the "un-boycott"

[HolyMoly]

I've only seen this proposed once (not here). And, I'm not necessarily endorsing this since it doesn't really solve anything but, instead, exacerbates an already perplexing problem. But, the idea does have some merit to those who truly hate the music industry and/or RIAA.

Due to the high cost of music CDs, even the most staunch supporters of the RIAA and music industry have taken steps to cut their bottom-line on music purchases. Put simply, they'll buy a CD from a retail store, copy it at home, then sell the CD to a used-CD store in exchange for either cash or credit on a future purchase. And, the RIAA has already tried to make selling used CDs illegal - and failed. Were they to succeed, it would have a ripple effect on the video industry which has, for years, sold used videotapes (Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, etc., etc.). And this precedent of legally selling used videotapes has been around for such a long time it would be hard to challenge in court.

Bottom line? Instead of boycotting the music industry, many people are starting to boycott only the retail side of the music industry. They'll buy all their music CDs from used-CD stores, copy them at home, then return the CDs to the same store for credit on future purchases. And people who don't have used-CD stores in their area who at least have internet access can do the same thing vis a vis the online used-CD stores -- including http://SecondSpin.com which claims to be the largest used-CD buyer/seller on the web.

Buying/selling to such stores is under the RIAA's radar screen. Sure, you have to pay some money for the music. But, you won't be getting a knock at the door nor a subpoena in the mail for doing it. And, the practice would hurt the industry in a direct and demonstrable way ... since used-CD stores pay no royalties on the CDs they sell.

[Ea$y_E]

CD sales are not the only venue the RIAA has to make $$. there is a whole bigger picture, people either refuse to see or they simply cant see it.

[HolyMoly]

CD sales are not the only venue the RIAA has to make $$. there is a whole bigger picture, people either refuse to see or they simply cant see it.

I'm all ears ... please expand on this. To my knowledge, CD-sales are the RIAA's cash-cow ... which explains why they've been so vigorous in mounting an offensive against P2P use. But if there's a bigger cash-cow, let me know.

[rainbowdemon]

Actually a good idea. The only cd's I've been buying (other than blank ones) have been used.

[rainbowdemon]

CD sales are not the only venue the RIAA has to make $$. there is a whole bigger picture, people either refuse to see or they simply cant see it.
I would like to hear about that too. If there is another way to boycott them, I'm all for it!!

[Star Guitar]

Once again, I argue that it does not involve money by itself. Money is the end product, but the real intent of the R.I.A.A. is control of distribution. They want to be sure that, collectively and ideally, they are the only source of music to people in the world. If they so had the choice, they would burn independent labels at the stake, shut down used CD stores, and force everyone on earth to purchase their inferior product at a significant premium.

You couldn't offer them enough money to give up control. This is why multibilliondollar deals have failed in the past. This is why current pay sites and services are limited in their selection. They want multiplatinum sales on the next big thing. They have the means and methods to lead people into what the next big "artist" will be, at least to a degree. With enough preplay and hype, they can guarantee consistent big sales on whatever they choose.

Open up the coffers on the past, however, and things become much less predictable. You can't always hype old music and expect significant return. It's like investment. Speculate, and you can get fast cash. Buy mutual funds and index funds, however, and you can make money over the long-term. I personally believe that the RIAA would ban music more than a few years old if they could, if only to keep people buying more curent music at that premium.

The RIAA is still stuck in fast cash mode, and this is what is going to run them into the ground. Change or die. That's capitalism.

[HolyMoly]

Once again, I argue that it does not involve money by itself. Money is the end product, but the real intent of the R.I.A.A. is control of distribution.

I agree absolutely. But the present-day reality (cash-wise) is that they can't control distribution until they can control their cash-cow ... the sale of music CDs. This is why the used-CD scenario would stifle them ... since they've already tried and failed to control the distribution of used CDs.

[Ea$y_E]

do you own a sony Tv, camcorder, PS2, sony cd burner?........congratulations!! you have just indirectly funded the RIAA!!.....use AOL?...your providing funds to the RIAA!.......use roadrunner cable? its owned by time-warner...you provide funds for the RIAA!.....have cable channel HBO? once again thats time-warner. you see its not just CD's thier are many different areas of interest that directly/indirectly provide funds to them.

[HolyMoly]

do you own a sony Tv, camcorder, PS2, sony cd burner?........congratulations!! you have just indirectly funded the RIAA!!.....use AOL?...your providing funds to the RIAA!.......use roadrunner cable? its owned by time-warner...you provide funds for the RIAA!.....have cable channel HBO? once again thats time-warner. you see its not just CD's thier are many different areas of interest that directly/indirectly provide funds to them.

So what else is new (grin). The RIAA is an industry association, nothing more. And the industry they represent is the music industry. The conglomerates you mention are pervasive in society and there is no way of escaping them. But, there is a way of escaping the royalty-payment scenario for music CDs ... which was the subject of my original post to this topic.

[rainbowdemon]

do you own a sony Tv, camcorder, PS2, sony cd burner?........congratulations!! you have just indirectly funded the RIAA!!.....use AOL?...your providing funds to the RIAA!.......use roadrunner cable? its owned by time-warner...you provide funds for the RIAA!.....have cable channel HBO? once again thats time-warner. you see its not just CD's thier are many different areas of interest that directly/indirectly provide funds to them.
I judt did some checking. All of my electronics are:
Dell
Lexmark
RCA
Sanyo
G.E.
Emerson
Philips
Cyber Acoustics
and so on. No Sony. Cable tv does not even exist here. And I refuse to use AOL. So without even being fully aware of it, I've already been boycotting these products!!

[lizardsforall]

the only way to boycott the RIAA completely is to go and live in the mountains and be a transcendetalist, tree-hugger. Large corporations will one day, dictate to us how we live our lives and what we should enjoy; everyone comforms eventually. untill then lets boycott our asses off .

[my name]

the "boycott" obviously does not exist. if it were results would have been seen by now.

[HolyMoly]

the "boycott" obviously does not exist. if it were results would have been seen by now.

You're correct. It will either start or it won't start. But I was merely bringing up the "un-boycott" idea since I'd not seen it discussed very much or in very many places. But, to those who truly hate the industry and/or RIAA, it does have merit ... and it does have the virtue of never having been tried en-masse ... yet.

However, as to seeing results "by now," I have to remind you that P2P has only been around (as a popular venue) since Napster was launched in July, 1999 -- just 4 years ago. And the RIAA vendetta against individual file-sharers has been around for less than a year. So, I think that "seeing results by now" comments are a tad bit premature.

_

[notbob]

You're correct. It will either start or it won't start. But I was merely bringing up the "un-boycott" idea since I'd not seen it discussed very much or in very many places. But, to those who truly hate the industry and/or RIAA, it does have merit ... and it does have the virtue of never having been tried en-masse ... yet.

However, as to seeing results "by now," I have to remind you that P2P has only been around (as a popular venue) since Napster was launched in July, 1999 -- just 4 years ago. And the RIAA vendetta against individual file-sharers has been around for less than a year. So, I think that "seeing results by now" comments are a tad bit premature.

_

i see we have another influx of these type of idiotic posts again

nobody cares about you or your ideas

you won't change anything here, since most of us don't pay for music anyway, and believe it or not, the people that matter, congresspeople, senators etc don't read this site, and do take wads and wads of PAC money from the media companies

the people who are behind the boycott are in it to sell tshirts and coffee mugs--they know it's a futile battle, so at least they'll make a buck off of it

[HolyMoly]

nobody cares about you or your ideas

I don't care if nobody cares. But I suspect that some people do ... maybe many people.

the people who are behind the boycott are in it to sell tshirts and coffee mugs--they know it's a futile battle, so at least they'll make a buck off of it

Of course they're making a buck off of it. But I don't believe they think it's a futile battle. BTW, I just post here - and have no association with any boycott-this or boycott-that entity. But unlike you, I do pay for some music and not for others. Depends upon whether I'm being sold a good CD or a bad CD with only one or two good songs on it. And no, I haven't yet bought a single CD from a used-CD store ... but I have given it some thought. And, I think my "un-boycott" post may give other people the same thought. If you disagree, it's fine by me. Enjoy.
:mellow

[Sephiroth]

This idea seems as lame as that dumb idea of burning cds and leaving them in public...

How about people boycott the record companies and just support the band directly by purchasing off their site and going to their concerts? Both of which cut out the record company middlemen.

[HolyMoly]

How about people boycott the record companies and just support the band directly by purchasing off their site and going to their concerts? Both of which cut out the record company middlemen.

... unless the label gets a cut of all sales from the band's website. Otherwise, I think it's a good idea, too.

[camoor]

i see we have another influx of these type of idiotic posts again

nobody cares about you or your ideas

you won't change anything here, since most of us don't pay for music anyway, and believe it or not, the people that matter, congresspeople, senators etc don't read this site, and do take wads and wads of PAC money from the media companies

the people who are behind the boycott are in it to sell tshirts and coffee mugs--they know it's a futile battle, so at least they'll make a buck off of it

People care. I care. I don't care as much as I do about the (now disastrous) occupation in Iraq, or health care being ruined by tort lawyers, but I do care.

I vote everyday. I vote with my wallet. I don't support the RIAA in any way, I don't buy CDs and I don't buy music online. If I get outvoted by 50 million kids buying the next 50 cent album, so be it.

And just because bought-and-paid-for politicians and media companies are not going to make it easy to bring the DMCA in line with Constitutional freedoms, that doesn't mean it will never happen. Never doubt the power of the Supreme Court, or a grass roots campaign.

[shawners]

Soon as RIAA finds where they are losing money, they will call their bedbuddy congress.. Screw them with a story, have them used cd shops give in some mounts of money. Even used cd shops sale NEW unwrapped Cd's. My biggest concern is that what about new releases. It may be hard to get new music if everyone doesnt buy it, and only a few do. And what if they use different used cd store, and not in your area. And when you go to buy it a month later, they still dont have the USED cd.

[ASUmusicMAN]

I dunno...i've just been watching this boycott battle for a while on the sidelines and have watched all the various ideas thrown out. I watched the "don't by a CD on some random ass day that no one knows about until its already passed" bid...that leaving CDs out on the subway one was classic. I don't even see why there is this massive thing for the boycott...no one here buys CDs anymore (i'm talking new fresh from RIAA stamping). If you do, thats just retarded...look at the site...ZERO paid, nada, nothing. So everyone here is pretty much already in a boycott anyway. As for the rest of America, they don't care. They don't care, and are going to continue buying CDs...thats why i'm not going to boycott the RIAA this or fight them on that. I'm just gonna keep sharing and downloading all I can, cause thats all I know and thats what I do best. Some things you just gotta give up because there never going to be mainstream. Have you ever met one of those Linux freaks that keeps ranting about the revolution linux is going to have and how its going to replace windows...yeah...never going to happen because that stuff is never going to be mainstream. Same with the average joe boycotting the RIAA...just drop the whole thing and go share!

[IshareManyFilez]

the "boycott" obviously does not exist. if it were results would have been seen by now.

Ok, now out of any poster on here you have to be the most ignorant, and stupid. The boycott doesen't need to exist. At least 5 million and more people share music everyday. Thats 5 million people who probaly rarely, or never buy CDS. I say, shut up about the boycott and go share.

[cjules13]

I don't care if nobody cares. But I suspect that some people do ... maybe many people.


I thought it was a decent idea and a good post. I care... and I wonder how certain people can actually speak for us all...

For those who are thinking about buying music again, and I know there are some... maybe it's not notbob or whatever, but a lot of people may be looking for ways to legally obtain what they want but still contribute as little as possible to the RIAA. This is one idea.

[FrozenShadow23]

Hey, i've got a plan: Project Quit-Whining. Here's how it works, we already know were being fucked up the ass by media conglomerates. Hell, conglomerates everywhere do it. Don't like it? Too bad. Move to some non-capitalistic country where people pretend that money doesn't move mountains. And another thing, do you seriously think that this boycott shit is gonna topple the industry and make us the winners? I seriously doubt it. I boycott, but only because I don't wanna buy. I suspect that most people are of similar mind. Take what you can get. I don't remember this much bitching and whining before napster, and there were certainly conglomerates then too. We'll live through this, I promise. I hate RIAA as much as the next guy, but there's only so much that you can actually do. I agree completely with notbob. I wish this wasn't true, but it really is. I appologize in advance for all the wrong info i'm sure I have....

/me knows he's gonna have somebody correct him.

[cheapprick]

I guess I'm not seeing the beauty of the plan.

Yes, you aren't losing money, and yes you are still getting the tunes, but that's how it's working anyway.

Buying used cd's, ripping them, and returning them sounds perfectly legal. That is, if you destroy the copy you made, otherwise it's still copyright infringement.

If copyrights don't matter too much to you anyway, why bother with this plan?

[RJ5500]

... unless the label gets a cut of all sales from the band's website. Otherwise, I think it's a good idea, too.

Well, if the band is not signed to a label to begin with and sell their music through their web site, then the RIAA can't touch a dime. Not every artist/band is part of an RIAA label (or a label at all for that matter).

Record contracts are slowly becoming obsolete (or have been obsolete) with the presence of the internet and other technology to help get artists heard around the world.

[HolyMoly]

I guess I'm not seeing the beauty of the plan. (snip) If copyrights don't matter too much to you anyway, why bother with this plan?

Because the RIAA doesn't have stooges taking down names in used-CD stores. But they do have stooges taking down IP numbers online. And, chances are (unless the previous owner was a klutz), the copied used-CD will sound better and have more consistent audio-levels from one song to another than MP3's gleened off P2P networks. In essence, the money you pay a used-CD store keeps you off the RIAA's radar screen and you end up with a superior product - while at the same time screwing the RIAA.

Well, if the band is not signed to a label to begin with and sell their music through their web site, then the RIAA can't touch a dime.

True. I was talking about labels under the industry association umbrella as opposed to indy labels. I honestly don't know whether this is true ... but I suspect that many major-label bands have their websites designed by their label's PR people since they have access to publicity photos and such and can crank out cookie-cutter websites quickly. I also suspect that these labels then bill the artists for the design work, deducting it from their royalty payments and also take a cut from online CD sales generated by the site.
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[notbob]

Because the RIAA doesn't have stooges taking down names in used-CD stores. But they do have stooges taking down IP numbers online. And, chances are (unless the previous owner was a klutz), the copied used-CD will sound better and have more consistent audio-levels from one song to another than MP3's gleened off P2P networks. In essence, the money you pay a used-CD store keeps you off the RIAA's radar screen and you end up with a superior product - while at the same time screwing the RIAA.



True. I was talking about labels under the industry association umbrella as opposed to indy labels. I honestly don't know whether this is true ... but I suspect that many major-label bands have their websites designed by their label's PR people since they have access to publicity photos and such and can crank out cookie-cutter websites quickly. I also suspect that these labels then bill the artists for the design work, deducting it from their royalty payments and also take a cut from online CD sales generated by the site.
.

the RIAA still gets money in your plan--someone still buys a disc, they get a commission--if it is resold, who cares? only one person can own the disc at a time--p2p allows hundreds to get it at once

why not just buy cds at used stores exclusively--then the RIAA never gets a cent from you

i don't understand the point of your "plan"--you still pay 16+ bucks for a cd, rip it, then sell it for 3 bucks (or whatever the used place offers) sure you still have the music, but you are still out 13 bucks

you could have downloaded it for nothing

if you are concerned about "the artist", they aren't getting paid after the initial sale either, so everybody loses out in your "plan"--the RIAA and artist each lose a sale (big hairy deal) and you lose 13 bucks

[begoodbebad]

Maybe I missed something all this time I've been sharing(and caring...cough) but isn't the point that it does not matter where you buy the CD or who you are or what you believe? At least I don't give a shit about all that. Just do a good rip and release it. One good release is all it takes. Rent it, Buy it, Steal it, Borrow it....but release it. That is the real boycott.

[HolyMoly]

the RIAA still gets money in your plan--someone still buys a disc, they get a commission--if it is resold, who cares?

Well, the RIAA still gets money with your plan. The MP3s you download don't come from thin air. Someone, somewhere, had to buy a CD, rip it, and share the MP3 ... and the RIAA took a cut from the original CD purchaser whether you download the MP3 off the web or buy the CD in a used-CD store.

P2P is a faster means of distribution but it's not risk-free. Buying a used-CD, ripping it, then returning it to the used-CD store so others can buy/rip/return it accomplishes the same thing slower ... but it has the virture of keeping you off the RIAA's radar screen.

why not just buy cds at used stores exclusively--then the RIAA never gets a cent from you

That's the whole idea ... except that you don't keep the CD. You rip it and return it as quickly as possible so others can buy/rip/return ... and on, and on, and on until the CD finally craps out. The RIAA doesn't get a penny, everyone who buys the same used-CD gets away scot free, and heck ... you support a small business in your local commuity (grin).

i don't understand the point of your "plan"--you still pay 16+ bucks for a cd, rip it, then sell it for 3 bucks (or whatever the used place offers) sure you still have the music, but you are still out 13 bucks

you could have downloaded it for nothing

Consider it paying "protection money" to the local small businessman who runs the used-CD store. Everytime you share or download, you're shooting craps with the RIAA. Most of the time, you'll win. But it might only take one loss to put you into bankruptcy court. But every time you buy a used-CD, the RIAA can't do shit ... and the more times that same used-CD is resold, the more times the RIAA gets screwed.
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Rent it, Buy it, Steal it, Borrow it....but release it. That is the real boycott.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
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[notbob]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Consider it paying "protection money" to the local small businessman who runs the used-CD store. Everytime you share or download, you're shooting craps with the RIAA. Most of the time, you'll win. But it might only take one loss to put you into bankruptcy court. But every time you buy a used-CD, the RIAA can't do shit ... and the more times that same used-CD is resold, the more times the RIAA gets screwed.
.


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thanks, i'll keep paying 0$

the RIAA makes nothing when people on IRC etc pre release (cd out before release date, usually stolen from an ad agency, radio station, or production facility) cds, which is where 90% of the REAL (not corrupted) new releases on p2p come from, your theory is still pointless

funny you should use a mafia metaphor, since giving the RIAA money is much closer to protection money than to your local businessperson.

the odds of running afoul of the RIAA are a hell of a lot lower than you make them out to be--they are closer to being somewhere in the range of being struck by lightning or winning the lottery

[origin]

remember boys and girls even when you buy cd's be cautious, Because if you buy quoted "music cd-r's" you are in-directly funding the RIAA. If you ever noticed in the store the "Music Cd-r's" tend to be a bit more expensive and come in smaller packs(nothing above 10 packs), you must understand the phylosohphy behind this the smaller the packs the more they cost the more money the RIAA can make from it. Also there is no difference in media quality actually tell you the truth I bought some data cd's (tdk's) and they worked better than the "Music Cd-r's" that are supposed to be all that better. Don't buy the hype! it costs too much :playboy good day.

l8

[Wolfie]

remember boys and girls even when you buy cd's be cautious, Because if you buy quoted "music cd-r's" you are in-directly funding the RIAA. If you ever noticed in the store the "Music Cd-r's" tend to be a bit more expensive and come in smaller packs(nothing above 10 packs), you must understand the phylosohphy behind this the smaller the packs the more they cost the more money the RIAA can make from it.

Very good point there. Plus they are not very economical if you are going through 10 CD-Rs a day like me, lol.

[HolyMoly]

Very good point there. Plus they are not very economical if you are going through 10 CD-Rs a day like me, lol.

I buy Walmart 100-packs for $28. The music on them sounds just fine and I haven't had a bad CD yet. But, I probably have more VCDs burned than MP3 CDs or audio CDs.

[origin]

Very good point there. Plus they are not very economical if you are going through 10 CD-Rs a day like me, lol.


lol, only 10 a day *hit thats too much :P. Actually I go through more than that lol. I buy my cd-r's from costco they cost 26.99+ TAX about 30 bucks out the door not a bad deal for 100 quality tdk cd-r's. Lets see the RIAA top that price for a 100 "Music cd-r's" lol

l8

[HolyMoly]

lol, only 10 a day *hit thats too much :P. Actually I go through more than that lol. I buy my cd-r's from costco they cost 26.99+ TAX about 30 bucks out the door not a bad deal for 100 quality tdk cd-r's. Lets see the RIAA top that price for a 100 "Music cd-r's" lol

l8

Of course, sometimes small-quantity packs can be cheaper. But only people like me with ancient 8x burners would use them. Look at this deal:

http://store.yahoo.com/media-superstore/9pamacdco8xl.html
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