Rough Draft Forum Structure Reform Plan

[Sephiroth]

Below is the chart for the proposed changes to the forum layout. A lot of changes have been made and a lot of forums have will probably be merged into a more general forum that would take over its role. This is still in the planning phase so keep that in mind when commenting on it.

The idea is to put more focus on P2P and make those forums more noticeable and easily accessible, improve the layout design to make the forums easier to navigate, and to cut back on spam threads made just to up post counts which is why the spam forums would get cut.

The purpose of all the forums are pretty self explanatory, I didn’t type out all of them because they would be a lot so if there are any questions about a specific forum’s role or where something now would go then just ask.

The forum names in bold are the global sections for instance File Sharing section now and the one below are the same but the forums under it would not have any sub forums.

Sub forums would be used in general discussion forums so new sub forums could be added or merged back into the general forum that it is in as needed.

In addition to the forum changes there the following rule changes would be added:
-All posts/threads in the Zeropaid General Discussion section would not count on post counts to prevent spamming.
-Any threads or posts that are posted to spam in any other section would get deleted or move so anyone who does that would not get post credit. Post counts do not matter and this will hopefully put the focus back on quality not quantity.
-Enforcement of the no flaming rule stricter as it was in the past to curb flaming, and flame bait threads which are highly negative threads, highly biased threads that are made to get a negative response from others.

I left the mod forums out since many cant view them anyways but they would get grouped into a different section.

*Subforums are indented.

File Sharing
-Announcements/FAQ
-General P2P Discussion
-New Program/Network
-P2Politics/P2PUnited
-Zeropaid News
-Digital News
-P2Problems
-Developers Corner
P2P Forums
-Bittorrent
-Direct Connect
-Edonkey/Emule
-Fast-Track/Kazaa
-Freenet
-Gnutella
-MP2P/Blubster/Piolet
-Shareaza
-WinMX
-Waste

General Discussion
-Feedback
-Lounge
-Messages(For happy birthday, post count threads and etc
-Music, Movies & Games(media related discussion, No warez)
-General PC Discussion
-Linux/Mac
-Security/Privacy
-Audio & Video

[Ken17625]

I like the forum layout you listed.

Enforcement of the no flaming rule stricter as it was in the past to curb flaming, and flame bait threads which are highly negative threads, highly biased threads that are made to get a negative response from others

This is an OK term(s) in theory, except it leaves lots of room for "certain individuals" to match statements to their own biased beliefs, and MOD in an unnecessary manner.

It's too subjective of an issue for just one person. I would hope to see a group effort on the part of MODs to consult with each other before making determinations with regard to this issue.

-Any threads or posts that are posted to spam in any other section would get deleted or move so anyone who does that would not get post credit. Post counts do not matter and this will hopefully put the focus back on quality not quantity.


Thats perfectly fine. In fact, I wouldn't really care if Lounge posts didn't show up on the recent threads section of the front page. Post count is irrelevant. If it can be made so that posts in certain areas did not contribute to post count as well, that would be fine.

[DudeAsInCool]

This looks well thought out and workable. Ken's idea about the mod's setting an internal policy as to 'spammers, trolls, flamers, etc., is also a good idea--it will maintain objectivity. Good work, Seph--hopefully the new format will help the Mods mitigate some of the problems they have with running this site.

[Sephiroth]

This is an OK term(s) in theory, except it leaves lots of room for "certain individuals" to match statements to their own biased beliefs, and MOD in an unnecessary manner.


Thats perfectly fine. In fact, I wouldn't really care if Lounge posts didn't show up on the recent threads section of the front page. Post count is irrelevant. If it can be made so that posts in certain areas did not contribute to post count as well, that would be fine.

The first part is going back to enforcing the no flaming part of the rules as they were a while ago like last year. Its nothing new at all and its just going back to what worked before in enforcing the existing rules since we have taken a softer stance on some things and no matter how much we'd like it to work out it hasnt.

Mods do discuss things regularlly internally and has for quite a long time. Even this forum plan was discussed between mods, and the admins before i added those changes, and cleaned it up a little bit before posting it here.

Thats the idea to prevent posts in the general discussion forums would not contribute to post counts because they are irrelevant but unfortantely not to everyone.

Yeah i agree that the general discussion section shouldnt be shown on the front page. That was one of the on the fence type things and unless alot of people complain i think it would go well with the front page and put alot more focus on the p2p section.

[notbob]

*Subforums are indented.

File Sharing
-Announcements/FAQ
-General P2P Discussion
-New Program/Network
-P2Politics/P2PUnited
-Zeropaid News
-Digital News
-P2Problems
-Developers Corner
General P2P
-Bittorrent
-Blubster | Windows
-Direct Connect | Windows
-Edonkey/Emule | Cross-platform
-Freenet | Cross-platform
-Piolet
-Shareaza | Windows
-WinMX | Windows
-Waste
Gnutella
-General Gnutella Discussion
-BearShare | Windows
-Gnucleus | Windows
-LimeWire | Cross-platform
-Morpheus
FastTrack
-General Fast-Track
-Grokster | Windows
-Imesh | Windows
-KaZaA | Windows
Zeropaid General Discussion
-Feedback
-Lounge
-Messages(For happy birthday, post count threads and etc
-Music, Movies & Games(media related discussion, No warez)
-General PC Discussion
-Linux/Mac
-Security/Privacy
-Audio & Video

in general p2p, put everything, without differentiations for fasttrack and gnutella(rather than them having

not like this

fasttrack
-----kazaa
------imesh

gnutella
-----limewire
-----bearshare

donkey derivative
----donkey
----mule
----overnet

cross-platform
----whatever


like this (generic catch alls)

donkey (includes all donkeyvariants)
gnutella (all variants)
dc (all variants)
fasttrack (whatever)
mp2p (etc.)

the categories don't really need to be as specific as they are

[Sephiroth]

in general p2p, put everything, without differentiations for fasttrack and gnutella

like this (generic catch alls)

donkey (includes all donkeyvariants)
gnutella (all variants)
dc (all variants)
fasttrack (whatever)
mp2p (etc.)

the categories don't really need to be as specific as they are

But what would be done with the smaller programs that are their own networks and wouldnt really fit into a generic forum.

[BlueLieu]

Suggestion for the Non P2P threads.

As these have been a source of ire in the past due to the flame/bait/etc nature, exclude these threads from the HomePage "Recent Posts" list. That way negative thread titles would not turn some people off when visiting the site. Also those who create neg threads to bait would be discouraged by the lower visibility of their threads.

[serrebi101]

As long as you do not get rid of the recent posts list on the front page, I do not have a problem with it. Also, I sort of agree with not allowing the zp lounge posts to show up in the recent posts section, to a point. I mean, this is a p2p site, but ppl wanna chill sometimes, and I personaly just look at the front page.
edit: For p2p proggies like aries that connect to its own network, just make a forum called like other p2p programs discution or something to that effect.

[Sephiroth]

Since it looks like there isnt alot of complaints so everything under the General Discussion section wouldnt appear on the front page.

Ill put the changes into it tommrow after enough people respond. Ill try the different structure too because it would work nicer.

[DudeAsInCool]

You might consider having a VIP Corner as a reward for those who've hit ?a thousand posts? or more, and designate this section for serious/technical discussions related to file sharing, or whatever the top people at ZP would/should discuss in your estimation.

[Sephiroth]

You might consider having a VIP Corner as a reward for those who've hit ?a thousand posts? or more, and designate this section for serious/technical discussions related to file sharing, or whatever the top people at ZP would/should discuss in your estimation.

The problems with that is that it would encourage people to spam, and would be seen as playing favorites. I think it would send a bad message, and i dont see what the "top posters" need to post in private that no one else but them could see.

[DudeAsInCool]

The problems with that is that it would encourage people to spam, and would be seen as playing favorites. I think it would send a bad message, and i dont see what the "top posters" need to post in private that no one else but them could see.

You're right on second thought. I was trying to figure out a way in which the top posters would be acknowledged--but that would probably seem exclusive and against the grain of ZP's theme. I was always confused by the Lounge vs. VIP lounge--they always seemed synonymous to me.

[Sephiroth]

I was always confused by the Lounge vs. VIP lounge--they always seemed synonymous to me.

They are, its not special in any way.

[isus]

i think we need a hardware section ;)
and maybe a general software discussion area, for non-p2p related stuff like winamp.
uh, in the pc related, put the hardware... and make a windows subsection, keep mac and linux seperate...

[baghdad_steve15]

-General PC Discussion
-Linux/Mac
-Security/Privacy
-Audio & Video

Linux and Mac grouped together? Say it aint so.

[Sephiroth]

i think we need a hardware section ;)
and maybe a general software discussion area

Thats what the -General PC Discussion forum will be for.

Linux and Mac would be grouped together because there just simply isnt enough discussion in either for them to have their own forums and at the same time it will be seperate from windows discussion.

[isus]

ehh i still think they (mac/linux) should be seperate...

but ok, as long as i know where to post the hardware fun stuff ;)

[The Hunter]

Well actually, i usually bypass the front page, and just click view new posts, not from the front page. Now this may be just a mod thing, to be in a hurry to see what is going on. That i am not sure about. Although if there is a brewhaha going on with a new troll, i dont think it really needs to be on the front page.
Note, just playing the devils advocate for discussion, and and additional thoughts on this.

[phalkon30]

Glad you're finally unincluding lounge posts from post count, it only took you what....6, 7 months to impliment it after I suggested it.

Looks good really, although I think lounge posts SHOULD be on the homepage.

As to the VIP forum, I think most of the people here that make large contributions to this site are allready some type of mod, or know each other well enough to chat it up when and where they want.

[DudeAsInCool]

There are too many redundent and duplicate forums, the forum structure of the threaded forums which is what is used now is a mess and is a pain for people to navigate. It needs to be redone so that its easier to navigate, cleaner layout and to update the forum to handle the current amount of people better and to make it more appealing for new posters.

I certainly agree with this analysis. But of course you want to keep the regulars happy too.

It's actually a good thing that people are debating the restructuring; that says they care. Unfortunately, IMs can often be misinterpreted--so it must be frustrating to be misunderstood, when in fact you are trying to improve the site.
The trick as you outlined is how to maintain the balance and keep moving forward--not an easy task.

I do think Aglo's, Kooperman's and Wingnut's comments are worth noting re: ZP's zany combination of personalities, eclectic threads and Polls . It's truly what makes people come back every day. It's a formula that's working, even though it has its controversies, and may be a pain for the Mods. I fear that if some of the stuff is lost, it will come back and haunt you in terms of the overall membership.

Biiased threads or provocative threads are a judgement call--even Time Magazine leads with them (see this week's cover). I dont know how you are ever going to be able to control any thread that deals with politics or religion--you know the old saying about bringing this stuff up during business or at a dinner with strangers... That's life.

Having both a Lounge and a VIP lounge is a bit confusing, because the postings here often seem to overlap themselves. Combining them is one solution--this would certainly simplify things in that would have less duplication with the birthday threads , etc., but it would also be limiting. Another possibility is to have the movies, games, birthdays, polls and other zany stuff in the (Culture) Lounge. The VIP (or Current Events) Lounge would then be restricted to posts about news, politics and current events. Topical polls could be held in both; this might make more sense rather than as a stand alone; but that's just my opinion. Finally, I'd move Dr. Fileshare under the File Sharing category in the forums.

In terms of the 'recent posts' debate, how about this as a compromise: prioritize the recent posts on the front page with the more serious stuff first, and add headings for clarity: e.g.

1) File Sharing
2) P2P Product Releases
3) Top Stories
4) News & P2P Politics
Discussions
5) ZP Forums
6) Tools and Computing
7) ZP Lounge.

That way the site's focus will be prioritized and clear; the regulars who've gotten used to checking out the recent posts on the front page will be satisfied; and newcomers will be able to learn to navigate the site easier.

Does anyone really care how many posts they have? I'm not sure this is really important, unless you work out a formula to reward the top posters (a T shirt; a notice on the front page?) at certain milestones.

Good luck!

[Sephiroth]

I do think Aglo's, Kooperman's and Wingnut's comments are worth noting re: ZP's zany combination of personalities, eclectic threads and Polls . It's truly what makes people come back every day. It's a formula that's working, even though it has its controversies, and may be a pain for the Mods.

Yes but is it really short term or not? Because other forums that allowed flaming for fun! and the egos and "zanyiness" all died out eventually or just continued to get dull as hell.

So even though you say it might be working for now whether or not is it in the best long term interest of this site is questionable and this formula of carter to the immature personalities of some here and to allow people to get away with what they wouldnt been able for before just for entertainment purposes while not trying to appeal to new users is not a good long term plan.

There were even more people visiting this forum before all that IMHO started to become a problem, many people view the p2p forums or the non p2p threads that actually have a topic by looking at the whos online list now and then for a while.

[vipp]

Sounds good to me so far. There were so many sub forums that I often got lost when I first came here. Still do sometimes. Heh.

As far as the lounge, I'm glad it's not getting eliminated. Sometimes I feel like being serious, and sometimes not. The lounge is good for when I'm not.

Post counts? Doesn't matter to me what sections add to them and which don't. In fact, you could turn them off all together and it wouldn't bother me.

Lastly, could we please have a link to go to RECENT posts, like there was before? Those of us that frequent here don't necessarily want to keep going to the first post in a thread just to see the recent ones. Maybe give us 2 choices, first post in thread or newest? That would be really helpful, IMO.

Thanks for spending your time updating for us.

[DudeAsInCool]

many people view the p2p forums or the non p2p threads that actually have a topic by looking at the whos online list now and then for a while.

This is how I look at stuff, too. But apparently others go to the front page. You might take another look at the Headings suggestion for new posts--wouldnt the site be easier to naviagate with them?

[Sephiroth]

As far as the lounge, I'm glad it's not getting eliminated. Sometimes I feel like being serious, and sometimes not. The lounge is good for when I'm not.

Lastly, could we please have a link to go to RECENT posts, like there was before? Those of us that frequent here don't necessarily want to keep going to the first post in a thread just to see the recent ones. Maybe give us 2 choices, first post in thread or newest? That would be really helpful, IMO.


The lounge was never going to be eliminated. Its always been there from the first post and from the first part of this plan. A few people decided to create a problem that never existed to go on about it.

The plan/thread doesnt cover current forum options or forum policies. Just the layout for now so it doesnt become confusing. Which the only ones who can make those changes to the forum options are admnstrator so you'd have to ask either Jorge or Dubstylee to do it. So really i cant do anything but ask them for you which i dont think is really needed for me to do that.

[Induna]

But what would be done with the smaller programs that are their own networks and wouldnt really fit into a generic forum.


Have a global heading as Other. Then put all the small program/networks in there.

I agree with notbob's proposal, consolidate the forums for each major network rather than have them broken down into loads of sub-forums.

Ask yourself, when was the last time you checked out the Grokster forum?


As for post counts and people saying they're really not bothered. Then why do we always have these celebrations when sombody reaches a milestone of a 1000, or more recently 4000. Obviously people are bothered. Don't kid yourselves.

Not including post counts in the chit chat forums to your overall total is a good idea. Isis' post count would be about 250.

[Sephiroth]

I agree with notbob's proposal, consolidate the forums for each major network rather than have them broken down into loads of sub-forums.


They already are broken down into loads of subforums though and not many are able to find the right forum they are looking for. So they will get ditched entirely and all the p2p forums would be on the main index.

Yeah i think that some of the forums for the networks could be further consolidated too and ill put them all in one section and we'll make up with it with the descriptions and just add subforums to those sections as needed which is pretty much notbob's idea.

[Induna]

They already are broken down into loads of subforums though and not many are able to find the right forum they are looking for.

Exactly, just have a single forum for each network, keep it simple. Having them broken down into sub forums breeds stagnation. Nobody is going to ask a question in a forum that hasn't had any activity in the past two months. I've always thought that if you have too many forums things become fragmented. If you only have a handful of forums things become streamlined, you get a higher turnover of people visiting each forum rather than people just poking their nose in once in a while. Which increases the likelyhood of your question/problem being answered.


Of course you have to keep the Lounge, that was never in question. You need an alternative, an outlet for people to talk about other stuff. Nobody wants to talk P2P 24/7. Also, rename the VIP Lounge to Current Affairs/Political Debate. VIP suggests an elite forum for elite members, which it isn't really.

And as Isis said, rename "PC Discussion" to Hardware. Makes sense.

[Malicious Intent]

I don't like this idea of taking emphasis off the lounge. Stopping post counts seems like a drastic measure to what I assume was the Three Words Only thread, but whatever.
The main point I'm making is that the lounge keeps me coming back, the general chat, comedy and communitee feel. While I'm hear I sometimes answer newbie questions (for what my solutions are worth) and try my hand at some more advance stuff now and again.
You don't want regulars wondering off, else you may gain more focus on p2p, but perhaps lose the knowledge to answer questions and provide help.

[Induna]

Of course you have to keep the Lounge, that was never in question. You need an alternative, an outlet for people to talk about other stuff. Nobody wants to talk P2P 24/7.


.................................................. .............

[Malicious Intent]

I know Induna, I was agreeing with you. But I was going a step further and saying that it should continue to be an important part of ZP and not consigned to the depths of the website.

[Sephiroth]

The community expands to alot more than just the lounge. It covers the whole site and i think that the forum has kinda split a little from that and i want to bring back and appeal a little more to the people who visit the front page. Then maybe they will register and start posting here.

The messages forum is going to be for the "community" threads, which if the core of the community here is chit chat threads and posting really just random posts what exactly does that say about the community here. People have been complaining on and off about these threads for a while and really we cant exclude them either.

The general discussion sections is suppose to complement, not dominate the forums and site. Which is really the best way i can put the role of the non p2p forums here.

To answer some of the ideas.

Current events and general discussion threads would go into the lounge. The chit chat threads would go into the messages forums. I dont think a seperate forum will be neccessary.

The General PC discussion forum would cover alot more than just hardware it would be for windows, appliciations and anything computer. I dont think that a seperate hardware section would get enough activity because there isnt alot of threads about hardware here regularly. So it should start off in the general forum and if there is alot of activity then it could get its own forum sometime later on in the future if needed.

[Malicious Intent]

Firstly, sorry for my spelling of community.

Complement rather than dominate sounds perfect. I just feared that the section would get buried, but that clearly isn't the plan.

[phalkon30]

I think something people need to realize, is that no solution will be perfect. If something doesn't work, or if a forum gets too active, its not hard to split it up, or add another forum.

[vipp]

I hope threads don't get purposely posted in the wrong areas due to the change in post count procedure.

[The Hunter]

If they do, they will simply be moved to the proper area.

[vipp]

Yes, but that's needless work for you.

[phalkon30]

I have a quick suggestion. When everything gets organized, I think it would be best to put links from the programs section to the pertaining forum. Kind of like slyck does, get all the information in one area.

[Sephiroth]

I have a quick suggestion. When everything gets organized, I think it would be best to put links from the programs section to the pertaining forum. Kind of like slyck does, get all the information in one area.

Yeah ill work at getting that done after everything on the forums gets set up.

[Sephiroth]

updated the layout and condensed the layout even more.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Seems like alot of pointless tinkering. some people obviously have way too much time on their hands.

[phalkon30]

Much better, I like that layout.

[Kevin06906]

Good Job

I'm here just to report the bugs.

[FreakinWeasel]

I don't like this idea of taking emphasis off the lounge. Stopping post counts seems like a drastic measure to what I assume was the Three Words Only thread, but whatever.
The main point I'm making is that the lounge keeps me coming back, the general chat, comedy and communitee feel. While I'm hear I sometimes answer newbie questions (for what my solutions are worth) and try my hand at some more advance stuff now and again.
You don't want regulars wondering off, else you may gain more focus on p2p, but perhaps lose the knowledge to answer questions and provide help.

I agree with you MI. But, I voted to keep the lounge off the front page only from a standpoint of what will catch new peoples eyes. My thinking was based on being a mod at 2 sites right now. I apparently was wrong about how many stay here just for the lounge and it's many topics. P2P forums are like fleas these days so there is no shortage of places to look for p2p topical information. The news is all the same from site to site, the newbies who missed the boat a year ago looking for warez are all the same, etc. But what is lacking is homebases where people can go and congregate as a community.
I know this will just piss you off Seph, but a flame area or volatile subjects area does work. Then anything that is just fun, timely, interesting, can be openly discussed in the lounge area where it can also be displayed front page to let all see what is happening now. This is provided that the mods don't abuse the power to move stuff into the flame area and people posting keep the lounge area in it's proper format.

[Sephiroth]

[QUOTE=FreakinWeaselI know this will just piss you off Seph, but a flame area or volatile subjects area does work. Then anything that is just fun, timely, interesting, can be openly discussed in the lounge area where it can also be displayed front page to let all see what is happening now.[/QUOTE]

No it does not work in the long run and we really dont need to do anything like that because were not doing that bad and were not that desperate. Time after time again in every case it does not work out. You claim that its doing great now but it never lasts and it drives away all the good people who dont want to put up with it.

[FreakinWeasel]

No it does not work in the long run and we really dont need to do anything like that because were not doing that bad and were not that desperate. Time after time again in every case it does not work out. You claim that its doing great now but it never lasts and it drives away all the good people who dont want to put up with it.
Hmm, well I guess you had already made up your mind on this Sephiroth. Please don’t misquote me by saying flame forums are doing great, I never said that, but they do work at one of the sites I work. They are not without trouble, I agree there. But once people get use to avoiding that area, if they don’t’ want to deal with the content, then it works much better. I don't view my suggestion as an act of desperation for ZP, and I also never suggested that ZP was doing badly. You brought up the subject and then closed the thread, so I brought my well meaning suggestion over here. I still think there may be a way to separate the obnoxious posts and the inappropriate threads from being publicly aired, while still maintaining the status of the recent posts area and the lounge forum. If you don’t want to promote flaming on the ZP boards that’s fine, I don’t blame you. But there has surely got to be a way of giving people a little latitude to post something that may provoke some real heated discussion, even if you don’t agree with the topics. After all it is “our” home too.

[phalkon30]

FreakinWeasel, I disagree with you on the flame/spam forum.

Take ESV for example, they have one, and it shows. UniteTheCows on the other hand, has nothing close to that, and it shows. There are very strong communities in both, but the atmospheres are very different.

Granted, that could be because of how the forums are moderated...I still think that in a forum where foul language is discouraged you'll have a generally more friendly board.

[Sephiroth]

But there has surely got to be a way of giving people a little latitude to post something that may provoke some real heated discussion, even if you don’t agree with the topics. After all it is “our” home too.

By heated discussions do you mean flaming or trolling? Believing in all the crap that the ones who do flame and troll want others to believe so they will fight for their right to get away with it? Using tatics like blaming the moderators and spreading absolute crap that the mods close the flaming threads because they didnt agree with the topic not because they were flaming or trolling threads.

Ive given up trying to explain it to explain the difference so its not my problem Im just going to enforce the forum rules like that have been in the past.

Flaming forums dont work on principle, dont work in theory and just try to appease the very small minority of immature idiots by forcing everyone else to conform to their childish insults and antics.

[CTC Command]

While I agree with some of Sephiroth's reasons for restructuring the forums, I respectfully disagree with others. There certainly are some repetitive forums and that a streamlining of them along the lines he suggests would be more intuitive and make the site easier to navigate. For those of us with dial-up connections, anything that makes navigation simpler and faster is a change for the better. However


The messages forum is going to be for the "community" threads, which if the core of the community here is chit chat threads and posting really just random posts what exactly does that say about the community here. People have been complaining on and off about these threads for a while and really we cant exclude them either.

What it says is that on most days, the hobby of downloading and sharing files via the internet is fairly mundane. Many who have found a home here post "really random posts" because of the sense of "family" and familiarity of the regulars here. After a hectic day out in the marketplace it's nice to come home, click onto ZP and find both serious and lighthearted discussions taking place. When something big is going on (like the RIAA suing individual filesharers, or when a major P2P client goes belly-up or a hot new app comes on the scene), these topics do get plenty of attention. As for the nattering nabobs of negativity who "have been complaining on and off about these threads for a while" I will patiently repeat the same advice to them I have dispensed numerous times before. No one forced them to log on, open a thread on a topic they knew they would find disagreeable before they clicked on it, and read all the posts until they find something they can get upset over and spew invective or be slyly insulting. If someone thinks a thread about Michael Jackson or Ice Cream or Poetry is silly or stupid, then by all means don't read it.

The general discussion sections is suppose to complement, not dominate the forums and site. Which is really the best way i can put the role of the non p2p forums here.

Actually Sephiroth, I think the best way you could have put this was just to come right out and say that you intensly dislike the non P2P forums here. After being here for over a year, other than Sealab 2021, it is really difficult for me to say what is you DO like. Of all the mods here, there is no one else who jumps into the middle of heated but above-board discussions as often as you have and either shut them down or turned the tenor of the discussion into something far more negative than what was going on before hand. This has nothing to do with shutting down trolls or outright flaming; I have no problem with banning idiots nor do I think that a flame forum would be a good idea, unless we bring Krell back and PAID HIM to moderate it. (j/k; a flame forum would just be asking for trouble, imo.)

But on several occassions I've watched some interesting discussions get completely derailed by you, especially if they have anything to do with politics, and most especially if certain members are involved. I think some of what you do here are good works, but other times I can't see the same sense of balance and "disinterest" (using that term in its most traditional definition) that other mods affect. You could lighten up just a tiny little bit and I doubt anyone would object...While we're adjusting what posts are worthy of being "counted" or not, perhaps repetitive moderator diatribes should be subtracted from the total along with all the aforementioned "non-P2P" uselessness.

Then there's the 75% who voted (before you locked out the last discussion) to leave the "recent posts" as is. For whatever reason, it seems those results have led you to believe that not only do the "recent posts" need to be revamped but a complete facelift of ZP is in order. And while I might agree with some of your points for doing so, I think you are going to do what you want no matter what me or the rest of us say. I hope these changes make ZP a better place, but if they don't, people around here won't be voting in yet another of your polls--they'll vote with their feet.

[cheapprick]

What it says is that on most days, the hobby of downloading and sharing files via the internet is fairly mundane. Many who have found a home here post "really random posts" because of the sense of "family" and familiarity of the regulars here. After a hectic day out in the marketplace it's nice to come home, click onto ZP and find both serious and lighthearted discussions taking place. When something big is going on (like the RIAA suing individual filesharers, or when a major P2P client goes belly-up or a hot new app comes on the scene), these topics do get plenty of attention. As for the nattering nabobs of negativity who "have been complaining on and off about these threads for a while" I will patiently repeat the same advice to them I have dispensed numerous times before. No one forced them to log on, open a thread on a topic they knew they would find disagreeable before they clicked on it, and read all the posts until they find something they can get upset over and spew invective or be slyly insulting. If someone thinks a thread about Michael Jackson or Ice Cream or Poetry is silly or stupid, then by all means don't read it.

I won't argue a word of that, except in the cases that a post is made to try and incite flaming or attack somebody on race, religion etc.




Actually Sephiroth, I think the best way you could have put this was just to come right out and .......While we're adjusting what posts are worthy of being "counted" or not, perhaps repetitive moderator diatribes should be subtracted from the total along with all the aforementioned "non-P2P" uselessness.


To be fair, and I know you don't mean to attack him, but he's moderating in the same fashion he always has. I don't share all of his political views, but I don't see a deliberate attempt to incite flaming from him. He posts his opinions, and the biggest fault I can find in them is that he doesn't always understand why everybody doesn't share them. I think the forum has gotten a little touchy about his input, and that's not all his fault. More than any other mod, he is trying to make this a place that new people can sign up and post. If that means that he often doesn't take the side of long-term members, I don't believe it's out of spite. I think he may be looking at the roughly 170000 members that have never posted and wonders why not.

Then there's the 75% who voted (before you locked out the last discussion) to leave the "recent posts" as is. For whatever reason, it seems those results have led you to believe that not only do the "recent posts" need to be revamped but a complete facelift of ZP is in order. And while I might agree with some of your points for doing so, I think you are going to do what you want no matter what me or the rest of us say. I hope these changes make ZP a better place, but if they don't, people around here won't be voting in yet another of your polls--they'll vote with their feet.

I think you can rest assured the poll was posted for a reason. If we didn't want people's input, it probably would have just been changed. I would have to say that I doubt it will now.

[Sephiroth]

While I agree with some of Sephiroth's reasons for restructuring the forums, I respectfully disagree with others.

Many who have found a home here post "really random posts" because of the sense of "family" and familiarity of the regulars here. After a hectic day out in the marketplace it's nice to come home, click onto ZP and find both serious and lighthearted discussions taking place. When something big is going on (like the RIAA suing individual filesharers, or when a major P2P client goes belly-up or a hot new app comes on the scene), these topics do get plenty of attention. As for the nattering nabobs of negativity who "have been complaining on and off about these threads for a while" I will patiently repeat the same advice to them I have dispensed numerous times before. No one forced them to log on, open a thread on a topic they knew they would find disagreeable before they clicked on it, and read all the posts until they find something they can get upset over and spew invective or be slyly insulting. If someone thinks a thread about Michael Jackson or Ice Cream or Poetry is silly or stupid, then by all means don't read it.

Actually Sephiroth, I think the best way you could have put this was just to come right out and say that you intensly dislike the non P2P forums here. After being here for over a year, other than Sealab 2021, it is really difficult for me to say what is you DO like. Of all the mods here, there is no one else who jumps into the middle of heated but above-board discussions as often as you have and either shut them down or turned the tenor of the discussion into something far more negative than what was going on before hand.

But on several occassions I've watched some interesting discussions get completely derailed by you, especially if they have anything to do with politics, and most especially if certain members are involved. I think some of what you do here are good works, but other times I can't see the same sense of balance and "disinterest" (using that term in its most traditional definition) that other mods affect. You could lighten up just a tiny little bit and I doubt anyone would object...While we're adjusting what posts are worthy of being "counted" or not, perhaps repetitive moderator diatribes should be subtracted from the total along with all the aforementioned "non-P2P" uselessness.

Then there's the 75% who voted (before you locked out the last discussion) to leave the "recent posts" as is. For whatever reason, it seems those results have led you to believe that not only do the "recent posts" need to be revamped but a complete facelift of ZP is in order. And while I might agree with some of your points for doing so, I think you are going to do what you want no matter what me or the rest of us say. I hope these changes make ZP a better place, but if they don't, people around here won't be voting in yet another of your polls--they'll vote with their feet.

You see the difference is that im not here for an internet "family" nor do i really believe in that. This is just a web forum used for posting on topics.

Also you critize me for not posting in the often immature and unappealing "forum family" threads, yet use the the old "if you dont like then dont read it" lame excuse and has been used by the trolls alot in the past. So your saying if you dont like then dont read it but at the same time I should post in them to conform to yours and others view of the forum that isnt the purpose.

Maybe if some werent so obessed with this "family" crap a little too much, and actually had more interesting discussions that werent on flamebait topics. Then i would probably post more in them.

Im tired of people attacking me personally or coming up with lame reasons because they dont like parts of the suggested improvements.

Which is exactly what i think is going on because people cant come up with any good arguement against some of the changes other than page loadtimes which isnt an issue, ad revenue, or making up reasons that its really to decide whether the lounge stays or goes which has never been the topic. So its much easier to just attack and critize me. Which i think its a very low and shitty thing to do.

[collideous]

Since we're talking homepage layout. Can we kill the random image of facesoffilesharing.com? Many of the pics showing up on the front page just don't fit well on Zeropaid.

[Kooperman]

You see the difference is that im not here for an internet "family" nor do i really believe in that. This is just a web forum used for posting on topics.
Maybe if some werent so obessed with this "family" crap a little too much, and actually had more interesting discussions that werent on flamebait topics. Then i would probably post more in them.

The family "crap" is what makes this place unique. If management is unable to see that, then perhaps management should be enlightened by ownership. They've hit on a successful formula.....it would be a shame for the appointed management to screw it up by turning it into something cold and distant. The absolute goal of a website, radio show or movement of any kind should be to cultivate a family of followers. Ask Rush Limbaugh, Art Bell, The Grateful Dead or Oprah Winfrey about the benefits of building a familial base of your customers. It attracts more and more customers to the fuzzy honeypot. Lastly, let me stress that this is not a personal attack on any individual, but it is a reasoned appeal for common sense to enter into whatever is done here by whoever is in charge of doing it.

[CTC Command]

Perhaps Sephiroth is NOT my brother after all...nah, just kidding. It's just that he just doesn't believe it.

No one wants you to conform Sephiroth. Just stay in your room by yourself with the door shut and the rest of us will go outside and play.

[DudeAsInCool]

You see the difference is that im not here for an internet "family" nor do i really believe in that

Well, some of us do believe in the community of ZP, and believe it or not, you're one of the family. And I think we should give Seph credit for trying to improve ZP--whether we agree with his suggestions, or not, at least he's giving it a whirl.

[Sephiroth]

Well, some of us do believe in the community of ZP, and believe it or not, you're one of the family.

The "family" again is different than the community. The Community of Zeropaid consists of everyone who visits this site IMHO while the "family" consists of a little more than a dozen forum members who do not act in the best interest of the community of zeropaid only for themselves and other members of this "family."