I hear any complaints from the teachers. Parents need to take the responsibilty of ensuring their childrens behavior. I know that some can't spend the time with them that I did mine. When the kids are allowed to run wild you can expect negative results. Columbine was a terrible situation. Terrible for the shooters and for those that were shot. Terrible for the families of all concerned. And terrible that Moore produces a piece of trash, calls it a documentary, and wins an award.

[Redneck4sure]

[QUOTE=Induna]How many people here own a gun? Do you feel safe without one?QUOTE]


I am not going to awswer that! :shoot

[bookmansour]

7. A black eye? That is battery.

Your up in arms over a black eye being battery, yet you make all these excuses for kids that murdered other children?

There's somthing not right in that logic.

[bookmansour]

As an old fart who successfully raised a son, (success defined as we both lived through it) I can say that the peer tormenting is commonplace and on that I think we all agree. I made him understand at a very early age that it was not acceptable and what I expected of his behavior. I made frequent trips to the school and often spent lunch with him. I never saw him engage in that type of behavior nor did I hear any complaints from the teachers. Parents need to take the responsibilty of ensuring their childrens behavior. I know that some can't spend the time with them that I did mine. When the kids are allowed to run wild you can expect negative results. Columbine was a terrible situation. Terrible for the shooters and for those that were shot. Terrible for the families of all concerned. And terrible that Moore produces a piece of trash, calls it a documentary, and wins an award.

Good form!

[Burd]

Voting for Ralph Nader did not put Bush in office. You're assuming that everyone who voted for Nader would have voted for Gore if Nader weren't there. That's as faulty as the RIAA's saying that those who downloaded an album would have bought it if the free download were not available. We know that's not true. Faulty reasoning. What put Bush in office is the corrupt political system in Florida (and guess who's Governor there.) And, I'm not "on my knees" before Michael Moore. I saw that ONE film by him and I'm saying that that ONE film was accurate and delivered its message well. Maybe his new film will suck; but, I'll have to see if before I can judge it. Something that George Bush and his friends at Disney obviously don't want me to do. And, Moore is hardly the "mainline media." As for my being "self-righteous," I'd have to go a long way to be MORE self-righteous than the policital conservatives in this country. They want to control what we all see and hear (example: forcing Howard Stern off the air...I know, you don't like him any way, but that's not the point.) Bush wants to prevent us from seeing the coffins coming home from Iraq, but it's o.k. to use a coffin of someone killed in 9/11 in his political ad? Bush's almost non-existent service to his country during the Vietnam War is somehow preferable to Kerry's actaully BEING in Vietnam and fighting at the time? (There's certainly nothing wrong with not having been in the military, but to claim that you "served" when you actually did nothing of the kind is really low!) Bush and the far right want to prevent gays and lesbians from getting married (viva the Gay State, by the way--in spite of our illustrious governor Mitt The Nitwit Romney), and their reasons for doing so are based solely on self righteous reasoning ("it's just plain dirty and a sin!") So, let's sum up: rigged elections, censoring those who express controversial ideas, denying the public its right to know, all-out lying, attempting to deny equal rights to a significant portion of the population. Not Facist? I'M self-righteous? Hmmmm.

[shawners]

I dont have a gun, but i would love to go out into the field and practice shooting one. And possibly buying one. I was picked on in my school, from elementry to highschool. As always my resolution wasnt to treat others the way some treated me. Its the worst thing to do is to pick on a kid during their development. it lowers their self-esteem. Obviously, moore never went into the kids mind of what set them off. He just said it was easy to get guns, and got them from Kmart and another place. Yet, the innocence died long ago. The kids they shot, wasnt innocent at all. Some got in the way or they shot for fun. But i blame the behavior of the kids teasing and taunting them. When kids get teased to death, they will keep alot of resentment, and anger inside. So its harder to keep up with what your kids may be thinking or doing. Moral of the story, make friends, cause later in life you will find out that your rude behavior has changed a person from becoming a better person and a happier one.

P.s.
Congrats redneck for your kid making it out with you both alive =) Is he totaly out of school now? Im so afraid to send my kid to public schools that i may have to save up for private.

[YWD67]

[QUOTE=Induna]How many people here own a gun? Do you feel safe without one?QUOTE]


I am not going to awswer that! :shoot

I will! No I don't own one and feel safe without one; as does the rest of my family.
Oh, before anyone asks no I am not an anti-gun nut just an anti-use a gun to solve your problems nut.

[YWD67]

Remember Jack THe RIPPER??


U.S. Department of Justice · Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics

Weapon use in violent crimes:

In 2002, 21% of the incidents of violent crime, a weapon was present.

Offenders had or used a weapon in 46% of all robberies, compared with 7% of all rapes/sexual assaults in 2002.

Homicides are most often committed with guns, especially handguns. In 2000, 52% of homicides were committed with handguns, 14% with other guns, 14% with knives, 5% with blunt objects, and 15% with other weapons.

In each of 12 cities surveyed in 1998, victims said that less than half of the violent crimes involved a weapon.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/

[Afn]

Your up in arms over a black eye being battery, yet you make all these excuses for kids that murdered other children?


The real issue of Columbine was never addressed in our public schools in a comprehesive way. I am no making excuses for the kids that murdered other kids, I am saying that it happened and good. Let's address the REAL issue behind the shooting.

The real issue of Columbine is how some children are systematically tortured in our public schools. Peer on peer abuse. The lesson is better education. Peer on peer violence is a serious issue. The cause of Columbine was peer on peer daily abuse that pulled the trigger.

[Afn]

Im so afraid to send my kid to public schools that i may have to save up for private.
You have to teach your kids intellectual self defense. Schools have changed from when we were in school in the 70's 80's or 90's. Colombine created alot of academic research in how to prevent this type of situation from occuring, but it will be years to see what techniques work and what techniques do not work as the kids go through the system.

[CompuGeek]

Don't talk about private schools like they're a safe shelter for kids. They're not. The same kind of bullying and hazing happens in a school regardless of whether it is public or private. In fact, it's usually worse at private schools because with a smaller student body you can't be anonymous and anyone who's not in a clique is treated cruelly.

[YWD67]

So you agree we are NOT nazi germany...
But your delusioned enough to think that we are BECOMING a facist country?
Open your eyes! There is NO comparisson...
I'm not a Bush supporter either, but at least I'm smart enough to take things for face value...
Your afraid that the American people BLINDLY believe what the media tells them yet here you are on your knees before Moore...
(not a good place by the way)

Quit your pompous soap box banter...
You can't be that self righteous...
The "do as i say, not as i do" bullshit has to stop

Think about how hippocritical your statments are
Don't be defensive for the sake of defense...
Stop....
and think.


(p.s. this isn't written in anger nor should it be read that way...)

It sure as hell was not written in the spirit of peace and love either!

[broadwayrock]

Fahrenheit 9/11 has won the top award at the cannes festival

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/movies/22WIRE-CANNES.html?ex=1085889600&en=ec6c03cd1d61af71&ei=5 062&partner=GOOGLE

second place went to Park Chan wook's Old Boy which im still waiting for the dvd to arrive.

[Afn]

A few comments:

The movie should have been edited down to an hour.

The real issue is state sponsored poverty, the great divide between corporations and the communities they serve, poor healthcare and Mr. Moore's personal crusade for handgun control.

Kmart's change to stop selling 99mm handgun shells made it look like a responsible corporate citizen. Leave ammo sales to gun shops. Mr. Moore should have been more explict in the fact he wanted the end of mass market handgun sales to end.

As for Marlyn Manson's interview, the real issue should have been why you produce such a profane product? Why do you produce anti-social entertainment? How is your artistic artwork positive for the people and communities who listen and sell your product?

Dick Clark was defenseless, but should have agreed to an interview. Even if he was interviewed, the business that used his name was not responsible. Guilty were the welfare to work program(s) and the lack of high paying, local jobs after GM closed it's Flint, Mi. factory. Somepeople said the mother was a crack addict, if so where was child services?

Not a bad movie, even if there were a few factual errors. The song heard at the begining of the movie was called "Take The Skinheads Bowling" by Camper Van beethoven. I could only think of "Mr. Rogers RICH neighborhood" when Mr. Moore was walking up the drive of Mr. Heston's driveway. If anything, the movie showed how divided and unequal our society has become.

[Redneck4sure]

I will! No I don't own one and feel safe without one; as does the rest of my family.
Oh, before anyone asks no I am not an anti-gun nut just an anti-use a gun to solve your problems nut.


That is great. If you have small children, a violent temper, or you are not familiar with guns and don't have the time and opportunity to get professional lessons, or you like to stay drunk and do stupid things, maybe guns are not for you. I tell all my friends that have a tendancy to drink to excess not to get a gun and especially don't get a concealed carry permit. That includes my brother. No gun in the house reduces the risk of accident and/or foolish action.

However, neither my wife or my 21 yr old son feels safe without a firearm. You probably live in a better neighborhood. I live in Dallas, Tx. and the police response time is wholly inadequate when facing an intruder. I am rarely more than 5 sec away from my Glock. I can't get a 911 operator to answer the phone that fast.

Here are some facts I pulled up. I am sure you can pull up others. Guns are not the solution to all my problems, however, it is the best solution for me when facing an intruder/burglar/assailant on my property. I'll call 911 later. The info below came from a website which I have never been on before so I will tell you I have not checked them out. Here is the link: http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm The law referred to in the first paragraph is the Fla. concealed carry law.

* When the law went into effect, the Dade County Police began a program to record all arrest and non arrest incidents involving concealed carry licensees. Between September of 1987 and August of 1992, Dade County recorded 4 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. None of these crimes resulted in an injury. The record keeping program was abandoned in 1992 because there were not enough incidents to justify tracking them. (13)(15)

* Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred:
Florida United States
homicide rate -36% -.4%
firearm homicide rate -37% +15%
handgun homicide rate -41% +24%
(3)

* 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. (15)

* As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense. (7)

* As of 1998, no permit holder has ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life. (7)

[lil_amb]

Fahrenheit 9/11 has won the top award at the cannes festival

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/movies/22WIRE-CANNES.html?ex=1085889600&en=ec6c03cd1d61af71&ei=5 062&partner=GOOGLE

second place went to Park Chan wook's Old Boy which im still waiting for the dvd to arrive.



I just watched the news and thats what they had said.


as for guns ...dont own um but can use them but dont. :)

[Redneck4sure]

lil_amb, where is Redneck Heaven? (please don't say a trailer park located between a liquor store and a junk yard, and across the street from a bail bondsman and a gun dealer.) :-)

[shawners]

U.S. Department of Justice · Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics

Weapon use in violent crimes:

In 2002, 21% of the incidents of violent crime, a weapon was present.

Offenders had or used a weapon in 46% of all robberies, compared with 7% of all rapes/sexual assaults in 2002.

Homicides are most often committed with guns, especially handguns. In 2000, 52% of homicides were committed with handguns, 14% with other guns, 14% with knives, 5% with blunt objects, and 15% with other weapons.

In each of 12 cities surveyed in 1998, victims said that less than half of the violent crimes involved a weapon.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/

would you rather have robbers and criminals use there barehands and attack you. at least they use a weapon, thank heavens you dont get punched in the face til you die.

[lil_amb]

lil_amb, where is Redneck Heaven? (please don't say a trailer park located between a liquor store and a junk yard, and across the street from a bail bondsman and a gun dealer.) :-)



well geeZ....you make it so difficult.

I live in central Illinois....in a town/village/whatever of like 40 ppl.There are cows in my back yard.....and no I'm NOT a farmer :angel

[Redneck4sure]

well geeZ....you make it so difficult.

I live in central Illinois....in a town/village/whatever of like 40 ppl.There are cows in my back yard.....and no I'm NOT a farmer :angel


I spent several years growing up on a farm in Georgia. We plowed with mules. lol

The problem is......I never grew up. I just got old. :-)

[lil_amb]

LOL....well there is a guy here who thinks he's a farmer, he has a camel and a horse(so he doesn't really qualify)

[Redneck4sure]

That's too funny!! I can't imagine someone with 2 head of livestock. A camel and a horse.

In Illinois.

LOL that is funny as hell. I wish him good luck!

[lil_amb]

I missed the whole "old" part LOL. Sorry to hear that man...I doubt I ever grow up or old :D

And yea...this "farmer" needs help....maybe I'll plant a few errrr "plants" to help him out :shy

[YWD67]

[QUOTE=Redneck4sure]That is great. If you have small children, a violent temper, or you are not familiar with guns and don't have the time and opportunity to get professional lessons, or you like to stay drunk and do stupid things, maybe guns are not for you. I tell all my friends that have a tendancy to drink to excess not to get a gun and especially don't get a concealed carry permit. That includes my brother. No gun in the house reduces the risk of accident and/or foolish action.(QUOTE)

I have had over 25 yrs of working with firearms (check profile) such as assorted hand guns, rifles,automatic weapons etc. I live and worked in Fl over 15yrs in Sarasota co.
Most of that was during the cocaine 80's when automatic weapons made their appearance on the street. Most of the reduction in violent crime during the times stated by you were the result of the decrease in the crack plauge of that time. During my 25 yrs I found that many weapons used in violent crimes most were not purchased but stolen from the general public. Many were used against the very owner who had the weapon for home protection such as yourself. Many were stolen from people with numerous weapons in their homes. Two incidents I worked resulted in the weapons being used in homicides later. During my 25 years I carried a firearm off duty less then a dozen times. I have learned that the positive aspects of having a gun in the home as a means of protection are far out weighed by the neagtive. Having a weapon with such ready avalibility makes it just as avalible to an intruder as well, unless you have it on your person.

[g0b]

Ugh, whether or not you agree with Moore or not, I think it's obvious that there would be far less deaths without guns.

[shawners]

The main thing is that people compare guns to gun violence, yet leave out the good things they have done. Cops use them for protection, hunters to hunt.. ARMY to serve and protect. If the people had a gun or had a licence to carry a handgun.. Maybe those lifes that was lost to gun violence would be alive today. Ask any criminal who is handicap or went to the hospital, and they may say that they wouldnt attack a person knowing they could carry a handgun or had one in their home. People attack the weak, give a person power, and a chance to live. They are less likely to become victoms. Making it hard for felons and criminals to get handguns need to be done. Without the right to carry a gun, your living in a monarchy, a comunist country. You can state facts to how many have died to gun violence, but your not stating the fact that these was criminals, children that had poorly supervision that got the gun, or the fact that these were mental or sick people that used the gun to kill someone.

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

NEW YORK (CBS.MW) -- Miramax founders Bob and Harvey Weinstein have obtained the rights to Michael Moore's new movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11," according to the Walt Disney Co., which had held the authorization but had declined to show the controversial film.

The brothers Weinstein officially acquired the rights through the Fellowship Adventure Group, which Disney said in a press release (DIS: news, chart, profile) is a special-purpose company. The Weinsteins bought the rights independently from the Miramax Film Corp., a Disney subsidiary, and have paid Miramax for all costs of the film so far.

"Fahrenheit 9/11," which won the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival last week, is said to feature a scathing critique of the Bush administration's policy in Iraq. The movie's overt political content made Disney uncomfortable, though the company staunchly denied it was censoring Moore.

Disney's shares dropped 24 cents to $23.47.

Read entire story here (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BE8BADCD1%2D858F%2D4CD1%2D81DB%2DB5EB367FB4 30%7D) .

[notbob]

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DISNEY_MICHAEL_MOORE?SITE=WIFON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

a light at the end of the tunnel? disney is now out of the picture

[bookmansour]

Worth a read...
Sheds some light on Moore...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,1222496,00.html

[killswitch1968]

I still challenge anyone to tell me one item that was presented as a fact in "Bowling For Columbine" that was indeed a lie.

You've probably already read the hardlaw page, but here's a about as bold face as a lie can get, but it's from Stupid White Men:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/127ujhuf.asp

Summary: Moore claims to have a disparaging conversation with Fred Moore, which never took place.

[notbob]

You've probably already read the hardlaw page, but here's a about as bold face as a lie can get, but it's from Stupid White Men:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/127ujhuf.asp

Summary: Moore claims to have a disparaging conversation with Fred Moore, which never took place.

it's fred barnes, moron--if you make an argument, at least read the fucking source

it also could have been taken out of context--a hell of a lot of ellipses in there

p.s. here's a pretty fairly unbiased review of the book
http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/stupidwhitemen.html

[Burd]

I said a lie from "Bowling For Columbine." I'm NOT discussing "Stupid Whitemen," which I haven't read. Someday, after I've read it, I might be willing to discuss it. And, here's a quote from the Observer article by Andrew Anthony: "...neither Bowling for Columbine nor Roger and Me can be accused of major factual errors," Well, he said it, not me. I stand by my assessment of "Bowling For Columbine." The other works I cannot comment on, as I have not read nor viewed them.

[bookmansour]

I said a lie from "Bowling For Columbine." I'm NOT discussing "Stupid Whitemen," which I haven't read. Someday, after I've read it, I might be willing to discuss it. And, here's a quote from the Observer article by Andrew Anthony: "...neither Bowling for Columbine nor Roger and Me can be accused of major factual errors," Well, he said it, not me. I stand by my assessment of "Bowling For Columbine." The other works I cannot comment on, as I have not read nor viewed them.

Yes but it's amazing how that line when read in full takes on a whole new meaning...

"In the past, Moore has been accused of twisting chronology and events to suit his agenda. While neither Bowling for Columbine nor Roger and Me can be accused of major factual errors, both trade on a series of misleading implications."

Your doing the same thing Moore does... lying without actually lying.
What you quoted is true but your twisting it to suit your liking.

[tMoD]

I said a lie from "Bowling For Columbine." I'm NOT discussing "Stupid Whitemen," which I haven't read. Someday, after I've read it, I might be willing to discuss it. And, here's a quote from the Observer article by Andrew Anthony: "...neither Bowling for Columbine nor Roger and Me can be accused of major factual errors," Well, he said it, not me. I stand by my assessment of "Bowling For Columbine." The other works I cannot comment on, as I have not read nor viewed them.

Here ya go:
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html
http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2002_11_24_archive.html#85712328
http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2003_08_31_archive.html#1062477905999081 1
http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2003_09_21_archive.html#1064293689806628 37

[notbob]

he's a movie director and critic, not a harvard professor

the movie "pearl harbor" is full of historical innacuracies, but does it matter? the audiences who went to see it wanted explosions and hotties, and they got them

moore uses editing to make a point--but he isn't forcing you to agree with it

don't like it? who cares? you aren't his target audience

[bookmansour]

he's a movie director and critic, not a harvard professor

the movie "pearl harbor" is full of historical innacuracies, but does it matter? the audiences who went to see it wanted explosions and hotties, and they got them

moore uses editing to make a point--but he isn't forcing you to agree with it

don't like it? who cares? you aren't his target audience

Pearl Harbor was made to entertain... (who was actually entertained is a seperate issue)
Moore makes his films not to entertain but to pass them off as inherent truths...
I'm not his target audience because I don't blindly beleive his sanctemonious crap...
If he put out information he thought might help and said, "Here you go, take this for what it's worth and orm your own opinion."
If he did that I would'nt be arguing...
It's the forced agend that bothers me...
The fact that he says your to dumb to think for yourself so watch this, this is what you should think...

[notbob]

believe it or not he is an entertainer

he is trying to be funny, and as long as you aren't a corporate whore or a gun toting moron, he is

he is on the same level as limbaugh, savage, or coulter, but on the other side of the fence (there isn't a college degree or much fact checking over on their side either)

as for pearl harbor, it's sanctimonious crap too--"our brave soldiers" "kill the japs" and "fight the good fight" how about the millions of innocents killed by the atomic bomb? how good is that? how brave is it to dump bombs on strangers?

all movies push an agenda--in most it's called a storyline, and it's what holds a movie together and makes it worth watching

[bookmansour]

I agree with everything you said about Pearl Harbor (granted those were more ignorant times)

Just don't think that because I dislike Moore means I like Limbaugh, Savage, or Coulter...
I would be typing the same thing if the topic was them...

That being said I think we've all had fun here...

Let's all give a big round of applause to shaunsinger for starting this thread... Yay

[Burd]

I still don't see a lie. "Distortions," "Missleading, " ect. Seems he doesn't lie, but the right wingers don't like the WAY he presents the facts. This is what's called the "spin" , and--you know what? That's his damn job! Back to what I said originally: a movie, especially a documentary, has to have a THEME. And, I like the connections that Moore makes in "Bowling For Columbine." It gives the movie direction, a purpose. Yes, he is like Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage, only on the other side (the correct side, by the way). Eventhough I disagree (most of the time) with Limbaugh and Savage, I think that they do a good job with "the spin." They don't (most of the time) lie either. I do listen to both of them quite often. I consider it practice for when I encounter a right-of-center individual in person. I would like to call them and debate, but the people who screen their calls won't let me through. (I could lie as to my purpose, but that would be dishonest.) When they do let someone through who disagrees with the host, Limbaugh or Savage engages the caller in debate and then hangs up on him or her at an opportune point that makes the host look good. Now, is this lying? No, not really. It's editing the show. Just like Moore does his movies.

[bookmansour]

I think your too hung up on the label "lie"
Your looking past the dishonesty of their actions...
"Misleading" "misguiding" "spin", whatever you want to call them so they aren't as frightful as the word "lie" seems to be to you, It is all painting a picture that is untrue...
They are only letting you see ONE side...
And if that side is the "correct" side then WHY is there a need to mislead?
What are they afraid of?

I still think that they are egomaniacal and they think that people are too dumb to make up their own minds...
So they feel the need to tell you what to think...

Again THIS is my problem, the audacity and condesending tone

[bookmansour]

Can I get an amen!?

[Burd]

I was joking when I referred to the "correct" point of view. If a movie did not have a "spin" to it, it would not have a THEME and would be pretty dull. Even the evening news has a certain slant to it depending upon the network. (You have two stories; both are true. Which one do you lead with?) The facts should back up the point that you are trying to make. Being caught in a lie would not help your case. The difference between conservatives and liberals is not that either side lies, but that they see the "facts" from different perspectives. And I am grateful that we DO have differing points of view. If we all believed the same...well, we wouldn't need forums like this and life would be as dull as a movie without a "spin." (Maybe we can have the amen now?)

[tamarisk]

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=300374

Sunday, May 30, 2004 at 03:00 JST
PHILADELPHIA — In an unused interview shot for Michael Moore's latest film, the American who was beheaded in Iraq said he was concerned about security there as he prepared to seek work as an independent businessman, his family said Saturday.

Moore's crew shot the 16-minute interview with Nicholas Berg during an Iraqi business conference in Arlington, Va, on Dec 4, said his brother, David Berg.



Nicholas Berg's decapitated body was found in Baghdad on May 8, and a video of his killing was posted on an Islamic militant web site several days later.

Moore confirmed Thursday that he had footage of Berg — shot for his film "Fahrenheit 9/11," which is critical of President George Bush — but said he would share it only with the family.

Moore sent copies of the footage to David Berg in New Jersey and sister Sara Berg in Virginia. Their parents will see the video after returning to their suburban home from vacation, David Berg said.

Sara Berg said her brother told Moore's crew he was nervous about his safety in Iraq.

"He recognized it was a concern, and he kind of pointed out that he'd worked in difficult situations before," Sara Berg said from her home in Virginia. "It's definitely something that he didn't shrug off."

She said her brother seemed enthusiastic in the footage.

David Berg, speaking from his home outside Newark, NJ, said it was "weird seeing Nick talk," but described the interview footage as dry.

The interview, which was not conducted by Moore, centered on the technical work Berg hoped to find repairing radio transmission towers for his company, Prometheus Methods Tower Service. Berg, 26 when he died, also talks about humanitarian work he did in Uganda and Kenya.

"Nick seemed to be fairly conscious of using this thing to promote his business," David Berg said. "The interviewer does ask him at one point about the money and he said no one's denying there's money to be made. But it's very clear when you watch it, Nick knew he wasn't going to make a lot of money."

Moore said he had considered using some of the footage in his film but it got edited out, David Berg said. Some of Moore's staffers cried when they heard about Berg's death, the filmmaker told David Berg.

"Fahrenheit 9/11," which recently won the top prize at the Cannes Film Festival, accuses the Bush administration of stealing the 2000 election, overlooking terrorism warnings before Sept 11, 2001, and fanning fears of more attacks to secure American support for the Iraq war.

Given Moore's political leanings, David Berg said he was "really nervous" about what the footage of his brother might show. His brother wasn't overtly political, he said.

"He went to Iraq because he had certain beliefs about helping people in messed up situations, but it's not like he was trying to help the Bush administration," David Berg said.

David Berg said Moore handled the situation with "dignity, respect and discipline."

"Michael Moore has really been a total class act with this whole thing," David Berg said. "He could have sold this to the media or stuck it in his movie."

Sara Berg said she saw the video footage as a "gift." (Wire reports)

[nicobie]

Has anybody here ever heard the phrase; "Loose cannon"?

[notbob]

Has anybody here ever heard the phrase; "Loose cannon"?

yep

i hear this movie is about the biggest one in american history

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

Now the news everyone was waiting for...

``Fahrenheit 9/11'' to Open Nationally on June 25th

SANTA MONICA, Calif. & VANCOUVER, British Columbia & NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 1, 2004--

Bob and Harvey Weinstein's Fellowship Adventure Group to Form Coalition to Handle Release of Michael Moore's Palme D'Or-Winning Film

Harvey and Bob Weinstein, through the Fellowship Adventure Group, the newly created special-purpose company, have made arrangements for Michael Moore's Palme D'Or-winning "Fahrenheit 9/11" to be released. Under this arrangement, the Fellowship Adventure Group will join with Lions Gate Films, the motion picture production and distribution arm of Lions Gate Entertainment (AMEX:LGF - News; TSX:LGF - News), and IFC Films to distribute the film in theaters in the United States. Pay TV rights will be handled by Showtime, Lions Gate's Pay TV partner. The film will reach theaters nationwide on June 25th.

The Weinsteins, through the Fellowship Adventure Group, have appointed creative advertising and marketing consultant Matthew Cohen as marketing director for this company to create and oversee all marketing materials. Ken Sunshine Consultants has been hired to handle PR for the company and will work closely with the Weinsteins and the coalition on the film's release.

Read entire story here (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040601/16188_1.html).