Bought CD's last Longer?

[origin]

I had a quite interesting conversation with a friend of mine over AIM. The question at hand is do CDDA bought cd's from the store last longer(as in wear and tear) or do burned CD-R/RW's?

What I found was that the bought cd's would get the *hit beat out of them and still play but with the cd-r's after a while(wear and tear of course) would be out of shape and skip or not play at all.

Who outlives who?

l8

[Wolfie]

I found cd-rs do have shorter life-spans but still worth burning. Heck, all cds in my car and house stereo are cd-rs which some are downloaded stuff and others copies of CDs I bought.

This way my original CDs don't go through wear-and-tear as much. As for downloaded mp3's they are all backed up on other CD-Rs and I burn new cd for use when the cds in use go bad.

[phalkon30]

Yeah, bought CDs will last longer if both are handled the same.

Thats why I back up all my music to CDr. All the originals are sitting in a binder underneath my bed, they never see daylight and will most likely outlast cd technology.

Some of my cheaper cdr's are allready coming apart. The silver backing peels off and the laser can't reflect the data back to the device. Bought cds really don't do that unless you get them wet, then abrasivley rub the cd

[wonderboy2005]

there was a study done not too long ago - i forgot who did it. anyway, they tested the lifespan of various CD-Rs and CD-RWs. they just burned a bunch of CDs and put them in a safe place, out of light. after about 2 years of just sitting there, never used other than the original burn, many were found to be deteriorating already. some could not even be read.

[origin]

WoW...if that would be true any reason for that? I mean the cd is still in tact as is the data. I usually use TDK cd-r's maybe I am in need of a sudden change in brand? lol

l8

[Wolfie]

I wonder if they anyone did a similar study dvd-rs?

[phalkon30]

Nearest I can tell, moisture and various temp changes crack the foil on cdrs and the glue comes off.

TDK, never used them, but I cant say I've heard too many bad things about them. I've honestly never had a problem with anything, other than those 100 packs that come plastic wrapped with no label (shiny on both sides)

I don't know too much about cds, somebody will probably prove me wrong in saying this...but I think the data is written to the plastic, which stays there. But in order to read the data, something has to reflect it back to the laser. SO the laser goes through the plastic, the image is then reflected off the backing behind the plastic (underside of label) back to the laser. If there is no reflective backing, the laser just passes through and can't read the data (even though its still there).

It might also have something to do with how the data is put on the cd. Store bought cds have the data stamped into the plastic. Cds alter the plastic with different wavelenghts and intensities of light.

[CompuGeek]

I don't know if it's right, but I've always seen comments that CD-Rs are made with higher quality control standards than pressed CDs. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much though.

Before drawing any conclusions, you should keep in mind that CD-Rs might not last as long because you use them more often or treat them more roughly than a CD you paid top dollar for.

:sw

[isus]

i don't use cd's to back up my shiat anymore.

back when i did use cd-r's though, i never kept them around long enough for it to matter... if i needed a backup, i made it fresh, bc i could never keep track of what was already burned.

besides, i have the security of knowing, that cd-r or not, i can send in my drive to a data saver place, and for a mere $400, i can get that drive's data.

of course, the $400 assumes no problems, and minimal labor.

[collideous]

I took a little Google trip on the subject, when fungus suddenly caught my attention:

- Measures of CD-R Longevity (http://www.mscience.com/longev.html)
- CD deterioration due to oxidisation and fungal attack (http://www.queerradio.org/CD's_are_rotting_14th_January_2003.htm)
- Fungus eats CD (http://www.nature.com/nsu/010628/010628-11.html)
- CDs sound better with fungus (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7231642%255E13762,00.html)

[notbob]

I had a quite interesting conversation with a friend of mine over AIM. The question at hand is do CDDA bought cd's from the store last longer(as in wear and tear) or do burned CD-R/RW's?

What I found was that the bought cd's would get the *hit beat out of them and still play but with the cd-r's after a while(wear and tear of course) would be out of shape and skip or not play at all.

Who outlives who?

l8

not really a problem when they are either on your hard drive or on p2p, ready to burn a replacement at any time

is it?

[Siskabush]

hmm, When it comes to CD-R's, I have had no problems yet. (Only problems were caused by me, Spilling stuff on CDs, dropping them, etc..)

I have a few CDs I made back in 1999, they have a few scratches on them, but the sound quality is still great.

As long as you dont scratch a CD-R, you should have no problems.

[begoodbebad]

WoW...if that would be true any reason for that? I mean the cd is still in tact as is the data. I usually use TDK cd-r's maybe I am in need of a sudden change in brand? lol

l8


TDK is one of the better ones for longevity, they estimate their cd-r s are good for 70 years, click here for article. (http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/Media/TDK.html)

Google search for cd-r longevity and you will find lots of interesting stuff. CD Media World (http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd.shtml) is a good site for this type of thing though some of the articles are out of date.

Btw organisations who have effective archiving mechanisms generally work on a 5 year rota for replacing cd-r based data.

[isus]

not really a problem when they are either on your hard drive or on p2p, ready to burn a replacement at any time

is it?
it's not always that easy... some stuff on p2p is very hard to find if you can't find a hash or sources. and if your hd goes belly up and you can't access the one you already dl'ed... you could be waiting for that prog for awhile.

[notbob]

it's not always that easy... some stuff on p2p is very hard to find if you can't find a hash or sources. and if your hd goes belly up and you can't access the one you already dl'ed... you could be waiting for that prog for awhile.

that's the beauty of p2p

you upload everything to your peers--if you run into trouble, you download it back from them

i had crashes without backups, it wasn't a big deal, since all i had to do was grab it back from my dc hub mates--i had it all back in just a few weeks

p2p=RAID on a global scale

[origin]

I found a cool guide on the different kinds of CD-R's where they are made whitch are best whitch last longer and on and on Check it out Here. (http://alcor.concordia.ca/~talfred/cd-r.html).

l8

[Class316]

So far I’ve had one problem with CD-Rs. I had a CD with NeoGeo roms and it wouldn’t read on my DVD-Rom drive but it would read on my CD-RW drive. But even then, one file it would not read. So I copied all contents except that one zip file, I had someone on IRC send me that one file, and then I reburnt a new CD.

[eBwoy]

Well recently I got a kick in the bollocks from me hard drive, and when I had to re-populate my new one, four out of twently burned MP3 CDs I had, basically let me down. Two of those were TDK ones.

All twenty CDs were looked after and not touched for probably around two years. Just two years !

I've also had other ones fuck up too - so my solution now is a secondary 80gig Maxtor drive purely for backups.

Let's face it, even DVDs don't have enough capacity these days either and I now have more trust in a decent hard-drive than any DVD/CD media - simpler too !

[Kooperman]

I haven't had any problems with the old TDK's I have. I try to keep everything in a fairly stable temperature area....heck, I can still play old cassettes I made over 30 years ago, made with an automobile cassette player/recorder powered by a battery charger. Then again, I don't enjoy Black Sabbath and Black Oak Arkansas much anymore either, lol.

[method77]

I don't see the problem here. I buy 50 blank cds for 5 euros (Nexus). If it lasts less than a bought one then i'll burn it again. And again.....and again. An original cd costs at least 20 euros each. Who cares if they last longer

[eBwoy]

I don't see the problem here. I buy 50 blank cds for 5 euros (Nexus). If it lasts less than a bought one then i'll burn it again. And again.....and again. An original cd costs at least 20 euros each. Who cares if they last longer
The point is - you need things to last if you are archiving stuff to be used for retrieving data after a hard-drive problem. You need to know that archived CDs/DVDs will reliably last - otherwise a kick in the bollocks is only round the corner.

I agree that who cares if a CD is just for the car/house etc and it fucks up ? No problem, just burn another - but for being used for archiving/backups . . that's a whole different ball game.

Reliability is essential !

[Wolfie]

I've also had other ones fuck up too - so my solution now is a secondary 80gig Maxtor drive purely for backups.

Let's face it, even DVDs don't have enough capacity these days either and I now have more trust in a decent hard-drive than any DVD/CD media - simpler too !

Even though backing up on harddrive is a good idea (lot more convinent than cd-r and dvd-rs), its not 100% full proof. I had 80 Maxtor fail on me last month (its was my back up drive and it only six months old) and I barely managed to recover all the data using some very hard come by recovery software. When I called Maxtor they said sent it back they'll replace the drive. Unless you have two mirror drives for your backup you are not totally safe from losing all you backups due to mechanical failure on drive.

Now I have a backup on the harddrive and backups on dvd-r just in to be on the safe side. My stategy in back up is have the data in multiple places and forms so if if one goes out I replace it with data stored in other places or forms.

[Malakai1911]

begoodbebad : I dunno who told you that TDK was good for longevity, but they are wrong.

TDK rebrands CMC disks. CMC = Shit, worst, bottom of the barrel.

Next time you pick up a $20+ pack of TDK's, just remember they are the same discs as the no-name that is "free after rebates".

[isus]

notbob:
you would have to lock your important stuff though, or back it up to a free host... and you would also need reliable friends on those hubs, as they could leave or whatever.

i like your idea though, i just wish i had more upload bandwidth, or i would send my stuff to my server... 16kB/s for 4gB of documents, music, and installers would take days...

[notbob]

notbob:
you would have to lock your important stuff though, or back it up to a free host... and you would also need reliable friends on those hubs, as they could leave or whatever.

i like your idea though, i just wish i had more upload bandwidth, or i would send my stuff to my server... 16kB/s for 4gB of documents, music, and installers would take days...
my "important stuff" is on a network shared cd drive burned on a disc

i have installers, documents, pictures etc

as far as mp3s, i have a lot on cd, but if i lose it, i can get it all back the same way i got it in the first place--i paid zero for it, therefore it isn't really losing anything

[CTC Command]

I have had problems with recently made cd-r's suddenly turning into coasters--while others I burned three or four years ago rolling around in my truck still work fine. Sometimes I wonder about the software--creative vs nero vs acid pro, and the longevity of some of these recordings. I was talking to my friend the software architect about this very issue a couple weeks ago, and he thought it might also have something to do with burn speeds; that slow burn speed penetrates the plastic deeper. But after doing a little online research I found a discussion (http://www.icronticforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=2300) about this very issue, very informative. For instance, Sharpies are supposedly bad news for cd-r's too, which might explain the failure of some of mine, but then I have old cd-r's I labeled w/sharpies years ago that work fine, so who knows? It is disconcerting, but digital data storage could be less reliable than paper, which itself seems to disintergrating due to non-organic inks eating away the paper its printed on. It will be nice when quantum computers can store data using the uncertainty principle in the fabric of space-time itself, but in the meantime maybe I'll start backing up my really important data on parchment, or with a chisel and an obelisk, lol.

[shawners]

They say the OXYGEN makes them oxide or something in the cd that will make it lose its composure to play and skip. Thats why they put plastic around THE CD, AIR TIGHT. and also, all the formats the recording industry has done, they made it where it can decay, break, demagnetise like tapes they used. CD scratches, VINYL.. ANything can happen, EIGHT Track.. Yeah they get warped. Thats why they keep us buying music and same albums over and over again. Hard drives can last long time, can always back it up and still have music. THats why they hate us filesharers. We share info on recovering as well as their products.

[shawners]

AFter reading about FUNGAL and stuff. Thats why they want it in a cool dry place. Cold can stop the growth and acceleration of anything. I spend around 20-24 for a good 50 pack of cd-r's. Its just a scam to get more money later on in your life from recording companies.

[TheScaryOne]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the data on the thin sheet of shiny stuff? Because when you look at the bottom of an unburnt cd, it looks different than a fully used, or even partially used cd.

[crackerjacker]

I have had problems with recently made cd-r's suddenly turning into coasters--while others I burned three or four years ago rolling around in my truck still work fine. Sometimes I wonder about the software--creative vs nero vs acid pro, and the longevity of some of these recordings. I was talking to my friend the software architect about this very issue a couple weeks ago, and he thought it might also have something to do with burn speeds; that slow burn speed penetrates the plastic deeper. But after doing a little online research I found a discussion (http://www.icronticforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=2300) about this very issue, very informative. For instance, Sharpies are supposedly bad news for cd-r's too, which might explain the failure of some of mine, but then I have old cd-r's I labeled w/sharpies years ago that work fine, so who knows? It is disconcerting, but digital data storage could be less reliable than paper, which itself seems to disintergrating due to non-organic inks eating away the paper its printed on. It will be nice when quantum computers can store data using the uncertainty principle in the fabric of space-time itself, but in the meantime maybe I'll start backing up my really important data on parchment, or with a chisel and an obelisk, lol.

cool information i am going to check it out.
i dont get much coasters, but when i due its rarely. *i am to lazy to burn stuff*. I figure harddrives are much better to hold stuff.

btw nice to see you posting again.
:)))))))))))))))))))
hehe

also i do know what you mean things i burn like a year or two ago last longer. I happen to think it is when i burn part of the cd, then eject it. I know sometimes when I do wanna protect the cd and make it a permanent recording sometimes i will get a coaster. Or the cd will not work in cd roms but cd writeables. I dunno weird.

btw i also mighta said the wording wrong. i am sort of tongue twisted right now with words.
but point is i know how u feel about coasters and getting them. but i get over it and burn another one. but i am so lazy that i hate burning cds. :)

peace

[Kevin06906]

I never knew that CD's could skip etc..after a long amount of time. I have been playing my CD-R's for a year now and the only thing that is getting weared and torn is my cd player.

[Crazy Horse]

Lots of good points here...good thread.

Me ... I've never given it much thought. It's a no-brainer for me. When I can produce my own CD's for less than .50 cents why in the hell would it matter?!?!?! I sure as hell am not going to go out and buy something for $20 that I can make for less than .50 cents. I also am not going to support an industry that is ripping everyone (including the artists) off.
Whether it lasts as long or not matters nothing to me. I can always make another one. There's always the problem of not being able to find that CD you want in the store either. It could be out of print or just plain unobtainable - I've never had that problem downloading my own material. I ALWAYS find what I'm looking for.

[begoodbebad]

begoodbebad : I dunno who told you that TDK was good for longevity, but they are wrong.

TDK rebrands CMC disks. CMC = Shit, worst, bottom of the barrel.

Next time you pick up a $20+ pack of TDK's, just remember they are the same discs as the no-name that is "free after rebates".


I don't use TDK, I only use Taiyo Yuden, not the cheapest but maybe the best.

Here in UK TDK is a very good quality product and priced accordingly. They might be made by Ritek or TDK.

CMC is not a brand you will find in UK except maybe on ebay and you won't find these discs labelled as TDK here.

[crackerjacker]

Lots of good points here...good thread.

Me ... I've never given it much thought. It's a no-brainer for me. When I can produce my own CD's for less than .50 cents why in the hell would it matter?!?!?! I sure as hell am not going to go out and buy something for $20 that I can make for less than .50 cents. I also am not going to support an industry that is ripping everyone (including the artists) off.
Whether it lasts as long or not matters nothing to me. I can always make another one. There's always the problem of not being able to find that CD you want in the store either. It could be out of print or just plain unobtainable - I've never had that problem downloading my own material. I ALWAYS find what I'm looking for.

hehe
ALWAYS find what I'm looking for

ditto. lol
--------------------------
zippidity do da zippdity something
dam i am cold Just got back from outside.
----------------------------------------------



ok yeah i do agree with you the price of a cd is crap. i remember one time that i brought a whole 2 piece tape set for like 22 dollars or more. I really wanted the album, after awhile the tape got messed up.

so when p2p came around you dam well skippy i downloaded such album. hell i paid for it. see thats the thing what i like about p2p. if you somehow mess up a cd you can always redownload it.

what i really like about p2p is that when a old song beams into my head i wanna listen to it right away, and p2p gives me that option. i have found some rare music that i could not even find in the record stores.

hehe
anyways zipppidity do da zippidity day
again :)
it suks to be cold :)

[isus]

my "important stuff" is on a network shared cd drive burned on a disc

i have installers, documents, pictures etc

as far as mp3s, i have a lot on cd, but if i lose it, i can get it all back the same way i got it in the first place--i paid zero for it, therefore it isn't really losing anything
sounds good :)

[camoor]

there was a study done not too long ago - i forgot who did it. anyway, they tested the lifespan of various CD-Rs and CD-RWs. they just burned a bunch of CDs and put them in a safe place, out of light. after about 2 years of just sitting there, never used other than the original burn, many were found to be deteriorating already. some could not even be read.

Were they rap CDs? I put Nelly's country grammar in the other day, and the system choked because "two pair" was past it's suggested "listen by" date. :D

[MP3Pr0]

I have 4 booklets of roughly 300 CD-Rs each. (Do the math *g*). My experience has shown me the following:

- Factory-pressed CDs are superior to CD-Rs. They are stamped into metal, whereas CD-Rs are etched into a thin layer of dye which is more susceptible to heat, direct sunlight, and scratches than factory-pressed ones.

- Cheap CD-Rs, especially off-wall brands that come with big rebates, are not worth the trouble. I bought some "Prime Peripherals" ones awhile back and the metallic coat was already peeling into glitter dust before I even opened the package! I was *barely* able to recover the contents and copy it to new CD-Rs.

- Not all CD-Rs are made equal. Some use a more reflective dye, some use a higher-quality protective coat, while others are of less quality (but less costly, too).

- Not all CD-Rs work with certain players. A lot of older players, Sega Dreamcast units, and so forth don't like lower-quality CD-Rs. Most newer ones work fine with them, though. I buy the cheapest CD-Rs I can get away with on my players, and make my master copies on high quality ones.

- TDK and FujiFilm are the two brands I recommend for high-quality recording. For general recording, I recommend DuraBrand from Wal-mart or Imation. Watch out for sales which seem too good to be true, since bad batches of CD-Rs always seem to get included! (example: bundles of TDK design CD-Rs for $2 per 25-pack.)

- Handling tips (this should be obvious to any serious collector): NEVER touch the reflective side of your CDs, never use anything sharp or abrasive to write on or clean your CDs, always keep your CDs in protective cases or sheets, keep your CDs out of direct sunlight or heat, and keep your CD players clean and maintained (which helps prevent scratching and read errors).

Hope this helps.

[shawners]

If your hard drive crashes, GOd forbid.. your cd you purchased or CD-r gets damaged.. You can always go back on the net and obtain it.. Most times you can get burned out on the cd and it wont matter much to you.

[crackerjacker]

Were they rap CDs? I put Nelly's country grammar in the other day, and the system choked because "two pair" was past it's suggested "listen by" date. :D

um if your mp3s expired or something its because of the drm.
that is the reason for not having access to them.