Industry-Supported Video Files - Yes or No?

[paradox99]

Question -- Would you be willing to download video content on p2p if the shows contained the ads that you get when you watch the same show or movie on regular TV?

For decades the television networks have supported themselves by selling ad space - the producers made the shows, sold it to the broadcast networks - who then managed the task of getting the content to the viewers - A big, expensive, and difficult job -- Back in the Day......

The networks supported their expensive technology infrastructure by selling ad space, originally as part of shows, "sponsored by..." whoever, (usually cigarette companies). Later, commercial ads appeared in the format we all know and put up with.

Skip ahead to Now - p2p almost completely automates content distribution at next to zero cost to the producer. "Broadcasting" over a "Network" has become antiquated and inefficient - content can now be found quickly, and watched whenever requested. Essentially, the users support the cost of the broadcasting.

But instead of taking advantage of this fantastic new resource, we're letting the antiquated "network" system, the middleman, control the content! Shows get created by studios, but instead of flowing directly to their audience, they're kept in reserve by the broadcasters and then released a little at a time. It's totally artificial - in essence, the dam controls the river!

The networks make decisions on who gets to see what, when. That's fine for sporting events and news - which have to be live, and which require lots of people to produce - but drama, comedy, music?

That's just crazy!

Who are these people to say what's good, bad, and suitable for viewing?

Do we live in a society where the freedom to show your message is controlled by a select few whose names we don't even know? I sincerely hope not!

Lately, the networks seem to be releasing poorer and poorer content for us anyway - Not only has their technological advantage deserted them - so has their taste and judgement!

So here's the question - would you support releasing broadcast shows legally over p2p, provided that the shows contained the same ads that you see on TV?

The advantage to producers - more control over content - no broadcast schedules to adhere to - shows could be any length, any screen size and shape, and released in multiple languages, etc, simultaneously. Ads can be sold directly to the producers, meaning more profit. Producers could even get extremely accurate "Nielsen" style ratings by asking each viewer to fill out a survey at the end of each show...

The advantage to viewers - we can watch the shows we want, when we want, and never have to wait like our grandparents parents did - and never, EVER miss an episode!

Paradox99

[Psilaxs]

Yes i would because i would have access to my favorite shows (at least i hope) when i wanted. Which episode i wanted, and on my schedule.


If the industry would do this it would be great, i don't mind commercials (they have to get paid), but i swear, if the commercials are as loud on downloaded episodes, as they are on TV, i will murder the first sonuva bitch i find that is responsible for that lol

[crackerjacker]

Lately, the networks seem to be releasing poorer and poorer content for us anyway - Not only has their technological advantage deserted them - so has their taste and judgement!

The networks are pretty good at what they play. The thing is I hardly watch tv and this is rarely. But the episodes that I am more or less into is Csi as well as simpons etc. But if they do put advertisements into it and let people download it then its ok with me.
But right now it would be interesting to know how this would even work out. People filling out a survey or something maybe but what if they dont.
I think if they were to do this they would have to use bittorent to gather statictics and such. But you know once people obtain copies of the advertisement of television episodes automatically they will be shared on other p2p programs.

That gets to my next point anyone can use virtual dub and remove the advertisement scenes etc. I know how to do it lol.
I am sure countless others knows how to edit video to.
But to be honest I wouldnt even edit the commercials I would either watch them or let them play while i take a break for a minute or fast forward.
But sure it wouldnt be such a bad idea at least its a nice idea. hmm
Their is another solution they can offer unlimited downloads for a set price and make money like that to. And you can do whatever you want with the tv episodes you want. That way you can watch them again, burn them to cd.
Hell I would be interesting in a service like this but unfortunately I wouldnt have the time to do download them back and forth more or less i would stream them in real time.

That could be a good point people can stream files from others as well like is the case with mp3 streams. There is a program that allows you to stream files and other users share the bandwidth equally so every stream you get goes to someone else. But this defacto is only in the mp3 streaming arena.

As for this idea sure I would watch the tv episodes advertisements dont bother me to much its the spyware crap that bothers me.
All in all this is what I would like to see done. But hmm there are other ways to do things for now.
lol, I hardly watch tv but its still a good idea.
woot woot

[Krell]

This is nonsense, you have no idea how networks make their profit.

The last thing anyone wants is more damned spam and advertisement, are you 15 or what?

[paradox99]

Thanks most of you for your thoughtful and insightful comments.

As for me, No, I'm not 15, but more than twice that age, and I've have worked in the television industry for 9 years, in both production and distribution.

I also dislike the idea of waging a war against a bunch of rich corporations who can't see the future because of their own fear of lost profits. Ever been sued? My old company was, and it's NOT fun! I'm looking for ways to fix the situation, without making a pile of parasitic lawyers even richer than they already are!

I think p2p is on the right track, and I think ideas like this would let us get the content we want when we want it, and at the speed we want without all the hassle of anonymity. Remember, the internet allows the people the choice - If we are given alternatives which are unsatisfactory - like extreme ads, etc... WE REJECT them - and we always will!

You'll notice that i am advocating advertising at the current levels as on TV, NOT adware, spyware, etc... which the viewers hate as much as I do! I hate that... I'm looking for alternatives, and I think forums like this are a great place for constructive and measured criticism.

That's all. Thanks for your input

[Krell]

OK, lets try this again, .


How, do you suppose, that the networks, would release all our favorite shows for download, with the commercials bult in, that they made money off of once?

Why do you suppose, that networks, would release all our favorite shows to watch on PC, and share, so that it detracts from what they are really in the business of doing, getting larger numbers of viewing audience, to sell more expensive advertising?

How do you suppose, that the subscrition fee would justify their giving up their royalty schema, even for an old show like Gilligans Island?

Finally, who do you think would really pay for most of the crap on TV? The only thing people would REALLY want would be the entire colletion of The X-files, etc etc, and that is being sold on DVD.

[paradox99]

All good points, but let me add a little.

Generally, networks don't own the shows - they buy them from production companies - networks are just the conduit for getting the shows to the viewers. Often a network will buy an entire run of a show, such as Friends, which is always on NBC, but other times, shows can jump around - witness Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which changed networks in season 6...

Ads get placed by the networks because they have control over the medium - the broadcast signal is by definition the network's, and they do with it as they wish - fitting in ads as often as they can.

In P2P, WE the USERS control the medium. Production companies could place their own ads, and sell the space as they wish... Cutting out the middleman in the process.

Let's talk about the business end of selling ads. -- Ads get sold at a price based on the number of people viewing them - hence ads run at superbowl time are worth a lot more than ads in a rerun of "I Love Lucy". It doesn't matter who sells the ad to who - it's the number of views that counts.

I am suggesting that the shows still get released over the season, but they stay out there - and there might be ways to measure a show's popularity by the number of copies available on the network - so studios could still charge more as a show's popularity increases. They might even gather more viewers as the season progresses - people could pick up a show from the beginning, once it looks like it's going to be worth watching.

DVD copies might still exist, at the end of each season... Some people want a better than DivX copy of a show, and all the DVD extras are still often the selling points on a package like that.

If people get digital copies of shows, a certain percentage will be seen without ads - people will edit them - but the vast majority of users won't bother - they can get the show they want, when they want, and quickly and easily, because the networks are openly supporting the p2p distribution... So it's easy to go with the unmodified versions... Or so I imagine - people tend to be a little lazy when they can be!

In a nutshell, i'm suggesting that the whole "network" infrastructure would be placed in the hands of the production studios, -including- the control over the advertising.

I'm not advocating a subscription fee either - Why bother? The ads would already pay for production costs - suggesting a subscription fee-based concept simply places more power in the hands of the studios... I say make them work for the money - If a show is well made, it'll get more viewers, and make more money - from the advertising. Forget subscription - we already pay so much a month for our Net access!

At the end of the day, lame and/or cloned shows will have fewer viewers, and be able to charge that much less - Original, well produced and creative shows will get the popularity, and profits, that they deserve.

In the end, we'd end up with a much more responsive, democratic system - your view is your vote... not one controlled by network execs who go with re-used concepts instead of taking risks with their valuable "airtime"!

What do you think?

BTW: Dozens of people are reading this - very few are voting in the poll - let's see some more community opinion!!

Paradox99

[TipYourBartender]

Theoretically, you've got some good points; however, let me bring up some:

First, even if certain people don't edit out the ads, they can just be skipped over using any media player's fast-forward features. This basically has the same effect as someone with TiVo or ReplayTV who can go past the ads.

Secondly, I think this would amount to less original shows, not more, as networks would simply copycat what works, only on a much bigger scale than what currently happens right now. I think that studios will be even less likely to take chances and create something brilliant, and opt for the "safe" choice, knowing that at least some people will download it.

Third, what about cable shows that don't have ads at all? To watch HBO content, you'd have to have some sort of subscription-based system, wouldn't you? Or, if you are suggesting putting the production studios in charge, you may end up with shows that currently are adless getting ads inserted into them.

[Theinfamousone]

Good thread, but I like the one I posted months ago better

here (http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9503&highlight=future)

Also I am going to agree that there are some problems to be overcome, hoops to jump through etc. but it's the natural evolution of content distribution that an easier and cheaper way takes the place of the old way. Not to mention what I said in my thread almost identical to this that computers to me are worlds ahead of the convenience of watching stuff on TV, if networks could officially switch over to simply distributing TV shows over Bittorrent, they would save tons of money.

The trackers are easily able to tell how many people are downloading. Thus saving them millions to billions in market research. I used to work for a market research company and we charged upwards of $75 for each survey taken, usually needing atleast a few thousand to get a large enough sample to make the survey fair. Networks like NBC must need millions of surveys taken every year (I'm just guessing here) being that they have dozens of shows running and dozens of episodes of each show every season. And it would be next to impossible to leech if it distributed over Bittorrent, I mean, with the popularity of files that are downloaded, naturally, the speeds would be incredible, we could all get rid of those boxes.

Even Microsoft sees the writing on the wall, they are adding a folder in My Documents called "My TV"....

We are seeing more and more internet radio stations.

The TV industry needs to change, along with the Music industry. It's a digital world, adapt and adjust or face the consequences. The consequences being that as more and more people find Bittorrent, more TV shows will be submitted until we have our own.

Here's an idea. Is it possible that a TV studio could broadcast their TV shows over WiFi? And then all you would need was a WiFi card to be able to watch them? The TV broadcast stations could be turned into Wifi internet hubs...now that'd be cool. Basically it's like XM radio, with TV shows instead of music.

Yes obviously for HBO type stuff, you'd have to be a member to access the torrents, and to be a member you'd have to pay $10 a month or whatever.

[Muffin_Man]

i think this is a good idea and could possibly work effectively eventually. however, currently it would be a very difficult thing to do because of the cost of bandwidth and the amount of time it would take a person to download a single dvd-quality television show.

Imagine the cost of constantly seeding every possible television show. thats tens of thousands of shows, with every one needing at least one high bandwidth seeder, and anything popular most likely requiring hundreds. the cost of uploading the shows would be more than advertising revenues. sure, the people who upload could help a bit (with their 15kB/s upload limits), but with just them the amount of time it would take to download even a 250MB show would not be suitable for the average downloader. anything under a constant 100kB/s would most likely be unacceptable for this service.

also, this service places more risk directly on the producers of shows, because advertisers could (and probably would) easily just pay 'per hit' or follow some similar scheme, meaning that any show with few views would be very unprofitable. im guessing that most producers would not be very open to that idea.

oh, and the networks would have a fit.

personally, i think that a few ads in the shows would be a small price to pay if i know that i am going to get a high quality copy of the right show in a decent amount of time. provided no spyware was involved, i would use this service.