what about the truly broke?

[seeresstoo]

I wonder what I am suppose to do...I just happen to have a computer but couldn't afford a cd to save my life. I mean I get 600$ a month to live on and I have to pay rent food ect. Before it got to this point I use to buy cd's ect. had lots of them in fact... now they are pretty much gone and I have no way to replace so I file share and hope that someone has something that I'll enjoy. What do I do when RIAA takes that possibility away?

[don webb]

You could try finding a JOB!

[tMoD]

Originally posted by don webb
You could try finding a JOB!

You are SO right! Even though the unemployment rate is the worst it's been in 30 years, jobs are as plentiful as the stars! Getting a job, in fact, is like picking fruit off of a tree- you just go out and you get one. No one has to actually give you one, you just go out and you take one. And IF jobs were somehow scarce and someone were to beat you out for the job, for whatever reason (there IS no excuse after all), then you deserve your suffering. Hallelujah! May the strong survive!

[Malicious Intent]

They would argue that if you crashed your car and can't afford a new one, then you have no right to steal one.
By all means pick the many obvious holes in it.
And what do you mean the CDs have pretty much gone? Rotted away?
There was an article about a women who was robbed that discussed p2p as a solution to her problem and the moral ambiguity of her using the system.

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/articles/auto/07072003e.php

[nasrules]

Originally posted by tMoD
You are SO right! Even though the unemployment rate is the worst it's been in 30 years

*ahem* International website here *ahem*

[tMoD]

Originally posted by nasrules
*ahem* International website here *ahem*

seeresstoo is from the state of Georgia (I assume that's what he/she means by "Ga."), don webb is from the "USA," and I am from "Los Angeles." The context should make it clear what country's unemployment figures I was referring to.

[rainbowdemon]

Easy fellas! There is no need for yet another argument about nothing.

[johnsmatrix]

Originally posted by seeresstoo
I wonder what I am suppose to do...I just happen to have a computer but couldn't afford a cd to save my life. I mean I get 600$ a month to live on and I have to pay rent food ect. Before it got to this point I use to buy cd's ect. had lots of them in fact... now they are pretty much gone and I have no way to replace so I file share and hope that someone has something that I'll enjoy. What do I do when RIAA takes that possibility away?

I want a new computer....and a porshe....Tough S#it ain't it....

I'm not clear if this is supposed to be a morality question or not? In reality you'd listen to the radio and just would't have P2P anymore. Obviously you can afford an internet connection. Are they supposed to feel sorry for you? I don't get it.

[tMoD]

Originally posted by rainbowdemon
Easy fellas! There is no need for yet another argument about nothing.

You're right. I think I need to avoid political threads. They're pointless anyway- no one ever convinces anyone.

[IshareManyFilez]

Even if i had the money, i probaly still wouldent buy the cds. I would put my money into a wiser investment that would make me more money.

[shawners]

you guys are so cruel... You have no idea how hard it may be for that person, or if theirs kids involved that have to be watched, and if your on welfare cause your disabled, if you have another income the cut down your food stamps, they lower the money they give you. Not all jobs pay great or can be obtained, you can work 40 hours a week and be in poverty. I know, my mom had a blood disorder and died during kemo therapy, when it turn into lucemia.. She had negative dollars in the bank, and i had to help pay her bills, and take her to Houston every weekend for treatment. Before judgeing, take a step back and look at the whole picture.
And if you want this person to boycott the riaa, mentioning to her to get a job to pay for the albums is money not even worth spending.

[tMoD]

I feel I need to clarify that my post was sarcastic, just in case it was misunderstood. And that is the last thing I'll be saying in this thread.

[Kooperman]

Originally posted by shawners
you guys are so cruel... You have no idea how hard it may be for that person, or if theirs kids involved that have to be watched, and if your on welfare cause your disabled,

It scares me when I agree with shawners, lol, but in this case his point is right on target. There's no need to pummel somebody before you know the personal situation.

[Lamourlady]

well, i can understand this chap's situation.
i got laid off a great paying job and used to buy atleast 4-6 cds a month. new ones for the daughter and replacing the ones i have had in lp form.
but the job i hold now....well it sucks, pay-wise.
p2p or not........i just wouldn't be buying them.
although p2p gives us a wonderful opportunity to still hear the new stuff coming out, i still can't use my financial situation as the basis as to why i download. (although it does solve that particular problem.....Doh!)
regardless of whether u or anyone else believes it is right or wrong.....i take responsibility for what i personally believe about p2p and take whatever consequences come with that belief.
so whatever u believe........just be ready for what comes with it.
it is a personal decision, just make sure u have all the facts.
the fact that it is free is the main reason we all use p2p, but there are many other facets as to why this p2p revolution is taking place.

[aqlo]

Hi seeress! I sympathize with the problem you are describing (even though politically I am a cold-blooded bastard!)

The first thing I want to tell you is that the riaa is never going to be able to stop free music again, so there's no worries there.

The next thing would be to encourage you to use your computer to increase your prospects in life. I don't know if you are living on a pension or welfare or just a student budget, it doesn't really matter. There are things you can do to increase your income, you can start by learning to create webpages and work your way up to programming at http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/

Once you have some skills you can create a resume suitable for work-at-home jobs if that is what you need, you can also advertise on your webpages (free space!) to supplement your income almost immediately (Amazon.com and other web-based sellers are eager to partner with you.)

That's about all I can give without more detail, and is based on the idea that your idea is serious. If this is just an "ethics" question then feel free to starve also, if you are too proud to work in your parallel world or whatever.

[SuitablyTwisted]

What to do if you are truly broke, but love music? Find a group of friends who will share their music with you. I've been sharing music since the 70's. Always willing to make a copy of an LP, or a mix tape. I love turning people on to new music. p2p is jst the most recent and, yes, convenient way to do this. But if it is somehow criminalized or disabled, we will soldier on. Yahoo groups has dozens of listings of music fangroups who swap between themselves. Before that we posted ads in the back of music magazines. Never fear, unless rendered completely deaf, you will never lack for music if you know where to look.

[seeresstoo]

Well luckily I have a sense of humor...get a job, hum? Would love to I am awsome atdata entry ect. unfortantly your talk to someones who goes to a menal health place...LOL kinda hard to get a jog when you didn't go to high school and have screaming panic attacks when there are too many people around you.. I love to have things to do. wish my memory wasn't buggy. LOL use to joke you could tell me something and in 20 min wouldn't remember the paticulars. I trully hope that some of the things will work out. I considered going to the stars websites to protest to them because they wouldn't want bad press but then I thought that any press recognition on my part would be only press of another sort. They might decide to hold a press release the only thing I could think of was to e-mail or post where RIAA is and then simply truly stop going to web sites that support them ect. I mean stop using the music sites to buy and you can go there for everything else. unlesss that website isn't well known. Or mostly just going into town to the small local store and let your views be known and the reason behind them educate people. My family has money and this is how they have done things in the past. But right now they are lucky to have any at all themselves.

[Malicious Intent]

Originally posted by seeresstoo
...LOL kinda hard to get a jog when you didn't go to high school and have screaming panic attacks when there are too many people around you..

Are you the guy I had an argument with about 6 months ago after I caught you leeching from kazaa? It was at a time when I was particulary annoyed with leechers, so sent a couple of messages out saying something like:
"How about a bit more sharing? - You are not the only one trying to download."
Then this person replied:
"True"
I said, "So you will share then?"
"no"
And so it went on. I soon discovered this person suffered from Agoraphobia.
It just seems like coincidence that you are the second person suffering from this rare diesease.

[Malicious Intent]

I'm broke, but need the internet for studying. The Unis computers are not open 24/7 like I need them, particularly when a deadline is approaching. I also split the cost with my flatmates so it is very cheap.

True, I suppose that I don't need music or films, or my speakers... I suppose I'm trying to acquire as much as I can with my student loan. I will pay society back later.

[Malicious Intent]

I just googled the lyrics and that is harsh!

[begoodbebad]

Originally posted by Kooperman
It scares me when I agree with shawners

Oh good I thought it was just me

[cheapprick]

If this person wants to justify what they are doing on a financial basis, who the hell are any of us to judge?

[Andy L]

mental illness isn't much of an excuse--it is often a cop out for lazy jackasses to mooch off the system a little longer

What a fucking ridiculous thing to say.

[Ken17625]

i've never heard of anyone dying of media deprivation

I agree with this statement 100%.

And I believe that about sums up my opinions on this matter.

[fernandez]

I suggest that those uttering such harsh words read shawners' post again.

[Rickio]

Being broke is as good a justification as any.

Most of the people here use the simple justification of to hell with it. I'll do what I want.

Just our local bullies kicking someone when they are down.

[rainbowdemon]

Originally posted by aqlo
Rainbow I am that asshole. I think that when the cpu is broken that badly you need to get a warranty replacement.

Nevertheless I have removed the post in deference to those who might believe that our warranty is invalid. I hadn't intended to post in this thread again, having had my say both practically in the first post, with fair warning about my politics; and then politically in the second post after my advice was ignored in favor of argumentation.

As for tasteless, I thought I had showed extreme restraint in not just posting the song (which I think is beautiful.) I did it that way so that anyone who was already ignoring me could just ignore that too. Well, that being the case, I'll remove mine too. Then we can call this one over.

[baghdad_steve15]

His excuse is that he is poor. My excuse is that its easier to order DSL (delivered ) order cd-r's (delivered) download IRC, and wait while the music is magically stored in my computer and then finally it gets transformed into a CD by this witchcraft box thingy called a burner. Your excuse may be different, but in the end its an excuse.

[seeresstoo]

LOL , this computer is a part of what little bit jobs I can get. Gaphics +searches for freinds and family too busy to do it for themselves. But for the people insulting my....go right ahead if it makes you feel better. I would like say that being broke wasn't an excuse but it isn't so I just go on....but if I had the money I would donate at least a few dollars to the people who do all the work...ya know. I mean I love one book publisher online and that is baen. thehy have a free downloadable library and I happen to love their books. You want to read something interesting go to www.baen.com and read the liabrary's creator's remarks. That's what got me interested in P2P in the first place. Oh and thanks shawners if you are intrested in what made me SSDI look up Thyroid Problems (Hyper/Hypo) I had one and now the other.

[Peppermint]

Originally posted by shawners
you guys are so cruel... You have no idea how hard it may be for that person, or if theirs kids involved that have to be watched, and if your on welfare cause your disabled, if you have another income the cut down your food stamps, they lower the money they give you. Not all jobs pay great or can be obtained, you can work 40 hours a week and be in poverty. I know, my mom had a blood disorder and died during kemo therapy, when it turn into lucemia.. She had negative dollars in the bank, and i had to help pay her bills, and take her to Houston every weekend for treatment. Before judgeing, take a step back and look at the whole picture.
And if you want this person to boycott the riaa, mentioning to her to get a job to pay for the albums is money not even worth spending. Being healthy and wealthy, in the long run, is no better than being broke and disabled.

The disabled person gets to reflect on the true desperation that all people will die, that all their toil and work will be for naught anyway.

At least the disabled person gets a chance to confront the real facts of life and maybe do something about it instead of just getting lost in the fake sense of security that materiality gives us.

[Undying Wizard NHD]

I have a Job- work 40 hours a week and barly make if even tht- $1,000 a mounth $500 rent $300 util's- $100 food ,rest gas.


RIAA trys to sue me they will put me on the streets as a homless person, if anywhere in tht figure u can fit in buying music, movies, and software your crazy


of course I dont have a car right now since its broken, so I ride a bus/ bike to work ( depending if I can pay for the bus or not)

so if RIAA wants to sue me, they wont get shit and I will move to my friend's house in Canada.


RIAA doesent understand tht most of these people cant pay for this stuff, atleast MPAA gives you a warning

dont know who the software people are , they dont seem to be doin much as far as I know.


I dont think I'll ever get caught since I not a heavy user tho.

[shawners]

Originally posted by notbob

if you're that broke, sell your computer--i know i have a few times
Humm notbob.. their is thing of doing without then there is a thing of selling your pc.. But thats just suicide.
YOu can always have a job if you can do things on the pc, find jobs, resume, email, keep up with illness, convience.
My excuse for downloading mp3s are, I hate seeing spoiled little rich bitches have millions of dollars, when i walk out of a cd store with a 50 minute recording, and thirteen less dollars in my wallet.. IT BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME TO DEATH!!!

Oh yeah, it was said by Everclear in a song, "They say the money is the root to all that kills, obviously they never had the joy of a welfare christmas"

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

Damn I wish I was on this thread sooner. I agree with several and disagree with many. The biggest thing that would have calmed the smoking guns would have been for people to explain just why they're broke. Define broke? Do you have to be jobless? No. It's more or less a state of mind. Or if you prefer the generic description, just not having enough money. I have a job. The term "broke" usually happens a few days before payday. I know I'll get through it. But...if I was jobless, laid-off, or whatever, I wouldn't immediately turn to P2P for my needs. And I sure as hell wouldn't waste my dial-up time downloading music when I could be finding employment. Perhaps I can justify that b/c I have a nice nestegg of music. Perhaps it's just a personal preference. I will continue buying albums as long as I can afford them.

When you think about it, it's really not fair to the band. I would hate to know that if I were in a band releasing my first album, that I wasn't achieving the success I had always dreamed of due to people trading music that somehow got on the internet. And if that's not the issue, we can turn it to the record industry. Too costly? Buy Universal. They just reduced their CD prices. Absolutely gotta have it? Buy used. There's tons out there.

I will reveal a recent breakdown though. HAD to hear the Evanescence song. Didn't want the whole Daredevil album. Don't know anyone who owns it. So I downloaded it. I think from another country. So broke or not broke, sometimes you just need some music.

[jonnymnemonic]

You can be broke AND have access to music, DVDs and books, for free, and it's not illegal, nor immoral. They call it....the library.

Yeah, yeah, now we're gonna hear, "But the library is so far away, and I gotta fill out a FORM" blah blah. At which point you have decided to break the law not because you're broke, but because you're lazy. Even homeless people can get library cards.

Besides, if you're looking for a better JOB, then just ditch the music and movies, but books can HELP you find a job, or learn a skill useful in maintaining a job, or advice on getting raises, or any number of things that neither music nor movies will teach you.

Another good thing about libraries is that even if you are totally broke and can never buy a CD or DVD or book yourself, you can request them from the library and if they don't have that title, but get enough requests, then THEY will buy it FOR you (and others) to enjoy. So you can, via the library, indirectly benefit the artists you most appreciate, even if you never spend a dime yourself.

[bad_122]

Doesn't the riaa realise that the country's economy is in a slump? if the country doesn't have enough money to keep people in their jobs then how in hell are the people going to be able to afford to buy the very over priced cds? copyright or no the honest fact is that the slump in sales is mainly due to the crumbling economy cause there are alot more broke people around, forget the political bull and the ethical bull. the economy is bad so therefore cd sales which are classes as luxury items will experience a major drop. I mean what gives are their sales supposed to be at it's peak when people are getting layed off left right and center? Riaa can go get rammed up the arse hard if they expect people to pour their money down the cd drains when most people are worrying if they will still have a job the next day.

just figured I had to say that

[shawners]

i dont understand your logic on here by a few members.. You want this person to pay for music, and you want them to have ajob, describe being broke, maybe do without a few things like a pc, and so on... Have you any idea how stupid that sounds, WERE IN A BOYCOTT FROM BUYING RIAA products and your trying to make people feel guilty or that they should buy the albums, please stop before you make my eyes bleed in seeing all this.

If you dont pay for it, please dont suggest others to pay for it.. This is a file sharing portal, not a guilt trip to the wonderlands of what if portal

also, i dont recall any artist being laid off from their jobs, mostly they quit, die, strung out, or talent have left them. So if a few artist lose their jobs, maybe they can do what alot of people do, flip burgers and flip off the recording industry..

[rainbowdemon]

If you dont pay for it, please dont suggest others to pay for it.. This is a file sharing portal, not a guilt trip to the wonderlands of what if portal Yes, that is right! Hey Kooperman where are you when I need you, buddy. I just agreed with Shawners too!!

[cheapprick]

Originally posted by rainbowdemon
Yes, that is right! Hey Kooperman where are you when I need you, buddy. I just agreed with Shawners too!!

He's the man lately.

[Kooperman]

shawners *gulp* rules!!!!

[rainbowdemon]

for the truly broke, priorities would include housing, a car, a job, food, daycare etc. a computer and internet account to download files should be the least of the "truly broke"'s worries This is true too. But I can only speak for myself. I bought my comp when I had a big money job. Now my work is seasonal. I am a ski technician. Obviously that means some lean summers. But I still have the comp. The basic things DO take a higher priority.

[Lucian]

I'm a college student to, dude I dont blame you for not buying music and despite what you say, its not stealing because some of us believe that no one has a right to own culture.

Why should people with more money get more music and more culture? Have we ever asked this question? Its like believing only the rich should get an education, and getting rid of all public schools. Alot of people want to do that and then they wonder why some of us cannot find a job.

"Get a Job, just buy your qualifications!"

Yeah ok people.

[Lucian]

computer and internet account to download files should be the least of the "truly broke"'s worries

I'm truely broke, but I'm also in college, my computer is as important as food and water, I mean without the computer I cannot educate myself, I cannot hope to get a job without an education.

So It makes sense for the truely poor to have computers, its not like they can afford private school or Harvard university style education, they need some way to educate themselves.

Please lets not make snobby posts, as if all of you never were college students and poor before, I'm sure each one of you have been in this situation, you are right music isnt important to a person whos poor, but at the same time music is important to a person who is poor.

Think of it this way, the poor start with nothing, the rich start with everything, the rich snob who can buy all the music he wants yet does not deserve, suddenly its morally right, but the poor person born with nothing who wants to occassionally have some music, its wrong?

Maybe just maybe if the RIAA didnt control all the music, it would be at a price that everyone could afford, and also there might be access to free music.

[FutureIverson]

Originally posted by notbob
get a GED, take a job you don't like--if you truly need the money, you'd better be willing to do stuff you don't want to until you find a job you're better suited for

mental illness isn't much of an excuse--it is often a cop out for lazy jackasses to mooch off the system a little longer

what the fuck is your problem
although there not going to go easy on you just because your underage, or your gender, or cuz your poor. it's all in the risk

[FutureIverson]

what are you trying to say? . several the post here come from people who are wealthy and have been since childhood. If you haven;t gone hungry before then don't tell him, how to earn money. There's many obstacles with getting money, yeah theirs job's but not sufficient enough you need a job where you can get PAID, . it's not a snap of your fingers, oh wait for you it is.

Minimum wage goes much farther when your a 16 year old than when your 35

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

This is all pretty amazing. At this rate, I should be an Advanced BBS Member in no time. What people will do to defend their ability to download. Strong points from JM & NB. I would definitely consider that advice. Can't buy a CD? Buy a cassette. Assess your situation and adapt. Not everything can be 190 Kbps. And the defiant cry of "Boycott!!" Better get the bandages. Blood will flow. People screw up and download songs. Some make screwing up a habit. At that point, it's no longer a mistake. And as far as this portal goes, it's pretty boring if all we have is supporters who "converse" about their entitlements. Last I checked, this was "free" for anyone to join. You can report this post to the moderator. If I'm kicked out, it just shows that some of us cannot handle a mature debate. Besides, maybe if a strong enough point is made, I may defy the RIAA just as much as the strongest of you. Not happening at this time. I'll admit, I don't like their bulldog approach to this whole thing. But I won't be in hiding during the eradication of the file-sharers when the lawsuits are being handed out. I'm sorry, but I don't have $100,000 for a single file that I download. And I did my time at the burger joint. And you know what that joint bought me? Cassettes. And I bet they were considered too expensive back then too.

Oh, and here's a good one...college. Did that shotgun hurt that made you go to college? And why are you going? For the "culture" of it? Or perhaps, was it to get a nice paying job to BUY things and eliminate the potential of being broke? Compared to what seems the majority here, I am a person who is not "broke." Why should people with more money get more music and more culture? Because some of them earn it. Some of us rise to the challenges laid before us. I am not rich, but somehow, I received an education. I deserve the music, and the culture, that I worked so hard to attain. I would consider going to college as buying your qualifications.

Computers are not entirely necessary. What did some of us aged people do 15 years ago. We read books. Books that they still distribute in school and libraries. Computers have just made things easier for mankind. Almost too easy. So computers are not the only avenue to educate oneself.

I will agree with the poor vs. rich scenario, but only to a point. I am far from being that rich snob. I believe that the poor are entitled to certain aesthetic pleasures. But the catch phrase is occasionally. My guess is not everyone partakes just occasionally.

I'll let this temporarily rest. I can already sense the flood gathering it's power. Not a problem. Here's to the world sucking.

[Ken17625]

several the post here come from people who are wealthy and have been since childhood.

You couldn't be more wrong.........

[FutureIverson]

Originally posted by Ken17625
You couldn't be more wrong.........

well with the quality of the post, it has to be. he never said he is justifying downloading. with pming him i got to know his situation better. It was implemented that it's easy to make a living and that this guy is some lazy bum, and my point is. IT's not. It honestly isn't. A job at mcdonalds may be good for me, but if you got a wife and a couple kids it's not going to cut it for you. Make a poll then, see how many here can afford an riaa subpoena.

[ATLien]

Originally posted by seeresstoo
I wonder what I am suppose to do...I just happen to have a computer but couldn't afford a cd to save my life. I mean I get 600$ a month to live on and I have to pay rent food ect. Before it got to this point I use to buy cd's ect. had lots of them in fact... now they are pretty much gone and I have no way to replace so I file share and hope that someone has something that I'll enjoy. What do I do when RIAA takes that possibility away?
I'd say, crank that computer up, and join the "Zeropaid" revolution, and get all the, f'n' music you want........like me!!!

[Pebbles100]

Originally posted by Lord_of_the_Dense
Can't buy a CD? Buy a cassette. Assess your situation and adapt. Not everything can be 190 Kbps.

LOL! -- Cassettes? -- where are these sold?

[FutureIverson]

lol i guess with the vinyll stores. Notice more boom boxes dont even have cassets. It's cuz their gay.

[Shadow, Thief of the Sun]

As a side note - i think that avantgarde musicians are still releasing some of their music only on cassetes (and also some labels like RRR Records or EE Tapes) , but its a sort of special statement. I don't think that most of them are trying to make a lot of money . But i think that outside avantgarde circle nobody is releasing cassetes anymore.

[jonnymnemonic]

Lord_of_the_Dense, I highly doubt you'll get banned/deleted. Hell, they've been putting up with ME for months, and you and I seem to have some things in common, including our age. As long as you're there to provide another side to the story, which is what I also try to do, then I think it's GOOD you're here.

It gets damn boring seeing stuff like:

"RIAA sucks"
"Yeah"
"Let's not buy any more CDs!"
"Yep, good idea!"

Blah blah blah blah. I mean, really, YAMN. Without dissenting viewpoints, pretty much any conversation, on any topic, is utterly and completely boring. If you don't scam, spam, or slam, they don't seem to gripe too much. Polite rational disagreement is a boon to any message board. ;)

[Pebbles100]

Now that you guys mention it, I kinda used to like cassettes....

[Lord_of_the_Dense]

Lord_of_the_Dense, I highly doubt you'll get banned/deleted. Hell, they've been putting up with ME for months,

LOL. Ok Mr. Anderson. It's good to have a comrade-in-arms. For once I'm laughing and it doesn't have a sarcastic or incredulous bitterness to it. My goal is not to shoot down every thread using Pro-RIAA banter. But sometimes you just gotta pass out the Twinkies and say "Nap Time.":cross

[mojo-ris-in]

Originally posted by Pebbles100
Now that you guys mention it, I kinda used to like cassettes....

Beat the hell out of 8-tracks:cross