To what extent does Zeropaid actually support ZEROpaid?

[killswitch1968]

I've gathered (perhaps incorrectly) the aim of this website is to promote the free and unencumbered transfer of all forms of digital media. Yes, free-as-in-beer access to any file on a computer.

I can understand the argument for music. The CDs seem overpriced, the organizations have a monopoly, and music shouldn't be about financial gain in the first place. It's an art, right?

What about movies? Should movies be free as well? Yes, it's another art form but it is a more perverse art generally bent on entertainment and shallowness. Not that this is a bad trait but without a profit motive who would make our beloeved, albeit trite, Hollywood blockbusters?

And finally comes software. Hardly an art form by any stretch of the imagination, people that go to University to learn programming do so in order to make money. What happens if all software is free? Being a programmer no longer becomes a viable source of income and they go in search of other work.
We all know the huge open source movement, yet most of the people developing this movement are programmers with other PROGRAMMING jobs. As computer software becomes unprofitable, no one will persue and even those who would like to enhance open source software simply cannot as they did not gain the expertise in University.

We can all agree that music will survive if it is free, and perhaps even very-low-budget movies, but what about computer software? Computer GAMES? When was the last time anyone heard of an open source video game? I can think of one.

[Aaron73153]

Downloading movies, software and video games are a way to "try before you buy" without the restrictions of demos. If I download something and like it, I buy it.

[Sephiroth]

I've gathered (perhaps incorrectly) the aim of this website is to promote the free and unencumbered transfer of all forms of digital media. Yes, free-as-in-beer access to any file on a computer.

Incorrect you are. This is a portal site as it says under the name, whose aim is to provide information about file sharing, file sharing programs, and news. This is not a warez site which you have mistaken it for.

[killswitch1968]

Incorrect you are. This is a portal site as it says under the name, whose aim is to provide information about file sharing, file sharing programs, and news. This is not a warez site which you have mistaken it for.

Perhaps that's the rubber-stamp "about" section of the website, but it's clear to me that the patrons of this website would never ever pay to use a p2p file sharing program. In any case, what's your opinion? Can free software/music/movies exist in a p2p system?

"Try before buy"? You are banking on a moral argument, and in practice I sincerely doubt people will buy $500 copies of software when they can get it for free. Case in point: Windows XP.

[Slycktom]

...and music shouldn't be about financial gain in the first place. It's an art, right?

Just because something is an art doesn’t mean you can't make money. People have a right to sell whatever they want, especially if people are willing to buy. This decision is left to the consumer market, not some ideology...

Anyway, enough people will always buy music, movies and software. None of these markets are in any real danger of collapsing.

The most serious problem for copyright holders is music. However, as long as the RIAA/MPAA stay in power you will never see them just give away their products...

[REDO]

Perhaps that's the rubber-stamp "about" section of the website, but it's clear to me that the patrons of this website would never ever pay to use a p2p file sharing program. In any case, what's your opinion? Can free software/music/movies exist in a p2p system?

"Try before buy"? You are banking on a moral argument, and in practice I sincerely doubt people will buy $500 copies of software when they can get it for free. Case in point: Windows XP.

I kinda agree, that the try before you buy arguement is garbage. If I want photoshop or 3ds max, I gotta tell ya, I aint payin 700 dollars for those. Especially when I can dl them in 10 minutes.

[killswitch1968]

Anyway, enough people will always buy music, movies and software. None of these markets are in any real danger of collapsing.


Why do you say this? Let's zoom 10-20 years into the future of p2p:

1. Vast quantities and efficient networks allow searches to be quick, easy and reliable.
2. Audio encoding has made lossless low-byte encoding a reality.
3. CD jackets, lyrics, liner notes, etc. are now bundled with audio files.
4. People can support artists by purchasing merchandise or going to concerts.

What reasons are left? People who want to have that 'warm and fuzzy feeling' of owning a CD? Perhaps these peopl exist, but I imagine they are in a miniscule minority, and certainly not enough to keep CDs afloat.

For what reasons will people buy software when they can get exact replicas of pirated ones off the networks?

Movie are different. People will pay to go to a theatre because of higher sound quality, bigger screen, etc. I don't think the MPAA has much to worry about, and I can't really say if everyone could get any movie for free that sales would decline.

As for art: I agree, people should be compensated if you want to listen to their music. All I'm saying is that even if they WEREN'T compensated music would not die out. Take China for example. When was the last time you heard a big Chinese artist? Probably never, not because they aren't making music, but rampant piracy has prevented them from being signed. Whether this is good or bad is up to debate.

[Sephiroth]

Since you have gone on and on about piracy what does it have to do with the topic?

[DemonusAE]

I have a certain opinion about software. I use to work for a university and many times got evaluation software sent in to try out. Depending on whether I was satisfied with the overall performance, I would order said package with full rights and licenses. 360 computers means I needed 360 different licenses ( depending on the package ). If something is buggy, sloppy, or inefficient, there was no way I would implement it into my network. Most of the feedback that software companies get come from the general public. Yet most of their profits come from large named companies. Chances are that sharing software over p2p networks will do more good than harm.

Here's another thing to think about. Why has technology been going through a boom in the last couple of decades. My guess is competition and rebellion. You make a toaster. It's the best toaster out there. You sell many toasters. You have no need to improve your toaster. Then a rival company makes a better toaster. Now you have to make a better toaster than theirs. Ect...ect...ect.

You make a program. Someone hacks the program. You have to make a better, more secure, more reliable program. Someone hacks that program. You have to make a even better, more reliable, more secure program. Someone hacks that program. Ect...ect...ect.

In short...p2p is one giant leap into our own evolution.

PS: Anybody think I got a little carried away?

[DudeAsInCool]

I see Zeropaid as a great resource for news about P2P and related technology, and there's a family community here from around the world that is very, very smart--all with a sense of humor. The piracy issue is a prevalent topic because that is what's in the news. Dig deeper KillsWitch, and you will find about alot of far more interesting topics. Seph, please forgive my rambling below for going off topic, but I wanted to respond to his last post

* * *
Well, Killswitch, you have a hit a hot button I think the prevalent feeling here is that the record companies have been unreasonable on a number of fronts:

1) Instead of adopting new technologies they have taken out their blunders on their best customers
2) Instead of trying to work with electronic companies and ISPs , they greedily want all the distribution for themselves
3) They're lazy and have not come up with a business model that makes sense for what they offer
4) They put out a lot of crap and overcharge
5) They are not fair to their own artists
6) And now that they are starting to adapt to the web, they put unreasonable restrictions on what can be copied and how

All this has created a potential nightmare for movies, video games and other software creators. I think a lot of people at Zeropaid would support a pay service, if it was easy to use, the quality of the product was superior, the economics were reasonable, and they were treated with respect rather than pariahs. The fact is they love music and entertainment more than the people who sell it. But I'd like to hear more ZP comments from them and see what the stalwarts say...

[aqlo]

The fact is that the big record companies, just like the other oversized corporations leeching off the public good, are going out of business and there isn't any turning back.

The only difference is that the record guys are stupid enough to blame and sue their customers even though they also cheated and stole from us for years now.

That's what makes it personal, that's why we care so much. The movie guys have a chance still to avoid some of these mistakes. If they don't, they are going up against the same wall next.

Warez has nothing to do with it, if you are a programmer and you aren't making your stuff unstealable, you are either incompetent or (as is more and more common) you are on our side and want the company you work for to fail miserably. If they treated people like people rather than interchangeable commodities they wouldn't have this problem.

[killswitch1968]

Warez has nothing to do with it, if you are a programmer and you aren't making your stuff unstealable, you are either incompetent.

I have yet to see any popular software that I could not easily find a way to pirate.

"You make a program. Someone hacks the program. You have to make a better, more secure, more reliable program."

When someone hacks a program, steps must be taken to ensure that hacking is made more difficult. This does NOT mean the quality of the product increases, but that the current product is harder to hack. Indeed you could even argue that when a company devotes resources to preventing hackers they are allocating resources that could be used to improve their product.

[shawners]

IF YOU BUY A JACKET, and it DOESNT FIT!!! YOU Can TAKE IT BACK AND GET REFUND!! if you buy the software OPEN IT, and dont like it.. YOU HAVE TO EXCHANGE IT!!! ANd you spend 500 dollars on software, it gets corrupted, you lost the serial number or key, where do you go noWWW??? AND software makers have support, but you have to pay for it!! I believe in buying the video games, AND Movies if their good enough, IF A trailer cant get me to see the movie, i wont even download it. But when you spend 8 bucks to see a movie, and its a FLOP!! you get no refund!! So when they make Photo shop so damn expensive, and you really like it, if you have DIAL Up or broadband, doesnt mean you have to go without it.. These programers who support OPEN SOURCE, agrees to making the software better with allowing anyone to contribute to the cause, if your a programmer, and you make programs for big companies, later on in life they will lay you off, or if you get too old, they will retire your butt cause your making alot more money cause of the raises. I will buy software if its under 40 dollars. ITs fair since they can reproduce it, put it in a cardboard box with the words of it on there box, no fancing colors, or fonts.. They cut cost to be affordable they would sale more, make more money. Sitting on a shelf, you buy it, they make a better product, you can upgrade some products, other you have to buy again.
P.S. Artist make music to give to the world and to express feelings, thoughts and believes. When you bottle it up, put a price tag on it, and tell the artist this is the way to get your music heard and through the world. Your not only lieing to them, your making them belive in the system they created. Websights, servers, broadband can be less money for artist then going to recording company, asking them to produce 10 million albums, and only distribute where their fan base is or cities that have the highest income or buy ratio.

[TC75580]

I kinda agree, that the try before you buy arguement is garbage. If I want photoshop or 3ds max, I gotta tell ya, I aint payin 700 dollars for those. Especially when I can dl them in 10 minutes.
Because it's too expensive for you. My version of this "try before you buy arguement" includes making decisions based on personal finances. If you like but cannot afford whatever you're downloading, you shouldn't be obliged to buy it. Therefore, software (and other media) companies should offer alternate pricings for students and home environments.

[Sephiroth]

I have yet to see any popular software that I could not easily find a way to pirate.

"You make a program. Someone hacks the program. You have to make a better, more secure, more reliable program."

When someone hacks a program, steps must be taken to ensure that hacking is made more difficult. This does NOT mean the quality of the product increases, but that the current product is harder to hack. Indeed you could even argue that when a company devotes resources to preventing hackers they are allocating resources that could be used to improve their product.


Again what the hell does that have to do with the title which you created which is: To what extent does Zeropaid actually support ZEROpaid?

Seems to me only the first two sentences you posted has anything to do with that and in the future please keep your threads on topic with the title.

[killswitch1968]

Again what the hell does that have to do with the title which you created which is: To what extent does Zeropaid actually support ZEROpaid?

Seems to me only the first two sentences you posted has anything to do with that and in the future please keep your threads on topic with the title.

ZEROpaid to me means paying nothing for file sharing applications and the media from these programs. This is why pay-per-download sites are ostracized by the community as is often seen on the news comments.

Now do the developers AND/OR THE READERS of ZP support this or not? Judging from posts and comments on news articles it seems "Zeropaid" complete and absolute, including free p2p apps, software, including misleading and loaded words like 'piracy'.

So if I am incorrect in assuming "Zeropaid" meaning paying nothing, then where is the name derived?

[aqlo]

I just read through all your posts. You have been trolling this same basic fight and nothing else the whole time you have been here. You did a shareaza review that conclusively proved you have no idea what you are talking about. ZP the website provides us a place to interact with one another and share information. ZP the population is the source of all the stuff you leech, and better things than you can imagine. You have been answered in full more than a hundred times. Yet you go on insulting us. Why don't you tell us what you really want?

* vote to close *

[DudeAsInCool]

Yet you go on insulting us. Why don't you tell us what you really want?

* vote to close *


I dont think he was trying to insult anyone--but I agree, I'm not sure what his point is...

[killswitch1968]

Why don't you tell us what you really want?

* vote to close *

Why is ZP called ZP?

Or if you prefer a more intriguing question:
Could software exist and thrive on p2p networks assuming it was all free?... But then I'll just get yelled at by mods so I'd rather you not answer that.

Or if you are interested as to why I post here:
Just stirring up hypothetical situations and forecasts of the future of p2p given a variety of "what if scenarios". I get a lot of great responses from a lot of intelligent people.
ex. what if p2p hurts CD sales?
My response: Music will thrive without having a profit motive or a need for a physical medium as record companies dissolve.


What was wrong with my Shareaza review? I like Shareaza and am still using it. I think that review was prior the addition of the new networks. It's a great application it just lacks content in terms of music. The GUI is slick, and movies/software are great. I haven't found a better app yet.


Yet you go on insulting us

Reference please.

[REDO]

Because it's too expensive for you. My version of this "try before you buy arguement" includes making decisions based on personal finances. If you like but cannot afford whatever you're downloading, you shouldn't be obliged to buy it. Therefore, software (and other media) companies should offer alternate pricings for students and home environments.

now then i actually would consider investing some money in the application. Being a software developer myself, I see the dilemna. I want ppl to buy my software, but half the software i use is isnt legit. Hypocritical I know.

[Malicious Intent]

Movies are released months later than they are in the rest of the world than they are in the UK. The reason was found that the music industry discovered that they could save money by giving us the reels that the US had finished with. They can god damn kiss my fat round arse. Seriously **** them. That's why I steal films from the internet. **** them and **** their problems. I love going to the cinema, but for as long as I get cam-jobs from the US I will watch the film here only a few days after the US. Then I wont bother to download the film as the cinema has the screen and sound system. Until then I wont go to the cinema, unless the release date is the same.

[killswitch1968]

Then I wont bother to download the film as the cinema has the screen and sound system. Until then I wont go to the cinema, unless the release date is the same.


I didn't know about the film reel gip you mentioned. I do know they are making global releases (LotR, Matrix) because of the piracy.
I like going to movies too, there's no fucking way downloading movies will ever replace the cinema experience. Besides the theatres will always have the humungous screen and sound, and isn't Matrix Revolutions being released on IMAX?

[method77]

Why is ZP called ZP?that's the 10th time you ask this question so far. Read the answers above and think. What more do you want? Filesharing should be free!!!
After all, we pay to much for the damn connection to the internet!

btw... if you want to go out and buy cds, games, software etc... GO. Noone told you to dl it. It's your choice!


EDIT: We also pay to much for electricity, PCs, cd cleaners, cd burners, plastic covers, speakers...etc...etc.... damn!

[killswitch1968]

that's the 10th time you ask this question so far. Read the answers above and think. What more do you want? Filesharing should be free!!!
After all, we pay to much for the damn connection to the internet!


Thanks method, that's all I wanted. Although no one stated in this thread "file sharing should be free", and I am of course assuming you mean non-copywrited material.
And ya, I pay around $30 US for my connection only to get calls on upload restrictions.

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

I've gathered (perhaps incorrectly) the aim of this website is to promote the free and unencumbered transfer of all forms of digital media. Yes, free-as-in-beer access to any file on a computer.

My interpretation of your thread/1st post is this: Yes, ZP's aim is proMOTE the transfer of all forms of digital media. It's aim is not to directly proVIDE the transfer or access of files that ZP members relish. It is perhaps this latter comment that Sephiroth misunderstood in your post. However, in his defense, only your first paragraph addresses your thread. The remaining four provide personal opinion about the various forms of media that would be more suitable within their own thread; relating to software and games. I do not think that anyone here would begrudge you an opinion of the questions asked. I just understand that the moderators are adamant about threads dealing specifically with what they are created for. I have opinions for the items you have outlined but I do not want to contribute to the breakdown of the thread rules by posting them here. If I have fallen short or over-stated ZP's grand design, someone please contribute to my knowledge and understanding. Thank you.

[method77]

And ya, I pay around $30 US for my connection only to get calls on upload restrictionsread my edit

[Rickio]

Why is ZP called ZP?

Or if you prefer a more intriguing question:
Could software exist and thrive on p2p networks assuming it was all free?... But then I'll just get yelled at by mods so I'd rather you not answer that.

Or if you are interested as to why I post here:
Just stirring up hypothetical situations and forecasts of the future of p2p given a variety of "what if scenarios". I get a lot of great responses from a lot of intelligent people.
ex. what if p2p hurts CD sales?
My response: Music will thrive without having a profit motive or a need for a physical medium as record companies dissolve.


What was wrong with my Shareaza review? I like Shareaza and am still using it. I think that review was prior the addition of the new networks. It's a great application it just lacks content in terms of music. The GUI is slick, and movies/software are great. I haven't found a better app yet.



Reference please.

Actually Jorge , one of the admins here said he named this site Zeropaid and at first it had nothing to do with being a p2p portal, he just liked the name and he said why but i forget hehe.

So the name has nothing to do with p2p , just your imagination running wild.

lol

peace

[Malicious Intent]

You're right killswitch1968, p2p is solving the problem of film release dates being so late in the UK. But we still arn't there yet. Look at Finding Nemo that has only just been released - I watched that months ago. Look at T3, Pirates of the Carribean, Matchstick Men and many others that are still available for download before the UK release date. It's a disgrace. I would pay for these films if I couldn't download them first as I genuingly enjoy the cinema, however over priced. Lets face it - easyjet wanted an easycinema, but the film industry refused. Easy cinema want to charge as little as 40p per customer, as they would pay the industry per person rather than for the film reel. They are as bad as the RIAA and deserve what they get. I really believe that.
Back to the orginal post, games also deserve our wrath. The boxes are a piece of plastic, the manual could have been made on my university photocopier and the game play simply hasn't been up to scratch like it used to be. I bought C&C Generals a long time ago, but still feel bitter about being charged £30 for it.
Software doesn't need arguing about. Prices are set so that companies can afford it. They don't care about domestic use, thatjust a few extra peanuts. M$ could stop piracy if they wanted. As for domestic programs, evidence has found that by making it easy to copy it becomes the standard. You think the GTA Vice City would have been such a success if everyone didn't own the original GTA? What about Nero?

[Malicious Intent]

I never knew that Rickio. At least why was this site set up if it wasn't for p2p?

[Sephiroth]

I never knew that Rickio. At least why was this site set up if it wasn't for p2p?

I believe it was orginally just a personal page about music. Then a gnutella portal since gnutella was new and there wasnt alot of info. Which Zeropaid ran a host list for a while in the beginning. Then branched out from there.

----

Which the creator of this thread is just making assumptions and generalizations by some newbie who doesnt know jack about this site and doesnt seem to know much about file sharing in general. A bunch of "What ifs" type bullshit that is pointless to talk about because they are all hypothetical. What if i closed this thread?

What if everyone gets tired of these moronic demagouges who come in here and start shit claiming they are "inciting debate" or some bullcrap and by using "common sense" which is just their excuse for just arguging with what anyone else says because they are really ignorant and have no opinions of their own. And because of that "what if" i just started kicking these losers?

[DemonusAE]

I believe it was orginally just a personal page about music. Then a gnutella portal since gnutella was new and there wasnt alot of info. Which Zeropaid ran a host list for a while in the beginning. Then branched out from there.

----

Which the creator of this thread is just making assumptions and generalizations by some newbie who doesnt know jack about this site and doesnt seem to know much about file sharing in general. A bunch of "What ifs" type bullshit that is pointless to talk about because they are all hypothetical. What if i closed this thread?

What if everyone gets tired of these moronic demagouges who come in here and start shit claiming they are "inciting debate" or some bullcrap and by using "common sense" which is just their excuse for just arguging with what anyone else says because they are really ignorant and have no opinions of their own. And because of that "what if" i just started kicking these losers?

/me claps briefly

I give Sephiroth 4 of 5 bouncing frogs for that last burst of authority:

:fire :fire :fire :fire

PS: Do you mind if I use you last post in a movie?

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

Allows an hour to slip on by
For Sephiroth's wrath you cannot deny
Heed well the words of the man with the sword
Or he'll cut you down til you remain no more.

[The Hunter]

As i feel this thread has more than run its course, Im closing it.