split from Rough Draft Forum Structure Reform Plan

[wingnut2600]

Since it looks like there isnt alot of complaints so everything under the General Discussion section wouldnt appear on the front page.

Ill put the changes into it tommrow after enough people respond. Ill try the different structure too because it would work nicer.

Why do this? If there is a recent post that somebody is posting on, why does it matter whether or not it is p2p related. I think that if you are going to take the lounge posts off the recent posts on the front, you might as well just delete the forum. Why not do this? It would stop people, such as myself, from coming and posting? Most of your problems would be alleviated from deleting this forum.

BTW... if you do this no one will come here since they could just go to slyck, p2pforums or even Yoda's NapJunk (or whatever the hell it is) for their p2p news/discussion. the lounge IS what differentiates this forum from the others and is the primary reason that people come back here. If you take these posts off of the front page... you will see the amount of people that come here dropping off. People want interesting topics to discuss. I would not come here to discuss only posts like: "Why can't Kazaa connect?" or "How do I share a file?"

Another important consideration is the link for advertising revenue and site traffic. Less traffic = less advertising revenue. Nobody thinks that 175,000 people daily come to the site.

My point... leave the General Discussion/Lounge posts on the front page. It would be assinine to take them off since they are the most recent discussion and people want to post on currently relevant topics.

[crackerjacker]

Why do this? If there is a recent post that somebody is posting on, why does it matter whether or not it is p2p related. I think that if you are going to take the lounge posts off the recent posts on the front, you might as well just delete the forum. Why not do this? It would stop people, such as myself, from coming and posting? Most of your problems would be alleviated from deleting this forum.

BTW... if you do this no one will come here since they could just go to slyck, p2pforums or even Yoda's NapJunk (or whatever the hell it is) for their p2p news/discussion. the lounge IS what differentiates this forum from the others and is the primary reason that people come back here. If you take these posts off of the front page... you will see the amount of people that come here dropping off. People want interesting topics to discuss. I would not come here to discuss only posts like: "Why can't Kazaa connect?" or "How do I share a file?"

Another important consideration is the link for advertising revenue and site traffic. Less traffic = less advertising revenue. Nobody thinks that 175,000 people daily come to the site.

My point... leave the General Discussion/Lounge posts on the front page. It would be assinine to take them off since they are the most recent discussion and people want to post on currently relevant topics.

haha exactly so many changes to a website in a short time hmm.
yeah yoda has a new website. i dont know what its about this time.

anyways if someone is going to post be it from the lounge area or whatever they should show up on the front page?

i dont see why there has to be so many damn changes to this website?
is it for the better not really.
what all that really seems to matter is the way things are set.
people are use to a certain thing, why friggin change it.

unless zeropaids views on filesharing has changed?
why change something that will only backfire?
eh what the hell do what the hell u want just make sure that u keep things entact in the way they need to.
because sometimes this can confuse people especially people who are new to the site.
but then again do what u want, people come here if they want to, if they dont wanna come they can leave.

thats all man. whatever.
fuk it

[aqlo]

It would stop people, such as myself, from coming and posting? Most of your problems would be alleviated from deleting this forum.You have got it exactly 2600. They don't want our business anymore, we are too uncontrollable. Instead of adapting to the changes that take place naturally they want to try and squeeze things into a format where there is no one to stand up and say No downloading hasn't been adjudicated or No don't buy those albums for any excuse. Then when the money runs dry completely maybe they will sue us.

[Sephiroth]

Why do this? If there is a recent post that somebody is posting on, why does it matter whether or not it is p2p related. I think that if you are going to take the lounge posts off the recent posts on the front, you might as well just delete the forum. Why not do this? It would stop people, such as myself, from coming and posting? Most of your problems would be alleviated from deleting this forum.

BTW... if you do this no one will come here since they could just go to slyck, p2pforums or even Yoda's NapJunk (or whatever the hell it is) for their p2p news/discussion. the lounge IS what differentiates this forum from the others and is the primary reason that people come back here. I


I think your exgerrating it a bit. People visit the main page because this is p2p portal site, if you dont believe me then type "file sharing" into google and see what site is the first one listed. Others here have suggested and i agree that the recent posts on the front page should complement the forums by listing the p2p topics since that is why people visit the site.

What it comes down to is that you dont want to go to the forum page and click the search for new post link. Which im sure a link to that could be added under the recent search box if that is the issue.

Not imitiating other forums is what makes this site different from others even though some here commonly really want us to clone other forums but what works for them usually wont work for everyone.

The lounge wouldnt change much. The way too personal threads(Hi, happy birthday, post count threads) that i think some of those ought to be in private messages or instant message or something because the public forums arent really for a personal exchange between a few people and arent appealing to everyone because the majority of people dunno who these people are and dont really care. The lounge itself would be used for non p2p discussion threads and would focus more on quality not quantity.

So it would mean that those threads would go into the messages forum and post counts for the general p2p discussion wouldnt get counted to stop the spamming and the focus on post counts with are meaningless statistics.

[crackerjacker]

i hate quotes, anyways i am responding to this section below.

The lounge wouldnt change much. The way too personal threads(Hi, happy birthday, post count threads) that i think some of those ought to be in private messages or instant message or something because the public forums arent really for a personal exchange between a few people and arent appealing to everyone because the majority of people dunno who these people are and dont really care. The lounge itself would be used for non p2p discussion threads and would focus more on quality not quantity.



==================================================

this is what i said.


Um what is wrong with happy birthday threads and post count threads?
you dont have to go view the thread if you dont like it you know.

for example when i first came to this site even before they started up with the forums, i remember when the forums first started people would talk about stuff that had nothing to do with p2p.

in fact jorge himself use to post stuff in that forum havent nothing to do with p2p.
matter of fact you posted some stuff in the old news threads a very long time ago that you would not post now.
change is good to a certain extent., but all of a sudden changing so much stuff at once will not matter. as much as its a good idea to have things in a structured manner it is best to leave certain things alone.

where did u get the idea sephiroth that these changes would be constructive or good for zeropaid?

they already did some changes, and now there forum software has bugs and more then once in the last two weeks there forums had database errors. matter of fact i got an error today, but it was not major.

point is maybe u should work on one section of a forum at a time and get others opinions then do it.
hmm
thats all

[Kooperman]

Not imitiating other forums is what makes this site different from others even though some here commonly really want us to clone other forums but what works for them usually wont work for everyone.

The lounge wouldnt change much. The way too personal threads(Hi, happy birthday, post count threads) that i think some of those ought to be in private messages or instant message or something because the public forums arent really for a personal exchange between a few people and arent appealing to everyone because the majority of people dunno who these people are and dont really care. The lounge itself would be used for non p2p discussion threads and would focus more on quality not quantity.

So it would mean that those threads would go into the messages forum and post counts for the general p2p discussion wouldnt get counted to stop the spamming and the focus on post counts with are meaningless statistics.

Seems to this observer/sometimes participant that you're barking up a mighty dull, sterile tree. The wacky and personal posts here are what gives Zeropaid a character and personality which other sites don't possess. it's one of the reasons I keep checking out ZP. There's quite a range of buffoonery, intellect, bad manners and attitude represented here that really create a nice stew. I really don't see a need for changes which would mess with that unique balance. Could be the baby might get thrown out with the bathwater.

[Sephiroth]

Um what is wrong with happy birthday threads and post count threads?
you dont have to go view the thread if you dont like it you know.

for example when i first came to this site even before they started up with the forums, i remember when the forums first started people would talk about stuff that had nothing to do with p2p.

where did u get the idea sephiroth that these changes would be constructive or good for zeropaid?

they already did some changes, and now there forum software has bugs and more then once in the last two weeks there forums had database errors. matter of fact i got an error today, but it was not major.

point is maybe u should work on one section of a forum at a time and get others opinions then do it.
hmm
thats all

When those types of threads take up over half the forum then they become a problem. This isnt the same forum that it was when it first started there is alot more people coming here and therefore to better meet the needs of everyone the structure needs to be updated. It has outgrown the orginal setup and so it needs to be redone to better handle the needs of the forum today.

The plan is to reduce redundent and duplicate forums, get rid and reorganize the p2p section since its difficult to navigate for some now and to rework the general discussion forum to handle the spam threads, as well as bring the focus back on actual discuss on actual topics and not just random post threads or threads based on one link or someone personally.

Upkeeping with the forum software is not structure change. It would not be any easier to do it in parts either and because the whole forums are going to be redone in the same way there is no point to do it parts. As for getting others opinions for what is to be included thats what this thread is for.

Again nothing is getting ditched, just moved to a subforum because its clogging up the lounge from actual discussion. People wont get post count credit which should stop the spamming enough. So the plan would not hurt the "wacky and personal" threads at all. So alot of people are complaining and worried about absoluetely nothing.

[crackerjacker]

When those types of threads take up over half the forum then they become a problem. This isnt the same forum that it was when it first started there is alot more people coming here and therefore to better meet the needs of everyone the structure needs to be updated. It has outgrown the orginal setup and so it needs to be redone to better handle the needs of the forum today.

The plan is to reduce redundent and duplicate forums, get rid and reorganize the p2p section since its difficult to navigate for some now and to rework the general discussion forum to handle the spam threads, as well as bring the focus back on actual discuss on actual topics and not just random post threads or threads based on one link or someone personally.

Upkeeping with the forum software is not structure change. It would not be any easier to do it in parts either and because the whole forums are going to be redone in the same way there is no point to do it parts. As for getting others opinions for what is to be included thats what this thread is for.

Again nothing is getting ditched, just moved to a subforum because its clogging up the lounge from actual discussion. People wont get post count credit which should stop the spamming enough. So the plan would not hurt the "wacky and personal" threads at all. So alot of people are complaining and worried about absoluetely nothing.

yeah but u dont seem to understand to a certain degree people are going to do what they want regardless.
and besides ok you can coordinate the forums and make them subforums as you say, but why dont you guys fix the format of the search engine as well on this website.

its all good and dandy to fix and move some forums, but what is revelent is that how are you going to make it much easier for people to navigate this website if you keep changing the forums around and making to many changes to this website all at once?

maybe you should do sub sections of the forums, fix one forum today and do another one in two week or something. havent something all clustered together in subforums is not a bad idea but you should make sure what you going to do with the posts.
every post should be catagorize to its proper forum, but it should still show up on the front, or something or maybe you should not show anything up on the front.
come on lets get real who wants to see subjected posts on one topic.
p2p is about sharing ideas not only kazaa or filesharing.
people want things changed to a certain degree but not all of it should happen so fast. that is just not cool.

but whatever this is your website or your responsible for setting it up so hey do it your way.
change can be good or it can be worse.
later

[Sephiroth]

yeah but u dont seem to understand to a certain degree people are going to do what they want regardless.
and besides ok you can coordinate the forums and make them subforums as you say, but why dont you guys fix the format of the search engine as well on this website.

its all good and dandy to fix and move some forums, but what is revelent is that how are you going to make it much easier for people to navigate this website if you keep changing the forums around and making to many changes to this website all at once?

but whatever this is your website or your responsible for setting it up so hey do it your way.
change can be good or it can be worse.
later

First i cant fix the forums myself because im not a adminstrator, and i cannot fix forum software bugs which this is a beta verison of the forum. I cant do anything about that only Jorge and Dubstylee can because its their site.

And no we wouldnt be continually changing the forum structure it would only be changed once which is why alot of planning is going on so that it can me done quickly and other than making the changes known and helping people to get used to it which would have to be done either way so again doing it in parts has no effects and again would just be better to get it all done at once rather than continually do the changes in sections as you suggest. Which this thread is not about the implementation of it because its not at that step now and ultimately its up to Jorge or Dubstylee since they would actually have to do it on how exactly to do it. Im confident that with proper planning and preperation that it can be done smoothly at once.

[crackerjacker]

First i cant fix the forums myself because im not a adminstrator, and i cannot fix forum software bugs which this is a beta verison of the forum. I cant do anything about that only Jorge and Dubstylee can because its their site.

And no we wouldnt be continually changing the forum structure it would only be changed once which is why alot of planning is going on so that it can me done quickly and other than making the changes known and helping people to get used to it which would have to be done either way so again doing it in parts has no effects and again would just be better to get it all done at once rather than continually do the changes in sections as you suggest. Which this thread is not about the implementation of it because its not at that step now and ultimately its up to Jorge or Dubstylee since they would actually have to do it on how exactly to do it. Im confident that with proper planning and preperation that it can be done smoothly at once.


So if i am correct your just shooting up lingo in here?
Meaning that your just looking for ideas on how to go about fixing the forums.
So in other words some of the changes that need to be made to zeropaid are going to take place and your just looking for feedback on how it should be done?

If that is the case you should post a poll or something with regard to this subject that way people can particpate in this free expression. This in turn will allow them to feel productive on this site and not keep them wondering as if all the changes being made are being made because you feel they need to be changed.

If you express yourself to the point where u feel that these changes need to be made thats fine, but u think people really care about post count?

that is amazing first of all i have posted on these threads for a long time with many ids, and i could care less about post count rather then the quality of such posts.
maybe u need to do a poll?
dont ya think just for names sake. i think it would be much better to facilitate this process of changing p2p forum guide lines and such.

thanks for your time cheers

[Sephiroth]

Sephiroth you have had this bug up your butt about post-count for months now. When's the last time you posted about peer-to-peer applications? the last 3 pages of you are about how we are all idiots and other political stuff. I couldn't stand to read any more than that. You don't even post about gnutella anymore, all you do is pick fights with people and tell us how to think.

If you want to critize me then you can do it someplace else because this thread is important and should be kept on topic which is not about me.

[Sephiroth]

Meaning that your just looking for ideas on how to go about fixing the forums.
So in other words some of the changes that need to be made to zeropaid are going to take place and your just looking for feedback on how it should be done?

If that is the case you should post a poll or something with regard to this subject that way people can particpate in this free expression. This in turn will allow them to feel productive on this site and not keep them wondering as if all the changes being made are being made because you feel they need to be changed.

Yes thats what the first post in this thread says.

This thread doesnt need a poll people can just post their suggestions in the thread which a poll doesnt allow and until a little while ago many of the posts here were very productive suggestions and the majority of them will be added in.

[crackerjacker]

Yes thats what the first post in this thread says.

This thread doesnt need a poll people can just post their suggestions in the thread which a poll doesnt allow and until a little while ago many of the posts here were very productive suggestions and the majority of them will be added in.

Ok I see what you mean. But just so you know when someone says something right about a topic in general in a lounge thread or something else and they are just postign what they want to it can be off topic you know.

I mean why would people post stupid posts just to gain post counts, sure they do it, but the people who come to these forums for a long time just about know whose a spammer and who is not.

maybe you should just not get into with people who want to express themselves the only way they know how.

just let things be.
in other words people will suggest things in this thread, but that is just the basis for there idea. they just are suggesting something.
i just think that the forums should not be changed, or if u do sub forums then u should keep it in title sub class.

for example if it has to do with p2p with gnutella, keep all gnutella clients in one threaded section.
from there people can click on the forum and see the sub forums.
but the lounge area should remain entact and without any changes thats the way i think it should remain. but thats just me and the way i see things.

everyone has a way of seeing things as well.

[Sephiroth]

Looks good really, although I think lounge posts SHOULD be on the homepage.


I think the best thing to do would be to just exclude the messages forum and the rest could be added if needed in the future. That would work our the best.


Ok I see what you mean. But just so you know when someone says something right about a topic in general in a lounge thread or something else and they are just postign what they want to it can be off topic you know.


I never said that they couldnt...


maybe you should just not get into with people who want to express themselves the only way they know how.


But what happens when those who are expressing themselves the only way they know how interferes with others right to express themselves which is the issue here and whether people are doing it by flaming or insulting, or by cluttering up a forum so much that its hard for others to use it it becomes a problem. Sometimes being fair means you cannot please everybody.


just let things be.
in other words people will suggest things in this thread, but that is just the basis for there idea. they just are suggesting something.
i just think that the forums should not be changed, or if u do sub forums then u should keep it in title sub class.

for example if it has to do with p2p with gnutella, keep all gnutella clients in one threaded section.
from there people can click on the forum and see the sub forums.
but the lounge area should remain entact and without any changes thats the way i think it should remain. but thats just me and the way i see things.


There are too many redundent and duplicate forums, the forum structure of the threaded forums which is what is used now is a mess and is a pain for people to navigate. It needs to be redone so that its easier to navigate, cleaner layout and to update the forum to handle the current amount of people better and to make it more appealing for new posters.

The issue here isnt whether or not it needs to be redone that is not what this thread is about, again to provide suggestions from the plan that I, the rest of the mods and the admins have come up with so far.


But has became offtopic because it seems a few people want use this to bash me which i guess they planned in chat or something, and to go offtopic in this thread about topics that are not part of this topic at all and arent productive one bit. And that has to stop.

[crackerjacker]

I think the best thing to do would be to just exclude the messages forum and the rest could be added if needed in the future. That would work our the best.




I never said that they couldnt...



But what happens when those who are expressing themselves the only way they know how interferes with others right to express themselves which is the issue here and whether people are doing it by flaming or insulting, or by cluttering up a forum so much that its hard for others to use it it becomes a problem. Sometimes being fair means you cannot please everybody.



There are too many redundent and duplicate forums, the forum structure of the threaded forums which is what is used now is a mess and is a pain for people to navigate. It needs to be redone so that its easier to navigate, cleaner layout and to update the forum to handle the current amount of people better and to make it more appealing for new posters.

The issue here isnt whether or not it needs to be redone that is not what this thread is about, again to provide suggestions from the plan that I, the rest of the mods and the admins have come up with so far.


But has became offtopic because it seems a few people want use this to bash me which i guess they planned in chat or something, and to go offtopic in this thread about topics that are not part of this topic at all and arent productive one bit. And that has to stop.

omg no u didnt sephiroth
plan what in chat. for your information i been on irc after several days, i pop in there every 10 days or when ever i am in mood.
point is you still have this thing where u think people are against you or something and up into now i said nothing about this. i gave u the benefit of the doubt so see whether or not you would change your opinion about this.

why would people wanna bash you. matter fact if u profile me i just posted something in another thread with regard to what cheap prick has said.

the point is why would they wanna bash you?
in fact why are u feeling as if people wanna bash you?
in fact if you look at old posts with regard to a lot of shit that happen on these forums, more then half of the people who come to this site like how you handle your self when u were the only mod.

but why should u care that people has a high opinion of you with regard to liking you or not liking you?

people can dislike or like you, the point is that i dont dislike your and i am sure others dont dislike you. the point is you express yourself time and time again and a whole lot, but is it really worth worrying how others think of u ?

u cant please everyone. u do what u can and thats all.
as far as everything else, no one would bash you or conspire against you or whatever. btw your not the only person in this world or on zeropaid forums.

there is many things to do on zeropaid, besides posting, there is reading and just chatting in main chat or whatever. but you need to get it out of your head that people have something against u.

ok your weird and whatnot, but hell i am weird, moody crazy and out of this world as well.
so what should i do stop beign me.
accept whom u are and stop thinkin people have something against you or want to bash you when they arent.

thats it
i have nothing more to say but if i have to say something u bet i will say it to your face. why shouldnt i say how i feel?
if i say it in a respectful and mature manner i can just about say whatever i have to someone.
its not going to kill me to express myself to someone.
but really no one is bashing u again.
just chill man.
take a break and such.
peace
this is it i aint got more to say, and if uthere is more u wanna say just pm me
or whatever and thats it.
dead
bye

[Stellar]

OMG Seph ... are you DUMPING ME???

*sob*

I thought we had something special.

Give me back my fukn ska-punk compilation tape.

[crackerjacker]

OMG Seph ... are you DUMPING ME???

*sob*

I thought we had something special.

Give me back my fukn ska-punk compilation tape.

i know man i was under the impression i was special too.
:(

[CTC Command]

Why do this? If there is a recent post that somebody is posting on, why does it matter whether or not it is p2p related. I think that if you are going to take the lounge posts off the recent posts on the front, you might as well just delete the forum. Why not do this? It would stop people, such as myself, from coming and posting? Most of your problems would be alleviated from deleting this forum.


Wingy one of the unnamed people that came to mind when I posted in the mother of this thread that Sephiroth often seems to be gunning for certain individuals when he ham-hands threads that are of a philosopho-politcal nature. He thinks everything about high post counts; he's obsessed with them. He despises the lounge, is not really interested in making friends here and seems almost pathologically disposed to those of us who do. As Kooperman pointed out, and I will repeat again, we post "wacky and personal" threads because we are an online community of friends, not because we are trying to reach 10,000 posts by Christmas. If we want to talk about spam and high post counts, it might explain why feels he has to intercede 6 times in a thread he doesn't like before closing it. This is not to say that Sephiroth is not hard-working or trying to be a constructive force. But I have noticed that out in the real world people often tear down really cool buildings in the name of progress, and what replaces them is often utilitarian, lackluster and places no one really likes to go. It doesn't sound like we're just making the onramp more accessible here; we're tearing out the scenic highway and replacing it with an overpass...

[Sephiroth]

As i just posted and this just confirms it. I think that your just resorting to attacking me now and its pretty low to do that. Especially since you dont know what i think..

[Ken17625]

Especially since you dont know what i think..

I may not know what you "think", but I know what you post.

What you post, suggests what CTC is saying, is true.

And if reasoning, analyzing, is attacking, then I'm Micheal Jackson.

[CTC Command]

As i just posted and this just confirms it. I think that your just resorting to attacking me now and its pretty low to do that. Especially since you dont know what i think..

Face value observations are not attacks; they are observations. I observe that you do not participate in the lounge discussions and have made it clear you consider them to be a waste of bandwidth. I am observing that you are trying ram through some major changes to this website, some of which are alarming many long-time members, for reasons that seem only to make sense to you. I also observe that you contribute to some of the very same problems (ie spam) that you propose to eradicate with your proposed changes. When you make comments like "People wont get post count credit which should stop the spamming enough," it sounds like you believe you know what is going on other people's mind. I am not pretending to know what you think. But I have observed occassions where you enter a thread in mid-discussion, make several rapid-fire assessments of what is going on that entirely miss the point, then close the thread when your post count is 6 points higher. Other mods close threads with a one post "thread closed." But rarely do I observe you do that--generally you have to make several comments that fuel whatever controversy is going on first. It's like yelling "BE QUIET!" And what is the obsession with taking the lounge posts out of the recent posts on the front page? Most people who cared enough to say what they thought want them to stay in, but you insist they have to go. You also claim lounge posts showing up on the homepage is what is preventing more people from joining ZP--I have given it a lot of thought and I just don't make that connection. Show us some data that supports your position and the rest of us naysayers will climb on your wagon--until then it just seems like your pet peeve. Personally, I would be more concerned with the breast shot in the "faces of file sharing" pic on the front page I saw earlier than with whatever lounge post is co-mingling with the 'serious P2P' threads on the "recent posts."

I have said this before but it apparently bears repeating. I don't have a problem with most of what you do--stopping flaming and banning trolls are good works. Putting an end to the redundancy of some of the forums is also a welcome change, and no one has disputed that a reorganization of the forums would be better. But you increasingly seem to be confusing the opposition to your some of your proposed changes as opposition to you personally. It also feels like you do not want anyone to have any fun around here, and that you want to control or minimize what fun (i.e. the "non-P2P threads") the rest of us are trying to have. Perhaps this is not your intention, but it is the impression you are giving.