Microsoft vs Linux

[Theinfamousone]

The Massachusetts attorney general's office is investigating whether Microsoft tried to squash Linux in violation of the consent decree settling the company's landmark antitrust case.
Massachusetts, the only state still pursuing antitrust charges against the software maker, said in a court filing that it "is looking at several issues related to potential enforcement of the decree." These include whether Microsoft has retaliated against an unspecified computer maker for promoting Linux and has signed unlawfully restrictive agreements with Internet service providers.

The Redmond, Wash., software giant has targeted Linux, an open-source operating system, as a significant challenger to the status of its own proprietary software.

A Microsoft representative denied the allegations. "Microsoft's compliance is being closely monitored, and the consent decree is being closely enforced," spokesman Jim Desler said on Monday.

"It's a curious filing, considering that there are several layers of enforcement over Microsoft's implementation of the consent decree," Desler said. "You have strict internal enforcement. You have Microsoft board enforcement as well. Externally you have the Department of Justice and the settling states. And you have the court."

Thomas Reilly, the Massachusetts attorney general, said in an eight-page document dated July 3 and made available on Monday that other states have not been sufficiently helpful in identifying potential wrongdoing on Microsoft's part. "Given the current state of affairs, Massachusetts has begun its own efforts to identify potential decree violations," the document said, without providing any details.

The U.S. Justice Department, which was a party to the consent decree, said in its own filing last week that competitors have been complaining about prices that Microsoft plans to charge to allow access to Windows' innards. In response, the Justice Department said it remains "concerned" about the fees.

Massachusetts' appeal of U.S. Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly's final remedies directed against Microsoft is scheduled to be heard on Nov. 4.

Oh yeah, here's the source (http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-1023497.html?tag=lh)

[Lucian]

Boston happens to be the place where the whole Free Software movement was founded. Boston also happens to be the place where Napster was founded.

I am from Boston and I think it has alot to do with the culture here

alot of companies here are very anti microsoft and theres alot of linux based companies here

but you know microsoft does deserve to be punished and im not even trying to be biased here

microsoft for years has controlled and slowly ruined this industry with their monopoly and until we can go to a store and see a linux pc next to a windows pc this isnt over



Massachusetts, the only state still pursuing antitrust charges against the software maker, said in a court filing that it "is looking at several issues related to potential enforcement of the decree." These include whether Microsoft has retaliated against an unspecified computer maker for promoting Linux and has signed unlawfully restrictive agreements with Internet service providers.
"

ive been keeping a close eye on all of this because I'm part of the open source community, from what I've see, Microsoft does everything in their power to keep Linux from being preinstalled. Lindows is currently struggling with OEMs at this very moment over this, internal memos have been released and theres alot of evidence.

If there were a case over this I think Microsoft would lose, and I hope they do lose just so people can have a choice of which OS they want on their machine.

It doesnt matter if most people do choose Windows as long as people at least have the option of buying a PC preloaded with Linux.

[isus]

ms vs. linux is not a real contest. the one thing i will give to ms (*sigh* they probably copied it from apple too) is that all you have to do is pop in a cd, fill out a little bit of information, and bam, you're done. you can connect to the internet almost immediately (you still hafta fill out some minor bs), you can check your email, surf the net, play mp3's, whatever... as soon as you're done installing.

in some linux distro's, you even hafta partition your hard drive, and tell it what kind of cd drive you have, etc.

many many many linux distro's ask you to install all sorts of packages (which are the programs like msie, etc)... and also, so many linux distro's... it's not good. if everybody backed up red hat or mandrake or somebody like that, then linux would be a competitor. but right now... too many distro's, too many n00bs, etc.

besides, no matter what the courts say, ms can kill linux easily. look at how they are trying to kill apple: by stealing all the good ideas. a composited window system, etc.

[Lucian]

Linux is now easier to install than Windows. You pop in the CD and you dont fill out any info at all, it just starts up. No partition, no installing, no configuring, although you do have to configure your internet access.

Overall its easier than Windows.(if you use the right distro)

The reason Windows is still doing so well is because its on every PC, no one is even given the option if they want XP or not, its just forced at people.


No one installs Windows, its already there.

I dont think Windows can kill Linux, the reason Apple is so easy to kill is because its more expensive. Linux is free, in Europe, Asia, Africa, everyone is using Linux or switching to Linux. Its only in the US and Canada where everyone still wants to use WIndows.

Germany is running mostly Linux now, Africa is moving toward Linux, China is using Linux because they dont trust American companies, South America is using Linux because Windows is too expensive, when the world uses Linux and just the US and Canada use Windows, eventually over time I'd think Microsoft would lose its grip on OEMs and once that happens their monopoly is gone.

When enough people use Linux around the world that as many computers are running Linux as run Windows, things will change.

This is maybe 4-5 years away from happening in my opinion. The computer era is just starting in the second and third world, most of Europe, Africa and Asia are just starting to give their people computers and their people cannot afford $300 Windows.

[cheapprick]

Linux is now easier to install than Windows. You pop in the CD and you dont fill out any info at all, it just starts up. No partition, no installing, no configuring, although you do have to configure your internet access.

It sounds like you are describing Knoppix, which is only one distro of Linux. I don't believe it's even the most wide spread, but yeah I like it.

[Lucian]

Yeah I told everyone here about Knoppix, its a good example, Lindows is another example.

Its not widespread yet, and personally I'm using Redhat right now. But for a newbie who wants to try Linux and get used to how it works, Knoppix is perfect.

[Sockfulloflove]

what makes knoppix easier to use for a newbie rather than say mandrake (what i use, just recently started) or redhat?

[begoodbebad]

quote "Linux is now easier to install than Windows. You pop in the CD and you dont fill out any info at all, it just starts up. No partition, no installing, no configuring, although you do have to configure your internet access"

Configure your internet access? It should be automated. Also try playing a DVD on Linux if you're new to this. Why should it be such a pain in the ass? People don't want to learn mechanics before they get on the bus and they dont need this hassle just to install an OS. However good or bad Linux is it it will never be mainstream until it is mostly pain free experience for the regular user.

It is simple to install Mandrake ....except mandrake rolls over and dies on install if you have an optical scroll mouse, like it was some obscure and evil device.... That was 9.0 maybe they made it stagger into the 1990s for 9.1 Also doesn't recognise your hardware like XP does, I had to kid it my USB CableModem was a different one from a different maker. I use a really obscure brand...motorola...duh
My biggest annoyance with Linux is the dumb names everything has. On XP my CD copier is called Exact Audio Copy. My DivX player is called DivX player. My firewall is called a firewall. My photoeditor is called Photoshop. There is nothing wrong with clarity, it helps. Needless complexity or obscurity is the dumbest thing. On Linux everything is named in ubergeek codewords, really fucking dumb and confirms that it is designed (I use the term loosely) by unaffiliated committees with no regard for the end user. It seems to me that a lot of Linux fanboys actually prefer it to have limited appeal because it makes them feel clever and exclusive and to peer down their noses at people who just want something that is intuitive.
I will keep with XP for now and live with the few things it doesn't do so well (allocating system resources would seem to be the big one) because actually it works every time, doesn't crash and all the free software and support you could ever need is readily available. Isn't it strange how Linux distros are doing everything they can to look just like XP! Right down to the colours used. All they need is a start buton (and more decent software).

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by begoodbebad
quote "Linux is now easier to install than Windows. You pop in the CD and you dont fill out any info at all, it just starts up. No partition, no installing, no configuring, although you do have to configure your internet access"

Configure your internet access? It should be automated. Also try playing a DVD on Linux if you're new to this. Why should it be such a pain in the ass? People don't want to learn mechanics before they get on the bus and they dont need this hassle just to install an OS. However good or bad Linux is it it will never be mainstream until it is mostly pain free experience for the regular user.

It is simple to install Mandrake ....except mandrake rolls over and dies on install if you have an optical scroll mouse, like it was some obscure and evil device.... That was 9.0 maybe they made it stagger into the 1990s for 9.1 Also doesn't recognise your hardware like XP does, I had to kid it my USB CableModem was a different one from a different maker. I use a really obscure brand...motorola...duh
My biggest annoyance with Linux is the dumb names everything has. On XP my CD copier is called Exact Audio Copy. My DivX player is called DivX player. My firewall is called a firewall. My photoeditor is called Photoshop. There is nothing wrong with clarity, it helps. Needless complexity or obscurity is the dumbest thing. On Linux everything is named in ubergeek codewords, really fucking dumb and confirms that it is designed (I use the term loosely) by unaffiliated committees with no regard for the end user. It seems to me that a lot of Linux fanboys actually prefer it to have limited appeal because it makes them feel clever and exclusive and to peer down their noses at people who just want something that is intuitive.
I will keep with XP for now and live with the few things it doesn't do so well (allocating system resources would seem to be the big one) because actually it works every time, doesn't crash and all the free software and support you could ever need is readily available. Isn't it strange how Linux distros are doing everything they can to look just like XP! Right down to the colours used. All they need is a start buton (and more decent software).

VideoLan plays DVD's on Linux....don't bother blaming any coders or OS packagers for it. The lame ass MPAA bitched an moaned along with a load of others (MS comes to mind) about Linux being opensource and how if the decryption shit built into such things as powerDVD were on such a system you could 'crack' the DVD and remove it's contents. Fair use is nothing to these bastards so they fought all the way to keep a simple DVD player off Linux.

It makes little sense considering the sheer volume of DVD decrypters out there for all platforms...

Now I will agree...certain parts of certain distros drive me insane. But the system itself is pretty stable on even the oldest of hardware.

And the thing you have to remember is Linux isn't driven by ONE 'company' it's created and worked on by a hell of a lot of people...be amazed at the fact that it even runs at all considering how many actually worked on it from every corner of the globe.

Knoppix boots off CD...no HD is needed and you copy/format nothing....it's sorta like a 'real' copy of Linux you don't have to install to check out. As opposed to distros that run off FAT and run along side windows. IE PhatLinux....

Btw, Lindows...really blew IMHO...

[begoodbebad]

The reason Windows is still doing so well is because its on every PC, no one is even given the option if they want XP or not, its just forced at people.


No one installs Windows, its already there.


I dont think Windows can kill Linux, the reason Apple is so easy to kill is because its more expensive. Linux is free, in Europe, Asia, Africa, everyone is using Linux or switching to Linux. Its only in the US and Canada where everyone still wants to use WIndows.

Germany is running mostly Linux now, Africa is moving toward Linux, China is using Linux because they dont trust American companies, South America is using Linux because Windows is too expensive, when the world uses Linux and just the US and Canada use Windows, eventually over time I'd think Microsoft would lose its grip on OEMs and once that happens their monopoly is gone.

When enough people use Linux around the world that as many computers are running Linux as run Windows, things will change.

This is maybe 4-5 years away from happening in my opinion. The computer era is just starting in the second and third world, most of Europe, Africa and Asia are just starting to give their people computers and their people cannot afford $300 Windows. [/B]


It just isn't true that everyone is switching to linux. Hardly anyone uses it but those who do are evangelical. And make broad sweeping statements which are not true! see above! Linux is used by a small vocal minority who have the expertise and the motivation to get more involved with their machines.

Lots of people choose XP/Win2000 and even pay for it. There are plenty of people making plenty of money selling this stuff even after we all got our copy for free....thats a lot of MS software sold to people who want it.

Germany is mostly Linux??????? one major city switched to Linux. As for China isn't Bill Gates biggest problem not Linux but the fact the Chinese use his OS but won't pay!?
In countries where society is not so orderly people just don't need to switch to Linux, they can safely use pirate software. Who is going to stop them? . Even somewhere like Britain 26% of business software is illegal. Shit who needs a free OS...its all free already.

Lucian almost everything you say is not true. Give it up. You come across like an evangelical religionist (you even make a prophesy!) and we all know about them.

[strestout1]

i agree with begoodbebad...as pretty as OSX looks (i had my XP modded to look like it for a long time) i would never pay for it...windows is great for anyone just starting out with computers but i think linux is definitely ready for the desktop. I switched to RH9 last week and my wife really hasn't noticed any difference (except the whole no BSOD thing).

[Theinfamousone]

Does anyone have a good Linux screen shot? I've never used it, but I'd like to see what the GUI looks like.

[CCSDUDE]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
Does anyone have a good Linux screen shot? I've never used it, but I'd like to see what the GUI looks like.

I'll take one for you....it all depends on themes though so one may look different from another. Same as with XP...lol

And IMHO it actually looks better then XP...pretty much every menu is transparent...even stuff within programs. And having like 30 transparent windows open doesn't create the same BS you get with XP where some sorta flash from 'normal' to transparent.

Anyway I'll post one in a bit...

[Sockfulloflove]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
Does anyone have a good Linux screen shot? I've never used it, but I'd like to see what the GUI looks like.

here are some screen shots of linux mandrake 9.1 (what i run):

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/fscreenshots.php3

[isamoor]

If ya really want a variety of Screenshots of linux desktops, you should go over to:

www.justlinux.com


It's a good linux forum, and they have one huge thread that is nothing but people showing off screenshots. It should be listed on the first page near the middle, as the biggest thread period.

I recommend giving it a shot.

Later,

Isamoor

[fernandez]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
Does anyone have a good Linux screen shot? I've never used it, but I'd like to see what the GUI looks like.

Two of the most widely used desktop environment
http://www.kde.org
http://www.gnome.org

Some light-weight environments
http://www.waimea.org (it's currently down, check later)
http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/

This one is a little weird, looks nice, but I think it's impractical
http://www.enlightenment.org/pages/shots.html

[Lucian]

I will take a few screenshots of my desktop for you and post it here, how about that?

[Theinfamousone]

Originally posted by fernandez
Two of the most widely used desktop environment
http://www.kde.org
http://www.gnome.org

Some light-weight environments
http://www.waimea.org (it's currently down, check later)
http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/

This one is a little weird, looks nice, but I think it's impractical
http://www.enlightenment.org/pages/shots.html

LOL, so when you say "environments", what does that mean exactly? Is that like a distro?

[fernandez]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
LOL, so when you say "environments", what does that mean exactly? Is that like a distro?

Environment means which GUI type you use, it doesn't depend on the distro.
For example you could be using Mandrake (a distro) with either Gnome, KDE, Fluxbox (all various desktop environments). It's also possible to install several environments and simply switch between them, that's what I do usually.

[Theinfamousone]

Hmm, so what's the best distro and best environment? Obviously I'm a bit of a newbie...

Actually here's a better question what is the differences between the popular distros and environments?

[isamoor]

Distrowatch is a good site to feel out the different distros. In fact, they even have a page just describing the different top distros:

http://www.distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major


For someone just wanting to try linux out, I still recommend Knoppix.

You can just download and burn a knoppix iso, stick it in you cdrom drive and reboot. It should load all the way into KDE (my favorite enviroment) so you can play around with things directly off of the cd. It even has a small script to install it to the hard drive if you like it.

Mandrake is generally a safe bet for newbies. If you go that way, don't overlook the urpmi command, and definatly go get info on the Penguin Liberation Front.

Hope that helps,

Isamoor

[jj_frap]

The techie crowd tend to be anarcho-socialist or anarcho-capitalist while MA is very Old Left.

[beta3]

If you guys want Ill write a guide for install debian linux because all others except for slack are unworthy. Desktop Environments are groups of applications that run on X(the graphical display server). Im not too happy with Zeropaid because they don't use phpBB the opensource forum. However for the newbie try red hat or knoppix(prefered) but red hat is more likely easier to install. Even though knoppix runs off the cd you can have it hdinstall to hard disc. If you switch to linux, do it fully. Do not keep win32 around. You will see the full potential of linux. and if you bothered by low amounts of games well your wrong. UT2003, Quake3, frozen-bubble run on it. I d like to keep in touch with you guys. gimme an email at dan@mirrorlynx.com, and my site is http://mirrorlynx.com , Im looking for some linux relevant news if you can give it please do. Email me and Ill help you out or get in touch with you on irc.

[isamoor]

There's a few linux supporters hanging around here. I wouldn't say Zeropaid is against open source or anything.

It's just that a lot of the p2p clients are only for windows. Makes for a slanted crowd.

There are good p2p apps for linux, just not as many as windows.

Those of us on linux miss out on winMX (even the name defies us), MP2P (blubster) and shareaza. Although I can piece back together shareaza easily. I actually ran the bitTorrent command line client for linux the other day. I had to stop it because it ran away with all my download bandwidth. Not something I'm used to in filesharing.


And I don't actually boot into windows much. (haven't this month I don't think) But I do keep it around for the games. Advanced people could work with WineX, or newbies could just pay them and get help.

Enough rambling,

Later,

Isamoor

[strestout1]

if you're on linux all you need is XMule...recently i've tried giFT (http://gift.sourceforge.net) which is really good, with fast xfer speeds, though it's probably not for noobs...btw i'm on RH9 with Gnome...and hey if you need to use Kazaa just get Wine and rune the windows version.

[NDGAARONDI]

Sounds to me Linux would win the case. Linux is growing fast outside of North America you know ;)

[Power Penguin]

Originally posted by NDGAARONDI
Sounds to me Linux would win the case. Linux is growing fast outside of North America you know ;)

I've tried Windows and Red Hat 9, and Windows is far better.

You need a computing degree to install apps. Apps don't have proper documentation usually, to make up for this. And most of the free apps suck big time.

Red Hat is bugged to hell. Whether Windows is $100 dollars better than Red Hat, well you'll have to make your own mind up.

Redmond should build DVD support into XP and release it free instead of being tight asses and waiting untill 2005.

[zab]

Originally posted by Power Penguin
I've tried Windows and Red Hat 9, and Windows is far better.


For what? playing games? wasting your time?


You need a computing degree to install apps.

No, you need to lay off the attitude and read, read, and ah.. yeah, read.


Red Hat is bugged to hell.

and that is a statement by someone who has used redhat for how long? For what? If someone who uses debian or slackware told me that redhat is buggered I'd actually bother challenging them, but a windoze user doesn't deserve wasting of breath.

Linux does not need and should not be idiot-friendly.

[Power Penguin]

Originally posted by zab
For what? playing games? wasting your time?



No, you need to lay off the attitude and read, read, and ah.. yeah, read.



and that is a statement by someone who has used redhat for how long? For what? If someone who uses debian or slackware told me that redhat is buggered I'd actually bother challenging them, but a windoze user doesn't deserve wasting of breath.

Linux does not need and should not be idiot-friendly.

So what do you DO on Linux? Cure cancer?

I haven't got an attitude. I got £80 and I know where it's going - on Windows XP home so this sh*t can get uninstallled.

e.g. Evolution is buggged.

Red Hat Network Alert is bugged.

It took 3 days to get my modem working.

Once the installer trapped my CD inside the drive.

You have to install about 5 apps to get Bittorrent working.

Kazaa doesn't work.

Mozilla is ugly and bugged.

Programs don't come with an installer.

Programs don't come with an uniinstaller.

Konsole - is like DOS which windows gave up with the launch of XP. Who gives a shit about CD DIR and MV? Crap and slow.

Make up your own minds try it. It's free after all. When's the last time you got anything for free the was worth using?!

[Psilaxs]

Originally posted by zab
For what? playing games? wasting your time?



No, you need to lay off the attitude and read, read, and ah.. yeah, read.



and that is a statement by someone who has used redhat for how long? For what? If someone who uses debian or slackware told me that redhat is buggered I'd actually bother challenging them, but a windoze user doesn't deserve wasting of breath.

Linux does not need and should not be idiot-friendly.


He does not have an attitude, you brought up an old thread to just argue with someone?

He made some good points, running linux is NOT easy, downlaod your graphics card driver, and it isn't as simple as double clicking and telling it where to install.

Being user friendly has nothing to do with idiot proofing.
By your estimation, anything that contains even a slight resemblance to ergonomics or ease of use is for idiots.

Thank you for showing your "intelligence".

[Power Penguin]

Well said!

Being easy to use is not the same as being a product for idots.

Does anyone really want to face the situation of having to put in 6 hours of work and download 6 programs for Bittorrent? This is just a waste of my time.

I have £5 more to save and I can get myself a lovely copy of Windows XP Home edition. Ahh bliss.

Now if only Microsoft would reduce the price of Visual Studio.

[PowerMan57two]

Microsoft

[EndGame]

It just isn't true that everyone is switching to linux. Hardly anyone uses it but those who do are evangelical. And make broad sweeping statements which are not true! see above! Linux is used by a small vocal minority who have the expertise and the motivation to get more involved with their machines.

Its amazing how ignorant windows users are!!! Its completely amazing. They asume that because someone uses linux then they are just 'vocal' and have no idea what they are talking about. Your above statment right there prooves that windows users not linux users are very vocal. Why I don't know. But millions of linux users themselves can't be wrong if they say it works fine compared to the billions of windows users who complain and bitch constantly because of their win box keeps crashing.

Yes plenty of people use linux. Infact home users use linux. The people who just want to use there machine use linux. Not just sit there an have to slave though every problem that comes along with windows.

e.g. dll errors, constant crashing, bad security etc......

you have to be a geek to fix the problems with windows which is simply not true with linux. what you have mentioned is just FUD!

Lots of people choose XP/Win2000 and even pay for it. There are plenty of people making plenty of money selling this stuff even after we all got our copy for free....thats a lot of MS software sold to people who want it.

agreed. But believe it or not.. Not many people 'pirate' windows OS'es and those that do usualy end up going through even more instability and security problems due to the 'hacks.' Again you have to be ageek to fix those kinda problems!

Germany is mostly Linux??????? one major city switched to Linux.
Germany, china, russia. Gasp there is more than one company?

Yes believe it or not ALOT of people use linux.!


As for China isn't Bill Gates biggest problem not Linux but the fact the Chinese use his OS but won't pay!?

No actualy. His problem is that he is already loosing some of the market in that reagon. People like you keep mentioning that every chines person is some sort of a uber pirate.


In countries where society is not so orderly people just don't need to switch to Linux, they can safely use pirate software. Who is going to stop them? . Even somewhere like Britain 26% of business software is illegal. Shit who needs a free OS...its all free already.

Where are the stats for these??? and if 26% are using 'pirated copies' then that leaves 74% using linux. Not bad I say.


Lucian almost everything you say is not true. Give it up. You come across like an evangelical religionist (you even make a prophesy!) and we all know about them.

I don't know what poor Lucian did to you, that last statment is a personal attack , then you use a blanket statment against all linux users. Maby some linux users are vocal and for good reason. There is a lot of FUD and missunderstanding when it comes to linux. The same FUD that you spout. and its intersting that you say that Linux users are 'making a prophesy' when its you thats spouting such rhetoric.

================================================== =============

Windows/03

Legal / Miscellaneous embarassments to Micro$oft:
- Steve Ballmer sells 1.2 billion in M$ Stocks
- Bill Gates shows up at White House with no ID and needs to be searched
- Microsoft admits WMP spies and reports on your music and video usage
- MS department in London discovered to be using Linux for internet services
- One day after $90 million contract signed between MS & Homeland Security, biggest bug ever found
- Two weeks later another one affecting Windows 2003 - Which Homeland Security uses
- Microsoft says that 75% of WinXP installations crash unless installed by an "authorized installer"
- Microsoft hires group to study open source software
- Swedish Microsoft branch uses a Mac in its commercial
- Windows worm knocks out service 911 emergeny telephone service in Bellevue
- Worm disabled several Windows powered ATM machines
- Microsoft called "Threat to national security" in 2 reports
- Microsoft announced a Big-Brother system for MSN chat rooms
- Microsoft virus damages train signals in Florida
- Microsoft employee fired for posting photo on his site of a G5 being delivered to a MS print shop
- Employee of a MS-partnered tech firm fired for participating in report explaining why MS sucks
- Microsoft's Linux bashing backfires - people see that Linux must be better
- Microsoft Urges Users Not to Use Windows on the Internet
- Microsoft sued over code used in their web movie technology
- MSN software labels Lindows emails as spam
- Microsoft decides to use Linux to protect its servers
- IE security bugs allow hackers to steal source code for Half-Life 2 video game
- 3 issues of backwards incompatibility found in new Office 2003
- After years of denying being a competitor, MS makes a Linux survey to see what people like about it
- Microsoft forgot to renew hotmail.co.uk domain for England, despite several warnings ahead of time
- MS announces plans for creating BIOS code for PCs; Billy Gates claims he knows nothing about it
- Micro$oft wins trademark lawsuit against Lindows in Europe
- One week later is sued by Mythic Entertainment on same exact charges

Microsoft fined:
- $1,000,000,000 total to several universities for stealing code
- $521,000,000 to Eolas Techonologies company for patent infringement
- $23,000,000 to Be, Inc
- $75,000,000 to AOL Time Warner
- $62,000,000 for stealing code used in Netmeeting
- $967,000 to Massachusetts in antitrust settlements
- unknown sum to InterTrust for DRM patent infringement

Governments who tell Microsoft to fuck away:
- Munich, Germany
- Berlin, Germany
- Vienna, Austria
- India
- China
- Japan
- South Korea
- Vietnam
- Brazil
- Thailand
- Austin, Texas, USA
- The US Army
- England
- Israel

Business losses for Microsoft:
- Guitar company owner throws out M$ and says he couldn't be happier
- Lycoris creates Linux OS for Tablet PC (previously only supported Windows)
- HP announces they will sell pre-installed Linux computers
- British Health Services dumps Microsoft
- European SAP cuts on deals with Microsoft
- Ford moves to Linux
- Verisign moves to Linux

Anti-trust matters:
- European Union begins major investigation of Microsoft Windows Media Player monopoly
- RealNetworks joins lawsuits against Windows Media Player monopoly.

Security Issues
- 2 security breaches discovered in M$ Passport
- EU Sues M$ once again
- Gartner Group advices businesses not to use Passport
- Time it takes to crack Windows passwords reduced to 13.6 seconds from 1 min 40 sec
- 19 Internet Explorer security bugs discovered (most remain unpatched)
- 1 patch released to fix IE bug creates a new hole in the browser!
- 2 patches released to fix IE bugs don't fix problem, just create more bloat
- 13 security bugs discovered in misc Windows services (RPC, Workstation, etc)
- 2 security bugs in DirectX discovered
- 1 security bug in Windows Update discovered
- 1 Major Vulnerability Found In Windows Messenger
- Major flaw found in MS Exchange, allowing users to access other users' accounts
- 2 security flaws found in Microsoft Frontpage Server Extensions Web Publishing tool
- Security bug found in Microsoft's digital certificates system
- 3 security issues found in the new MS Office

Viruses/Worms
- MSBlaster.a
- MSBlaster.b
- MSBlaster.c
- Welchia
- Sobig.a
- Sobig.b
- Sobig.c
- Sobig.d
- Sobig.e
- Sobig.f
- Code-Red
- Quaters
- QHosts
- Sober.a
- Sober.b
- Sober.c
- Slammer (the one that knocked out 911 service)
- Yaha-Y
- Jitux
- Nachi (the one that infected ATM machines)
- Too many more to count, but the above were the biggest

And the award for funniest/saddest Microsoft event of the year goes to:
3rd Place: Microsoft announces plans for Antivirus software
2nd Place: Microsoft has nerve to accuse Sun of "unfair competition"
First Place:
The decade old "If Microsoft Made Cars..." joke becomes true.
Microsoft announces plans to "have the Windows OS in every car on Earth"
Reports arise of problems with the BMW 7 Series car which runs the Windows for Cars OS:
- CD player got fucked up
- Engine died
- Car died on side of the road
Great job, Bill!

[EndGame]

Well said!

Being easy to use is not the same as being a product for idots.

Does anyone really want to face the situation of having to put in 6 hours of work and download 6 programs for Bittorrent? This is just a waste of my time.

I have £5 more to save and I can get myself a lovely copy of Windows XP Home edition. Ahh bliss.

Now if only Microsoft would reduce the price of Visual Studio.

What you couldn't go to the local store and pick up SuSE?

i did. and look ma no virii!

[EndGame]

M$ vs Linux. No competition.

Linux vs MacOSX, BSD however. Now your talking!

FreeBSD is a really good OS that has a teriffic port system.

[killswitch1968]

Linux does not need and should not be idiot-friendly.

And that is why it hasn't gained acceptance on desktops. People don't give a shit about partitions and drives. They don't want to think when they use their computer. They want to put in a CD and have it install, they want plug and play drivers, they want software to just work without configuring.

Linux doesn't NEED to be idiot friendly, but don't expect it to gain market share when 90% of desktop users are idiots.

As terrible and 'monopolistic' as Microsoft is, making a better product for less will overthrow them. That's what happened on the server and database markets. It's this sort of attitude (and lack of marketing) that prevents them from launching onto the desktop.

[EndGame]

So what do you DO on Linux? Cure cancer?p

Actualy, some of the leading medical work is done in linux. :D


I haven't got an attitude. I got £80 and I know where it's going - on Windows XP home so this sh*t can get uninstallled.

???? 'apt-get' :p

e.g. Evolution is buggged.

Don't use evolution I use mozilla mail. Pluse the 100's of other mail programs that come with Linux.

Red Hat Network Alert is bugged.

Or it could be you who didn't follow the dirctions right.

It took 3 days to get my modem working.

took me 5 minutes. Are you sure your not reading the directions right?

Once the installer trapped my CD inside the drive.

That happend with me in windows xp!

You have to install about 5 apps to get Bittorrent working.

Don't use Bittorrant, quite happy with amule or the hundreds of other p2p apps avilable for linux.

Kazaa doesn't work.

Yes it does! use wine!

Mozilla is ugly and bugged.

Not half as much as IE though. I know a rusted bucket that has less holes than IE!


Programs don't come with an installer.

yes they do! 'apt-get' +synaptic


Programs don't come with an uniinstaller.

see above!

Konsole - is like DOS which windows gave up with the launch of XP. Who gives a shit about CD DIR and MV? Crap and slow.

Who gives a shit about a fisher price, fugly ass GUI?

some people like the command line for some things.

Make up your own minds try it. It's free after all. When's the last time you got anything for free the was worth using?!

Linux! Its free and its worth using! Infact I don't mind donating money to their projects.

[EndGame]

And that is why it hasn't gained acceptance on desktops. People don't give a shit about partitions and drives. They don't want to think when they use their computer. They want to put in a CD and have it install, they want plug and play drivers, they want software to just work without configuring.
[quote]

I totaly agree. They don't want to worry about dll errors, currupt installs, spyware, trollware, bad registry entries and a multitude of other problems. They just want things to work and the current Linux distros do do this.

[quote]Linux doesn't NEED to be idiot friendly, but don't expect it to gain market share when 90% of desktop users are idiots.

I agree that there are ALOT of illiterate desktop users. But 90% are still discuvering link or they hate computers completely because of what windows does to them.

As terrible and 'monopolistic' as Microsoft is, making a better product for less will overthrow them. That's what happened on the server and database markets. It's this sort of attitude (and lack of marketing) that prevents them from launching onto the desktop.

attitude or not I see its already happening. We just need longwhore to be released then that will be the last stake in the coffin. time will do the rest :)

[Ken17625]

Ease of use, depends on the person really.

I personally believe though, that having an exclusive windows user, experience Linux, is tough (yeah yeah, vice versa too).

This is more about a type of "culture shock" so to speak, instead of a technical problem.

You just get used to using a certain product, and therefore have a certain mindset (that whole statement, of course, is not universally true. I'm sure there are some who can use both really well).

One thing troubles me. As far as hardware compatibility, Linux does NOT have an advantage over Windows.

Since Windows is more popular among the "common user", obviously the hardware manufacturer will worry about it's product functioning with Windows (and the Mac), before (if at all), thinking about Linux.

[endersgame21]

what makes knoppix easier to use for a newbie rather than say mandrake (what i use, just recently started) or redhat?
Well if you are trying linux out you can boot knoppix directly off a cd without filling out anything or installing anything and its ready to go. If you boot it off the cd you are using it kind of like a demo...obviously you can't write to the harddrive or anything but its real easy at that point to just intsall knoppix to your harddrive.