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Kooperman
September 19th, 2003, 03:30 AM
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From the NY Times

September 19, 2003
Music File Sharers Keep Sharing
By AMY HARMON with JOHN SCHWARTZ


Despite the lawsuits filed last week against 261 people accused of illicitly distributing music over the Internet, millions of others continue to copy and share songs without paying for them.

Last week, more than four million Americans used KaZaA, the most popular file-sharing software, according to Nielsen/NetRatings, only about 5 percent fewer than the week before the record industry's lawsuits became big news. One smaller service, iMesh, even experienced a slight uptick in users.

The sweeping legal campaign appears to be educating some file swappers who did not think they were breaking the law and scaring some of those who did. But the barrage of lawsuits has also highlighted a stark break between the legal status of file sharing in the United States and the apparent cultural consensus on its morality.

In a New York Times/CBS News poll conducted this week, only 36 percent of those responding said file swapping was never acceptable. That helps explain why the pop radio hit "Right Thurr," by Chingy, was available to download free from 3.5 million American personal computers last week, while two million file swappers in the United States shared songs from rock icons like the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, according to the tracking company Big Champagne.

The persistent lack of guilt over online copying suggests that the record industry's antipiracy campaign, billed as a last-ditch effort to reverse a protracted sales slump, is only the beginning of the difficult process of persuading large numbers of people to buy music again.

Mitch Bainwol, the new chairman of the Recording Industry Association of America, which brought the suits, said in an interview that the group had succeeded in communicating that file sharing is illegal and would have consequences. But he acknowledged that shifting attitudes would be the next battle in what he conceded was more an effort to contain file swapping than to wipe it out.

"It's a two-step process," he said. "I don't think anyone has an expectation that file-sharing becomes extinct. What we're trying to drive for is an environment in which legitimate online music can flourish."

The record industry argues that sharing songs online is just like stealing a CD from a record store. But to many Americans, file sharing seems more like taping a song off a radio. The truth, copyright experts say, may lie somewhere between.

And instead of significantly damping enthusiasm for file sharing, the record industry's lawsuits appear to be spurring increasingly sharp debates about how the balance between the rights of copyright holders and those of copyright users should be redefined for a digital age.

"Law, technology and ethics are not in sync right now," said Senator Norm Coleman, a Minnesota Republican who has called a hearing on the subject for later this month. "I presume these lawsuits are having some impact, but they're not solving the problem."

Soli Shin of Manhattan is not waiting for lawmakers to act. She gave some thought to the ethics of file sharing after hearing of the lawsuits and took her own library of 1,094 songs offline, because she knew they were aimed at people who "share" their music files with others. But she saw no reason to stop getting new music for herself.

"It's really a great convenience," Ms. Shin, 13, said. "If I like what I download maybe I'll buy it."

According to The Times/CBS News poll, adults under 30 are more inclined to consider music sharing over the Internet to be acceptable: 29 percent of them say the practice is acceptable at all times, compared with 9 percent of people older than that.

But the file-sharing trend, which includes many school-age people, has spread across nearly every demographic group, with 27 percent of Internet users between the ages of 30 and 49 involved, according to a survey released in July by the Pew Internet and American Life Project. Even 12 percent of those over the age of 50 participate in file sharing, the survey found.

Pew also found that among the 35 million adults that its survey indicated download music, 23 million said they did not much care about the copyright on the files they copied onto their computers. Among the 26 million who made files available for others to copy, 17 million did not care much about whether they were copyrighted.

In interviews last week, many file swappers said they were more wary of copying music since the wave of lawsuits was announced. But there was a strong current of defiance, even among those who said they had stopped.

Dr. Steve Vaughan, 35, a Manhattan physician who said he had downloaded about 2,000 songs over the Internet in recent years, said he stopped only because of the "fear factor" after hearing about the lawsuits. He said he might try one of the new legal online music services, though he doubted it would enable him to sample as wide a range of jazz, blues and folk to help him decide what to buy on CD.

Those options may be expanding. In addition to Apple Computer's iTunes and a new legal service called BuyMusic that recently began selling songs online for 99 cents, several competing online music stores are set to open this fall.

"If they give me a full selection, and I could sample what I want and it was well organized, I would love that," Dr. Vaughan said. "I'm not doing this to save money. I'm doing this because the music industry doesn't give me what I want."

At the root of the resistance for many — besides a perhaps decisive fondness for getting things free — is a complaint that the record industry is trying to take away the ability to make copies of music to use personally and to share with friends — a practice that Americans have long enjoyed.

Added to that is a deep-seated resentment of the big record labels, which music fans variously accuse of pricing CD's too high and producing too much bad music.

But Siva Vaidhyanathan, director of communications studies at New York University, said he told his students that distaste for record company practices was not a justification for making unauthorized copies of their music.

"If everyone would cool down the rhetoric we might actually have some helpful discussions," Professor Vaidhyanathan said.

"It would be nice to stop demonizing people who think they're doing reasonable legitimate things in their homes and stop demonizing people who are trying to make a living and recoup an investment," he added.

Society, Mr. Vaidhyanathan added, has to reconcile the desire to make personal copies with the new ability to make millions of perfect copies with the click of a mouse. "Suddenly we have this powerful copying technology in our own homes, and we haven't confronted exactly what it means."

The largest number of respondents to The Times/CBS News poll, 44 percent, said sharing music files over the Internet was sometimes acceptable, if a person shared music from a purchased CD with a limited number of friends or acquaintances. Conducted by telephone on Monday and Tuesday this week among 675 adults, the margin of sampling error in the poll was plus or minus four percentage points.

Lorraine Sullivan, a student at Hunter College in New York, paid $2,500 to the record industry association earlier this week to settle the lawsuit it filed against her. But she said she still saw nothing wrong with her use of file-sharing software. She downloaded Madonna songs that she already had on CD, for instance, so that she could have them on her computer and not have to change CD's while she cleaned her apartment.

"I still feel that if you use downloading to sample a CD or a song and you go buy the CD, it's O.K.," said Ms. Sullivan, who has set up her own Web site asking for donations to help pay her fine.

Fear of being sued or fined can help shape a new moral sensibility — as happened with sexual harassment laws, seat belt requirements and no- smoking laws — despite considerable initial public skepticism. Some legal experts and ethicists say the music industry's enforcement of copyright law against Internet file sharers may eventually catalyze a similar change in attitudes.

But many experts argue that legal prohibition alone is rarely effective in getting people to behave differently if it runs counter to strong societal beliefs.

"When efforts to ban behavior fail, like with the Prohibition, they may need to be changed," said Jeffrey Rosen, a law professor at George Washington University in Washington.

Several legislators, including Senator Coleman, have called for a re-examination of the notion of "personal copying." Some critics have have suggested that Congress could force the record companies to license their material and find a way to tax Internet users to pay them, essentially legalizing file sharing.

The number of Americans using KaZaA, the leading file-sharing software, from home has dropped about 15 percent since late June, when the record industry announced its plans to sue suspected copyright violators, Nielsen/NetRatings said.

"This slide down over a short period of time coincides with the record industry's effort to lower the boom on its users," said Greg Bloom, a senior analyst with Nielsen. "But there are still a lot of people using these services."

Software like KaZaA, Morpheus, Grokster and iMesh lets Internet users find and retrieve files on one another's computers, rather than from a central Web site. To "share" songs on peer-to-peer networks, users put them into a folder on their computer that they open to others. Others searching for those titles can then download copies onto their PC's.

"The record industry needs to win back the hearts and minds of record buyers, because they can't win a technology war," said Eric Garland, Big Champagne's chief executive.

Meanwhile, many recalcitrant file swappers are simply sizing up the odds: "How many people are they suing?" asked Carlo Lutz, 13, a Bronx High School of Science student, who was listening to rap music he had uploaded to his MP3 player on the subway last Thursday.

"There are millions of us," he added. "It's only a drop in the bucket

Malicious Intent
September 19th, 2003, 04:04 AM
Glad to hear that people are still sharing. I was getting the impression that nearly everyone had switched off.
I like this quote,
"Law, technology and ethics are not in sync right now"
It sums things up nicely.

method77
September 19th, 2003, 04:28 AM
Glad to hear that people are still sharing. I was getting the impression that nearly everyone had switched off. man... now tell me how did you come up with that conclusion? Even if you don't use a network and don't search for files (obviously you don't), don't you see the stats? The only people that stopped sharing are 13 year old kids and some adults that have no idea about filesharing other than kazaa.

rainbowdemon
September 19th, 2003, 04:43 AM
No problem here!!:fire

Malicious Intent
September 19th, 2003, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by method77
man... now tell me how did you come up with that conclusion? Even if you don't use a network and don't search for files (obviously you don't), don't you see the stats? The only people that stopped sharing are 13 year old kids and some adults that have no idea about filesharing other than kazaa.

I use KL, but never really kept an eye on the amount being shared, so can't compare it to the figures now.
Although there are no specific posts I can point you to, I just got the feeling that sharing was a fading fashion. My mistake.

FutureIverson
September 19th, 2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by method77
man... now tell me how did you come up with that conclusion? Even if you don't use a network and don't search for files (obviously you don't), don't you see the stats? The only people that stopped sharing are 13 year old kids and some adults that have no idea about filesharing other than kazaa.

No he's kind of right, filesharing has died, sure users on kazaa are around the same bot the bots are sharing newer and newer songs. For example I saw that fake songs i used to see are shared by more than 160 bots now. It's just that the bots share maybe 6-10 gigs of fake music and movies.

method77
September 19th, 2003, 03:57 PM
No he's kind of right, filesharing has died let me explain it for you kids: kazaa = NOT filesharing. Do you understand this or should i do it again?
Those law suits had absolutely NO effect on filesharing. It did have some effect on kazaa but ... who gives a fuck? Kazaa is just a client for file sharing. When you say filesharing you don't mean kazaa. Is this so hard to understand?

FutureIverson
September 19th, 2003, 04:05 PM
well some of those same 13 year olds weren't necesarily on kazaa, more people use Es5, and Dc++ than you think. filesharing has died, but how likely is it to find a rare file now? worse that's all i am trying to say. It's made leeching more than an issue, than a nuisance. My point was kazaa users aren't increasing, the bots sure share more than b4

method77
September 19th, 2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by FutureIverson
well some of those same 13 year olds weren't necesarily on kazaa, more people use Es5, and Dc++ than you think. filesharing has died, but how likely is it to find a rare file now? worse that's all i am trying to say. It's made leeching more than an issue, than a nuisance. My point was kazaa users aren't increasing, the bots sure share more than b4 Rare files are found now at the same rate they were found before.

btw
by saying that more people are using es5 doesn't qualify you to discuss filesharing issues...

FutureIverson
September 19th, 2003, 04:20 PM
im not agreeing with the 15 million users, or whatever but it's true that a lot of people have left p2p or have resorted to leeching, and it's become a real threat to P2P.

method77
September 19th, 2003, 04:26 PM
ok

FutureIverson
September 19th, 2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by method77
ok

lol yeah... but i understand your point, theres no need to go running to other programs or quit p2p. And the decrease isn't that bad. I think it will pretty much go back up, i think filesharing will go quadratic, and it's in it's dip stage, but it will reach that top point again.

Empire
September 19th, 2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by FutureIverson
lol yeah... but i understand your point, theres no need to go running to other programs or quit p2p. And the decrease isn't that bad. I think it will pretty much go back up, i think filesharing will go quadratic, and it's in it's dip stage, but it will reach that top point again. If the music industry doesn't keep suing p2pers or coming up with some new super-duper solution, they are going to really be trimmed down, to maybe what, 10% of their original size?

I guess they too will probably go to online sales and that means the first cuts will be in the CD creation/duplication part of the business, not the recording studios themselves.

Theinfamousone
September 19th, 2003, 06:40 PM
The RIAA has got it's hands full with the thousand people they have alread sued. How long will it take them to sue 1,000 people? Think about that. Users have been steadily going up over the last few weeks.

Malicious Intent
September 20th, 2003, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by Theinfamousone
The RIAA has got it's hands full with the thousand people they have alread sued. How long will it take them to sue 1,000 people? Think about that. Users have been steadily going up over the last few weeks.
Thats exactly what I thought - you are as safe now as you were ever. They arn't going looking for more names until this lots has been dragged through the courts.

Brycen257
September 20th, 2003, 11:03 PM
From everything I have seen file sharing is every bit as alive as it ever was. Its possible that some people have left Kazaa because most people know the RIAA monitors it closely and has sued many kazaa users but there are still many P2P applications out there that are doing a booming business. i don't see this changing in the near future either. I think some people were scared away initially because of the RIAA , but as many new users were created by all of the publicity over file sharing.

The solution to the many users that are leeching out there may be for the P2P applications to allow an introductory period of a week or so for new users and after that , if they aren't sharing a minimum number of files, cut them off from further downloads.

Lamourlady
September 21st, 2003, 06:55 PM
Fear of being sued or fined can help shape a new moral sensibility — as happened with sexual harassment laws, seat belt requirements and no- smoking laws — despite considerable initial public skepticism. Some legal experts and ethicists say the music industry's enforcement of copyright law against Internet file sharers may eventually catalyze a similar change in attitudes.

they won't shape too much or change many attitudes.
sexual harrassment and smoking are all things which are publicly seen, whereas downloading music is done in the privacy of your own home.
if asked....people would just lie....."no, i would never download copyrighted music."

copyright needs to be reassessed and that is all there is to it.


And instead of significantly damping enthusiasm for file sharing, the record industry's lawsuits appear to be spurring increasingly sharp debates about how the balance between the rights of copyright holders and those of copyright users should be redefined for a digital age.

and this is a good thing!

Arkalus
September 22nd, 2003, 01:34 PM
No fear!

Kooperman
September 22nd, 2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Arkalus
No fear!

Classy first post....

rainbowdemon
September 22nd, 2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Kooperman
Classy first post.... Better than some I've seen!!

shawners
September 22nd, 2003, 02:47 PM
what i think happened, is that the US file sharers went from kazaa to another means to sharing their files. cause if they were still on kazaa, it would say over 4 million users daily and none would dropt off.. I only share on MIRC and keep it to only servers and file sharers. I leech on other networks, and give back in other community. I hate sharing on kazaa, with the chance of being sued, ITs small chance, but theres still a chance.

IshareManyFilez
September 22nd, 2003, 03:00 PM
Ok heres the breakdown with me. I use Kazaa to find movies. Even if its a fake I have still gotten some good movies that I couldent find. With music the files are screwed up, but with movies, the file is just renamed so you can still get a good movie. Oh and anyway i got off the topic but I leech on Kazaa because im in the US, and I share like 300 quality movies, and all the simpsons eps on winmx, shareazza, imesh, and anything else where u can just select movies. I share music on Ares only because of the fact i want the network to grow.