Does god exist?

[downloadalot]

The ultimate poll...

[broadwayrock]

no




The end

[broadwayrock]

Dog is god spelt backwards and dogs exist....

so maybe he does.

But dogs keep leaving crap everywhere i walk.....

[DMB-Fan]

Of course there is a creator....to say no is such an small odd gesture of defiance... odd

[joey tribiani]

...........No!

[smokingbevel]

I have selected "no" as a matter of convenience. It may be considered timelessly impossible to absolutely and universally prove or disprove the existence of god(s). Therefore, according to some schools of thought, god or god(s) become and remain personally irrelevant, until the observer dies as a victim from explosion in Israel.

[stewiegriffin]

Why would a god create a world full of suffering, war, ignorance and famine. Why would he bless a couple of million Westerners and leave billions in Africa and the East starving to death? Why would injustices take place every minute of the day?

The world today is a sickening place and any just god would not allow it to be so. Why would anyone 'create' human life, just to sit there and see so many of them suffer?

Unless God's some kind of masochist...

[Ezza6745]

No.......simple as you going to prove any diffrent any proof except a couple of old books, lol

[notbob]

does it matter whether or not a god really exists? people will kill each other in the name of one whether it exists or not

[gorphon]

does it matter whether or not a god really exists? people will kill each othe in the name of one whether it exists or not


hey notbob!

my god can beat up your god!!! har! har! har!

[notbob]

i'd have to forfeit the match

[gorphon]

hmmmm... forfeit away! We're coming for your holy land!

[DMB-Fan]

Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.

[tamarisk]

Sorry but God exists, otherwise how would certain "miracles" be explained, when not even the scientific community can explain it.

Another reason God exists is due to possesions by evil being.

Plus as regards the reason that how can God exist if there is this amount of suffering in this world. Well the answer is simple, God gave us the right to choose. We can either use it in a good way. All of us individually decide how to use our "talents" it is up to us whether we use it for good or bad.

An example is Nuclear power. It can be used to kill people e.g. nuclear bomb or for "good" like producing nuclear energy.

[Betamax]

In a word: YES! ...and he is bipolar!

http://www.theonion.com/onion3716/god_diagnosed_bipolar.html

[DMB-Fan]

and a sadist

[bobhss]

I went with Yes on this one, that's what I believe. If you don't believe then that's your choice. Maybe a better question is: Do you choose to believe God exists or do you choose to believe that God does not exist? Because for one of you to show 100% conclusive evidence either way to convince every person on the earth that he does or does not exist is impossible.

[IHATEJIMMYPAGE]

No, I don't think so....but as notbob said, "does it really matter?"...yeah for some people belief in god is really a lagre part of their lives, representing hope and an easy awnser to everything "the will of god", "god will keep you safe" but really...dosen't all the trouble and killing, and destruction in god's name outweigh the "hope and security" of the mystical force...if there is a god, (he/she/it, whatever) is not the caretaker that is percieved to be...

[DMB-Fan]

hehe off topic but I love that sig man

[quilted-yak]

Sure there is a God.
In the Garden of Eden, the Devil claimed God a liar and that he was holding something good back from mankind.
Destroying them all would only prove him to be a bully, so he gave mankind an opportunity to rule themselves - hence all the suffering.
God permits wickedness to prove he wasn't lying, and that mankind cannot rule themselves.

[Psilaxs]

does it matter whether or not a god really exists? people will kill each other in the name of one whether it exists or not

Being a person of faith i can still agree with you to some degree notbob. It is a shame people use faith as a reason to slaughter one another. Though that behavior is not intrinsic in all faiths, or all modern day faiths.

I just find it a shame that because of some extremists (whether muslim, catholic etc) it turns people off to the idea of God the creator. And they abandon all hope /possibilities of faith

[sevin0seven]

Yes, I believe there is a God. I think one good way you can prove there is a God is if you just ask him personally. "Are you real or not?" then it starts.....

[Psilaxs]

Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.


Nice quote of Al Pacino from the Movie Devils Advocate

[aqlo]

Yes, I believe there is a God. I think one good way you can prove there is a God is if you just ask him personally. "Are you real or not?" then it starts.....

What a great answer! That's the sort of answer that comes from actual practice right there.

Great first post material, welcome to Zeropaid

[Candy-Bar-of-Doom]

Yeah I wish I could take credit for it man :-) I was wondering how long it would take for someone to notice.

[muffenme]

:fire

I have no real fact on this so I going to say I don't know.

god with an extra "o" is good.
devil with the "d" removed is evil

:hole

[PhR34x0r]

i could write at least a 1000 words why god doesnt exist and why all religions are just plain bullshit but i'll just make it short and say NO !

[streamlina]

its a proven fact that jesus rose from the dead so.. ya i believe

[YWD67]

its a proven fact that jesus rose from the dead so.. ya i believe

Proven? How, when, by whom or what? The existance of a precieved reality is not an example.

[evil-wizard-chicken-eater]

Maybe she has video footage! I would like to see that. Or maybe she thought "Passion" was a documentary

[WaReZ_d00d]

Yes, I believe there is a God. I think one good way you can prove there is a God is if you just ask him personally. "Are you real or not?" then it starts.....


Yes, I believe there is a Tooth Fairy. I think one good way you can prove there is a Tooth Fairy is if you just ask him personally. "Are you real or not?" then it starts.....

[c411Z]

y do people try to justify with lies and assumptions? that is using religion to make violent communication.

and y tie the word hope to dogmatism? hope is a feeling we all can experience if our needs are being met or about to be met.

there should be a 3rd option here , most likely not. or a 4th yes but by my own naturalistic definition


i would like to know what the people who have 'faith' thing about this pages stance on spirituality http://www.cnvc.org/spirital.htm
its a FAQ about the spiritual basis of non violent communication.
basically it says make your own definition and relate it to your own loved life energy. don't assume or be dominated by no jesus in a bowl of germs or no mohammed in a bowl of germs. (17-jared_paul-jesus_in_a_bowl_of_germs-2004-ftd.mp3) great song.. i recommend you chk it off the new Sage Francis VA compilation.

[IHATEJIMMYPAGE]

I bet there's a good answer to all this on urbandictionary.com...

*checks dictionary*

An imaginary father figure used to scare little kids into not masturbating.

Your god sure loves the cock. He is insatiable.

...or....

A clever illusion designed by the mentally ill to keep human civilization from reaching the stars. An illusion created to prevent humans from accepting that they die and decay away like every other living being, and to effectively control the gullible, stupid majority of the human species.

God is the answer to all problems. Not technology, logic, education, because they are evil and not of God.


...and there you have it...

[WaReZ_d00d]

The worst thing about religious people is they won't be around to find out how wrong they were.

[toenailsofjohnwayne]

Wow I have voted yes like 7 times and its still loosing. File shares are a bunch of atheist(sp)

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

Wow I have voted yes like 7 times and its still loosing. File shares are a bunch of atheist(sp)
Well that speaks something of the religious lot.

I am also waiting for streamlina's rebuttal. And of course, Dallas. Don't let us down.

:angel

'The Law of God? Look at it, it's a pack of lies from the lying pen of Scribes.'
Jeremiah (8.8)

[begoodbebad]

Yes God exists, but he can't come to the phone right now, please leave a message after the tone and he'll get back to you

[ThePillarOfAutumn]

No
No
No
and
No

humans wrote that book - your living a fantasy life if you believe he does.

stupid humans.

[Sk8er Boi]

Everyone, it doesn't matter who you are or how old you are. But everyone needs someone to believe in, and rely on.

When you were a kid it was your parents, when you're a teenager it's your friends, and so on and so forth. But what happens when you realize that mankind has failed you? That you can't rely on anyone? That no one will be able to be there 100% of the time to support you? You have to believe in something, some people chose to ignore when mankind fails, other people acknowledge that and realize that no matter who many times man does fail there will always be someone their that doesn't fail. Also, you need something to believe in. You need a shoulder to lean on when the road is hard.


Why would a god create a world full of suffering, war, ignorance and famine. Why would he bless a couple of million Westerners and leave billions in Africa and the East starving to death? Why would injustices take place every minute of the day?

The world today is a sickening place and any just god would not allow it to be so. Why would anyone 'create' human life, just to sit there and see so many of them suffer?

Unless God's some kind of masochist...

The answer is simple. God gave us free will. Free willto do as we want and hopefully chose him. What fun is it when the only option you have is something? I'd rather have people come to me out of their own free will then to have to force them to come to me. The same holds true with God. Its people who cause the suffering, war and ignorence not God.

Also, there is historical proof that Jesus actually existed. And if Jesus actually existed then he was a real person, which would make him the actual messiah, the son of God.

edit: I defy one of you to show me a "mistake" in the bible that cannot be explained with further reading, in other words a mistake thats not there because you're taking something out of context like "cain killed able, and the bible later says 'go forth and do the same' so we should kill our brothers"

editx2: the passion was as close to a documentary about the last 12 hours of jesus' life as we will probably ever get.

[kiwibank]

in my home...i`m god


_____________________________________________

on zeropaid, it pays to be "flame resistant". it`s a matter of survival.

[Jallexon2]

Hello. Here is some help for those you who would like answers to some of the points you are raising about why evil stuff happens or why God allows evil stuff to happen:

www.gmaa.org

or

http://www.givemeananswer.org/main/home/index.html

The guy who runs this site goes out to colleges and dumb founds the students. Check the site and his show out sometime. Show times are posted on the site.

[c411Z]

Lord of the dense. who is dallas? me?

evil & common good are fake. get down to what really maters our shared needs. & feelings in moments telling us about the fulfillment these universal needs or not. then make requests based of observations that can be concenced upon.

morals are wack. they imply prejudice (pre-judgment) in strategy, tactics and aftspracke (should, have to, ought to) nazi german tactics to make people conform to domination.

as one of the last of the tribe known as the Franks of Charlemagne i would like to apologize if i could for my forefathers for having tricked and coerced people into 'believing' in order to have power over them , stupid old trick used by the Romans to consolidate power, it was not necessary you can't blow up a social relationship.

[YWD67]

Why is it that we can not lay or heads on the shoulder of another person. Perhaps the preceived failure of mankind is just a mind set that you use to re-enforce your belief in god. Think about it, if you were to believe that mankind was capable of over coming any odds and reaching a greatness as a specias on its own without divine inspiration; would that not cause you to have less faith in the existacne of god. You instead chose to believe that mankind will fail you (or has failed) in order to maintain your belief in god. It is not mankind that your are worried about failing you; but rather you are worried that god will fail you for not existing.

[IshareManyFilez]

I believe there is a good but everything else in the bible is bullshit except Jesus.

[Psilaxs]

Why is it that we can not lay or heads on the shoulder of another person. Perhaps the preceived failure of mankind is just a mind set that you use to re-enforce your belief in god. Think about it, if you were to believe that mankind was capable of over coming any odds and reaching a greatness as a specias on its own without divine inspiration; would that not cause you to have less faith in the existacne of god. You instead chose to believe that mankind will fail you (or has failed) in order to maintain your belief in god. It is not mankind that your are worried about failing you; but rather you are worried that god will fail you for not existing.

That is completely untrue, everytime i see great advancements in humankind and civilization, I attribute it to god: That Mankind is using the intellect cunning and problem solving abilities that he gave us to use for our own benefit.

If mankind was NOT advancing that would be a rather strong indication of there not being a god.

[notbob]

That is completely untrue, everytime i see great advancements in humankind and civilization, I attribute it to god: That Mankind is using the intellect cunning and problem solving abilities that he gave us to use for our own benefit.

If mankind was NOT advancing that would be a rather strong indication of there not being a god.


i disagree here--imagine that god rolls a ball down a hill--he has invented the laws of physics, and the ball continues down the hill without his need to push it, as other forces, momentum, gravity, etc. have taken over

now imagine he has created people, and given them tools to survive and free will--do you think he needs to stand behind and push?

[YWD67]

That is completely untrue, everytime i see great advancements in humankind and civilization, I attribute it to god: That Mankind is using the intellect cunning and problem solving abilities that he gave us to use for our own benefit.

If mankind was NOT advancing that would be a rather strong indication of there not being a god.

Thanks for proving my point.You have to believe man is not capable of greatness by his own self determination. If you did it would mean that there would be no logical need for a belief in divine inspiration. If there is no divine inspirartion, then there is no logical need for the belief in a divine being. The belief that man is capable anything on his own is impossible if you believe in the existance of a divine being. Anyone who holds a belief in god can never believe man is capable of anything on his own.

[Psilaxs]

You guys misunderstood what i said, i said that mankind is using what god GAVE us, past-tense I didn't say god was continually pushing mankind forward, rather we are just utilizing what he gave us in the beginning.

[lil_amb]

Sadist:
n : someone who obtains pleasure from inflicting pain or others (why use words you have no idea the meaning of?)

I voted yes, and I think that there probably should of been a 3rd choice ...that being "Creator"
If there were no God, how are we here now?
Evil is not the makings of God ....evil derives from human actions that go against the will of God...and from the powers that the Devil has over all of us.
For anyone to say that you don't believe ...I fear for you on the fateful day that you pass....it will be a very lonely and upseting day for yourself.

[Sugar daddy]

yooooooo im high and my dog is flying around in a magic carpet...no! no! no! you lil pooch i did not have sex with your bitch...why u lil wise guy or dog...ill tell u something if it wasnt for me u woudnt have a leg for you to hump....ok what, how , where , who caca dooo doo brown...shake it like a poloroid picture.....fdua48-u-aqjfw-ijad-8u3-jikdsj8sa-u3-ndjne oh well what do u know i can type with my forehead

[notbob]

Sadist:

Evil is not the makings of God ....evil derives from human actions that go against the will of God...and from the powers that the Devil has over all of us.
For anyone to say that you don't believe ...I fear for you on the fateful day that you pass....it will be a very lonely and upseting day for yourself.

only problem there is what is god's will?

god's will was to give us free will

what is often called "evil" or "god's will" has been filtered through human ambitions and alterior motives to maintan a certain type of hierarchical order in society


as for the second part, why should you worry about someone else's "fateful day"? there is no more evidence that they are wrong than there is that you are

the problem with religion is that it provides formulaic answers and discourages independent thought--think about it--why is your religion right? because you were born into it?

[sevin0seven]

thanks aqlo...just speaking from experience :P

[lil_amb]

God's will to me...........is whatever you,your neighbor, myself or anyone else percieves it as. I nor anyone else could tell you that.



the problem with religion is that it provides formulaic answers and discourages independent thought--think about it--why is your religion right? because you were born into it?

lets see......the same as with politics,love etc????? I was born into an atheist family so that there screws your whole mindset......... I was sent to church every Sunday and Wednesday for 13 yrs as a child and didn't learn a damn thing . It was not until I became an adult and held my first born in my hands that I then in turn started believing. So no .... noone forced me into believing. I wasn't born into it.

[Jallexon2]

Hmm... My belife: Religion in short: man made rules and customs created outside the confines of the bible. Used to subdue and control others. (No offense to Catholics) But look at how messed up things have become within that sphere of Christianty. Some of the most influental people in Christianty have been women look at Joyice Myers ministry.

Read: Mike Behee: Darwin's Black Box
ST. Thomas Aquinas
Vist: www.gmaa.org

[YWD67]

Sadist:
n : someone who obtains pleasure from inflicting pain or others (why use words you have no idea the meaning of?)

I voted yes, and I think that there probably should of been a 3rd choice ...that being "Creator"
If there were no God, how are we here now?
Evil is not the makings of God ....evil derives from human actions that go against the will of God...and from the powers that the Devil has over all of us.
For anyone to say that you don't believe ...I fear for you on the fateful day that you pass....it will be a very lonely and upseting day for yourself.


I assume this theological statement and ideal is inspired by the bible(King James version I believe)? A document written and revised over several thousand years by imperfect mankind. If the King James version is being used for your bases of belief and ideals, then not only is possible that it is imperfect, it is also incomplete. There are 4 books from the orginal greek text left out of the King James version. They were deemed not neccesary by the appointed scholars given the job of translating it to old English. They were deemed not applicable for their time. So your bases of belief and ideals in god are based on an incomplete document translated and written by imperfect men who felt that parts of the bible did not apply to their modern times. How much more against god's will is that? Believing in the so called written word of god translated by imperfect men who played politics and left several books out of the original version because they did not seem to apply their current life styles. I think that it is much worse to believe in a false document written by man, then to not believe in god at all.

[baghdad_steve15]

If there were no God, how are we here now?


A long long time ago, when the earth was nothing more than a huge ball of magma there was a chemical reaction that created tiny simple life beings. Throughout the years those life beings evolved into more complex forms of life... and so on... its called evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution).

[Ken17625]

Religion has too many odd rules.

They' certainly don't seem like the rules of a power beyond our comprehension; they seem like the rules of some retard(s), sitting in a mud hut, in the Middle East.

Proving the existence or disproving the existence of a higher power is not possible with my current thought processes (or, at the very least, I don't perceive it yet).

Religion however, was created by living human beings.

All sayings, decrees, etc, I think, are man made.

It's not that I do not think it's possible for a being of higher power to exist, it's just that I have trouble believing in absolution sometimes. This is mainly due to the fact that I know very little about my so called existence (or basicly everything).

Not enough information, inconclusive.

[Atheist Icon]

And I'm Out!

[cheapprick]

I voted no
And I'm Out!

Good plan. I dislike these threads for 2 reasons.

1) I think not believing is as valid for some people as believing.
2) My 'extreme' peers tend to make the rest of us look bad.

Bobhhs(sp.) put it pretty well.

[shawners]

ANyone who doesnt believe in God is using Gods freewill not to believe.. and that they can continue to believe that they came from apes.. And everyone in society just showed up here.. If everyone came from apes.. Why are all chinese people brown, why are all africans black, each having their own culture, language.. looks..Even says the land was all attached once, wouldnt we be from the same land and of each other?? I guess also marriage shouldnt mean much to a non beliver, since hes doing a ritual that was in the bible.. Science hasnt told us how people became so different.. In all things of life, their is a creator. We create babys.. flowers grow and create seeds that spread.. so in all life their is something other that creates things.. Its pretty stupid to blame things on God, when its our own selfish, heartless behavior that is killing people... if we evolved millions of years ago, wouldnt TV's.. and computers been developed by the dawn of 1000 a.d?? Why in the last 100 years we made so much technical milestone.. why wait to create, when we been here for long long time.. Doesnt make sence does it?

[N[E]rD]

i disagree here--imagine that god rolls a ball down a hill--he has invented the laws of physics, and the ball continues down the hill without his need to push it, as other forces, momentum, gravity, etc. have taken over

now imagine he has created people, and given them tools to survive and free will--do you think he needs to stand behind and push?


Why would a god create a world full of suffering, war, ignorance and famine. Why would he bless a couple of million Westerners and leave billions in Africa and the East starving to death? Why would injustices take place every minute of the day?

The world today is a sickening place and any just god would not allow it to be so. Why would anyone 'create' human life, just to sit there and see so many of them suffer?

Unless God's some kind of masochist...

I am going to use notbob's quote to prove world of suffering, war, ignorance and famine were not created by God, free will WAS CREATED though. In the begining God created Adam (later Eve), and He (God) did not give us free will (the fruit of the tree of knowledge was free will *BTW was not an apple the fruit was always refered to as fruit, somewhere along the way it became an apple.)

Once we ate of that tree we started the ball rolling and because of free will we now have suffering, war, ignorance and famine. God's "gravity" being free will, continues the ball rolling indefinately. It is only through realizing our humanity (sin) that we will ever triumph over these things.

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

Lord of the dense. who is dallas? me?

See below.


ANyone who doesnt believe in God is using Gods freewill not to believe.. and that they can continue to believe that they came from apes.. And everyone in society just showed up here.. If everyone came from apes.. Why are all chinese people brown, why are all africans black, each having their own culture, language.. looks..Even says the land was all attached once, wouldnt we be from the same land and of each other?? I guess also marriage shouldnt mean much to a non beliver, since hes doing a ritual that was in the bible.. Science hasnt told us how people became so different.. In all things of life, their is a creator. We create babys.. flowers grow and create seeds that spread.. so in all life their is something other that creates things.. Its pretty stupid to blame things on God, when its our own selfish, heartless behavior that is killing people... if we evolved millions of years ago, wouldnt TV's.. and computers been developed by the dawn of 1000 a.d?? Why in the last 100 years we made so much technical milestone.. why wait to create, when we been here for long long time.. Doesnt make sence does it?

Because evolution takes a long frickin' time, and therefore, it does make sense.

Different colors = different climes. Go spend a year in a cave without sunlight and see what color you turn.

Different cultures = different genes. Ever play the telephone game? Sure, it may be the same message after a few dozen..but after a few hundred?..a few thousand?

Marriage can mean as much to a non-believer as to a believer. It's about commitment and devotion. You do not need a deity to bestow these traits into one's "soul" to have a fruitful marriage. Children born of a non-religious parents are not prone to go on killing sprees or light your neighbor's cat on fire.

You can find more here (http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=19086&page=5&pp=15) on this issue.

[YWD67]

ANyone who doesnt believe in God is using Gods freewill not to believe.. and that they can continue to believe that they came from apes.. And everyone in society just showed up here.. If everyone came from apes.. Why are all chinese people brown, why are all africans black, each having their own culture, language.. looks..Even says the land was all attached once, wouldnt we be from the same land and of each other?? I guess also marriage shouldnt mean much to a non beliver, since hes doing a ritual that was in the bible.. Science hasnt told us how people became so different.. In all things of life, their is a creator. We create babys.. flowers grow and create seeds that spread.. so in all life their is something other that creates things.. Its pretty stupid to blame things on God, when its our own selfish, heartless behavior that is killing people... if we evolved millions of years ago, wouldnt TV's.. and computers been developed by the dawn of 1000 a.d?? Why in the last 100 years we made so much technical milestone.. why wait to create, when we been here for long long time.. Doesnt make sence does it?


" We create babys.. flowers grow and create seeds that spread.. so in all life their is something other that creates things.."

Well then to continue that form of logic then there must be something that created the creator, and a creator for the creator of the creator etc..............infinity. As for the variation of human life on this planet, enviorment, geographical bounderys and barriers. Isolation of races and culture do to the afformentioned items have played in the diverse cultures of people. Climate effects physical traits of people. Eons of exporsure to intense sun and heat in tropical and desert areas gave rise to the evololution of darker and darker skin pigments to block out excessive uv radiation that damaged those of light skin.

..".If we evolved millions of years ago, wouldnt TV's.. and computers been developed by the dawn of 1000 a.d?? Why in the last 100 years we made so much technical milestone".(Quote)

The answer to that one is going to really make some angery. The reason for such a boom in the advance of tech in the last 100yrs, that is the time that science as a whole finlay stopped using the bible to rationalize many formes of science,(biology, geology,astronomey,etc). Up to that time religion held considerable sway over science. Case in point, Many scientist were marked as heritid and non-believers and were threatend with excommunication and imprisonment unless they recant the idea that the earth rotated around the sun. Religious leaders of that time (around the 16th and 17th centuries held that god had placed the earth at the center of the universe not the sun. Any who believed other wise were teaching the laws of satan. There were actualy people appointed by the church who's only job was to make sure that any teachings to the public did not have any ideas or theroies that might be in conflict with the bible. Math, Astronemy, and geology were some of the most targeted forms of science handcuffed by religion in just what could be taught or labled as scientic fact. Once science through off the yoke of religious censorship and persicution, it rapidly advance. That is why man went form KittyHawk and then to the moon in one century. However it would appear that we have not learned by our mistakes so we must relive them. IN the last 20 yrs there has been strong effort to turn back the advances of scientific therories and facts. Evolution, being the strongest. Astronomey, is being attacked because the idea of the big bang goes against the 6 day creation theory of the bible.

Lastly there has been more heartless acts of violence, murder,toruter and war in the name of someone's god then any other cause the last 5000yrs.

[Ken17625]

Marriage can mean as much to a non-believer as to a believer. It's about commitment and devotion. You do not need a deity to bestow these traits into one's "soul" to have a fruitful marriage. Children born of a non-religious parents are not prone to go on killing sprees or light your neighbor's cat on fire.


I think this very simple to understand point, does indeed undermine the whole gay marriage ban call.

I mean, aren't there many forms of "marriage", spanned across many different religions and backgrounds?

And, couldn't I marry if I wanted too, even though it would seem i've done worse than a homosexual, by not buying into Christianity or any other religion ALLTOGETHER?

I still can. Why is that? Hmm? Remember, i've done WORSE (at least, it would make more sense that my actions are WORSE).


In closing, leave other people alone.

They're not harming you in any way, they're trying to live "their own" lives, and people are trying to stop them.

[lil_amb]

The bible was written by man..........not me nor you. I've not read it, for that reason and I have never even seen a "King James Version" ThankYou.

[Gregory_JJ]

I don't think "God" exists in the form that most western religions portray him/her/whatever as or for that matter any religion does. I do however believe in that if such a being did exist, any and all attempts to put into a human context have and will be always be flawed because it would be to diffcult to truely describe such a being.

[Ken17625]

The bible was written by man..........not me nor you.

That is correct.

Ummm, considering noone here claimed they have written the bible, what is the point of that statement (if you meant one, you're not required to have one)? It didn't seem to be directed at anyone in particular.

Just curious.

[Gregory_JJ]

I think this very simple to understand point, does indeed undermine the whole gay marriage ban call.

I mean, aren't there many forms of "marriage", spanned across many different religions and backgrounds?

And, couldn't I marry if I wanted too, even though it would seem i've done worse than a homosexual, by not buying into Christianity or any other religion ALLTOGETHER?

I still can. Why is that? Hmm? Remember, i've done WORSE (at least, it would make more sense that my actions are WORSE).


In closing, leave other people alone.

They're not harming you in any way, they're trying to live "their own" lives, and people are trying to stop them.

Just thought I would pass on a interesting piece of info to you. Among the first Marriages ever perfrom by the Christian regilion were in fact SAME SEX Marriages.
Funny how things change of the years.

[stewiegriffin]

rD']Once we ate of that tree we started the ball rolling and because of free will we now have suffering, war, ignorance and famine. God's "gravity" being free will, continues the ball rolling indefinately. It is only through realizing our humanity (sin) that we will ever triumph over these things.

So there is a god, but its a god who is punishing hunders of millions of people daily because of the actions of 2 people thousands of years ago? Thats much better then.
And why doesn't he, like the first two times when the world was an 'evil' place like it is now, absolve of us sin/start again. The first time he flooded the earth right and we were pure again? The second time, he gave up his own son? Again we were pure. Why now would he just leave it when he has quite a history of intervention?

Ok, so the Bible was not written by god, but it is the entire basis of christian faith and you cannot pick and chose the bits which make sense and don't make sense to support your arguemnt.

[Mels_Smileys45]

the question would be, who created god? Which came first, the chicken or the egg? "God is a concept by which we measure our pain."-John Lennon

[balaji singh bondili]

s, i belive that god exists.
dont think in negative way.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Out of all the gods, I just wonder which one is the creator. Gods have been invented and have died and been re-invented for all times. Books have been re-written and changed and forgotten. Everyone wants to be a part of something more than what we are and we all want a destination at the end of the tunnel.Believing blindly with out question is the way of the fool and the small minded. The Earth is flat and the sun revolves around us dont ya know. How can there be anything but us in this great big universe? This all stems from man wanting, needing to believe he is so imporntant, that the cosmos was created for him alone. Most religions have alot of good beliefs but are perverted and twisted by governments to meet the needs of the changing times. To me it seems so obvious that its all made up its hard to think people still believe such.

[lil_amb]

That is correct.

Ummm, considering noone here claimed they have written the bible, what is the point of that statement (if you meant one, you're not required to have one)? It didn't seem to be directed at anyone in particular.

Just curious.


My point is that I have no use to read something written by man. It's an obvious conclusion that Jesus himself did not write the "bible" as we the popoulation know it today.

It's like standing in a line of ppl and whispering in their ear and then so on and so forth...by the time it reaches the last person(man who wrote the bible) the storry is pretty well fucked up.

Noone will change my mind, nor will I anyone elses. All I have to say is yes I do believe.

[tamarisk]

the catholic church never confirmed nor denied that we are alone in the universe.

It is the role of science to explain this not the church

[YWD67]

My point is that I have no use to read something written by man. It's an obvious conclusion that Jesus himself did not write the "bible" as we the popoulation know it today.

It's like standing in a line of ppl and whispering in their ear and then so on and so forth...by the time it reaches the last person(man who wrote the bible) the storry is pretty well fucked up.

Noone will change my mind, nor will I anyone elses. I have no use to read something written by man. It's an obvious conclusion that Jesus himself did not write the "bible" as we the popoulation know it today.
.

With all of the above and past post by you, what do you use as your core bases of belief in a christian god. You state that the devil(you usea capital "D" in a previous post denoting a Chistian title, check Websters)is the root of mans evil. If you have not read a bible as stated previously; and you have absolutely no faith in word of mouth; where have you drawn your knowledge of Jesus, god, and the devil. Better yet what do you base your entire belief in god on other then you are here. Your Knowledge, information and belief in Jesus, god and the devil did not just pop in to your head. You had to get it from someone initialy

Now for you last post: " I have no use to read something written by man. It's an obvious conclusion that Jesus himself did not write the "bible" as we the popoulation know it today."

What makes it obvious that Jesus did not write the bible of today if you never read it?

Come on if you want to give some creedence to your statements of the existance of god you will have to do more then make a blanket statement. If all you have to say is "Yes I do believe" then please do so. It makes it easier and quicker to read, all thou some what ambiguious.

[nasrules]

Er...well...

There's never going to be a definite answer to this. Whether or not science can 'prove' the non-existence (or existence) of a form of supreme being, there will always be people who believe in God and those who don't.

Personally, I don't - I turn to science for the answers. But I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right. With the right evidence, I might be persuaded. However, that evidence hasn't been shown to me yet.

[RACKnRAIL]

My two cents worth:

Why would god cause all this suffering and war? Why does god let it happen right in front of our eyes? The short answer is, god doesn't let any of this happen...we do! It all about the gift of choice. We choose; action and reaction. Does that mean god doesn't exist? I don't have that answer, but the belief in god has never been more than a faith. In other words, there is no solid proof. Does prayer work? There is scientific evidence to support that prayer does work. But why? It doesn't seem to matter which god you worship in prayer, as long as enough people congregate in prayer, it just may work. Do I believe? Yes! Do I go to church? No! Do I follow a particular faith? No! Am I going to hell? If I am, I will be shaking hands with a lot of other people I know, that's for sure!

[smokingbevel]

Everyone, it doesn't matter who you are or how old you are. But everyone needs someone to believe in, and rely on.

When you were a kid it was your parents, when you're a teenager it's your friends, and so on and so forth. But what happens when you realize that mankind has failed you? That you can't rely on anyone? That no one will be able to be there 100% of the time to support you? You have to believe in something, some people chose to ignore when mankind fails, other people acknowledge that and realize that no matter who many times man does fail there will always be someone their that doesn't fail. Also, you need something to believe in. You need a shoulder to lean on when the road is hard.While clearly, some build a dependancy, I haven't experienced nor do I require such things. I don't feel the psychological or emotional need to seek omniscient shoulders to lean on.
Mankind cannot fail me. I have faith that members of mankind will, more often than not, act in favor of self-preservation or preservation of individual code (dna). Greedy or selfish behavior, should not be surpising, but expected, as such is merely a natural extension of survival and propagation of self.

I do find it rather hard to believe that a powerful and truly compassionate being would condemn other beings to eternal suffering (Hell).

[YWD67]

Er...well...

There's never going to be a definite answer to this. Whether or not science can 'prove' the non-existence (or existence) of a form of supreme being, there will always be people who believe in God and those who don't.

Personally, I don't - I turn to science for the answers. But I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right. With the right evidence, I might be persuaded. However, that evidence hasn't been shown to me yet.

11 yrs of religious school raised more questions then answers. Ambiguious statements, contradictions in theologly ideals. One of the major factors of looking to science for alot of the answers for me is that I dont know of any wars started, or people tortured in the name of their scientifc belief. The other one was the constant statement given when ever one the teachers could not give an answer about why certain things are to be taken as fact with out proof: "Who are you to question God?"

[notbob]

11 yrs of religious school raised more questions then answers. Ambiguious statements, contradictions in theologly ideals. One of the major factors of looking to science for alot of the answers for me is that I dont know of any wars started, or people tortured in the name of their scientifc belief. The other one was the constant statement given when ever one the teachers could not give an answer about why certain things are to be taken as fact with out proof: "Who are you to question God?"

12 for me

in fourth grade, they told me about "papal infallability", and i was done

they always say how man is imperfect, original sin touches us all, and then they say that some bureaucrat is infallible because he kissed a lot of cardinals' asses to get a big hat and a glass house to ride around in?

what about the pope(s) that supported mussolini and hitler? they were "infallible" too, so were the ones that persecuted people for having non-aristotelian ideas about the sun and planets--not to mention the current one that discourages birth control for whatever reason (not his problem, right? he and all of his friends are celibate and live in gilded palaces)

[WE_DELIVER]

For me, if I don't see proof of something, I tend not to believe it.
I may have faith in something for a short time, but after evidence fails to surface, so does belief.
I believe in science because it has gotten us more technology in exponentially increasing numbers. Unfortunately, in my eyes, science does not make room for God.
Looking to hear what the rest of you have to say....

[Brycen257]

After 2000 plus years, they still can't resolve this one. I suspect that a person's belief (or non-belief) in God is shaped based on (1) Their upbringing and training in some form of religion and (2) Their own personal experiences . My own personal experiences with the Christian Faith have tended not to be overly positive and my attempts at belief or faith have proved unfounded and unrewarding. I have serious doubts about (1) whether God does exist and (2) if he does exist, I have serious doubts that he cares in the least about anything that goes on in anyone's life.

In any event, its ultimately a personal decision. :upside

[eivioolla]

What I've been wondering is that how come everyone seems so certain that man has "free will" to begin with? Perhaps free will is only an illusion, just like god. :)

[Whistler]

the bible was not written by jesus it was inspired by god and written by many people. the account of jesus was written by several people (mathew mark luke and john) all writing the same things from a different view point.

Im a protestant i dont believe pope(s) are unfallable infact the bible says nothing about popes. the catholics claim peter was the first pope but this is not found anywhere in the bible.

my beef with catholasism is that it puts an emphasis on spirituality and making everything into a feel good experience for the masses as opposed to 'real interpretation' of the bible. ie forgive me father for i have sinned -- 30 hail maries and your good to go. this type of power is not given to priests in the bible.
(dont get me wrong im leaving 'interpretaion' vague)

as for wiping the slate clean from the flood and then with jesus... after wiping the earth out with a flood things weren't perfect... we were just left with 8 normal people great guy noah being one of them. then jesus wiping the slate clean, thats still going on as best as it was back then, you just have to believe, but ill leave that for you to go watch the passion.

as for evolution and creation, with respect to diffrent races, both teach the same thing. creation says 2 ppl started all the 'races' by that i mean diffrences in skin pigment color and any other facial diffrences; but so does evolution although its much more vague and noone really know how evolutions supposed to work its clear that 2 humans evolved and started the human race.

imho

this post is not to persuade you because your mind is probably made up but if you want to learn go read some theology books and some evolution books. feel free to comment.

[mcovey]

Yes. Better believe so than not. There is no devil to athiesm.

[YWD67]

the bible was not written by jesus it was inspired by god and written by many people. the account of jesus was written by several people (mathew mark luke and john) all writing the same things from a different view point.

Im a protestant i dont believe pope(s) are unfallable infact the bible says nothing about popes. the catholics claim peter was the first pope but this is not found anywhere in the bible.

my beef with catholasism is that it puts an emphasis on spirituality and making everything into a feel good experience for the masses as opposed to 'real interpretation' of the bible. ie forgive me father for i have sinned -- 30 hail maries and your good to go. this type of power is not given to priests in the bible.
(dont get me wrong im leaving 'interpretaion' vague)

as for wiping the slate clean from the flood and then with jesus... after wiping the earth out with a flood things weren't perfect... we were just left with 8 normal people great guy noah being one of them. then jesus wiping the slate clean, thats still going on as best as it was back then, you just have to believe, but ill leave that for you to go watch the passion.

as for evolution and creation, with respect to diffrent races, both teach the same thing. creation says 2 ppl started all the 'races' by that i mean diffrences in skin pigment color and any other facial diffrences; but so does evolution although its much more vague and noone really know how evolutions supposed to work its clear that 2 humans evolved and started the human race.

imho

this post is not to persuade you because your mind is probably made up but if you want to learn go read some theology books and some evolution books. feel free to comment.


Yeah that is why a lot of us mackerel snappers become skeptical beause of ceremony and dogma.

However you make a statement that should draw into question your own belief.

"my beef with catholasism is that it puts an emphasis on spirituality and making everything into a feel good experience for the masses as opposed to 'real interpretation' of the bible. ie forgive me father for i have sinned -- 30 hail maries and your good to go. this type of power is not given to priests in the bible". QUOTE

Being a protestant it is a fair guess that you read the King James version of the Bible.
That form of the bible(There is over 100 versions used by the major christian churchs toady)was interpeted by about a dozen of the highest ranking scholars during the rein of KIng James. He had them interpt the original Greek/latin text(the catholic version)so anyone could read the bible. However like many people through out history there were some who believed that there were some parts of the bible that did not feel applied to their time. So they decided to omitt 5 books form the original text. In other words they played politics and made an abridged version of the bible that fit their time and attitudes. As long as man is in the chain of custody of God's words, they will never be the true words. The non-chatholic branches of the chirstian religion have been in existance for less then a millenium. This includes baptist, Lutherans, etc. All of these have there roots to a former catholic monk named Martin Luther. He found that the catholic church had become corupt and more focused on money and government, which it had. He and others broke away from mother church and followed what they beleived to be the true path of god. Martin Luther was responsible for many reforms in the catholic church that brought its original intent back in place.

[Stownplayer]

I don't think this is an easy yes or no question. But is hard to imagine a god who allows so much suffering. That is good enough reason to doubt him or her. Anyways, if there is a god, they can't be mad cause we were created in his image with his likeness right? He gave us body's, minds and souls , so if i choose to not believe then god would but full of shit to be angry at me based on the shitty proof he has left me to draw my conclusion off of.

[downloadalot]

Yes. Better believe so than not. There is no devil to athiesm.

I think what you mean is being atheist makes you a amoral (without moral, wich is different than immoral - againts the moral). This is not true. You dont need to beleive in evil to bebeive that there is a right and a wrong, that there are things that you can do and things you cant do (even if you have the power to).

A person with a naturalist view of nature can beleive in very high moral principle (being atheist doesnt mean you dont beleive in anything... I find hilarious the statement "hey dude you gotta beleive in somethin' so you should beleive in god (complete nonsense)). Both the religious and the non-religious can beleive in values and moral principle. The difference is that for the religious, these will be founded on mystical-magical-spiritual ground, and that the non-religious will have a conception of life free of magic ou supra-natural phenomenom. His moral can then be based on something else, for exemple natural need to preserv the human species (would be then naturally determined), or can be based on purely conceptual, rational grounds. If you ask a religious "why should I do that?" I will tell you because its god will and you have to follow it, that the truth as been written over 2000 years ago, that the truth is not a matter of dicussion, that it is a matter of belief. On the same subjet, a non-religious will give you reasons why he beleives what he beleives in. The moral thruth will be then rather be a matter of judgment, of personnal justification and understanding. It his open to dialogue and change whereas a religious justification is not and considered sacred.

[aqlo]

some parts of the bible that did not feel applied to their time. So they decided to omitt 5 books form the original text

Dude you are talking about the apocrypha, and not carrying your point very well. The "Old Testament" was originally written in Hebrew, and the orthodox Hebrew text has been copied fairly faithfully from about the time of the scribe Ezra. (By fairly faithfully I mean they had all sorts of rules designed to make sure they were making good copies, like counts of the words, counts of the letters, notes as to what the middle word or letter should be, or what the 7th word or letter should be, and so on; essentially the same principles we use for hashes and crc checks nowadays.) But very few people spoke Hebrew and so the text was translated into Greek. The "Torah" (Books of Moses) were translated fairly literally and kept correct on the basis of the Targum (Aramaic rendering) of Aquila (Onkelosh) and the "Nephibim" (Books of the Prophets) were also consistently checked against a similar Targum (of Theodotian or Jonathan) to produce similar clean copying. The "Ketubim" however, consisting of the sacred non-prophetic writings such as the Psalms, Chronicles and Esther, were not handled as well.

Specifically the original translator of the Books of Ezra, Esther, Daniel, and Lamentations did not actually have his text in front of him at all! That's right, he wasn't translating at all, he was just writing! He retold stories from memory along with other folklore and some speeches that were appropriate to his time rather than that of the writers. As a result these books were retranslated from the original Hebrew and information given more fully and accurately there replaced parallel passages in his translations. However out of respect for tradition those additional stories and statements from the botched original-less "translation" were retained in the Greek edition with scribal markings to show that they were not in the original, along with a few inter-testamental books such as two different versions of the story of the Maccabees (Jewish rebels who kicked ass fighting pagan Greeks.)

These various additions were separated out by Jerome, who translated the Latin "Vulgate" used by the Catholic church with a preference for the Hebrew readings. As a result the extraneous material from Jeremiah's Lamentations is now known as the Book of Baruch and the Letter of Jeremiah, that from Daniel became the Book of Susanna, The Prayer of Azarias, the Song of the Three Holy Children, and Bel and the Dragon, a mass of obviously forged speeches and documents from Esther became 8 extra chapters at the end, and so on. There is also an extra book attributed to Solomon called Wisdom but composed in Greek, a collection of additonal proverbs beyond that from one of the Greek translators named Sirach, and some odd stories set in the exile time called Tobit and Judith.

There are in fact 7 whole extra books altogether in the Catholic canon for the Old Testament than in the Protestant or Jewish version from the Hebrew, plus another 8 or 9 bits like this stuff from Daniel and Esther (depending how you count). None of this material was written in Hebrew by prophets, and several of the books like 1st and 2nd Maccabees and Sirach actually make note of the fact that they were written after prophecy had ceased! Even so, they were included as an appendix in most of the early translations of the Bible, including the so-called "King James Version" of 1611. But they don't seem to have the staying power of the original Hebrew books, and if you can find anything in them that helps at all with religion than you must be smarter than the vast majority of scholars, both Protestant and Catholic.

Another note about the "King James Version", it was simply a "perfect" (fully critiqued) edition of the translation by William Tyndale, with reference to the original texts at points of controversy, not some magic new anti-catholic translation. The so-called "Rheims-Douay" (Challoner) version which was used from the same time period by the Catholic church is just a different edition of the same translation, and its many revisions all tended to approximate the "perfect" text of the 1611 version more and more closely.

So encouraging people to investigate these fruitless controversies in hopes of improving themselves is probably a bad idea, they lead to nothing good and do tend to cause a lot of murders over the years over what are truly minor and ridiculous points of disagreement.

[lil_amb]

I believe....I believe....I believe.............now will that f@#$ing help you understand the fact?


As I had said before I was sebt to services for 12-13 yrs....think about it.
I do not need to prove my thoughts or bases to you . If you disagree with my point of view ....why not just bypass it? Is this all you have to do all day is say that your not a believer and then shoot a believer down? I wasn't preaching to you so don't preach at me.


Now I am done. Don't ask again. Thanks Amber



(keep in mind that this is my belief)

[downloadalot]

I believe....I believe....I believe.............now will that f@#$ing help you understand the fact?


As I had said before I was sebt to services for 12-13 yrs....think about it.
I do not need to prove my thoughts or bases to you . If you disagree with my point of view ....why not just bypass it? Is this all you have to do all day is say that your not a believer and then shoot a believer down? I wasn't preaching to you so don't preach at me.


Now I am done. Don't ask again. Thanks Amber



(keep in mind that this is my belief)


Hey who you takin to lilamb?

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

She was talking to YWD67. Please attempt to follow (http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=229201&postcount=75) the thread.

[a97441]

You think mankind was created by God? you think mankind was created by the hand of a just and divine being? Let's examine the evidence... Can you think of another species that traps animals for pets? can you think of another species that kills for no apparent reason (I can my cat but not on the scale we do), can you think of a species that defacates in it's own backyard? then tries to eat off the same land? Rats. We are rats with tool skills. See us crawling over each other pushing the weak ones into the mud trying to reach the top. It's sick, there's nothing divine, man was not created of God. If anything, Man was created by his enemy to foul the garden of creation.

Of course, he got up rather late, as the garden of creation was already several billion years old, but hey, maybe he was out on the Razz.

[YWD67]

I believe....I believe....I believe.............now will that f@#$ing help you understand the fact?


As I had said before I was sebt to services for 12-13 yrs....think about it.
I do not need to prove my thoughts or bases to you . If you disagree with my point of view ....why not just bypass it? Is this all you have to do all day is say that your not a believer and then shoot a believer down? I wasn't preaching to you so don't preach at me.


Now I am done. Don't ask again. Thanks Amber



(keep in mind that this is my belief)

Sorry maybe I missed a post but I dont recall reading one were you stated "was sebt to services for 12-13 yrs". I guess you mean church service, again sorry if I am wrong.
I have never once said that i disagree with your view I just asked how you arrived at it. I have never said that I am not a believer, I have question many so called god's will statements by some. The questioning of someones beliefs, does not mean that they are not a believer themselves. Most of all I have never shot down anyone who has professed a belief in a god, faith,etc...... I have never flamed you, disrespected, or ridiculed you, I have only asked pointed questions about what proof or the sources you have in order to make the statements of fact you have made. Just that there is no misunderstanding in my posting I will try and make clear its meaning. I am not, shooting you down, making light of your beliefs or flaming you. I am sorry but I think that maybe you have read a little more into my questions then was realy there.

[donttrustmidgets]

This is one of those things where no one is probally ever gonna change the other sides minds. I am impressed with how mature everyone has been with it however. Pretty much no flaming at all.

[IshareManyFilez]

You think mankind was created by God? you think mankind was created by the hand of a just and divine being? Let's examine the evidence... Can you think of another species that traps animals for pets? can you think of another species that kills for no apparent reason (I can my cat but not on the scale we do), can you think of a species that defacates in it's own backyard? then tries to eat off the same land? Rats. We are rats with tool skills. See us crawling over each other pushing the weak ones into the mud trying to reach the top. It's sick, there's nothing divine, man was not created of God. If anything, Man was created by his enemy to foul the garden of creation.

Of course, he got up rather late, as the garden of creation was already several billion years old, but hey, maybe he was out on the Razz.

This analogy of rats that you speak of is faulty. There is no black or white just shades of grey. Mankind can be whatever it wants to be. Generalizing ALL of mankind into one general group of people and quoting them as evil is assanine. Yes we are humans and make mistakes but not to the degree you speak of. I agree that god didn't create the earth. I also agree that everything religion states can be proved by modern science and math. But do I believe in a god, yes I do. How can you make a connection between everyone being evil and rats to a topic of do you believe in god?

[URICHO_Corp.]

gods dietys or lords and a bunch crap to enslave humanity the roman used it in europe with christianity, then the spanish did it to the native americans. Open your head and see that if there was a god man had nothing worry about. Just think about how many mad men have created fear. If people remain ignorant that fear its what you call religion.

[babytay4502]

To the believer, no evidence is needed. To the non-believer, no evidence is efficient.

[lil_amb]

thats maybe the best damn thing I've heard in here.

[babytay4502]

The bible was written by man..........not me nor you. I've not read it, for that reason and I have never even seen a "King James Version" ThankYou.


If you have ever read the bible, you would know that there are no grapical errors in it. How can it be that non-educated men could sit down and write something without any mistakes? It was with the help of God that man did it. If you are going to read the bible, ONLY read the KING JAMES VERSION. Other versions take out verses and change the whole meaning to them. Yes, KJV!!!

[keyshawn]

Such a question cannot be expressed in such few words....
A theology teacher wrote this document, i think you can find a lot of truth in here -
http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/sammon/facmenu/Lecturenotes/Class Notes Unit I - Sammon.doc

[notbob]

If you have ever read the bible, you would know that there are no grapical errors in it. How can it be that non-educated men could sit down and write something without any mistakes? It was with the help of God that man did it. If you are going to read the bible, ONLY read the KING JAMES VERSION. Other versions take out verses and change the whole meaning to them. Yes, KJV!!!

the king james version was written by educated men--guys like shakespeare

they took a bunch of rough translations and rephrased and edited them into some of the best prose work ever created in the english language

[TheBlackSnow]

Of course God exists. GOD is great!

[TheBlackSnow]

And Jesus is a part of God.

[Dark Messenger]

here's a question for you:

is god white or black?

[wingnut2600]

God is purple... I know, I have seen him/her/it. BTW... I see that Godness is beating out Godless world right now... so this must prove there is a God.

If God didn't exist, why do we capitalize His name (and "His" when referring to Him?).

I have been reading up on the Terror Management Theory, and I realize that there is no point in arguing with those that believe in a God, since their belief becomes stronger in the face of counter-evidence. Existential dread is a difficult thing to live with... I could see the allure of deluding oneself into the belief that the world is just, with a creator and an afterlife, which will allow you to continue to exist even after death. Unfortunately, I have a scientific mind and am unable to hold beliefs such as these.

Does God exist? Who really cares? I would love a world in which a person could believe whatever they wanted and discuss it openly with others (only if the other so desired). Unfortunately, most religious members have a desire to proselytize in order to reaffirm their beliefs system.

[cheapprick]

Aye, as do most non-religious attempt to sway people to their lack of belief system.

Just to throw it out there, I'm happy with the believers in this thread. It's not often there are twice as many rants suggesting it's foolish to believe than not. It makes one wonder why the non-believers feel they have to justify their beliefs. ;) A person's beliefs are their own.

[aqlo]

If you have ever read the bible, you would know that there are no grapical errors in it. How can it be that non-educated men could sit down and write something without any mistakes? It was with the help of God that man did it. If you are going to read the bible, ONLY read the KING JAMES VERSION. Other versions take out verses and change the whole meaning to them. Yes, KJV!!!

You're mistaken, there were 100s of simple normal human errors in the early editions of the 1611 version. Most of these were cleaned up by the printers in subsequent editions but some required help from the translators in 1629 and 1638, and further errors mostly regarding printing changes and standardization were carried on until 1769. The "perfect" edition of 1769, with paragraphing by Scrivener in 1887, is what is normally sold as the "King James Version" in modern printing. While it is remarkably low on errors, several readings have been retained due to respect for tradition. For example at Matthew 23:24 the 1611 translators wrote "strain out a gnat", the printers printed "strain ot a gnat", and the correctors left it as "strain at a gnat" because that had become the preferred usage in churches, it apparently scans a little better but makes less sense and is ~not~ a good translation at all.

So rather than magically appearing in 1611 the "perfect" version took almost a hundred years of critiquing and debate to be improved to the point where it was acceptable to everyone and another 150 years to arrive at a standardized printing. Each step in the improvement process was made by men, and none of them were the least bit ignorant, most of them knew English, Greek, Hebrew, and Latin as a matter of course plus several other languages as their individual specialties. If that's a miraculous proof of something or other than why aren't there crappy ignorant fundamentalist hateful cults of Shakespeare and Homer and Malory? They all exist in "perfect" (fully critiqued) editions from the same time period just like the Bible.

Admittedly this is a much better translation by a much more impressive array of scholars than modern "easy-reading" versions, and I recommend it over any other. But making an idol out of it is just as bad as any other goD made out of wood or stone.

[Crazy Horse]

When this kind of thread comes up (and it comes up often) I'm reminded of this little story:

God was sitting in heaven one day when a scientist said to Him, "God, we
don't need you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create
life out of nothing - in other words, we can now do what you did in the
beginning."

"Oh, is that so? Tell Me..." replies God.

"Well," says the scientist, "we can take dirt and form it into the
likeness of you and breathe life into it, thus creating man."

"Well, that's very interesting...show Me." So the scientist bends down to
the earth and starts to mold the soil into the shape of a man.

"Wait, no, no, no..." interrupts God, "Get your own dirt."



btw... I do believe in a power greater than myself. I choose to call this creator "Great Spirit"

[unicornstastelikechicken]

Thats a great story Crazy Horse, and I really respect your outlook on the situation, and think as a whole everyone has done great in this thread debating the subject in a mature matter.

[Mels_Smileys45]

I think alot of people have the idea of god being a man who watches over us. Theres a flaw in that. where did this man come from? Its more likely we are all a part of god. Everything is a part of god. God is the soil under our feet and the sky over our heads. But it doesnt really matter. Be a good person and do the best you can to get through this hum drum kinda life.

[RACKnRAIL]

btw... I do believe in a power greater than myself. I choose to call this creator "Great Spirit"
I always liked that name. It is neither male or female and it sort of combines all gods into one great thing. I don't think the "Great Spirit" has a color either.

[Crazy Horse]

I always liked that name. It is neither male or female and it sort of combines all gods into one great thing. I don't think the "Great Spirit" has a color either.
Correct on all counts!

[GiR]

Would it be too daring to believe that perhaps 'god' is simply a product of human evolution?

What i ment by that is, humans are unique from other creatures due to our keen awareness of our surroundings. We have been able to adapt ourselves to our environment much more effeciently then any other creature on this planet, plus we are aware of the beauty of things such as art, music, and the natural science of things.

But why would the need for a devine being be nessisary to such creatures that aware of soo much? One reason. Death. Humans are one of the few creatures that are aware of death and its inevitability. One could imagine a time when humans became aware that Death would come no matter how they lived they're life, or how much they could accomplish, and know that it would be all for nothing. And that thought would of created a continous anxiety attack, which could of threatened all of human existence.

But, by evolving the way our brain allowed us to think, we where able to grow a 'god' or spiritual part of our brains. By being able to believe that there may be more to life then simply death, or even life afterwards, the anxiety of death was no long as apparent.

This is just one theory this is grand question, and it might not be the right one, or even the only one. But i do know that this theory makes more sence to me then all of the religious text combined.

If anyone is interested in learning more about this scientific interpretation of 'god' and human spirtuality, check out www.godpart.com

[aqlo]

So when the Boddhidharma had a question about this goD - Dog thing he went to the highest incarnation known to the Hindus in India, the Brahman, and he asked that cow if a beast really does have the buddha-nature, and the answer he got was "Moo".

And after many years and adventures he arrived at the Shaolin monastery in China where they taught the art of "moving meditation" and learned Chinese. And in Chinese the word "Mu" means "No, not that, neither". It means the question is a false choice altogether. And he became enlightened. Neither yes nor no, but beyond that.

Everyone might have noticed this immediately from what DankMessenger said about goD being black or white. Oh, neither, definitely, no problem seeing that. Neither male nor female, neither wood nor stone, neither light nor darkness. If goD was just light how could SHe be the one who created light?

Now the question here is "Does goD exists" :) Now if goD is goD, SHe can't just exist. Oh neither, no not that. For goD to be at all, SHe has to exist and also not exist. That's why both sides arguments work equally well and equally badly.

MOO

[Jallexon2]

Hmm... What I was told is that Christan's are to A. love and B. Make disciples of all nations. But that love is more important. It is never a Christan's job or duty to convert people but to A. Love and B. Be ever ready to answer people's questions about Jesus and God as well as present to the person seeking such information their options. People can not be made to accept information if they are not receptive to receiving the information. People will accept or reject based on their own free will. And granting free will and the right to chose is the greatest sign/gift of love. And to keep loving that person even when they do stuff that breaks your heart is an even greater sign of love. Look at it this way. As kids we do stupid things that broke our parent's hearts but just because they punished us did that mean they stopped loving us? Ideally no. If you truly love someone you are going to sometimes be tough with your love. Hence, hell if you say to Jesus and God I want you out of my life. That is what hell is a place totally separate from God and his son. More offen then not parents punish their kids to protect their kids for themselves because the child or children still has no real grasp of the greater picture. Best way to get someone on your side is to not try and force anything but rather just show them the options and information they request or need let them figure things out for themselves.

[YWD67]

Hmm... What I was told is that Christan's are to A. love and B. Make disciples of all nations. But that love is more important. It is never a Christan's job or duty to convert people but to A. Love and B. Be ever ready to answer people's questions about Jesus and God as well as present to the person seeking such information their options. People can not be made to accept information if they are not receptive to receiving the information. People will accept or reject based on their own free will. And granting free will and the right to chose is the greatest sign/gift of love. And to keep loving that person even when they do stuff that breaks your heart is an even greater sign of love. Look at it this way. As kids we do stupid things that broke our parent's hearts but just because they punished us did that mean they stopped loving us? Ideally no. If you truly love someone you are going to sometimes be tough with your love. Hence, hell if you say to Jesus and God I want you out of my life. That is what hell is a place totally separate from God and his son. More offen then not parents punish their kids to protect their kids for themselves because the child or children still has no real grasp of the greater picture. Best way to get someone on your side is to not try and force anything but rather just show them the options and information they request or need let them figure things out for themselves.

Boy it has been 30yrs since I heard that. Yes you are correct, at least that is the way it was explained to me at St. Vincent dePauls catholic school.
Some how it seems to have got away form the love aspect and picked up a vengful political tone. Every Sunday moring it you usualy her someone going, "We are the army of___________(incert what ever form of christianity you wish) and we must defeat his enemys and those that wish to destroy this nation, first send me $25. Some how that does not have a tone of love.

[ssj4conejo]

Yah, i voted yes. My personal belief is that a god exists. There is even common sense evidence to prove this. For example the good old big bang that most nerdy scientist cling to. How was that created? something must've pushed something to make everything just blow. Something had to make the gas compress, in order for it to blow..... Well theres your answer, theres a prime mover, otherwise nothing would have been created. and if we didnt have a god, what the hell is our purpose here? to live n die?, i believe in the afterlife also, stuff continues like matter which isnt created nor destroyed.

[Jim Morrison]

I Myself believe in god. Each Individual has the freedom to believe what they want. John3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[Rickio]

The problem with man is he tries to understand and conceptualise something above and beyond him. Any ideas a man has are inherently limited and only a faint clue of what ultimate reality is. God is the total of everything and it is impossible for us to fathom that. But we try ...

peace

[YWD67]

The problem with man is he tries to understand and conceptualise something above and beyond him. Any ideas a man has are inherently limited and only a faint clue of what ultimate reality is. God is the total of everything and it is impossible for us to fathom that. But we try ...

peace

Or perhaps the real problem is we try to understand and fathom something that is non-existant. May be it is not a limited view of reality, but rather the view man has of reality is all there is and he is making more out of it then there realy is.
The inability to conceptualise something does not mean that it is beyond us.
2000yrs ago the conception of space travel was beyond human understanding now it is not. Just because at this moment we do not understand all the workings of something does not mean that it is beyond us due to inherent limitations placed on us by god. Rather it is a lack of knowledege and understanding at this time.

[Jallexon2]

YWD67 one could interpret all the negative stuff going on with the Catholic church and churches in general as God punishing them because they deviated from his message about love and salvation. And have become very hypocritical and caught up with the things of this world. Instead of preaching, love and salvation as Jesus taught it. Which takes ruling power away from man. The Church has set up rules and regs that take away from God's power and role in man's affairs. In the end everything is between the person and the creator.

In my Govt of Latin class a dirt poor woman once said "Catholicism is the church of the poor." If that is true why is the church caught up in gold, and silks, fine buildings?

How about less religion and more Jesus? :-D

[YWD67]

YWD67 one could interpret all the negative stuff going on with the Catholic church and churches in general as God punishing them because they deviated from his message about love and salvation. And have become very hypocritical and caught up with the things of this world. Instead of preaching, love and salvation as Jesus taught it. Which takes ruling power away from man. The Church has set up rules and regs that take away from God's power and role in man's affairs. In the end everything is between the person and the creator.

In my Govt of Latin class a dirt poor woman once said "Catholicism is the church of the poor." If that is true why is the church caught up in gold, and silks, fine buildings?

How about less religion and more Jesus? :-D

This is the same thing that that brought around the protestant refermation; politics and monitary gain.
This is not just a problem with the roman catholic church though. The protestant side is now doing the same thing, money and politics. The only thing that they have not done yet is reinvent the inquisition. The key word here is "yet".

[aqlo]

The only thing that they have not done yet is reinvent the inquisition.

The hell they haven't

http://home.wanadoo.nl/ipce/library_two/files/interpr_sat_leg.htm


A charismatic Christian speaker at a camp she attended announced to Erica, "You have been abused as a child, sexually abused." The charismatic leader then received another message from God. "It's by her father and it's been going on for years." (14)When Erica repeatedly told others that she had been sexually abused, the Sheriff's office eventually heard about it and launched an investigation. During this investigation a second daughter came up with stories of her own which supported Erica's accusations. When confronted with these accusations, Paul at first denied them; but it was explained that people frequently repress this kind of memory, and it was pointed out that his daughters would not lie about such matters. Paul found these points persuasive. With the aid of some crude, auto-hypnotic techniques, he was able to "recover" the related memories, which supported his daughter's accusations. However, when Paul Ofshe, one of the authors of Making Monsters, was called in for consultation, he had his suspicions. So Ofshe made up a story, a purely fictional and imaginary account, and related this to Paul as one of the accusations of the daughters. Paul then used his memory retrieval technique to produce the account reproduced above - one that corresponded exactly to the deliberately induced fictional account. The example of Paul is unusual only in that it enables us to observe directly a deliberately induced, false, recovered memory. Investigator induced memories of this kind provide believers with a large proportion of the evidence that is used to persuade people of the existence of Satanic cults.

[YWD67]

I must admitt that I was a bit reluctant in posting some possible neo-inquisition acts by current relgious groups. So instead I tried to hint at the possiblity that such could happen again. Glad someone spoke up.