question about watercooling

[Clear]

Can anyone answer one or both of these questions for me:

Question 1:
How loud (dB) are the Eheim or Hydor pumps? Every review I read will say their quiet or quiet if set to 7v, but they never give the decible rating or actually go more into detail about the noise.

Question 2:
Can the waterblock design add to the noise? What about the design of the radiator or heatercore, can that add to the noise?

I want to build a water cooling system to make my computer really quiet. So far all the information on the net I can find is performance reviews of popular watercooling kits. A handfull of them might actually mention that a kid is quiet but never mention anything more then that. I have a pretty large full tower case -- Thermaltake Xaser III to be exact, and right now i'm just using the intel stock hsf that came with my P4 2.8-Ghz cpu.

If you have a watercooling kit that you built yourself, would you mind telling me what you got?

Thanks,

- Chris

[shawners]

First building a water cooler for your pc is to make it run faster and have your computer not heat up. I dont think people build them to make them quiet. As far as overclocking with it.

[Krell]

Clear, they do make noise, which seems to be counter productive to sound dampening. Unless you plan to have this self contained in your case, you can put the pump in to a small igloo ice cooler surrounded by foam rubber etc, and you can find them cheap at Goodwill etc. (another mod)

The cooler core you select will lie flat on the floor, and since you will bleed the air out of the system, there will be a nominal amount of kick while running.

Have you gone in to your local aquarium and fish supply store?

.

[Clear]

No I havn't gone to any fish supply stores, not anytime within the last ten years anyway. I do plan to have the pump in my case. Originally I wan planning on just buying a Zalman 7000-cu but when I did more research I found that it only cools about 5 or so degrees better then the intel stock hsf. As of right now, the stock hsf is not doing a good job of keeping my cpu cool. Idle i'm getting around 40*C which isn't that bad I guess, but on max load I get around 75*C. My room gets very hot and there isn't good air circulation, so that is probably effecting the temps quite a bit.

I know the Thermaltake AqurirusII watercooling kit is made to be very quiet, but its not expandible and as far as watercooling goes its one of the weakest. I plan on spending $250-$300 now, and slowly upgrade. I'd like to cool my graphics card, northbridge chip, and even my hard drive. That way everything stays cool and lasts a very long time. But I'm not looking for die-hard extream cooling.

But if watercooling isn't really for me -- cuz after all I don't plan on overclocking -- then I'd probably think about either getting that zalman cooler or a Swiftech MCX467-V Heatsink with a quiet fan like a panflow or vantech stealth fan.

[Krell]

You have a problem inherently, and literally, built in. The cores that fit in to a case are so small, that in a hot room, they dont disipate enough heat. Even if you use a peltier to cool the water, you have to exhaust the heat away from the reverse side of that too.

I would be reluctant to do a watercooled system in phases, I see it being a lot of work .

Yes, you may be correct to consider using Zalman products with large heatsinks and a low rpm 120mm fan to pull air thru the case. You can also use other sound and vibration dampening methods. If you use one of these hefty Zalman beasts, you may want to rig a cable (non conductive) up to the PSU to help support the weight.


http://www.directron.com/smartcool12.html

http://www.directron.com/iso120mm.html

[beardedwonder]

First building a water cooler for your pc is to make it run faster and have your computer not heat up. I dont think people build them to make them quiet. As far as overclocking with it.

With a watercooled system you can eliminate two or three of the noisiest components (CPU fan, Graphics card fan & north bridge cooler) and replace them with one or two quiet fans on a radiator. The pump can be put inside the case on some sort of noise dampening pad, and the radiator can be inside the case and vent air out or can be completely outside the case.

You will find that a lot of people have a water cooled pc to cut down on noise because they want to sleep whilst the pc is on in their room.

[MikeHunt]

Here is a great site that has hardware & software info to help you.

www.subzeropc.com

[Clear]

Yeah thats what I thought, beardedwonder. Oh and MikeHunt, is there any particular item or article at that site you wanted me to look at. I visited it and didn't really find anything relating to watercooling. Although I did find a cool guide on applying thermal paste...lol.

[shawners]

wont the pump itself make noise?? And is all that money worth it when you can plug in a Headphone set and listen to MP3's while surfing the net?? And what if the plastic or something melts and water leaks on the system parts?

[CompuGeek]

Like I told Krell, a paid of headphones will take care of all PC noise problems.

Seriously though, those little refridgerators people use in dorm rooms are pretty quiet, just build a computer inside one of those.

:sw

[MikeHunt]

@ clear...yeah ..let me be more specific
www.subzeropc.com/store/casehd.htm
The SuperDuper fan has a .26db quiet "squirrel" fan. Great cooling specs.
I think this might be the way to go.
Also check the high performance fan section....
some interesting reviews / *articles ...check under navigation ( left side )
* check the articles on Peltiers cooling system as well

[isus]

wont the pump itself make noise?? And is all that money worth it when you can plug in a Headphone set and listen to MP3's while surfing the net?? And what if the plastic or something melts and water leaks on the system parts?
the plastic won't melt... the worst case scenario is something not being fitted properly and you turn on the system, and the pressures cause it to pop off and spray everywhere.

honestly, if you have to ask a question about watercooling, it's better to stick with air than to try to experiment... i'm not saying that to put you down, but if you put much money in your case, and you screw up one tiny thing, the whole thing can go.

[beardedwonder]

Why would the plastic melt if it's a copper/aluminium heatsink that's touching the CPU/GPU/NB??

If you are using de-ionised water there should be no problem as deionised water does not conduct electricity. Thousands of people across the world use water-cooling without any problem. I would say if you are a beginner you may want to opt for a kit. All you need to do is run it outside the computer for 24hrs or so to check for leaks and then put it in the case.

Most watercooling cores use screws to mount them through the 4 holes on the motherboard around the CPU (at least on AMDs anyway) although there are some that clip.

I would find it hard to go to sleep with my headphones on!

PS: If you're looking for ultra-silent fans panaflo are a very good make.

[isus]

unfortunately beardewonder, not many mobo makers still put the mounting holes around the cpu as they used too... it sucks, and i wanna know why they got rid of it.

[Clear]

I have a gigabyte 8knxp motherboard with a p4 2.8, it has mounting holes. As for water leaking, I'm not worried about that. As long as you follow the directions right and don't get a cheap kit, and you leak test it for a good 24 hours then that shouldn't even be a problem. As for water busting out of the hoses, I never even heard of anyone having that problem. So, again, not worried about that.

I don't really see it as a risk to go with watercooling, just more of a hassle setting it up, and expensive. As for why don't I just wear headphones or earplugs. I study in my room and my pc runs 24-7, I don't want to have to wear headphones to get ride of the noise.

Oh and speaking of little refridgerators, lol, I just bought one last week. $20 bucks used at a yard sale. My case is to big though to fit in it. Maybe for a future mod project...lol.

[isus]

I have a gigabyte 8knxp motherboard with a p4 2.8, it has mounting holes. As for water leaking, I'm not worried about that. As long as you follow the directions right and don't get a cheap kit, and you leak test it for a good 24 hours then that shouldn't even be a problem. As for water busting out of the hoses, I never even heard of anyone having that problem. So, again, not worried about that.

I don't really see it as a risk to go with watercooling, just more of a hassle setting it up, and expensive. As for why don't I just wear headphones or earplugs. I study in my room and my pc runs 24-7, I don't want to have to wear headphones to get ride of the noise.

Oh and speaking of little refridgerators, lol, I just bought one last week. $20 bucks used at a yard sale. My case is to big though to fit in it. Maybe for a future mod project...lol.
lemme clarify :-P
not water busting the hoses in half or anything, but if your connections aren't good and tight, they could slip out... and then it would just shoot water.

but yea, as long as you check everything, you should be ok... just make sure you put it in the case carefully because if you leak check it, then toss it on the floor a few times, well...

for that mini-fridge, take the radiator (oh, and make sure you get an all copper radiator. copper is good) and the hoses, and put it in the mini-fridge. most refrigerators are pretty 'sound tight', and it will provide much better cooling then just blowing air over it. if it's in the fridge, i would expect 40 to 50F temps all around.

[Krell]

For ANY fridge to work, and cool, you have to run the COMPRESSOR. Thats the small noisy as hell part that pushes the coolent along as it is a liquid. Whats the use of saying "I want a silent system" and then listening to a damned COMPRESSOR?

Thats why I said peltier, not COMPRESSOR.

Lets suppose that your fridge, is the mother of all quiet ones. By placing the core in the part normally associated with freezing, the pump in the fridge part, and sealing properly,and pumping your water cooled system thru it, you will be able to disapate a LOT more heat. You did not however indicate that you had a fridge when I suggested placing the pump outboard in a cooler.

There's COOL and theres QUIET, and theres SILENT. To my knowledge, no one has been able to properly mix them without a lot of compensation.


http://www.quietpcusa.com/
.

[CompuGeek]

Anyone who's that concerned about noise should rig up a completely wireless setup (keyboard, mouse, and display in a different room).

:sw

[Krell]

Anyone who's that concerned about noise should rig up a completely wireless setup (keyboard, mouse, and display in a different room).

:sw


YOURE A GENIUS! why didnt I think of that?

[beardedwonder]

a refridgerator won't work unfortunately. They are designed to cool things that do no give off heat. If you were to use this the fridge would burn out!
If i had a spare room i'd love to do put my pc in a seperate room.

Isus i didn't know that they'd abandoned mounting holes, my ABIT NF7-S has them so does the A7N8X

[Clear]

Thanks everyone. Some of you have been helpfull. I know a great deal about air-cooling, there is really nothing more for me to read about. It is only watercooling that I still have to learn about. To answer some questions, yes I could build a pc in a mini frig, or put the pc in another room, or use headphones, or rub a magic lamp. There are lots of things I could theroetically do. But what I'm trying to do is build a simple watercooling setup that is more silent then a Zalman 7000-cu.

I'm not looking to go into pelts or have a pump be put in a bucket outside of the case. I don't really want anything outside my pc case, I find that it looks ugly when people do that. I'm not dead set on watercooling either, its just something I'm researching. If I can find a inexpensive (under $300) watercooling kit or setup that is quieter then a zalman-7000 then I'll get one, if not I'll stick to air-cooling.

So far the watercooling kits that I have in mind are the Astech WaterChill and the Thermaltake AqurirusII. Both have some cons that I don't like, so I figure I'd look into building my own kit.

I was really just curious how noisy the pumps are. If I knew that, then I could pretty much figure out how noisy the system overall would be. It's kinda of interesting, cuz I don't think anyone else has really asked this question. Or at least I havn't heard it being asked. And I certinly can't find the answer to it.

Alright well thanks anyways guys. I know your just trying to help (some of you).

- ClearYourMind

[Krell]

Well I dont always succeed . . . but I HAVE gone to the local fish and aquarium shop to do my research. The more parts you want to cool, the larger the core and pump should be. It's perfectly accptable to keep it all in your rig, and with just one fan blowing past the core, and the psu, and the pump, which you can sound dampen, I think you will be fine.

My reservation is in your having a warm room already, but if you use a 120 to blow air across the core, I doubt your rig will melt. good luck with your project.

.

[beardedwonder]

Well I dont always succeed . . . but I HAVE gone to the local fish and aquarium shop to do my research. The more parts you want to cool, the larger the core and pump should be. It's perfectly accptable to keep it all in your rig, and with just one fan blowing past the core, and the psu, and the pump, which you can sound dampen, I think you will be fine.


Why? All you need is a radiator with a fan on it and that will sort the problem out. This may involve a bit of case-modding but at least with a radiator it will cool the water down.

There's a company in the UK www.wetandchillychips.co.uk who use the Maxi-jet MP1200, they're meant to be fairly good.

[Krell]

Thats what I said.

"and just one fan blowing past the core"

I have an infrared thermometer, so I can tell what the true temperature of components really are, and if this isnt done correctly, he will just be recirculating very warm water around, and still not be all that quiet.

[isus]

krell: for the proper cooling/quiet ratio, you hafta buy a water cooler, run the tubes outside to the pump and radiator in a little protected-from-the-elements box, and then go. when it's snowing outside, you would get the best cooling, and since it is running outside, you won't hear it.

however, you would need a pretty strong pump to get water that far away, but there was a guy who ran pipes down the length of his garage, and found a pump that could handle it.

[isus]

beardedwonder: they are for amd mobo's... i was looking for a nice one lately, only to come to the finding that no mobo maker (at least, ones on zipzoomfly.com) has mounting holes.

it may not be true for intel, but i don't have that chip, so i don't look at those boards much.

[Clear]

I understood what you ment Krell. "...with just one fan blowing past the core, and the psu, and the pump..." Meaning one fan blowing directly past the core (aka radatior), but the air would be cooling psu and the pump in the process. But yeah I already knew i needed a fan across the radiator. That is to say if I even get a watercooling kit.

I'm going to email some eshops, see what they tell me. I really what to know how noisy (dB) the pumps are. If they would in fact be quieter then a zalman, a SLK-900, switchec, etc. Thats all I really want to know right now.

[Krell]

krell: for the proper cooling/quiet ratio, you hafta buy a water cooler, run the tubes outside to the pump and radiator in a little protected-from-the-elements box, and then go. when it's snowing outside, you would get the best cooling, and since it is running outside, you won't hear it.

however, you would need a pretty strong pump to get water that far away, but there was a guy who ran pipes down the length of his garage, and found a pump that could handle it.

Why do I feel like this is groundhog day?

I know it, you know it, the american people know it, yet, he doesnt want to exceed his case, in a warm room, and its his choice. Again, the issue is q u i e t, above cooling. The ratio also depends on the size of the radiator, and the environment its in. And yes, I KNOW HE KNOWS THAT. Im out.

[CCSDUDE]

a refridgerator won't work unfortunately. They are designed to cool things that do no give off heat. If you were to use this the fridge would burn out!
If i had a spare room i'd love to do put my pc in a seperate room.

Isus i didn't know that they'd abandoned mounting holes, my ABIT NF7-S has them so does the A7N8X
Thats exactly why you bust the mutha up, remove the main components, and rig them up in such a way that all the cooling features are directed at your CPU/GPU or north bridge.

Either by creating a block in which the coolant flows or soldering/welding the copper evaporation section of tubing to a simple block (the Intel stock would do less the fan and a few 'pin' areas where you'd be laying your copper)and having it remove heat via the blocks surface rather then it's 'guts'.

It's a 'poor mans' refrigerant cooling system... I've made two so far outta old AC units and boxing up the components far from the system with a long run of copper through a PCI slot work well (the thermal loss via the run is negligible - add some insulation if you wanna protect it as well as keep it from dissipating all that lovely coolness). It's just a bitch when moving is involved as the tubing can be very brittle when bent.

[isus]

groundhog day?

hmm

[shawners]

Wouldnt it be hard as hell to upgrade after you install all the lines and compressor, and then something goes out, and you have to take it out and put it all back in their. You can do what i do, my pc is under my desk in a drawer, you could padd the drawer with glue and foam.. put some on the edges so the foam touches the sides when door is closed. ANd its completely shut off. .open drawer, insert cd/dvd/floppy.. and bam!! I only have it in my desk drawer, but you could always make it quiet.

[isus]

if it's under your desk, in a drawer, how the hell does it get any air?

[Clear]

His desk drawer isn't air tight, still allowing air to get in. Alot of people have a computer drawer for their computers. However I have a Xaser III full tower case, and i've never seen a desk with a drawer big enough to enclose this case. Also, I don't want to hide my case, and I don't want another case. I'm not trying to build a new computer in a special sound proof room or box. I'm just trying to quiet this one I already have.

I've heard so many reviews and people mention that if you want better cooling and less noise then go with watercooling. So thats what I'm looking into. I want both of those things, better performance in cooling and a quiet pc. Just in the reverse order. Quiet over performance.

I emailed a couple of estores, no one seems to know the noise level (dB) of Ehiem pumps. I kinda think thats odd. If you own one or even the Hydor, I'd like to know how loud you think it is. My goal is to get my system to be no higher then 25 dB.