If I hate the RIAA who do I vote for?

[Anonymous Proxy]

Is there a list anywhere of the political parties or politicians that oppose the privacy invasion of the RIAA?

[Sephiroth]

Try the ACLU or EFF.

[MoonMan]

ACLU is a joke, but definitally try the EFF.

[aqlo]

Yeah www.eff.com has lists, very useful stuff.

[Anonymous Proxy]

Yeah I imagine if I emailed them, 2 or 3 weeks later they might send me the name of some politician who made some kind of a vague pro privacy, anti RIAA reference.

Here's what I'm thinking though. I don't have the RIAA's bankroll. I can't buy laws. All I have is a vote. That's not much, but if I add it to the vast horde of p2p users, it becomes something.

Surely somebody somewhere has thought of this. I want to find this organization and add my name to their voice. The voice becomes louder if we know who to vote for to express our will.

Is that possible?

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by MoonMan
ACLU is a joke, but definitally try the EFF.

A person who proudly proclaims that they are an liberal on a regular basis considers the ACLU a joke.. Thats pretty funny.

[MoonMan]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
A person who proudly proclaims that they are an liberal on a regular basis considers the ACLU a joke.. Thats pretty funny.

Being a liberal does not necessarily mean you support EVERY liberal organization.. and I have dealt with the ACLU on a few occasions so I am basing my opinion on personal experience.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by MoonMan
Being a liberal does not necessarily mean you support EVERY liberal organization..

Why not, you and every other person who proclaims their political affiliations constantly all assume that the others all support the extreemes and every single organization constantly.

Just an example of what im talking about when im saying this has gone a little too far than voicing ones own opinion.

[MoonMan]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Why not, you and every other person who proclaims their political affiliations constantly all assume that the others all support the extreemes and every single organization constantly.

Just an example of what im talking about when im saying this has gone a little too far than voicing ones own opinion.

Hardly, don't group me up with everyone else because I state my views sometimes.

Besides, if you don't like a particular opinion you can always delete it. You've done it in the past and you will do it again. What's stopping you now ?

[Winphuk]

One of the candidates endorsed by the EFF is Howard Dean.
Great choice! Vote for him!

[que-em]

You vote for someone who supports Campaign Finance Reform and other money donation reform. Washington and Corporations are literally one in the same: One does favors for one and the other does favors for the other, leaving you the citizen left out. The poltians best weapon is our ignorance of whats happenning and even when we catch them phucking over us we are still dumb enough to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I remember the days when liberals stood up for the least among us but now its seems they are as dirty as the Republicans.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by MoonMan
Besides, if you don't like a particular opinion you can always delete it. You've done it in the past and you will do it again. What's stopping you now ?

You are just like everyone else. In fact you called conservatives Nazis and you took that cheap shot at me which is nothing new.

If you have a problem with me instead of taking cheap shots and having your buddies all back you up when you start to get into trouble and acting all intimidated why dont you pm me or post it in the news crib and well settle whatever your problem is right now.

[MoonMan]

No new problems, and the news crib is for news discussions so I'd rather not take anything like that there as it does not belong there.

BTW the nazi thing was a joke, as I know many conservatives and do have a few conservative views on things. Why do you always twist my words ?

You seem awefully defensive though. Let's just drop our latest dispute here and now since continuing on will only lead to the eventual destruction of this thread. That's what I am gonna do anyway.

[jonnymnemonic]

Why? Because he's the likeliest Democrat to get elected (but no one is likely to beat Bush). And it's not safe or healthy for this country to have the president AND both houses of Congress in the same party - regardless of the party. No checks and balances. How many spending bills has Bush vetoed? NONE. There's still plenty of pork on those bills, maybe more than ever, but Bush likes big business and big business likes the pork, so no vetoes.

A democratic president and a republican Congress is pretty cool. Congress fills the bills with pork, the president vetoes them, they trim some fat and try again, eventually the spending bill gets passed - minus all the taxpayer money flowing into unnecessary crap to prop up big businesses that can't compete fairly in the market, or who "just happen" to donate liberally to the republican cause. We had that with Clinton and it worked well: he vetoed his ass off, things got done, and the country didn't spiral into the Land Of Eternal Deficit.

Too much power in the hands of EITHER party is just plain bad for everyone. And it's easier to replace the president than a pack of senators and congressmen.

[Anonymous Proxy]

I'd like to play a round of "Just suppose" for a sec.

First of all, let's suppose a search engine existed that allowed people to search for what politicians did or didn't support the RIAA, along with statements they may have made on the subject.

Suppose this search engine was quite popular, especially around election time.

OK, now let's go back to the last election. As I recall, it pretty much came down to one final district, and the vote was tight.

Suppose it turned out there was an anti-RIAA politician in that district. Suppose his party won. Suppose it also turned out there was an unusually high amount of hits from that district on the search engine I described.

Would the RIAA still be goose-stepping through the internet suing 12 year olds, with the kind of impunity it now enjoys.

I wonder...

[jonnymnemonic]

Because Gore was heavily associated with Clinton, and Clinton was heavily associated with the entertainment industry - guilt by association.

But it could make a difference in this NEXT election. I mean, we know what we have now, and it's resulted in a massive psyops campaign of fear. Don't get me wrong - I think the artists need to get paid, and I think they should be able to set whatever price they want, just like any other purveyor of any other product can do. Yet the campaign of fear *cannot* be the best approach. I, who am a supporter of copyrights, am still unhappy with the current situation and the actions of the RIAA, which is probably not a good sign for them.

So. We need a change, shake things up. We can't change many senators or congressmen very quickly or easily, but the vote for the president is ONE VOTE and that alone could shake things up. If crap is so bad that it can't get worse (which is the case, seems to me), then any change has to be for the better, right?

[astralplanet]

The point is not to find a politician who is pro p2p, but to make politicians pro p2p by letting them know what that the 60 million Americans who use p2p technology think of the RIAA and other draconian legislation sponsored by the RIAA, and that we will write letters, send e-mails, sign petitions, be a pain in the ass, and, most importantly: vote.

Thanks to the EFF I have sent two emails to my congressman, and one to Howard Dean, and signed a petition that the EFF will take to Congress when they get to 10,000 signatures.

Petition:
http://www.eff.org/share/petition/

Send an email to your congressperson: http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=2770

[Ken17625]

You are just like everyone else. In fact you called conservatives Nazis and you took that cheap shot at me which is nothing new.

If you have a problem with me instead of taking cheap shots and having your buddies all back you up when you start to get into trouble and acting all intimidated why dont you pm me or post it in the news crib and well settle whatever your problem is right now.

Seph, it seems like you have a personal problem with MoonMan.

Instead of attacking him out in the open in a forum, why don't you settle this with him via PM?


Afterall, i'm sure a MOD like yourself would understand what you are doing here is against ZP rules.

Take your fight elsewhere.

[Anonymous Proxy]

Originally posted by astralplanet
The point is not to find a politician who is pro p2p, but to make politicians pro p2p by letting them know what that the 60 million Americans who use p2p technology think of the RIAA and other draconian legislation sponsored by the RIAA, and that we will write letters, send e-mails, sign petitions, be a pain in the ass, and, most importantly: vote.



I agree. There's power in the vote.

I'd like to suggest making it easy for people to know what politicians support their arguement . In this way I think more people would vote pro p2p. It would be kind of like how filesharing became more popular once it was easy for the average person to do so.

I think if there were an accesible website where people could easily discover what politicians supported the p2p arguement more people would vote for him, and as a result the arguement would become stronger.

Apathy prevents me from creating such a website, but I would like to visit one.

[astralplanet]

I like your idea, maybe try going to the EFF site and recomend the "political search engine " idea to the people there. I bet some one would take it on.

[Anonymous Proxy]

Yeah, that might work, if I could find their political search engine. All I can find is a search window that connects to Google.

Tried typing anti RIAA politicians into it. Got 2 results.

I'm thinking of something more radical.

I'm thinking of a site I go to a week before the election, because someone sent me there from Zeropaid.

When I get there I see I can easily link to a place where I can find where the politicians for my district stand on the issues of p2p and internet privacy.

Plus I find the EFF stance a little too vague. I found the statement on their petition kind of wish-washy. It could be the EFF is supported by online merchants who want some slack to do business, for all I know.

I'd like to visit a political information site with a radical pro p2p slant. Does anything like that exist. Zeropaid is nice, but it's apolitical.

[anotherjustme]

Originally posted by Anonymous Proxy
Yeah I imagine if I emailed them, 2 or 3 weeks later they might send me the name of some politician who made some kind of a vague pro privacy, anti RIAA reference.

Here's what I'm thinking though. I don't have the RIAA's bankroll. I can't buy laws. All I have is a vote. That's not much, but if I add it to the vast horde of p2p users, it becomes something.

Surely somebody somewhere has thought of this. I want to find this organization and add my name to their voice. The voice becomes louder if we know who to vote for to express our will.

Is that possible?

Reclaim the Public Domain (http://www.petitiononline.com/eldred/petition.html) Sign it!!
To: U.S. Congress, RIAA, All Record Companies, Spoiled Artists Sign it!! (http://www.petitiononline.com/riaawar/petition.html)
Take a Stand Against the Madness; Stop the RIAA!Sign it!! (http://www.eff.org/share/petition/)
"Conspiracy theory" Some interesting info. (http://forums.shareaza.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6133)

I hope this helps.

[jonnymnemonic]

That did help; thank you for providing the links (which so handily open a new window) all in one post like that. I signed all three.

I personally view the first one as the most important, because while I support copyrights and copyright owners, I also HIGHLY disagreed with the Sonny Bono act, and really really think copyright durations have grown so long that they now do much HARM to the public, defeating the purpose of copyrights in the first place. And I also really think that mass lawsuits aren't ultimately good for anyone, not copyright owners, not the public, nobody.

[astralplanet]

I know the petitonon doesn't sound too radical, but I think it's because they are trying to work "inside" of the system. They definately are not a pro-industry group, though, in any way. They have pro-consumer, pro-civil liberties stands on a lot of isssues, (Linux vs. SCO, Direct TV, USA PAtriot Act) . The letter they have prewritten so you can write your congress person is a more concrete expression of the EFF position. But I know what you mean; whenever you try working from inside the system ideas get watered down. On the plus side, its a way to bring a lot of people togeter with similar views- the EFF petition is over
20,000 signatures now.

[que-em]

On the real though I would look at Kucinich (http://www.kucinich.us) He seems to be anti-establishment and the only one who seems to be really taking a risk in what he's saying.

[anotherjustme]

Originally posted by jonnymnemonic
That did help; thank you for providing the links (which so handily open a new window) all in one post like that. I signed all three.
Don't thank me. I didn't find those links myself, all I did was "quote","copy" and "paste".

[ROMANTICGUY50]

Originally posted by Winphuk
One of the candidates endorsed by the EFF is Howard Dean.
Great choice! Vote for him!

I agree with that. Of all the candidates I yhink that Dean is the one I would vote for.

[anotherjustme]

On the real though I would look at Kucinich (http://www.kucinich.us) He seems to be anti-establishment and the only one who seems to be really taking a risk in what he's saying.

Yeah, well... but you do know when a politician is lying, don't you?

When his lips are moving!!! :)

But who knows...

[FrozenShadow23]

Moonman, Sepheroth, CALM the hell down, jesus.
I'm amazed at people who will base their votes wholly on whether or not the candidate supports p2p.

/me shakes head at the insanity... ALL of it.

[ROCKAMANIAC]

The Stop RIAA Lawsuits Coalition

http://www.stopriaalawsuits.com/

[NAPSTER_DOT_COM]

One of the candidates endorsed by the EFF is Howard Dean.
Great choice! Vote for him!

Now I must throw a wrench into all of your political bable, and make you re-think about which side of the political faction is really looking out for you.

First off, Winphuk where's the proof that Howard Dean is endorsed by the EFF? The Electronic Fontier Foundation is a non-profit, non-partisan organization.

Secondly the whole RIAA/MPAA vs Peer to Peer isnt a Democratic vs Republican issue in fact, the RIAA is using the subpoena power to its advantage because of the DMCA bill that was passed by the Republican controlled Congress and signed into law by the Democrat President in 1998.

Thirdly if you actually looked it up and follow the whole story of the file sharing controversy you'd discover that most Democrat's are opposed to the illegal distribution of copyrighted songs over the internet, some Republicans are opposed to it too. And who said the the ACLU sucks? They're the only civil group known for their far liberal stands standing up on this issue. There's also the EFF as previously mentioned, and also the American Library Associations (ALA) another civil liberties group that's taken a stand against the RIAA and MPAA. Not all big business is evil, Verizon, SBC, Charter are at court trying to quash the RIAA's subpoena superiority. Far as I know there has already been reported of two Republican Senators who are obviously not in favor of stealing music but are least concerned and opposed to the ephatic behavior of the RIAA and MPAA absurbly evicting expensive lawsuits to unsuspected individuals (U.S. Senator R Minnesota Norm Coleman (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5486-2003Oct9.html), Senator R Kansas Sam Brownback (http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60461,00.html) )

What's even more unsurprising is how no one directed this topic of file sharing toward the nine Democratic Candidates to hear their views on the issue and what they'll do about it. Over 60 million Americans are or have shared or downloaded songs through peer to peer networks and its rarely yet heared in a political debate!

[HolyMoly]

First off, Winphuk where's the proof that Howard Dean is endorsed by the EFF? The Electronic Fontier Foundation is a non-profit, non-partisan organization.

The EFF.ORG site uses Google-Search ... and a search for the phrase "Howard Dean" doesn't show a single mention of his name on their entire site. Still, non-profit/non-partisan PACs endorse candidates all the time ... but not this early in the campaign. They'll wait until after the primaries to either endorse someone or withhold an endorsement (which is also an option).

Not all big business is evil, Verizon, SBC, Charter are at court trying to quash the RIAA's subpoena superiority.

Very true. The RIAA is only an industry association, nothing more. They are not a recognized legal authority. And on close inspection of the law, a suit must be filed before a subpoena is issued ... not the other way around. SBC was the first ISP to point this out. I suspect this will be headed for the Supreme Court unless legislation prior to such a case "re-works" the procedure one way or another.

Incidentally, EFF.ORG is not the only P2P-friendly organization out there. SUBPOENADEFENSE.ORG has a list of attorneys willing to defend you if the RIAA comes knocking at your door:

http://www.subpoenadefense.org/legal.htm

And Gigi Sohn of PUBLICKNOWLEDGE.ORG has gone toe-to-toe with Mitch Glazer (an RIAA lackey) on national television shows such as C-SPAN's Washington Journal. Check out their website:

http://PublicKnowledge.org