What if a sued person erases their files?

[j72883]

And dispatch the songs to a CD, so that when needed, they can be retrieved? Will the courts still proceed with lawsuits?

[cpugeniusmv]

of course! why wouldn't they?

[Krell]

you stop making threads and read some that we already have?

[jonny5]

just remember that all they have is an ip number, a file name, and a date. They aren't going to come into your house with a search warrent, because it's not a criminal offense (yet). Some bills being introduced to congress(?) would like to make it a criminal offense though.

[Mitsugi]

Originally posted by j72883
And dispatch the songs to a CD, so that when needed, they can be retrieved? Will the courts still proceed with lawsuits?
you better use bcwipe (http://www.jetico.com/index.htm#/bcwipe3.htm) or a similar program to erase your files because deleting files won't delete them (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/01/15/national1617EST0765.DTL)

[WRFan]

Originally posted by j72883
What if a sued person erases their files?
And dispatch the songs to a CD, so that when needed, they can be retrieved? Will the courts still proceed with lawsuits?

what if Moses comes and resurrects all the people Sharon killed? Will the Den Haag International Court of Justice still proceed with lawsuits? I guess not, but not because the crime is undone, but because Sharon is a VIP, and you are not. Which means, first become a Prime Minister or a President, then you can download music, kill innocent people, without fearing to be prosecuted. But as long you are just you and nothing else, I suggest you stop sharing

[Theinfamousone]

Honestly, it couldn't hurt, their accusations of sharing copyrighted files are by no means 100% accurate and why should a court just take the word of the RIAA that someone was sharing files? They're gonna need some hard evidence, I would get evidence eliminator (nice name) or some other file shredding program and get rid of the evidence.

Remember, the RIAA has won the precendence with Verizon that Verizon has to fork over anyone's name that the RIAA wants, without so much as an explanation, but it remains to be seen if the RIAA can actually convict someone of sharing copyrighted materials, it would be hard without police actually taking your computer and showing the jury that you had the copyrighted material(s). Let's wait and see what happens eh?

[.::BeatFactory::.]

Originally posted by Mitsugi
you better use bcwipe (http://www.jetico.com/index.htm#/bcwipe3.htm) or a similar program to erase your files because deleting files won't delete them (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/01/15/national1617EST0765.DTL)

...Or if I'm in a hurry (ie they're banging on my door with a "forensic computer specialist" ready to examine my HDD) I could bust out an old speaker... rip out my HDD from my case and rub the magnet on the speaker alllll over my hard drive and BLAMO! my files are gone and my HDD clean!:hole

[eivioolla]

Most P2P apps use hashing to form a digital fingerprint of a file, they only have to download each file once and then compare the fingerprint value to yours. If it matches, the file is same.

Even if the program didn't support this, what prevents them to download piece of the file to prove it is what they say it is.

[Lucian]

I'd assume the RIAA would raid before you get a chance.

Surprise raids are the way they'd prevent you from deleting your files but even if you do delete the files they have super lawyers, they can show a log and say you did it and so you did it, the end.

Its like hiring johnnie cochran, even if you are guilty, you are innocent.

[eivioolla]

Why would they raid anything when all they need to do is to download the freakin' file.

[Jelsoft]

If the court finds that you deliberately delete the file, they could charge you for destroying evidence.

[Undermind]

Originally posted by Krell
you stop making threads and read some that we already have?



now that's comedy, he totally walked into that one, LOL

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Originally posted by Mitsugi
you better use bcwipe (http://www.jetico.com/index.htm#/bcwipe3.htm) or a similar program to erase your files because deleting files won't delete them (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/01/15/national1617EST0765.DTL)

Windows Washer not good enough for ya?

[Wolfie]

Ya can always format your harddrive....

[talkinghand]

If i was really worried about a raid, i would place a heavy duty mega electro magnet next to my computer, and at the touch of two wires, (connecting the electromagnet to the power) i would render my computer totally useless, and ereased, and i would prolly accidentally destroy all electronic devices within a 5 foot radius of my computer!

[eivioolla]

Originally posted by Wolfie
Ya can always format your harddrive....

...but that won't stop anyone from retrieving the data that was on the disk before the format.

You have to rewrite over the old data repeatedly to make it impossible for professionals to recover it.

[talkinghand]

or you could just take a hammer to the disk...

[cpugeniusmv]

or you could just walk in to your weapons of mass destruction closet, and have a field day.

you all have one of those, right?

i thought so.

[Muffin_Man]

what i want to know is, why do people keep confusing criminal and civil law?

as long as this is a civil matter, no one is likely to be picking through your hdd looking for evidence of copyright infringement. in fact, the ONLY evidence the RIAA has (or will get if you keep your mouth shut) is the word of third party companies who do massive searches and sometimes make mistakes. they can take screeshots and record IP addys and download until their faces turn blue, but in the end it is still your word against theirs.

also, the RIAA is not entitled to millions of dollars in damages, no matter how much you upload. if they win, they are entitled to the amount of money their company lost (actual damages), the amount you made (nothing), and, here s the big one, their attorneys fees.

personally, i doubt that these cases would actually stand up in court, simply for lack of real evidence. hopefully, one of these 800+ people set to be sued will not only win, but also file a countersuit to recover legal fees.

http://law.freeadvice.com/intellectual_property/copyright_law/

[ThePillarOfAutumn]

anyone seen this movie ? i just rented it - a bit short (1hr20minutes) but it was a really good movie.

Now all we need is this to happen to some p2p enemies - any pshycos out thier?

jeje :shy

Yo who has my Cheetos bag? You basterd Give me back my freaken Dangerously cheesy bag NOWWWWWWWW

[rctempire]

Or you could use this program
http://www.hackology.com/programs/hdkp/ginfo.shtml

Read what this program can do.

If you download it put on the program on a floppy or cd WILL DESTROY HARDDRIVE DO NOT USE UNLESS RIAA IS PRESENT.

LOL

This is one hell of a program aint it

[cpugeniusmv]

Originally posted by cpugeniusmv
or you could just walk in to your weapons of mass destruction closet, and have a field day.

you all have one of those, right?

i thought so.

i still like this idea ^^^

[ThePillarOfAutumn]

send the old one to a friend or something

[rctempire]

this was a really old drive it was 4Gb and i have now a 12GB and 60Gb on my pc now.

No point is there

[Mitsugi]

Originally posted by .::BeatFactory::.
...Or if I'm in a hurry (ie they're banging on my door with a "forensic computer specialist" ready to examine my HDD) I could bust out an old speaker... rip out my HDD from my case and rub the magnet on the speaker alllll over my hard drive and BLAMO! my files are gone and my HDD clean!:hole
that would work, just make sure you have a strong magnet :)
Originally posted by Evil_Dweller_01
Windows Washer not good enough for ya?
never used it, and does it say it overwrites it with random bits from deleted files and multiple times that you can specify? don't think so

[whitmark]

Technology eliminates middle-men and that's all the RIAA is. They would rather just litigate than innovate and I'm sure filesharing in some form or another will be around a lot longer than they wil.

[d3ft0n3s]

back to the kewl subject on ways to jack up your hard drive.

i personalyy like the idea of mounting your HD horizontal with an equally thick brick of mixed thermite with 2 big red guarded switches on the back indepentant of the household power (cause i mean comon if their gonna do a technology raid their gonna cut the power so u cant erase anything)

whats sum other sweet ways of annihilating a HD?

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Originally posted by Mitsugi


never used it, and does it say it overwrites it with random bits from deleted files and multiple times that you can specify? don't think so

I just saved 200 megs of space on my computer by running Windows Washer...I'd say it does the deal for me

Cleans recycle bin, IE, and too much too list...

[FileHoover]

You can use something like PGPdisk (free) or Bestcrypt (pay) which allows you to allocate a certain portion of your disk to be used as an encrypted disk.

Both programs just create a big file that they then "mount" and which to you, appears as a drive letter like X: or Y: or whatever you want to call it.

This way, no unencrypted data ever hits your disk so you don't need to wipe anything (however I'd still wipe if I had the time to get other stuff like the windows registry). But you don't have to worry about the actual file data being recovered. Just turn the power off and the data is meaningless garbage to anyone that doesn't have the password.

The encrypted disks, once mounted with the proper password, are totally transparent to all your p2p apps, media players and such.

Don't think you are beyond having your computer and every other electronic device in your house confiscated as evidence. The marshalls who serve the writ are not necessarily computer savvy and will listen to whatever the agents of the plaintiff tell them to take. There are examples of this exact type of raid which I have posted many times here at ZP.

We'll see just how hardass the RIAA really is. If they don't come down hard like Nazi's, having now made their threats, then no one will be afraid of them in the future and their copyrights will be basically unenforceable. I expect things will get worse before they get better.

Anyone expecting their protests and petitions to make file sharing legal is dreaming. Are you all expecting congress to just, in a broad sweep, wipe out billions of dollars of property ownership? No, it will never happen. What I expect will happen is that this uneasy stalemate will continue for decades. FIle sharing will be unstoppable yet anyone doing it will be taking risks.

[Brycen257]

I think Muffin_Man is correct about the possible problems facing the RIAA if they try to convince a court that someone has actually been involved in file sharing activity on the internet. Assuming that someone transferred the files to a Cd or portable storage source and securely deleted all record of them from their computer, what actual proof would exist that they ever had the files ? What if they went further and deleted the particular application from their computer ie Kazaa and then denied they had ever even been a member of that program? How would the RIAA ever even prove they belonged to Kazaa, let alone that they were downloading files on the specific day the RIAA spies were watching their activity .

It would definitely be argued that the so called records produced by the RIAA were inaccurate or may have been faked or tampered with. How can the RIAA prove conclusively that they were acccurate and were never altered? Also, how could they prove that someone knowingly shared illegal files ? When you download from various persons through different programs on the interent, you never really have any idea how they obtained the original files or from where. How can they prove its an illegal copy.

Finally, even in the unlikely event the RIAA could actually prove their case, what damages would they get? There no profit or benefit to the user outside of hearing the song. The RIAA can't prove any specific damages because they haven't actually lost a thing. They still have the original song. They can speculate as to what they should get but can't actually show they lost a damn thing . I still believe the RIAA doesn't even believe they will be successful in the long run with this stragegy .Their aim was and is to scare people away from file-sharing.

[Undying Wizard NHD]

You want a program tht gets all the files of your pc for sure runs as a floopy boot disk and has names like ALL-ZEROS and simular


you would normally have to ask the makers of the drive for this. dont use one not made for the drive.

I have seen a couple of those programs around tht say they work on all drives but dont rust them.




they use these programs to fix drives in the factory. best way to get this is call your hard drive maker and ask if and how you get your hands on this and if they will email it to you.

[DeadMan]

The more I read these threads the more I feel I am living in a world of clueless idiots. Anyone who file shares is probably not wealthy enough to fight a lawsuit anyhow (Unless their mommies and daddies have the cash to fight it).

The RIAA serves you with a lawsuit the most likely event is that you pay up or face legal action. Most will pay up I absolutely guarantee it.

The RIAA do not even need to prove the file exists on your hard disk. They just need to show you were connected at such a time on a certain IP and were sharing such and such which they were able to download to verify (Or use a hash /CRC value if the program uses it).

All you people talking about erasing and wiping with various methods like you are hiding kiddie pr0n or something. You make me laugh!

Anyhow BestCrypt is an interesting app in that it has a function that lets you create two encrypted sessions within the same virtual partition. This means you could theoretically have one session with some harmless stuff like credit card info in it and if you were busted and forced to reveal the password you provide them with the password for that session. However the REAL hidden data is stored using a seperate password on the SAME encrypted virtual partition. You don't give them this of course and they have no proof that there is a seperate session. There is nothing within the data that shows there is another session with a different password.

Obfuscation along with encryption = bloody good idea.

You gave them the password. They were able to access the data which is harmless. You are off the hook (Unless they can prove you shared something bad on the net of course).

Back to downloading...

[MP3Pr0]

Anytime someone makes an accusation in court, there has to be evidence to back it up. Third-party evidence, such as logs with IP addresses and filenames, could be used as evidence. However, just because someone downloads, say, "Linkin Park - Somewhere I Belong", doesn't mean that they've downloaded that particular song. It might be a fake, or a virus, etc. Even hashes, which create a fingerprint of files, aren't sufficient evidence, because another file with totally different contents COULD produce the same hash (but this is rare). It all comes down to what the judge decides. But using logs of filenames, IP addresses, and hashes as evidence isn't enough. It's enough to prove suspicion, but that's about it. Without confiscating the computers containing the actual material in question, the plantiffs have nothing.

At best, your ISP could terminate your account for reasonable suspicion.

Then again, the law is dictated by fat pockets nowadays, so who knows?

[HolyOly]

In regards to protecting yourself from RIAA scans, using Kaza, if you need to temporarily disable sharing (checking the disable sharing w/other users check box in OptionsTools/TrafficTab), will your files show up in other peoples searches? Or will they display in searches but others just won't be able to download them. Thanks.

[j72883]

Originally posted by rctempire
Or you could use this program
http://www.hackology.com/programs/hdkp/ginfo.shtml

Read what this program can do.

If you download it put on the program on a floppy or cd WILL DESTROY HARDDRIVE DO NOT USE UNLESS RIAA IS PRESENT.

LOL

This is one hell of a program aint it

It would be nice if this Trojan could be sent to the RIAA computers, and executed. Surely someone has the tactical know-how.

[FutureIverson]

i agree with hoover, but they don't need your computer to accuse you, i bet the computer could be of better defence to you than to them. Also If the RIAA knocked on your door........... Don't openit in a civil suit the police won't bust down your door 4 deep with guns. They'll knock and maybe take a lookaround. Just hide under your bed, or something.

[FutureIverson]

i noticed none of the filed subpoenas so far were for kazaa lite. they were all for kazaa and freenet.

[mojo-ris-in]

Nope Future Kazzaa Lite uses the same Fastrack network as Kazaa so there may be several cases against Kazaa Lite users. Just because the nick says @kazaa doesn't mean they're not using K-Lite.