Building a pc

[Seraskier]

It is some time since the last "im building a pc thread" so her comes a new one
Indeed i am building my pc myself so i can get all those sweet komponets i want whitout having to pay someone else to do it.

However, the computer will mostly be used for gaming, but also for the creation of backups and vcd's and burning these.
Second it will be used to watch movies and anime, it will however not be used to watch tv on or to capture video from tv.

To continue, whit the experience gained from reding magazines over the yers and ofcourse the ZP forums and using Gamespy's budget/ultimat gamers pc
http://www.gamespy.com/hardware/june03/ugm/
http://www.gamespy.com/hardware/march03/bgm/
as a guidline these are consequently the parts i have come upp whit.


System Case: Antec SX1040BII 135.00 €
Case Fans: Antec LED fan green (34CFM. 30dB) 16.00 €
Microprocessor: AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 282.00 €
Heatsink & Fan: Thermaltake Volcano 11+ Xaxer Edition 48.00 €
Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X Deluxe ddr/agp8x/usb2/1394/sata 141.00 €
Memory: Kingston 512MB DDR 400MHz PC-3200 157.00 €
Monitor: LCD/Flat CRT Monitor ?
GraphicsCard: Ati Radeon/Nvidia GeForce ?
Hard Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB ATA133/7200 121.00 €
Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB SATA150/7200 122.80 €
DVD Drive: Lite-on LTD-163 16X-DVD 48xCD-ROM 38.00 €
CD Drive: Lite-on LTR-52327S CD-RW 52X/32X/52X 46.00 €
Floppy Drive: Samsung 3.5" 1.44MB 8.50 €
IDE & Floppy Cables: Round ATA133 45cm black 11.00 €
Round Floppy 25cm black 8.00 €
Speaker System: Logitech Z-640 (5.1) 92.00 €
Keyboard & Mouse: Logitech Cordless Elite Duo 100.00 €
Operating System: Windows XP Pro

1898.5 €


well there it is. Some have two alternatives, this is when i was uncertain of which to buy and to these i wold seek the advice of ZP forum users.

Question one:
Monitor, LCD or Flat CRT Monitor, i have always wanted a LCD monitor but when seing the prices on 15' monitors a begun to doubt. still, question a 100-200 € LCD compared to a flat CRT in the same price class, is there a grafic loss and if so how much better would the CRT/LCD be?


Question two:
Graphics Card, well i thought that one might be as with the processor were one could go whit the one step below cutting edge, but damn was i wrong, not only was ther countles different models in the 200-400€ region but also countles versions of each model. So i ask what would be a good Graphics Card. I will not be using the pc as a tv or recording sutff from tv, but i will be playing new games like HL 2 and Doom 3 and loking not to uppgrade for some time, so what would be a suitable card in the quite not most expensive area?


Question three:
ata or sata. So everyone has been on about how good the new sata hd's are but also how expensive they are, and therefor i thought i would get the ata drive but looking att the price difference (1 €) u can imagine my suprise, so i asked myself did i not only miss the introduction of the sata but also the lowering of the price? However, ata or sata?


The prices are all collected from the same site www.verkkokauppa.com and serve only to give me an idea of what the pc might cost, and that was a sum i can not afford... yet.

As i live in Finland i will limit my purchases to sites located in Finland
An Finish equivalent of Price Watch or PriceGrabber would be http://www.mbnet.fi/hintaseuranta/etusivu.asp

well that was that, now i would like som feedback on components chosen and the questions, and possible flaws/cheaper better alternatives in the list.

[cpugeniusmv]

Question 1:

the monitor....as far as i know, it is still the case that LCDs don't handle video, or moving pictures such as games very well. if you're going to be doing heavy gaming, get a nice CRT...a flat screen CRT is good.

Question 2:

i'm not really positive about this one, but i think the best one out there still is the ATI (someone will correct me if i'm wrong) and i bet there's a bunch of benchmarks on several cards at sites such as Toms Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com).

Question 3:

go with ata. the hard drives can't fill up the capacity of the ATA transportation method, much less the SATA. in a few years, i'm sure they'll be much faster...and worth getting. but for now i'd stick with ATA.

[Sephiroth]

Its not my PC so i dont really care what you put in it.

My advice is to check out some of the review sites like tomshardware which was mentioned and try to get some hands on use of things that you want and think ahead and dont waste money on add on crap that you can do at any time like round cables or additional fans until you get your system built and read the temperature settings and then if its running a bit warm then go and get them and dont buy all the parts when you dont really need too and salvage what you can from your current pc like Floppy drive and cd drive.

Make sure that all your parts are compatible with each other and look at the info of different products, their features and pick the one that you want. Your the one whos going to use it not anyone here.

[phalkon30]

I agree with cpu.

I don't really like ATI cards, but I haven't used one in a while, and I've heard the newer drivers are actually stable! So my arguements against them are weak. Nvidia all the way for me.

You'll most likely want a DX9 card. The geforce FX series is nice...but unless you get the 5900 (not cheap), ati would be your best choice. I personally just got a Geforce TI4200s, which runs about the same speed as a 4400-4600, and its great, it IS dx8, but I paid $110 for it.

[CCSDUDE]

Question 1:

the monitor....as far as i know, it is still the case that LCDs don't handle video, or moving pictures such as games very well. if you're going to be doing heavy gaming, get a nice CRT...a flat screen CRT is good.

Question 2:

i'm not really positive about this one, but i think the best one out there still is the ATI (someone will correct me if i'm wrong) and i bet there's a bunch of benchmarks on several cards at sites such as Toms Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com).

Question 3:

go with ata. the hard drives can't fill up the capacity of the ATA transportation method, much less the SATA. in a few years, i'm sure they'll be much faster...and worth getting. but for now i'd stick with ATA.


1) LCD's of quality actually make most 3d games look damn good. Brightness an contrast are, of course, less then that of a good CRT monitor though. Stick with CRT unless you have the cash to throw around on a Plasma HDTV...those kick ass for games. :P

2) Go with a mid range ATi card...something with no less then 64mb and more like 128 to keep up with the times. Doom III's min spec is like 128mb 9000 pro or some shit.. The creator said going with Nvidia will lead to decreased performance based on it's brute force method of moving textures. While the ATi with more pipelines along side all the hardware compression/decompression to help with bandwitdh issues will out do any Nvidia at this time. So I'd say ATi is your best bet as you can always upgrade ATi's buggy software later..

3) ATA till 10,000 RPM drives become a standard...you'll get more bang for your buck ala ATA...even if the cables aren't as neat...it's still better.

Skip out on that Elite Duo...I've seen reviews and used it..the keys felt mushy to me and gameplay sucked on it. I'd just grab some cheap 19 buck Logitech optical mouse and any old keyboard that doesn't have mushy keys. Total cost of the two will be less then half that. Just won't have the cordless fun.. :P

[Malakai1911]

Case/Power Supply: Antec Sonata (w/ TruePower 380w) $102
CPU: AMD Athlon64 3200+ $432
Heatsink/Fan: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu $39.87
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-K8NNXP $188
RAM: Corsair TWINX512-4000PT 500MHz $185 (two sticks, 1GB total)
Hard Drive: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Hard Drive #2: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Floppy: Generic Black, $10

Video Card: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro $346
- Monitor: NEC FP912SB 19" $290
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy, OEM $47.00
- Speakers: Altec Lansing XA3021 (2.1ch) $42

DVD Burner: NEC ND-1300A (Black Bezel) $123 (It's a combo + and -, and burns normal CD's)

Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech, whatever $50

Total Cost - 2028.41 USD (1,732.65 EUR)


That's what I would do. $129.91 more than your pieced together system.

I dunno, just giving you an idea of a kick-ass rig with top-of-the-line components.

You made an interesting ram choice. For $10 less, you can get a PAIR of faster (500 vs. 400MHz) corsair ram @ 512, giving you 1024(1Gig) instead.

edit: formatting error.

[cpugeniusmv]

Case/Power Supply: Antec Sonata (w/ TruePower 380w) $102
CPU: AMD Athlon64 3200+ $432
Heatsink/Fan: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu $39.87
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-K8NNXP $188
RAM: Corsair TWINX512-4000PT 500MHz $185 (two sticks, 1GB total)
Hard Drive: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Hard Drive #2: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Floppy: Generic Black, $10

Video Card: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro $346
- Monitor: NEC FP912SB 19" $290
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy, OEM $47.00
- Speakers: Altec Lansing XA3021 (2.1ch) $42

DVD Burner: NEC ND-1300A (Black Bezel) $123 (It's a combo + and -, and burns normal CD's)

Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech, whatever $50

Total Cost - $2028.41


That's what I would do. $129.91 more than your pieced together system.

I dunno, just giving you an idea of a kick-ass rig with top-of-the-line components.

You made an interesting ram choice. For $10 less, you can get a PAIR of faster (500 vs. 400MHz) corsair ram @ 512, giving you 1024(1Gig) instead.

edit: formatting error.

i'm drooling....i bought my rig about 9 months ago...and it's already on its way out :(

[Seraskier]

Your the one whos going to use it not anyone here.

I would disagree, i hope that others will also find these thread's useful othervise it wold be useless to post them, but hey... i cold be wrong

You made an interesting ram choice...

unfortuanetly they dont sell any corsair here and the cheapest 1gb ram was 181.78 € and the site stated the manufacturer of it was NON-ECC, and here i thought NON-ECC was a defenition and not a company. And the mobo does not suport 500 Mhz RAM. so still uncertain of which to go whit.

whilest it indeed was a drool inviting system u put upp it is also one i cannot afford.

the keys felt mushy to me and gameplay sucked

i looked upp the word "mushy" and think i know what you men, as i have had similar experience myself, yet newer palyed whit one such bord, and it is somthing i could still live whit. But if it has a negative effect on my gameplay for example, losing a game of Lan FPS because my inabillity dodge bullets whit my "mushy" keybord, i will have to go whit another bord.


changes from original system:

Monitor: Viewsonic G90F+B 19" Flat 270.84 €
no LCD for me :(
Hard Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB ATA133/7200 RPM 113 €
going whit the ata drive, but still wondering bout the smal price difference between the sata and ata.
No round cables: courtesy of Sephiroth :p
Memory: Pending
Keyboard & Mouse: Pending
Graphics Card: CLUB 3D RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB CRT+TV+DVI 359.00 €
Has enyone bought a CLUB 3D card. it was much cheaper then the SAPPHIRE 425,78€, HERCULES 419.00 € and Gigabyte 430.00 €?

[CCSDUDE]

I would disagree, i hope that others will also find these thread's useful othervise it wold be useless to post them, but hey... i cold be wrong



unfortuanetly they dont sell any corsair here and the cheapest 1gb ram was 181.78 € and the site stated the manufacturer of it was NON-ECC, and here i thought NON-ECC was a defenition and not a company. And the mobo does not suport 500 Mhz RAM. so still uncertain of which to go whit.

whilest it indeed was a drool inviting system u put upp it is also one i cannot afford.



i looked upp the word "mushy" and think i know what you men, as i have had similar experience myself, yet newer palyed whit one such bord, and it is somthing i could still live whit. But if it has a negative effect on my gameplay for example, losing a game of Lan FPS because my inabillity dodge bullets whit my "mushy" keybord, i will have to go whit another bord.


changes from original system:

Monitor: Viewsonic G90F+B 19" Flat 270.84 €
no LCD for me :(
Hard Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB ATA133/7200 RPM 113 €
going whit the ata drive, but still wondering bout the smal price difference between the sata and ata.
No round cables: courtesy of Sephiroth :p
Memory: Pending
Keyboard & Mouse: Pending
Graphics Card: CLUB 3D RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB CRT+TV+DVI 359.00 €
Has enyone bought a CLUB 3D card. it was much cheaper then the SAPPHIRE 425,78€, HERCULES 419.00 € and Gigabyte 430.00 €?



Buy 1 cheap round cable set... (1 floppy cable/1 80pin IDE) then break out some old 40pin IDE cables and round them yourself. CDR/CD/DVD drives get no where near 133mb per second and most if not all (the ones with a huge on drive cache - like 4-8megs would probably get a bit of a gain using 80's) CD drives will never make it past what a 40 pin cable can give. So rounding them with a bit of heat shrink or tape is best price wise. Also if your wondering what the difference is between 40/80 pin IDE then read on...lol

40 - 40 signals..
80 - Signal/ground/signal/ground all the way up the line to reduce interference and jack up the transfer rates. I'm not up to date on how SATA breaks down electronics wise so that may be a wiser choice down the line (even at 7200 rpm).

Anyway...by 'mushy' I mean they keys don't have a quality press cap in each key.

And by that I mean the cheaper process of making the spring back action are suction cup like keys with electronically conductive pads on the underside. Better keyboards use a very dome like cup and a thin stiff pad while cheap keyboards usually use a very sharp angled thin cup and a semi-soft pad.

Gaming related to such things would be hitting < then going ^ then hitting < again really fast only to find your getting half the feedback on the key. Which usually fucks the hell outta your reflex and timing. It's also annoying as hell to use whilst typing.

Go for a logitech without the wireless as they tend to cut costs to lower the price of the gemmick cordless. Go for logitech on the mouse as well...the scroll wheel on my bj69 (yes..as I've stated in another thread that is the real model number) has held up well along side the clicking mechanism and the optics on this mouse are very responsive.

[g-smooth2k]

Originally Posted by Malakai1911
Case/Power Supply: Antec Sonata (w/ TruePower 380w) $102
CPU: AMD Athlon64 3200+ $432
Heatsink/Fan: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu $39.87
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-K8NNXP $188
RAM: Corsair TWINX512-4000PT 500MHz $185 (two sticks, 1GB total)
Hard Drive: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Hard Drive #2: Western Digital 120GB SE (WD1200JB) $95.77
Floppy: Generic Black, $10

Video Card: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro $346
- Monitor: NEC FP912SB 19" $290
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy, OEM $47.00
- Speakers: Altec Lansing XA3021 (2.1ch) $42

DVD Burner: NEC ND-1300A (Black Bezel) $123 (It's a combo + and -, and burns normal CD's)

Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech, whatever $50

Total Cost - $2028.41


That's what I would do. $129.91 more than your pieced together system.

I dunno, just giving you an idea of a kick-ass rig with top-of-the-line components.

You made an interesting ram choice. For $10 less, you can get a PAIR of faster (500 vs. 400MHz) corsair ram @ 512, giving you 1024(1Gig) instead.

edit: formatting error.

Good Processor AMD Athlon 64 3200+
Good Choice Western Digital but go with the 160GB SE (WD1600JB) $105 @ pricewatch.com
Excellent Video Card ATI 9800 Pro
Great Monitor NEC FP912SB 19"
Love the Sound Card Sound Blaster Audigy
Speakers are Good Choice Altec Lansing
Can get a Logitech z-560 5.1ch for about $50
Keyboard / Mouse another good choice

[Malakai1911]

Iunfortuanetly they dont sell any corsair here and the cheapest 1gb ram was 181.78 € and the site stated the manufacturer of it was NON-ECC, and here i thought NON-ECC was a defenition and not a company. And the mobo does not suport 500 Mhz RAM. so still uncertain of which to go whit.

whilest it indeed was a drool inviting system u put upp it is also one i cannot afford.



That sucks no corsair. Also, if you get faster ram, it will work, but just at the highest speed your motherboard will support. NON-ECC is a definition, so its prolly generic ram.

Seems prices over there suck. And can you avoid VAT by having a friend or family member in the US ship you all the components, or something?


BTW,

1,732.65 EUR for the one I pieced together.
1,898.50 EUR for the one you pieced together.

www.xe.com (currency conversion)

[Induna]

There's a big price jump with the higher end Athlon XP's. A 2600+ (where I live) costs around £65, a 2800+ is £105, and a 3000+ is £165. I'm not gonna even bother with the 3200+ look at this link
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/products/story/0,24330,3428746,00.html
all the top end Athlons run at 2.2Ghz. If you want a true 3Ghz system then get a P4 with a higher FSB too.

A 3.06Ghz Pentium 4 outperforms a 3200+.

Graphics cards, the fastest one is the new GeForce FX 5900 but you have to pay silly money for that. Like £500 silly. You can pick up a 5600 for just over £100.


As you can see, bang for buck the 2600+ is more value for money than the other three. I recently built a system with a 2600+ , 512MB of PC3200 DDR RAM and a GeForce FX5600 card. I tried Unreal Tournament 2003 and it played beautifully. No slowdown whatsoever.


I ran TMPG and it encoded a film in real time. i.e. If a disc was 55 mins it encoded it in 55mins. In some cases it was quicker.

Of course if you want the fastest and bestest computer you have to pay a premium but I prefer not to. You could save yourself half the cash for a just a slightly lower spec P.C. But not that much lower.

[Malakai1911]

all the top end Athlons run at 2.2Ghz. If you want a true 3Ghz system then get a P4 with a higher FSB too.

A 3.06Ghz Pentium 4 outperforms a 3200+.

Speaking of graphics cards. The fastest one is the new GeForce FX 5900 [...]

Uh, lets not get into debates but...

AMD's Athlon 64 dominates the P4 3.2C.

And ATI's Radeon 9800 Pro dominates the GeForce FX 5900, and if he wants nice high FPS in HL2, he will stick with ATI...

[Induna]

OK, but we was talking about the Athlon XP against the P4, not the Athlon64.

Reason being the price doesn't justify buying one, yet.

[lizardsforall]

I love the smell of 64-bit in the morning. the p4 may have hyperthreading but it is no match. Either some of the older ATI or nVidia models will give you what you need without costing you every cent.

Edit - Induna, missed your post

[Malakai1911]

OK, but we was talking about the Athlon XP against the P4, not the Athlon64.

Reason being the price doesn't justify buying one, yet.


$588 Pentium 4 3.2GHz 800
$428 Athlon 64 3200

I'd say that puts it in quite a nice price point. It's cheaper than the P4 3.2C by $160.

Plus the overall cost of the one I posted, was still less than the one he posted.

[Seraskier]

That sucks no corsair. Also, if you get faster ram, it will work, but just at the highest speed your motherboard will support. NON-ECC is a definition, so its prolly generic ram.

hm, i did not know that.
And generic is...?



BTW,

1,732.65 EUR for the one I pieced together.
1,898.50 EUR for the one you pieced together.

...sh*t



As you can see, bang for buck the 2600+ is more value for money than the other three. I recently built a system with a 2600+ , 512MB of PC3200 DDR RAM and a GeForce FX5600 card. I tried Unreal Tournament 2003 and it played beautifully. No slowdown whatsoever.

ah so i will most likely go whit the 2600+ then
they sell a AMD ATHLON XP 2600+ BARTON 1.917GB 333MHZ 512 KB
for 134.00 €
...god they misspelled Ghz


And ATI's Radeon 9800 Pro dominates the GeForce FX 5900, and if he wants nice high FPS in HL2, he will stick with ATI...

how much impact does the processor speed have on how well new games run?

[Nothingface5384]

i thought eec stood for error correction checking or something..but i dont think eec has anything to do with generic sticks lol..its just a type..like registered memory and such
omg...ah1!!!!:tol

/me is also getting ready to build a system..well buy the parts ;-)
gonna need a comp geared up for my multimeida courses..and gameing...which the family 866 p3 most likely wont be able to handle :tilted

[Induna]

$588 Pentium 4 3.2GHz 800
$428 Athlon 64 3200

I'd say that puts it in quite a nice price point. It's cheaper than the P4 3.2C by $160.

Plus the overall cost of the one I posted, was still less than the one he posted.



I'm not disputing what you're saying, if you can afford a $2000 system then that's great. I'm just saying I wouldn't pay that much for a processor, whether it was made by AMD or Intel. You can call me cheap if you want, I don't care ;)
I just don't like being ripped-off.

Edit:$2000

[CCSDUDE]

I'm not disputing what you're saying, if you can afford a $2000 system then that's great. I'm just saying I wouldn't pay that much for a processor, whether it was made by AMD or Intel. You can call me cheap if you want, I don't care ;)
I just don't like being ripped-off.

Edit:$2000

I'm with you man...I've never bought state of the art parts and the price difference is insane...

74 bucks compared to over 180 with maybe a 2% boost in performance...

Who needs that? Not me...not anyone who's playing state of the art games either. The jump will almost never justify the gain...

I'm happily running a XP 2500+ Barton and it does great...in a number of ways. Runs cooler then my old Pally 2500+ even OC'ed past the Pally's 2ghz rating/looks neat (different die color an all...lol)/has 512kb of L2 cache as opposed to 384...it's a slight difference but you can tell.

Hell I still build systems outta old stock P3's based on how well they hold up with little fan power keeping them cool...and they still encode live video without frame dropping. (P4's and almost all intels kicked the fuck outta AMD in the media encoding department so take note...)

You'll never need the best as it'll just be outdated in a week or two...

So

Barton 2600+
Some quality DDR thats been tested to run at 400mhz
A good mobo that'll allow FSB changes independently of the DDR...
Some good WD SE drives.. As I said before, I was able to get my hands on two 160gb drives for dirt cheap via warehouse places.


Nothin' like OC'ing a nice Barton then throttling the hell outta some quality ram at CAS 2 my friend.. :) I broke 525mhz easy with some Corsair...hit a bit of a snag with active cooling at 550...

So look around...check out prices and specs on a bunch of different sites. In the end a little work and a lotta luck will save you some cash and get you a system that works great yet didn't break the bank.

Phalkon knows all about being 'thrifty' ...lol He could show afew tips if he's got the time.

Uh in short...don't jump the gun on buying parts as they may come down in price faster then you think. :wings

[phalkon30]

What, making hard drive mounts out of cardboard? hanging fans in optimal places with braising rod and chicken wire? Dryer hose to route more cool air in? etc.

I call that being cheap, but thrifty sounds better. :)

Even if you're not into overclocking now, get something that you can overclock. When I built mine I didn't think stuff like that would matter, I'm regretting it now. My CPU is basicly locked, can't do voltmod on anything...but I can change the FSB. WOO HOOO.

[Seraskier]

they sell a AMD ATHLON XP 2600+ BARTON 1.917GB 333MHZ 512 KB
for 134.00 €
how much impact does the processor speed have on how well new games run?

one can also get a AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ BARTON 1833 MHZ BOX 106.00 €
or AMD ATHLON XP 2800+ BARTON 2083 MHZ BOX for 213.00 €

so i ask... again, will i get the most out of my HL2 gaming session if i instead get the 2500+ compared to the 2600+ and if not will the increase when using the 2800+ justify the price difference of 79/107 € from the 2600+/2500+ ?

second, same qustion but Kingston 512MB DDR 400MHz PC-3200, or 1024Mb DDR 400Mhz... NON-ECC? price difference 52 €

i am begining to strain the budget as it is, but adding som 107 € and instead of the 2500+ get the 2800+ is still not imposible if it means notable better gaming experience.

[isus]

mwahaha.

if i was gonna build a pc, i would build it and it would be silent.

abso-friggin-lutely silent.

i.e.: not even a hard drive motor to make a sound.

unfortunately, what you would need to replace a hard drive would cost $600 (if you wanted to run winxp at least) and only move at 6mB/s.

but hey, i think it's worth it.

with the mobo (nano-itx), it'll probably be the smallest complete computer ever (well, not ever, but it'll be the smallest one made custom. kinda. haha)

the hard drive is... *drum roll please*... compact flash. mwahaha.

more details in a new thread later.

[phalkon30]

In my experience, the RAM is a bigger factor than your processor speed. My dads P4 2.4ghz gives almost identitical FPS with the TI4200 on my 1.5ghz AMD. I added more ram, and the FPS went up, games load A TON faster. I was able to turn up options higher with more RAM also.

My AMD Athlon is 1.5ghz, which is compareable to a 1.8ghz P4. 600mhz doesn't make that much of a difference in my experience. Pretty much anything past 2.0 ghz will be all you need, plus 768 meg RAM and you're set.

Isus, check out http://www.litepc.com/ if you want to run windows off of a compact flash card. You only need a 9 meg footprint for 98!

[isus]

Isus, check out http://www.litepc.com/ if you want to run windows off of a compact flash card. You only need a 9 meg footprint for 98!

yea, i like their products.

but i need windows server 2003 so i can use iis6. i hate apache.

besides, i would have very little use for a computer that can't handle more than 6mB/s transfer rates.

although i did find a store that sold those toshiba 1.8" hard drives. they're quiet, and i might be forced into buying one, bc $600 is quite a bit to spend on a 2gb hard drive.

[shawners]

Why not find the specs out for Alienware and use that to go with in building a good gaming system?? I know its priced at 3000 or more.

[CCSDUDE]

yea, i like their products.

but i need windows server 2003 so i can use iis6. i hate apache.

besides, i would have very little use for a computer that can't handle more than 6mB/s transfer rates.

although i did find a store that sold those toshiba 1.8" hard drives. they're quiet, and i might be forced into buying one, bc $600 is quite a bit to spend on a 2gb hard drive.

Go solidstate...lol

Last I checked 500 megs in such a thing costs about 10,000...probably cheaper now but not that cheap...

Be awsome to have a totally quiet system.. A mix of heatpipes water cooling no fans except one on the watercooling set up..and thats far far away with a bigger pump far far away. You'd watercool gpu/cpu/psu/hdd and maybe a few PCI cards...

Maybe make the whole case outta aluminum with fins and shit....lol I know Zalman already tried creating a case/heatsink combo thing and it failed based on cost and how much heat it pulled...

[isus]

Go solidstate...lol

Last I checked 500 megs in such a thing costs about 10,000...probably cheaper now but not that cheap...

Be awsome to have a totally quiet system.. A mix of heatpipes water cooling no fans except one on the watercooling set up..and thats far far away with a bigger pump far far away. You'd watercool gpu/cpu/psu/hdd and maybe a few PCI cards...

Maybe make the whole case outta aluminum with fins and shit....lol I know Zalman already tried creating a case/heatsink combo thing and it failed based on cost and how much heat it pulled...
lol. you make it sound really difficult. but its not. the eden cpu line (which is what they use for mini-itx) are mostly fanless... the more powerful ones do need a hsf, but the slower ones don't. if i don't need a heatsink, i wanna get the 2gb flash card, and make it silent. but if it does need a hsf, i will just buy a regular 3.5" hd probably. cheap, and probably much quieter than the hsf.

i still wanna know whats gonna happen with the psu.

[CCSDUDE]

lol. you make it sound really difficult. but its not. the eden cpu line (which is what they use for mini-itx) are mostly fanless... the more powerful ones do need a hsf, but the slower ones don't. if i don't need a heatsink, i wanna get the 2gb flash card, and make it silent. but if it does need a hsf, i will just buy a regular 3.5" hd probably. cheap, and probably much quieter than the hsf.

i still wanna know whats gonna happen with the psu.

You'd have to go miniITX with a miniATX psu and a good ole VIA 800-1ghz chip...on socket 370 of course...once thats done you can now hear the HD and CDR drives! LOL

No way to make a totally silent system...unless you watercool/use solid state memory for everything and ditch all CD drives for a wireless network or LAN to get files..from another 'loud' system far far away..

Unless you ditched everything and dunked the whole rig in non-conductive super cooling shit...and even that would have to be pumped around. Plus the HDD needs it's air hole to balance pressure which kills that...always back to solid state with watercooling everywhere (PSU too) and the pump/fan/radiator comobo would have to be far away...

I have a cheap answer...BUY SOME NOISE BLOCKING HEADPHONES! I've got my Koss T model phones and they block almost everything...with sound being kicked out I can't even hear the phone.

[REDO]

are you gonna get regular drive cables, or get the round nylon ones? Those help in cooling the PC because they are round, and do not take up as much space as the ribbon cables, plus they are much cooler looking. They are about 25 dollars for the HDD ones, and about 15 for the floppy one. So if you want top o' the line, add 40 dollars.

[Seraskier]

so this is how the system will look

System Case: Antec SX1040BII 135 €
Microprocessor: AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ BARTON 106 €
Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X Deluxe 124 €
Memory: 1024Mb DDR 400Mhz NON-ECC 181 €
Monitor: Viewsonic G90F+B 19" Flat 270 €
Graphics Card: CLUB 3D RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB 359 €
Hard Drive: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120GB 113 €
DVD Drive: Lite-on LTD-163 16X-DVD 48xCD-ROM 38 €
CD Drive: Lite-on LTR-52327S CD-RW 52X/32X/52X 46 €
Speaker System: Logitech Z-640 (5.1) 92 €

all and all it should be some 1600 €

[Malakai1911]

Looks pretty good. (too bad the prices over there arent as good, though.)

[isus]

You'd have to go miniITX with a miniATX psu and a good ole VIA 800-1ghz chip...on socket 370 of course...once thats done you can now hear the HD and CDR drives! LOL

No way to make a totally silent system...unless you watercool/use solid state memory for everything and ditch all CD drives for a wireless network or LAN to get files..from another 'loud' system far far away..

Unless you ditched everything and dunked the whole rig in non-conductive super cooling shit...and even that would have to be pumped around. Plus the HDD needs it's air hole to balance pressure which kills that...always back to solid state with watercooling everywhere (PSU too) and the pump/fan/radiator comobo would have to be far away...

I have a cheap answer...BUY SOME NOISE BLOCKING HEADPHONES! I've got my Koss T model phones and they block almost everything...with sound being kicked out I can't even hear the phone.

you're a tad off in some of the details:
nano-itx is smaller than mini-itx. and mini-itx, unless you go with an old 500mhz cpu, needs a heatsink. however, since they use bga for the nano-itx chip (at 1ghz), it doesn't look like it will need a heatsink. not yet at least.

the powersupply... i think this will run off of a regular ol' 5v rail. and hushpc makes a power brick with connectors for their pc's. all you hafta do is get that. so no fan on the cpu, no real hard drive, and i wasn't gonna put in a cd-rom permanently anyway. it's a server with integrated graphics, i don't intend to play doom3 on it or half-life 2 :-P just hook up one long enough to install windows, and bam, all done.

noise blocking headphones aren't all that cheap. and i dont like headphones. well, unless you get those 5.1 ones from zalman or whoever. but they aren't noise blocking. but i also need to hear other things, like you said, the phone, microwave, doorbell, etc etc.

[CCSDUDE]

you're a tad off in some of the details:
nano-itx is smaller than mini-itx. and mini-itx, unless you go with an old 500mhz cpu, needs a heatsink. however, since they use bga for the nano-itx chip (at 1ghz), it doesn't look like it will need a heatsink. not yet at least.

the powersupply... i think this will run off of a regular ol' 5v rail. and hushpc makes a power brick with connectors for their pc's. all you hafta do is get that. so no fan on the cpu, no real hard drive, and i wasn't gonna put in a cd-rom permanently anyway. it's a server with integrated graphics, i don't intend to play doom3 on it or half-life 2 :-P just hook up one long enough to install windows, and bam, all done.

noise blocking headphones aren't all that cheap. and i dont like headphones. well, unless you get those 5.1 ones from zalman or whoever. but they aren't noise blocking. but i also need to hear other things, like you said, the phone, microwave, doorbell, etc etc.
Never heard of 'nano-itx"

Also if your implying that *any* 1ghz cpu can last without a heatsink (didn't make that clear) then all I can say is "someone is a tad nutty". :wings

Not even the VIA can run at 800 without a stock heatsink + fan. No way to cool such a system without at least two fans in place of watercooling (PSU will always need a fan and any cpu worth a damn needs one). Unless the whole case is one giant heatsink with heatpipes...cost to much and isn't really all that good.

As for those Zalman headphones...pff what crap. I'm still using a mid end pair of Koss ones from the early 90's covered in tape with loads of heatshrink on the wires lol (you can guess what happened...rip...solder...rip...solder...)

Does suck to miss hearing your micro dingin' or the phone tho... :mellow

[isus]

www.nano-itx.de

it's not out yet, but there is speculation that it will be fanless. i don't know, via is not the best place to figure this stuff out.

lol @ "rip solder rip solder".

[CCSDUDE]

www.nano-itx.de

it's not out yet, but there is speculation that it will be fanless. i don't know, via is not the best place to figure this stuff out.

lol @ "rip solder rip solder".
lmfao...you know this set of phones has more war wounds then any other I've come across... I even improved upon them! Electrical tape on the cups (originally this funky creased crap that felt like shit) and a full line replacement. Complete with hand made stopper studs (dime vs dremel... heh + grommet) and some monster cabling soldered on as nice as ya please with some insanely expensive solder made in the UK).

I love these things...they taught me to solder well and pushed me to buy a quality iron that uses copper tips.

Fixed a few mobos with it...few volt mods as well...and one ATi got graced by it..

Anyway I doubt nano-ITX will go fanless..even VIA's coolest chip is comparable to a same spec PIII so some air movement is needed. Without it the sink will just keep getting hot..then hotter..the thermal (if it isn't a TIM pad) will slowly crust up then the crusting around the edges will eventually allow the inner area to crust because of heat that ain't being transferred which will keep repeating itself till the chips contact is shit (like a grain of rice or smaller sized 'good' contact area)...couple that with a small heatsink that can't really remove heat based on air being stagnant..may last a year or so but I'm sure you'd start seeing system problems past that.

LOL Even a classic P1 that runs @ 166 overclocked past 200mhz will get burning hot to the touch....imagine what a newer chip would do esp. with a smaller die size...

[isus]

but that p1 probably runs on... oh lord, i dunno... a .19 core. and it doesn't use bga, which keeps voltages low or somethin (haven't read up on it yet...). i just can't wait.

besides, its only a server that will sit under a desk all day so the mean techs won't find it and d/c it :-P (my school has a whooole set of static ip's for the whole school system. it's nice) if it needs a fan, then fuck it, im not spending $600 on a silent, 2gb compact flash card and another $60 for the adaptor. i'll just find a 2.5" drive for $100 :-P

[CCSDUDE]

but that p1 probably runs on... oh lord, i dunno... a .19 core. and it doesn't use bga, which keeps voltages low or somethin (haven't read up on it yet...). i just can't wait.

besides, its only a server that will sit under a desk all day so the mean techs won't find it and d/c it :-P (my school has a whooole set of static ip's for the whole school system. it's nice) if it needs a fan, then fuck it, im not spending $600 on a silent, 2gb compact flash card and another $60 for the adaptor. i'll just find a 2.5" drive for $100 :-P
Voltage on newer shit will always be lower based on the gate size...smaller gate - faster open/close using less power. The die size makes up for that....and the fact that all the gates are moving very very fast...

That old P1 sucked the juice but it had a better contact area plus the gates weren't opening nor closing as fast...

*When I say 'gates' I'm talking about all those super tiny lovely lil transistors moving like a bat outta hell - it isn't 'gate' in the non-electrical sense*

Anyway if you do get a nano...make sure it has at least 3 low rpm fans (one front hopefully across any HDD you have in it one on the back along with the PSU's sucking out and one on the cpu).

Anything less and you'll end up with problems down the line...HD dying would be first up on my list...

[isus]

lol at your explanation of the gate.

reminds me of a comic strip where the guy is explaining how little men open up the garage door when they press the button on the garage door opener.

"so you're saying my cpu has a bajillion little people inside, just opening and closing little gates, and to make sure they do their work, we electrocute them?"

[CCSDUDE]

lol at your explanation of the gate.

reminds me of a comic strip where the guy is explaining how little men open up the garage door when they press the button on the garage door opener.

"so you're saying my cpu has a bajillion little people inside, just opening and closing little gates, and to make sure they do their work, we electrocute them?"
HAHAHA.... This one chick I chill with on occasion (one of the few stoner girls that matched me joint for joint) came up with some funny shit like that..

We were discussing some computer shit (geeky chicks rule!) and somehow she landed "those damn lil green men in my HDD keep putting shit in the wrong places! I think I need to motivate them with a nice swift kick in the ass."

/me doubled over and almost spilled the next pile whilst rolling

Btw, a cattle prod will speed those lil gate fuckers up...nail pin 6 and 13.... :wings

[isus]

HAHAHA.... This one chick I chill with on occasion (one of the few stoner girls that matched me joint for joint) came up with some funny shit like that..

We were discussing some computer shit (geeky chicks rule!) and somehow she landed "those damn lil green men in my HDD keep putting shit in the wrong places! I think I need to motivate them with a nice swift kick in the ass."

/me doubled over and almost spilled the next pile whilst rolling

Btw, a cattle prod will speed those lil gate fuckers up...nail pin 6 and 13.... :wings
lol. wouldn't life be interesting if all our 'electronics' were actually filled with little people inside?

[CCSDUDE]

lol. wouldn't life be interesting if all our 'electronics' were actually filled with little people inside?
Then the myths about kicking shit to make it work ala Spike in Cowboy Bebop would actually ring true...

*Whack* wake up you lazy fucking CPU gnomes!
Gnome: Ugh that guys is such a prick...I liked our old non-hax0r owner....

[isus]

honest question, why does kicking something that's not working fix it (i mean, if it doesn't break it of course)

[CCSDUDE]

honest question, why does kicking something that's not working fix it (i mean, if it doesn't break it of course)
Easy...lol

Something isn't contacting something else in the circuit...kick it a few times and bam back in action.

Could be cuz ya dropped it before or a solder connection was weak or wasn't gritty enough to accept the solder...or what have ya...

[isus]

haha. never thought of it like that. i thought it was kind of like, a warning...

see, when you kick it, the item in question thinks to itself "oh shit, i better stop fuckin around with this guy, or he's gonna replace me with a hal9000!", and so, it starts working again.

[Seraskier]

Most of the stuff came today, ill be picking it upp later att the post office, (woo hoo) the rest keybord/mouse monitor, graphic card, processor i'll get from a local store

Aditional changes: i went whit the non boxed processor as i will need noor the fan, the pads ore the garantie, and ill get the Antec PLUS1080AMG case instead.

[Lucian]

I suggest you get the 64bit Athlon.

However if you really are just worried about gaming you should get a Pentium 4.

[Seraskier]

as much as i would have wonted a pentium system (i am more of a Pentium fan then AMD) and they are no doubt better, amd is much cheaper, and i seriusly can not afford 64bit

[isus]

considering the fact that amd can't make enough of the chips out of one wafer to bring costs down until they move to 90nm, i won't even be considering an athlon64.

however, i might start building a new comp on around an xp3200, and then unlock the multiplir on that and see how high she can go ;)

[Seraskier]

however, i might start building a new comp on around an xp3200, and then unlock the multiplir on that and see how high she can go ;)

Sweet...
Still it willl take som cooling to keep it stabel

[isus]

yea. but i think in the middle of winter, all i would need to do to keep it cool would be run a little bit of ductwork from my pc to my window and put a fan in it ;)

that or get one of the phase change coolers from frozencpu.com. i think they are having a ginormous sale over at ebay, although i didn't check prices on the best ones.

[Seraskier]

i am hoping that my pc will generate som serius heat as ther is no denying that it is FRIGGIN COLD in my house, (it snowed yesterday) so i will place it next to my bed, and be very very warm. :)

the window thing was a wery god ide, having two fans sucking 30- degres celsius into the tower and one will have onself som fine cooling.

one more question of processors. They just rased the price for xp 2500 barton to 103 € (asholes) which is then the same as the 2600 barton and ther is esentialy no price differens, so i ask which is better, ill be looking to do some oc'ing and have so fare gotten the idea that 2500+ wold be better for that, but i cold be wrong?

[CompuGeek]

one more question of processors. They just rased the price for xp 2500 barton to 103 € (asholes) which is then the same as the 2600 barton and ther is esentialy no price differens, so i ask which is better, ill be looking to do some oc'ing and have so fare gotten the idea that 2500+ wold be better for that, but i cold be wrong?

IMHO, you should stick with the 2500+. If for no other reason than that it is built on the new Barton core and has more cache than the older 2600+. (those AMD model numbers don't always mean a whole hell of a lot).

Also, newer processor core designs (i.e., the 2500+ Barton) tend to have more overclocking headroom than older ones (i.e., 2600+ Thoroughbred-B).

:sw

[CCSDUDE]

IMHO, you should stick with the 2500+. If for no other reason than that it is built on the new Barton core and has more cache than the older 2600+. (those AMD model numbers don't always mean a whole hell of a lot).

Also, newer processor core designs (i.e., the 2500+ Barton) tend to have more overclocking headroom than older ones (i.e., 2600+ Thoroughbred-B).

:sw
Actually I've noticed the opposite... My 2400+ TB OC'ed really well while my 2500+ hit the wall much sooner even with better cooling + a lower normal operation temp.

Might have gotten a bad die yield or something though...

Isus, you couldn't do that duct thing... The mix of hot/cool air plus moisture would lead to some spark fun...

If you really did that you'd have no need for a fan in or on the duct. Just have a filter on both ends of the duct (some nice wavy ones like off a heating system) and the system set up to create a nice vacuum effect. You'd need to have some sort of fixture on the end of the duct going outside to keep snow flakes an such down and changing the filters would be a weekly thing. lol Wouldn't be a big deal if you bought a a 20 some dollar box of wire in forced wavy heating system filters an cut them to size...could probably make like 15-20 per filter and a box has like 10 or 12...

If you did it right you'd have a near perfect ratio of air movement to moisture content. It would come out to be almost like having a almost dry room with the AC going...you could get into the 30c range with a stock AMD heatsink in such conditions. I've done it in some major AC cooled rooms... awsome for OC'ing. :)

[isus]

well, if you could get the very cold air into the case in such a way that it could mix without causing condensation on any parts, it wouldn't blow anything up :-P

the way i would think to do that would be have a little box in the pc, closed off, that is rotating cold air inside. in a case where the temp is like 80 or something, against the 30 or whatever degree air, the little box would have condensation, the air would lose heat/get colder, and all you would hafta do would be wipe out the bottom of the case of the drips from the heat exchanger doohickey.

[TheFonz]

hey ccs
good to see emma''s back

My tidbit: I think something is up with the Athlon 64's
I'll stick to my intel prescotts once it comes out

[CompuGeek]

Actually I've noticed the opposite... My 2400+ TB OC'ed really well while my 2500+ hit the wall much sooner even with better cooling + a lower normal operation temp.

Might have gotten a bad die yield or something though...

That makes sense. The Tbred is a sure thing for OCing.

From what I've read it can be really hit or miss with the 2500+ Bartons.
It seems at least the first batch of them vary a lot on whether they OC well.

:sw

[CCSDUDE]

That makes sense. The Tbred is a sure thing for OCing.

From what I've read it can be really hit or miss with the 2500+ Bartons.
It seems at least the first batch of them vary a lot on whether they OC well.

:sw
Yeah I still love my 2500+ though.. it gets the 'jizzzob' done. :gj

Isus, exactly my point :P If you rigged up a thermally conductive box on the case side of the duct and covered it with some sort of material that would allow it's coolness to pass through whilst sucking up any condensation it would work well. However I doubt it would work as good as a free flowing pull...

Give it a try with some cardboard...you know replace the cases side with a cardboard cut out and duct to that see what ya get...

Emma's back an badder then ever, Chipper! W00t! lmfao

[Andy_TRN]

I see you guys spend a lot of cash on a new pc....

I bought one 3-4 months ago:
-AMD 2400+ @ 2.1ghz (AMD 3000+ runs at 2167mhz right? why even bother buying it..)
-512 DDR @ 333mhz (400mhz is rather unstable on some motherboards like the MSI 865PE Neo2)
-A white ugly ass case which costed me €35
-KT3V mobo
-Ati Radeon 9000 128mb
-Q-Tec AMD oc-cooler
-40GB Maxtor 7200 plus 8

And this all came to a total of €535
I would never ever pay more then €1000 for a pc. You got to admit this was a good buy, yes I built it myself.

Ah, and I already had a 21 inch Philips monitor before that...which costed me €180 :P

[isus]

bc the amd 3000 is faster. duh? but in your logic, why bother buying a puny 2.1ghz amd when you have the powerful 2.4ghz intel p4 and 2.8 and 3.0, and 3.2?

it's not about the number, its about the other crap inside.

the extra cache on a 3000 helps make it faster than a 2400.

and did you buy an ati radeon 9000, or 9000 pro?

and yes, most of us spend money on our computers, bc there isn't much else that helps us balance out the economy like a good old fashioned pc.

[isus]

o, i forgot to mention one thing...

the amd 3000 and the 2400 are different cores. while i have no idea what they did to change them bc i never read up on it, i'm sure the core of the 3000 was modified enough to let it easily overtake the 2400 and the rest even with a minor decrease in cpu frequency.

[Andy_TRN]

Well, it's quite obvious why I don't go pentium... I'm a poor student :)

Example:

Athlon XP 2400+/2,0GHz 85,90

P4 2,4GHz / 512KB S478 BOX 800 FSB 199,90

Now you've seen the radical differences in price....

P4 2,6GHz / 512KB S478 BOX 800 FSB 242,90

And now the biggest joke:

P4 3.2 GHz / 512KB S478 BOX 800 FSB 674,90

That's more then my entire pc costs!

Point made.

[phalkon30]

Yeah, I paid about $450 for my computer with a 19" monitor, the only thing I reused was my TNT2 32 meg video card.

1800+ $70
Asus A7S333 $80
40GB WD $60
512meg DDR2100 $80
19" CTX Monitor $150
Bland ATX Case w/pwr supply $35

Since then I've added a new power supply, new heatsync (fans died), a new case, and a used Ti4200s. My machine still kicks ass at the LAN partys and keeps up with machines that were over $1000, and mines a year old.

[Tw33k]

AMD IS GOD, Intel can go suck their 32-bit thumb.
The AMD Athlon 64 +3200 is only $350.

I can't believe you went with the freaking ati, nvida rules!
You should of gotten the FX 5900!

[Seraskier]

hmm 350€ for ati 9800 pro and around 400€ for FX 5900 and the cheapest fx ultra was 438€ and the rest 5-600€, i just wounder why one would go whit ati.

the pc i use now is a 500 Mhz Celeron Fujitsu Siemens whit 128 mb ram of unknown type, a VOODOO 3 pci card, and yes it's GREAT, and now that i uppgrade i can use... NOTHING, yes so i cold use the kyebord and mouse and so on but the cash gain wold be little and then nowone could use the celeron pc, so it makes little sense, but i will not make that mistake again, the Antec case for example (which i got yesterday, and is friggin HUGE) will last for meny meny uppgrades.

And ofcourse, whilst the price is reaching 1600€ i am paying it to help the world economy. :)

[Sephiroth]

Your just going to do what you want anyways because its your computer and your money. You dont have to ask premission here for every little thing or get a bunch of people spending your money to create their own dream pc which they will never use.

So if you need hardware advice then stop being lazy and look up the reviews yourself on a site like tomshardware.com

[isus]

Well, it's quite obvious why I don't go pentium... I'm a poor student :)

Example:

Athlon XP 2400+/2,0GHz 85,90

P4 2,4GHz / 512KB S478 BOX 800 FSB 199,90

Now you've seen the radical differences in price....

P4 2,6GHz / 512KB S478 BOX 800 FSB 242,90

And now the biggest joke:

P4 3.2 GHz / 512KB S478 BOX 800 FSB 674,90

That's more then my entire pc costs!

Point made.

your point has not been 'made'. you said you used a 2400 bc it's clock speed is higher than a 3000. if you were worried about clock speed, you would have gone intel.

the point is, is that you shouldn't say "AMD 3000+ runs at 2167mhz right? why even bother buying it.." the reason to buy it is that it is faster. that's the point.

the rest was sarcasm/joking.

[Seraskier]

spending some 3 week's of research is hardly being lazy, and i have allready bought all the parts.

seriusly not getting your negativenes, but i am sure u mean well :wings

and yes, toms hardware has been very helpful

[Sephiroth]

spending some 3 week's of research is hardly being lazy, and i have allready bought all the parts.


Then there is no point to this thread anymore then is there?

[isus]

this thread isn't pointless.

it's fun to talk about comp stuff here.

if i gat a fan filter, would it be better to put it on the back, where air is sucked in, or on the front, where air is blown out? or does it not matter?

[Sephiroth]

this thread isn't pointless.

it's fun to talk about comp stuff here.

if i gat a fan filter, would it be better to put it on the back, where air is sucked in, or on the front, where air is blown out? or does it not matter?

Then create a new thread rather than bunch it all into one frankenthread.

These "im building a pc..." threads are pointless. First not only does it not matter since its not my computer, second all anyone does is just post what their ideal computer would be and that doesnt make for good advice, and third the person usually ends up doing whatever they wanted anyways so it was a waste of space.

Filters go on the front to prevent dust from getting in.

[Seraskier]

again i would disagree, i have had much use of those giving me advise. Whilst it is good and well to look att endless benchmark's it (in my opinion) can not make upp for real peoples experience.

"Filters go on the front to prevent dust from getting in"

as it would be useless to have a filter keping the dust in the case

Then there is no point to this thread anymore then is there?

not as such no...

but as isus sad it is a good place for those embraced by the world of computers to talk, and dream i u so whish. But apart from that, no

i would like to thank all those that have helpt me in my quest for the ultimat pc and apologise for the endles typos, so... thanks.

offcourse i have one last question to brand me as a complet idiot, (can't leav that out no can we) is there a need to "cool down" the pc, that is , shut it down like ones a day some 30 min, in the purpose of cooling it, when one as the whole setup of 5 case fans. If not is there then some recomended run time?

[isus]

just before the thread gets closed, as i think it might...

how about a zp hardware forum for threads such as this?

[Sephiroth]

just before the thread gets closed, as i think it might...

how about a zp hardware forum for threads such as this?

I dont think threads like this should be allowed here because those people should just use google and find the info themselves instead of being lazy.

Noobs asking for help on building a computer is not only just ends up in some kind of product fanboying and so on but if someone cant deicde what kind of hardware to get then how the heck are they going to be able to build the thing right which is the hard part.

A forum for actual hardware discussion and not noob hand holding threads like this one yeah the zeropaid technology forum is already similar to something like that.

[isus]

I dont think threads like this should be allowed here because those people should just use google and find the info themselves instead of being lazy.

Noobs asking for help on building a computer is not only just ends up in some kind of product fanboying and so on but if someone cant deicde what kind of hardware to get then how the heck are they going to be able to build the thing right which is the hard part.

A forum for actual hardware discussion and not noob hand holding threads like this one yeah the zeropaid technology forum is already similar to something like that.
thanks seph... as long as there is somewhere to put the hardware q's, im happy :-P